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Shadow Braking during Autopilot still an issue?

Shadow Braking during Autopilot still an issue?

Now that more model 3 owners are getting Autopilot due to the price reduction, is shadow braking still a concern. In the past, there have been quite a few reports of the car braking randomly due to shadows from overpasses etc. Has anyone experienced this lately?

cquail | 2019年8月19日

Had one incident yesterday with wife driving where Model 3 on Autopilot. Slowed from 70 mph to 45 mph while driving on I 70 east late in the day. Thought it might have been a shadow caused by the setting sun that triggered it. Luckily no one rear ended us.

Joshan | 2019年8月19日

I Cant even remember the last time it happened to me, couple months maybe and at least 5k miles ago.

SalisburySam | 2019年8月19日

Happens all the time for me, LR RWD EAP/FSD, since update to 24.4. Recent 1300-miles trip: 8 phantom braking events outbound, 9 events on the way home. Very much worse than my experiences on the same route twice before on earlier software. Upside: I’ve gotten really, really good at pithy bug reporting.

FISHEV | 2019年8月19日

Still the same. Weeping willow tree that hangs over a road the Tesla sees several times a week triggered an hard brake was the last new spot. Some overpasses still will trigger it. Both cases of being oversensitive to objects that might mimi tractor trailers turning in front the car maybe?

Still the highway brakes as Model 3 misidentifies cars in their lane as coming into the the Tesla's lane. The 2-3 mph speed drop when passing with adaptive cruise only on.

How adaptive cruise can be so flakey and apparently unfixable and Tesla is still selling "Full Self Driving" to customers seems a hard contradiction.

jstat10 | 2019年8月19日

Adaptive cruise control works great for me. No phantom braking except for occasionally in construction zones.

Devilstower | 2019年8月19日

I’m having no issues at all on interstates. But I’m still seeing the situation on other roads — even limited access highways — where the database seems to pick up the speed limit from a side road, or even an off ramp. So I’ll be trekking along in 65 mph speed limit, then the car will suddenly become convinced that the speed limit is 40 ... for about 100 feet.

Sgwebb.us | 2019年8月19日

It has been a couple of months for me as well, there was one pedestrian overpass on I-25 where it would happen frequently, and I think it stopped a couple of months ago

mk4ce | 2019年8月19日

AP and TACC still give me phantom braking usually within seconds of enabling either one. Doesn't matter the type of road or speed. Or if other cars are in their lane. Or if there are very well marked lines on highway or suburbs. 10mph-75mph. I only enable when I feel like keeping my foot on the accelerator the entire time to avoid the car ‘braking’ my neck, scaring my passengers or being rear ended. My favorite incident was while I was on AP in a 40mph zone in the suburbs, the car quickly steered me into the direction of a brick wall off to my right. The system was not avoiding anything in front of me either. Thank goodness for quick reflexes. AP does work well in once place - on a two lane express lane that between the Denver airport and Boulder, CO (E-470 Express Lane). I’ll probably keep AP and TACC off until the next update.

lbowroom | 2019年8月19日

Just drove Orange County to Las Vegas and back this weekend on AP. Didn't have any phantom braking episodes or any issue at all. Traffic stopped hard a couple times (80-0) to where the car in front of me had to swing to the median to avoid collision. My car stopped fine. I don't doubt that there are locations and circumstances that have problems but pretty sure some on this forum relish to exploit those and exaggerate the outcome.

Joshan | 2019年8月19日

@mk4ce "AP and TACC still give me phantom braking usually within seconds of enabling either one. "

Either there is something really wrong with your car or there is some user error. This is in NO WAY normal for anyone.

jerrykham | 2019年8月19日

Well it isn't really "phantom braking" as that would mean braking that didn't really happen. But it is braking for phantom menaces. And it happens all the time. Happened a couple of times yesterday on I680 between Alamo and Concord in California in my wife's model 3. Happens all the time in my model S as well. It is most pronounced for us when we are in the Fast Track lane (previously a carpool lane) and that lane is going say 20 MPH faster than the next lane. You will see braking for phantom menaces a lot in those conditions and it is almost 100% when you are about to pass a car in that other lane.

paddix | 2019年8月23日

Yes - this happened to me today evening on Mass Pike in Boston. Happened after a few weeks and I thought that the machine learning was kicking in but not so much.... it was a hard brake at 65 mpg and was lucky not to have a car right behind ....

minhvo13 | 2019年9月16日

Happened to me today after I got v10 Beta (2019.32.2.11 1a8580f) updated last night. It was a hard brake at 73mph on freeway 101 bayarea around 2:30 pm. I noticed there was an overpass ~100 feet ahead of my car and the car behind almost hit mine. Luckily, I reacted fast by pushing the gas pedal to avoid the accident.

vmulla | 2019年9月16日

@minhvo13,
Was your car having this behavior at that location before v10?

minhvo13 | 2019年9月16日

Nope! This is the first time I had such a scary experience with autopilot. I commute to work every day on the same route.

beaver | 2019年9月16日

It’s been ok for me, a few grief slow downs but it as severe as in the past. I am on 32.2.2

Joho.keith | 2019年9月16日

I also experience “unnecessary braking” (more accurate name than phantom braking) in the HOV lane when it is traveling much faster than the right lanes. I also see unnecessary braking if a car in the adjacent lane has done an aggressive lane change but has not entered my lane. Earlier software didn’t do this as much. It seems that speed regulation isn’t as smooth as it used to be. The car seems to speed up and slow down a lot. This has reduced my use of EAP lately. Guess I’ll wait until the next update and see if it improves.

h2ev | 2019年9月17日

There's this overpass with a bright and pointed street lamp around it on i80. I don't often use autopilot, but the 3 times I did use it and passed under that overpass, the car SLAMMED on the brakes all 3 times, going from around 70 to around 40 in an instant before it let go. It easily could've caused a car behind me to slam right into me. It has happened on couple other occasions on another road.

As I said I don't use autopilot often, but prior to perhaps the past 2-3 updates, I've never had the car slam on the brakes like that.

HoustonM3 | 2019年9月17日

The most recent update causes the most unpredictable movements I’ve experiences since purchasing the car. Frequent swerving within the lane when no cars are around, phantom braking, switching back and forth between the speed limit and some random, much lower, speed limit. Yesterday I was on the highway with a speed limit of 65mph when suddenly the car braked HARD and threw me forward. I immediately hit the accelerator to prevent becoming rear ended and simultaneously looked at the screen for any indication as to what happened. The speed limit on the screen was 40mph (in the 65mph zone). I kept on the accelerator until the screen showed the limit was 65mph again and went back to letting the car control the speed. It suddenly brakes hard again a few miles later with the same supposed change in speed limit. This happened over and over until I turned off autopilot. With the swerving and slamming on the brakes, I can’t trust the car and won’t try autopilot again until the next update. The safety mechanisms are going to cause a wreck.

SalisburySam | 2019年9月17日

Yeah, this is one area that seems intractable for Tesla. Last March (firmware 2018.50.6) and August (2019.24.4) I reported the same phantom braking. Today on 2019.28.3.1, I regret to report still no improvement. Latest example: 120-mile round trip on I-85 to/from GSO airport, very light traffic, no overpasses/large trees, no traffic within at least 8 car lengths any direction, no parallel feeder roads, and 3 phantom braking events for no discernible reason. That was on the way back only after dropping off my wife for a business trip. No events on the way to since she will not permit using TACC with her in the car. This one problem really spoils the Model 3 experience for me to the point we are actually considering selling it and getting something with a working and reliable cruise control. Very frustrating, very sad.

calvin940 | 2019年9月17日

Shadow braking isn't happening for me either and from what it seems, a number of people are saying it has reduced or gone for them as well. Seems clear that Tesla is making good progress with this.

vmulla | 2019年9月17日

The thing with phantom braking is that it doesn't matter what is happening with others, it's jarring when it happens to you.

As far as reduction is concerned, maybe it is getting reduced - but we also have reports of the new software showing shadow braking behavior at locations that were previously ok. So, it's like 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

V10 has really good detection and visualization. I hope that tech mitigates this problem in a big way.

Joshan | 2019年9月17日

It is NOT phantom braking when the speed limit changes. It is doing exactly what t is supposed to do. This is a database error that needs to be corrected. Make sure you open a bug report on those so they get fixed.

calvin940 | 2019年9月17日

"ok. So, it's like 2 steps forward, 1 step back."

To be fair, I don't think that is uniformly true. It may be so in certain aspects of course, but it doesn't apply to all aspects of their progress.

I think there are a lot of people who don't understand much about what is being done here and make simple statements based on complex challenges. The best thing we can do for a pioneering company is to provide as much feedback as possible to help them with their efforts. I know that they collect data, but lack of context can make it more time consuming/difficult to understand what is happening.

Hal Fisher | 2019年9月17日

Mine started acting weird the other day. Slowed a little here and there for no reason. Maybe the camera gets dirt blocking? I just washed it and cleaned them all. I’ll see how it is today. It will need to warn you about that.

calvin940 | 2019年9月17日

" It will need to warn you about that."

I absolutely agree that it is in the best interest of the system and safety for the software to pickup on some clarity or obfuscation quotient which it will then notify they driver when a threshold is reached.

rkalbiarEV | 2019年9月17日

Oh yeah, still an issue.

Pepperidge | 2019年9月17日

Shadow breaking happens at here https://goo.gl/maps/69SuUMdxWpK9hba57
2019.32.2.xx

henry.groover | 2019年9月18日

This happened to me this past weekend. I could not see any reason for it. I was going on the lower deck of northbound I-35 in downtown Austin. Filed a bug report. I've gotten a few phantom braking events on surface roads but they are pretty mild. This was at 60mph and was rather unsettling. Fortunately I did not have anyone tailgating at the time.

vmulla | 2019年9月18日

Unexpected braking on surface streets is undesirable but the system wasn't supposed to be used there anyway.

Braking on a highway is a concern, that's a valid concern only when the speed limits are not changing.

For the cases where the speed limit is changing and the car brakes abruptly that's not undesirable braking - its following the rules. Maybe it can be tuned to be gradual and humanlike, but that'll happen as system evolves.

bjrosen | 2019年9月18日

Just happened to me. I don't use autopilot much but my business partner wanted to see what it could do so I turned it on for a few miles. It braked suddenly for no apparent reason.

Eazyndn | 2019年9月18日

Happens to me at least once every trip on the highway. Really dangerous, haven’t found any correlation as to cause.

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