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IRS Form 8911, Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit

IRS Form 8911, Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit

The IRS recently updated Form 8911 on their website for the Federal Tax credit for installing a home EV charging system. From the website and link below:

"These lines are now shown as “Reserved for future use” in case Congress extends the credit for 2018."

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8911

Fingers crossed something is passed, but not holding my breath....

jimglas | 2019年1月30日

Until republicans no longer control the government, nothing will happen

stevenmaifert | 2019年1月31日

"Until republicans no longer control the government, nothing will happen" Now why would you say that? Were you aware that on February 9, 2018, a republican controlled congress passed and a republican president signed H.R.1892 that retroactively extended this tax credit through the end of 2017. Perhaps if a democrat controlled house would get down to governing instead of trying to obstruct everything Trump does, they might consider another tax extender act that would include this tax credit for our 2018 taxes.

dsvick | 2019年2月1日

I don't see either party going back and reinstating a credit that they already let expire.

finman100 | 2019年2月1日

ITMFA

M3phan | 2019年2月2日

Not helpful to this thread.

Hoololly | 2020年2月3日

Actually, Congress (both parties) did go back and reinstate the expired credit. They extended it through 2020.

https://irc.bloombergtax.com/public/uscode/doc/irc/section_30c - See subparagraph 30C(g)

The change was enacted on 12/20/19, and the IRS just hasn't updated the form for tax years 2018 or 2019 yet.

stebo1 | 2020年2月3日

If I am reading this correctly, this is not for a home charger - only for business use.

Hoololly | 2020年2月4日

It applies to home, business or mixed use. Tax credit = 30% of the cost. Per I.R.C. § 30C(b), the credit for the business portion of the expense is limited to $30,000, personal/home portion is limited to $1,000. If you read down to I.R.C. § 30C(d), you can see that the code differentiates between business and personal credits there as well.

FISHEV | 2020年2月4日

" paragraph (1) of section 179A(d) did not apply to property installed on property which is used as the principal residence (within the meaning of section 121) of the taxpayer, and."

Translation? Does that include or exclude chargers installed at principal residence?

It looked like all the supporting numbers requested by Form 8911 came from tax documents filed by businesses not individuals.

Hoololly | 2020年2月4日

Translation:

The definition of “qualified clean fuel vehicle property” is the same in 30C and 179A *except* the requirement in 179A(d) that it has to be a depreciable asset (i.e., business property) does not apply if the refueling property is installed at your primary residence.

So in other words, if it's installed at your principal residence, then the requirement that it be depreciable (i.e. business) property does not apply.

Here's a link to the 2017 Form 8911, which is the most recent "fileable" version. Part I/Line 1 is your total cost. Part II/Line 2 is the business/investment use part. If it's a personal use charger, you put a 0 there and then skip down to Part III "Credit for Personal Use Part of Refueling Property" and allocate 100% of the cost to personal use.

Hoololly | 2020年2月4日

Rereading my answer, I realize I said the same thing in reverse order, and didn't plainly answer the question.

The section 30C credit does include chargers installed at a principal residence.

FISHEV | 2020年2月4日

"The section 30C credit does include chargers installed at a principal residence."

Thanks.

Hoololly | 2020年2月7日

BTW, the updated Form 8911 is now available at https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf The form itself doesn't indicate that it applies to a specific tax year, so you'd presumably use the same form for 2018 and 2019.

arkreymer | 2020年2月7日

The form is updated, but not the instructions.

Pierogi | 2020年2月7日

@Hoololly - your posts on this subject are very much appreciated! I had given up on this tax credit but saw your response to my original post. Thank you!

arkreymer | 2020年2月8日

The instructions for form 8911 are now up to date .Enjoy !

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8911

FISHEV | 2020年2月8日

Form is still confusing when looking at as Personal Tax Deduction.

"Line 12Generally, enter $1,000. However, if the location of your main home changed during the tax year and you placed personal use refueling property in service at both locations during the tax year, enter $2,000."

Why just $1k credit if my install cost $10k and 30% is $3k deduction?

It all refers back to business investments so still not clear this can be deducted by home owner vs. a business owner using personal property for charging for business reasons.

Has anyone actually applied for this credit for their home chargers or talked to a CPA who can confirm that this credit is available to non-business entities?

Our HOA's costs would be $75k, $12k per individual so 30%/$4k of that would a big plus.

DiminishedSeventh | 2020年2月8日

@fishev, it’s all spelled out in the instructions. The maximum tax credit is $1,000, so for line 12, you enter $1,000 if you installed charging equipment at 1 residence. If you moved, and installed charging equipment at both residences, you double the max credit, thus, $2,000.

If your install cost $10,000, you would put that on line 10. 30% of that would be $3,000 so that amount would go on line 11. $1,000 would go on line 12 unless you moved and installed chargers at both residences. Line 13, you would put $1,000 as that is the MAXIMUM credit you can claim. That’s why it says “the SMALLER of 30% of the property’s cost or $1,000” (emphasis added).

Not sure where you’re getting confused; part 1 is total cost, part 2 is business use part, part 3 is personal use part. If your business use is 0%, your personal use is 100%. The form is made in case charging equipment is used for both purposes, for example if you work from home and claim travel as business expenses.

TL;DR - If your install costs $3,333.33 or more, you can only claim the maximum credit of $1,000. If your install costs $3,333.32 or less, you would claim whatever 30% of your costs is.

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

FISHEV | 2020年2月9日

"The maximum tax credit is $1,000,"

That wasn't clear from the form. It says 30% of maximum cost of $30,000 which would be $9,000. If only $1k if spending max of $30k then 30% of $30k in instructions is confusing.

"For property of a character not subject to an allowance for depreciation placed in service at your main home (personal use property), the credit for all property placed in service at your main home is generally the smaller of 30% of the property’s cost or $1,000"

FISHEV | 2020年2月9日

"For property of a character subject to an allowance for depreciation (business/investment use property), the credit for all property placed in service at each location is generally the smaller of 30% of the property’s cost or $30,000."

DiminishedSeventh | 2020年2月9日

@fishev, re-read the last sentence for your first quote (the same sentence I quoted above):

“[...] the credit for all property placed in service at your main home is generally the smaller of 30% of the property’s cost or $1,000."

The SMALLER of 30% OR $1,000. If 30% is $3,000, then which is smaller? $3,000 or $1,000? I really don’t know how it could be more clear in the instructions.

Your first quote is regarding PERSONAL use property (which I’m assuming is what you are looking for since your questions mostly reflect around personal use). However, your second quote regarding the $30,000 is for BUSINESS use property.

@fishev: “That wasn't clear from the form. It says 30% of maximum cost of $30,000 which would be $9,000. If only $1k if spending max of $30k then 30% of $30k in instructions is confusing.”

Your are confusing the word OR with the word OF. It says 30% of the property’s cost OR $30,000. Not OF $30,000. There is no “maximum cost of $30,000”. The $30,000 is the maximum TAX CREDIT you can claim. Also, again, that one refers to BUSINESS use property. If it’s personal use property, refer to your first quote: 30% of the property’s cost OR $1,000.

Refer to my TL;DR above.

FISHEV | 2020年2月9日

"The $30,000 is the maximum TAX CREDIT you can claim."

"The maximum tax credit is $1,000,"

"Hopefully that clears it up for you."

Not exactly.

DiminishedSeventh | 2020年2月9日

Sweet Jesus. Pulling quotes of out context. You should be a politician.

If you actually read the next sentence after I said $30,000 is the maximum tax credit, you’ll see I said that is for BUSINESS USE.

Here’s the crayon version for you:

Personal use - 30% of your cost or $1,000; whichever is smaller.
Business use - 30% of your cost or $30,000; whichever is smaller.

If you still don’t understand, then pay a CPA to do your taxes. I’m done restating the same facts over and over again.

FISHEV | 2020年2月9日

"If you still don’t understand, then pay a CPA to do your taxes."

Because the language you use is not in the documentation at all.

Usually do just plain TurboTax but if we do get our charger install past Army Corps of Engineers, definitely consult a tax pro as the language and line items all refer to business related even the personal refers to it as business owners contribution of personal property.

DiminishedSeventh | 2020年2月9日

@fishev: “Because the language you use is not in the documentation at all.”

Right. Because the direct quotes I pulled from the instructions are “not in the documentation at all.”

Clearly, reading is not your strong suit. Since you didn’t understand the instructions they way they were written, I added some clarifications along with the direct quotes from the instructions. But if you want the language that’s “in the documentation”, then why are you even here asking questions? You’re free to go read through the instructions over and over again as that’s the only place that has the language used in the documentation.

If you don’t even have any charging equipment installed, you can’t claim any tax credit. Since you’re going to “consult a tax pro” anyways, why are you even here? Go talk to them. Or fill out the form wrong. Honestly, I don’t care anymore because you are so ungrateful for anyone’s help.

DiminishedSeventh | 2020年2月12日

Just a follow up since @fishev says he uses TurboTax, here’s what 30 seconds searching TurboTax has to say about the topic (I’ll use direct quotes here, since @fishev doesn’t seem to understand anything else):

“Energized individual returns
[...]
The maximum credit is $1,000 or 30 percent of the installation cost, whichever is lower. Should you move to a new home during the year and install recharging equipment at the new residence, you can claim 30 percent of the cost of both installations up to a maximum of $2,000.”

“Dispensing business incentive
[...]
The maximum credit per location is the lesser of $30,000 or 30 percent of the cost.”

Source: https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/going-green/what-is-form-8911-alter...

I’m sure @fishev will find something to complain about as usual. Or maybe he’s silent now because he realized he was wrong but can’t admit it. Nah... he’ll probably still try to convince everyone that we’ve all been doing it wrong for years and everyone who has gotten this tax credit in the past has been a fluke.