Tesla Mentioned in the Presidential Debate

Tesla Mentioned in the Presidential Debate

Governor Romney mentioned Tesla in a negative tone tonight in order to discredit this Administration's interest in alternative energy. If he becomes President, will that mean that federal tax credits, and the DOE loan will be called to a halt?

stephen.kamichik | 2012年10月3日

I think the DOE loan is irreversible since Elon drew down the full amount. Tesla is going to start paying it back soon (see Elon's blog). | 2012年10月3日

Federal txa credits started under Bush. Tesla will be profitable & paying on the loan by January. Clearly Romney is clueless when it comes to good business models (his expertise is vulture capitalism)

Sudre_ | 2012年10月3日

Tesla is safe on the DOE loan program. About the only thing that could happen is strict regulation changes to force a quicker pay back. I think Elon is all for pay it back as fast as possible anyway.

Tax Credit.... GONE on "day 1" or as soon as he can get rid of it. Not to ruin Tesla or the EV, just to save money.

modelsboy | 2012年10月3日

Mr. Romney and the Tea people are insulting Tesla enthuthiastic customers who support the GOP. They rather have Chinese government supporting Chinese companies like Coda and the likes than the Federal loan that Tesla got to create the best car in the market (not just the best electric car, but the best car, period). I see that they put profit before the country. Anyway, this is not a political forum, I am just not happy with their view on Tesla Motors.

suegie | 2012年10月3日

Yeah, didn't mean to make a political thing, but I wondered whether a change in the administration could have a very drastic effect on Tesla and its ability to get profitable quickly?

TikiMan | 2012年10月3日

I deliberately up'ed my P to a Sig (when I was given the opertunity), in fear of losing my federal tax credit, with the possibility of a pro-oil conserative in the White House next year.

pilotSteve | 2012年10月3日

@Sudre_ and modelsboy - +1 your comments. Cheap shot ("talking point") that denigrates loan programs such as DOE (I much prefer Elon's explanation in his recent post about what that program was intended to due, that Tesla has been successful in achieving those objectives and that that repaying the loan early as requested and Tesla will do either (a) allows the capital be either be recycled into another program or (b) goes back into the infinite federal black hole.

Overall (not to get political) it %#$ me off that candidates pick and choose their own brand of 'nasty' examples just to make their respective constituents jump.

"vote all the bastards out"!

Brian H | 2012年10月3日

Success answers all; if TM is cash flow positive next month, it is almost "home free". Interestingly, TM wouldn't have failed without the loan, but the follow-on cars would likely have been delayed.

It is also significant that none of the other makers, with or without bail-outs or "bail-ins", have yet offered more than 100-mi. range. The proof of the pudding is in the eating/driving.

STxTesla | 2012年10月4日

The DOE loan will be payed back in full and there will be a new avenue to decrease America's dependence on foreign oil.

Romney made a good point, but he grouped the success stories with the failures.

Teoatawki | 2012年10月4日

Don't forget that it's not a grant, it's a LOAN. The money goes back into the government coffers to be squandered somewhere else, not here.

evanstumpges | 2012年10月4日

I don't think Romney picked the right company by using Tesla to illustrate his point. Of all the "green" energy companies he could have picked, Tesla is probably far and away the most successful and the closest to no longer needing government support to develop revolutionary new technology!

The other thing that turned me off about Romney was when he said he "likes coal". To me, this is a very backwards thinking statement for the 21st century. Coal may be inevitable for some time to come, but that doesn't mean its something we should "like".

I think Romney clearly held the upper hand throughout last night's debate but his position on green energy and sustainability is disheartening after having a president who has strongly supported this stuff in the past four years...

ViewAskew | 2012年10月4日

Strictly speaking on the topic. +1 @ TikiMan, I did the same. I'd place a decent size wager that if Rom's is in office the tax credit will vanish. (as SOON as he can make it happen) Don't really care nor do I think this is the place for politcal conversations. I do feel that if you're a P reservation holder outside of say 2700 - 3000, you may have cause for concern.

The loans are just that, LOANS. It's not as if whatever administration that takes over will say, "Oh no, you go ahead and keep that money." If there is a need for future loans, which I doubt, Tesla may have problems.

mrspaghetti | 2012年10月4日

For those who were pissed off at anything said in the debate:

- that's what you get for watching the debate. Politics is never uplifting, it only pisses people off - largely about things they have no control over anyway.

Unless you live in one of a handful of states that could truly go either way, your vote also doesn't matter. Being in TX, I can be peacefully apathetic because I know all my state's electoral votes will go to Romney. Whether I like him (I don't) or Obama (I don't), the die is cast already. And as of January 1st, I also already know we'll have a douchebag in the white house, whoever wins.

BYT | 2012年10月4日

TikiMan, "I deliberately up'ed my P to a Sig (when I was given the opportunity), in fear of losing my federal tax credit, with the possibility of a pro-oil conservative in the White House next year." AMEN! I did the same for the same reason (and I was a rather low P number to start). I also did it because I found that I was going to load up my Model S with most of all the features that were standard in the Signature anyway, minus the parcel shelf that is. I also like the Signature badge for my own selfish reasons... :)

Mitt the Twitt is digging his own grave and I just hope American's see through the lies and lack of sound policy sharing. I am a part of the Middle Class, I am not rich. If I was, I still wouldn't vote for that guy! Yes, the current administration isn't perfect, but the alternative would be devastating, IMHO.

jbunn | 2012年10月4日

Regarding the first 3000 res holders and the tax break, I'm not quite that worried. Congress won't start up until right after new years, and the inauguration around the 20th. So even if Congress decided to take it up immediatly, and drop a finished bill on Jan 20th, usualy tax changes don't take change immediatly. I think realisticly if they tried to immediatly kill it, at the earliest I think it will be in place until July, possibly the entire tax year. But that's just a guess on my part,

I'd really hate to see pro-renewable solar, wind and transportation policies be rolled back. Tesla becomes more competitive with conventional autos with the tax break. The industry is just getting started and making progress. It's too early to cut off support right when it's getting on price parity with conventional tech.

weeandthewads | 2012年10月4日

He called all of us losers.

BYT | 2012年10月4日, LOL, for some reason I have an easier time of someone pointing the finger at me and calling me a loser. I like to say, when you point a finger there are always 3 more pointed back at you!, there is also in California the Clean Air Discount, for $2,500 which I also hope I can tap into before it expires. Which is very soon if it hasn't already.

jbunn | 2012年10月4日

@BYT, I hope you can as well. We don't have that here, but we do have a no-sales tax provision in this state. That would be about the same amount as the Clean Air Discount.

ramymora | 2012年10月4日

Let's all pitch in and send Gov Romney a new Tesla Model S asap. I think this will change his views on how real this industry can be when you have great management and teams in place - like any other industry.

BYT | 2012年10月4日, with taxes being around 9.25% here, I would much rather have the no sales tax option! Lucky guy!! :)

Captain_Zap | 2012年10月4日

I called the Romney campaign and gave them an earful about Romneys ignorant insinuations regarding Tesla.

mrspaghetti | 2012年10月4日


See Brian H's comment above - "Success answers all"

Tesla will succeed and that will make all its naysayers look and feel like asses far more than any words we can say.

Sudre_ | 2012年10月4日

Honestly a President is the mouth piece for our country. Their policies only go as far as congress lets them. Voting for a President is more about his/her ability to communicate which Romney is failing to do. While Obama is not free of miscommunication it seems weekly Romney is saying something that he shouldn't. They really need to get him polished before the next debate.

All the promises on both side are just high in the sky things that congress may or may not let them get away with.

cosmomusic | 2012年10月4日

It's easy to get riled up about comments by an obvious ignorant politician who knows nothing of what he speaks. Tesla is obviously not a failure, but is in fact, an American success story.

What would this country and the world be without subsidies by the US Government to the NIH, aveation, space exploration,military, agriculture, high tech, oil companies and yes,tax credits to vulture-preneurs like Romney and BAINS. What about the tax shelters for investing and storing money offshore in places like the Bahamas, Caymans and Switzerland instead of creating jobs here in our beloved country... NEED I SAY MORE.

Captain_Zap | 2012年10月4日
prash.saka | 2012年10月4日

In the grand scheme of things, is it really such a big deal that Romney included Tesla in the other companies that didn't do well? As much irritated I am about this, I might let this slip. I am absolutely confident that future will be bright for Tesla. When the time comes, and Tesla is a roaring success, I am sure Romney will deny everything.

There is a saying in Telugu that literally translates to "The gossiping donkey ruined it for the eating donkey". It essentially means that those who complain ruin it for those who are set on achieving something. It is important that Tesla's success, and not words, show what its worth is. Just you wait Mitt.

By the way, the bigger issues here are 1. How to get politicians accountable for what they say, especially when trying to get elected. 2. How can we, the people, work together with others, especially those whose views don't match ours. 3. How to make politicians work together with others rather than just complaining.

Romney will complain about everything Obama touches. And Obama will complain about everything Romney said. In the middle, we are getting royally s%^&@#d.

~ Prash.

BYT | 2012年10月4日

Just elect my Dictator and I'll fix everything Prash! ;)

roseland67 | 2012年10月4日


That is NOT what he said, and
who knows, he may yet prove to be correct.

We all hope and believe that he is not
and have invested accordingly.
If/when, somewhere in the near future,
Tesla Motors proves itself to be a $ succesful company,
I would expect that, if asked, Romney would
say, "I was wrong about Tesla, they are not a loser company".

(although I wouldn't hold my breath).

Vawlkus | 2012年10月5日

A politician admitting wrong? Dude, what are you smoking and where can I get some?

As a Canadian, it really won't matter much to me who gets elected, but I will say that thus far Rommey's acting like an ass and Obama isn't. For that alone I'd like to see Obama win just so Rommey fails.

sagebrushnw | 2012年10月5日

@ Vawlkus

Romney, not Rommey.

jat | 2012年10月5日

Regarding the question of what would removal of the tax credits do to the EV industry, and I think the answer is that it would gut it. Model S sales would be hurt some but probably not too bad since the car is already so expensive, but LEAF/Volt/etc sales would go to nearly zero.

Sudre_ | 2012年10月5日

I agree with you jat but I think that is the whole point non-EV enthusiasts are making. If the car is not going to be purchased without the credit then is it worth the credit?
Manufacturers should make a car people want like Tesla has.

Vawlkus | 2012年10月5日

If he's gonna call Tesla "Tester" then I'm calling him Rommy. He's not worth the effort to move my finger from m to n for the fourth letter.

Vawlkus | 2012年10月5日

Dammit, the rest of reply got cut -.-
I do agree that if the rebate gets cut it will hurt the Leaf and Volt but not the Model S. What worries me is that without the rebate Tesla may have a harder time hitting its price point for Gen III.

Brian H | 2012年10月5日

Obama got lucky with TM. Romney needs to know more about the specifics of TM, and recognize the difference an "Elon" makes.

mrspaghetti | 2012年10月5日

@Sudre_ +1

Brian H | 2012年10月5日

Haven't installed Lazarus yet? Heh. Serves you right! >:p

Crow | 2012年10月5日

Will someone tell Romney to shut the f up? He did it again today only this time he got the name right. Dude lost my vote that is for sure. Idiot.

CIAOPEC | 2012年10月5日

Ah yes, the great job creator Mitt Romney... maybe offshore jobs, hmm

using his logic we should abolish the SBA loan programs too, that would be a great way to promote job creation. I'm a small business owner and without SBA i could never have expanded my practice...

Banks in this country will not lend money (even money they receive basically free) to anyone, even doctors!

There is absolutely no difference in offering loans through an SBA program and the fed using stimulus money to promote larger startup ventures.

Ok, apologize for the politico comment.

Mitt is also against raising the CAFE standards. His drill baby drill approach without promoting efficiency doesn't make sense either.

Brian H | 2012年10月5日

Efficiency promotes itself. An efficient process or product is, by definition, able to achieve its purpose cheaper than alternatives. Anyone who knows of it is in a position to benefit and profit from it.

Captain_Zap | 2012年10月5日

Not always, Brian. Often an excellent investment in the future is rejected for the sake of good looking numbers for the next quarter or year.

Brian H | 2012年10月5日

Then the opportunity is there (for someone else) a little while later. I'm not talking about individual judgment calls, but whether efficiencies get realized without some gubmint dept saying, "Lookie here!"

jbunn | 2012年10月5日

Not allways. The term "Betamaxed" comes to mind.

walla2 | 2012年10月5日

Romney probably won't release his taxes because he took the $7500 rebate on a Sig Performance.

sagebrushnw | 2012年10月5日

@ walla2

Romney did release his taxes. Guess you weren't watching/listening. I'm sure he would enjoy a Sig Performance. I would!

sagebrushnw | 2012年10月5日
jbunn | 2012年10月5日

Wow. I wish I could only pay 13% tax.

Also interesting that Romney doesn't seem to have insurance. Looks like he's self insured and just paying cash out of pocket knowing he can cover whatever comes up.

sagebrushnw | 2012年10月5日

@ jbunn

Remember Romney's money has already been taxed once at a higher rate, then the second time at 13%.

Mark E | 2012年10月6日

From what I can see Romney made the bulk of his money raiding other people's companies, whereas people like Musk, Jobbs, Gates etc made theirs by creating something new.

It's much easier to make a lot of money if you start with some and others are creating opportunities for you to exploit. Much harder if you start with nothing, and without parents who can give you a good education.

Such a pity that he is having pot shots at a startup company that is actually developing and building things rather than supporting the 'dig it up and sell it' or ' buy he company and strip the assets' brigades.

As for tax rates paid by the seriously rich - I'm generally appalled when a multi millionaire pays less tax (particularly in gross amounts) than a middle class earner.

Of course this is a moot point because no one wants to pay more tax, including me. When you see how so much of it is spent - priced an invasion lately? Those billions spent into developing alternatives to oil and coal burning would have been better value for money - and that's before the human cost with the thousands murdered.

walla2 | 2012年10月6日

Dudes. It was a joke. I did see/know that. Plus, he didn't release his 2012 returns as I am certain he has yet to submit those.