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Corrective autosteer collision avoidance

Corrective autosteer collision avoidance

It has happened to be 3 times.

I drive and cycle a lot so i go into Vermont on country roads and encounter a lot of fellow cyclists. When they are on the same side of the road I use the flasher to show my intent to overtake them by using the full other lane when there is no other car coming of course.

But when I encounter a cyclist being overtaken by a drive in the other direction I usually tend to move a bit on the right in the service lane to give some space for the other car to move away from the cyclist.

3 times to collision avoidance alarm started beeping and forced me back toward the midline of the road where I know the other car is heading.

I tried to deactivate all the autopilot and driving assist features but it did it again after.
I reported Bug Report twice.

FISHEV | 2019年6月10日

The lane keeping works pretty much like all good lane keeping systems so I wouldn’t want Tesla to change that. I think you can turn it off for the situations you describe. Knowing it’s going to grab the wheel helps. I was avoiding a pothole and car grabbed wheel and steered back into it because it crossed the line. Now I know to keep a firm grip if I”m purposely crossing the line. As long as it is consistent and predictable.

ODWms | 2019年6月11日

Same thing happened to me twice yesterday on a long drive. I tried to lightly steer away from objects in the road, and the feature made all the noises and nudged me back onto the direction I’m trying to avoid. All good as I was able to physically overcome it.

mmm | 2019年6月11日

I can't stand the new ELDA, it makes me feel less safe. I think we should be allowed to permanently turn it off.

dwakelee | 2019年6月11日

Biggest issue is when there is something/someone approaching in the opposing lane which requires you to cross over the into the shoulder a bit to allow safe distance. Countless threads on this now - here and at TMC. Both on topic, and those talking about latest firmware and asking if this feature now allows permanent disable (which it doesn't). Vast improvements and/or permanent disable is needed.

We need to rally a bit to get this corrected, but repeated posts on this unmonitored user forum probably won't get it done. In order to get resolution, please enter a bug report and/or send support a message.

EVolution | 2019年6月11日

Believe me I have 4 tesla rep and 2 engineers working on my Tesla everyday because the screen doesn’t turn on sincen I have taken delivery of the car 2 months ago.

I have to reset the screen every time I get in my car to get it to show something.

Engineers called me about 10 times for test, came at home for hard resets. Now I have been bug reporting this many times. I am not taking my time to write on these forums for fun.

dwakelee | 2019年6月11日

In addition to notifying Tesla, I'd recommend detailing your firmware version, vehicle (RWD, AWD, Perf), and steering mode setting. Some theories and data suggesting this is more of a problem with 'Comfort' steering setting. We have many people say ELDA works fine, and many people say it doesn't - seems to be more than just driving environment.

For me, I'm at firmware 2019.16.2, RWD, and Comfort steering. I've had it fire 3 times falsely for me, twice due to making room for oncoming opposing traffic over the center line (#1 cyclist on other side, #2 oversize tractor). In both of those cases it autocentered toward creating a near collision. I took back control, but quite disturbing - a safety hazard as others have mentioned.

jjgunn | 2019年6月11日

Yup had it happen to me as well. I believe it's an excellent safety feature.

Stay with it & don't let go of the wheel.

Cars safety features have saved me from at least 2-3 accidents. None would've been my fault but I don't want an effed up car that needs repair.

sheldon.mike1010 | 2019年6月11日

What jjgunn says: don't let go of the wheel.

EVolution | 2019年6月12日

2019.16.2
RWD
Sport steering

@jjgunn
It’s the first car I own that has safety features in 16 years of driving and it is now the car I have to be the most aware when driving. No history of accident

billtphotoman | 2019年6月12日

I am with @mmm on this one: Allow permanently disabling it or perhaps allowing me to temporarily disable it by pressing one of the thumbwheels as I turn the wheel. I am attentive enough (I don't phone and drive let alone text and drive) that I won't be unintentionally leaving my lane.

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

For all of those defending this ridiculous feature, how many times in your driving life have you encountered a situation in which having the car "corrective steer" would have saved you from an accident? If more than zero, you probably shouldn't be driving.

The only real-life situation where I can see it preventing an accident would be if you are engaging is some sort of behavior that should pre-empt you from driving in the first place. Driving under the influence, driving while texting, driving while eating, driving under excessive fatigue, driving while being an idiot etc. If you need the car to help you with the very most basic of driving tasks, keeping the fucking car on the road, you should not be driving.

howard | 2019年6月12日

NEKEV For or all of those defending this ridiculous feature,

You know this is the "Tesla" forum, right? Defence is the only game here.

FISHEV | 2019年6月12日

"For all of those defending this ridiculous feature, how many times in your driving life have you encountered a situation in which having the car "corrective steer" would have saved you from an accident?"

I haven't had a situation where ABS, seatbelts, airbags, crumple ones have "saved me" but we do know that these safety features save thousands of people. You can read here why safety design and devices work.

www.iihs.org

" If more than zero, you probably shouldn't be driving."

Because the drunk in the other lane who doesn't have lane keeping is crossing the line we should get rid of all safety equipment because of course any "good driver" can avoid the other car.

If Tesla or any mfg. is going to offer a feature, it is on them to make it work properly and, if not a regulatory requirement, allow owner to turn off and on as needed. In this case, Tesla allows you to turn off lane keeping but it has to be done each time you get in the car. Fair enough to make users turn off proven safety devices each time as the safety device is there as much for them as the other car.

Neomaxizoomdweebie | 2019年6月12日

This bull has got to die, right? I’m about to get margin called!

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

@FISHEV
So, to use an extreme example, what if your airbag went off 2-3 times a day for no reason? I'm not opposed to the feature per se, just that A) it is not ready for real-world driving situations, and B) there is no way to permanently disable it until it gets there. In its current state, it is more harmful than helpful, and should be fixed.

FISHEV | 2019年6月12日

"So, to use an extreme example, what if your airbag went off 2-3 times a day for no reason?"

Analogy doesn't work since the lane keeping is working as it is supposed to work and it works like any other lane keeping...(well almost but a slightly different issue). It sees car crossing line it warns and corrects.

1. Car as good working lane keeping safety feature.
2.. Issue is being able to turn it off. You can.
3. Convenience issue, it has to be done every time you start the car.

Again it is a proven safety feature so its a legit strategy for Tesla and any other car mfg. to make it on by default every time the car is started. Safety design that proven safety devices must be manually turned off each time.

Key for me is consistency. As long as I know how the car is going to behave, I can be adapt. But I've found the lane keeping to be inconsistent. Recognizing lines sometime, not others. This leads to surprises and that's where the danger lies.

jjgunn | 2019年6月12日

If you live in cow-town Nebraska, population 267, yeah you probably don't need this feature.

I've had drunks sideswipe me & plow into the back on my car - this feature will help avoid some/most of these accidents.

FYI....I drive for a living & I have to have a good driving record or I no longer earn money -- I love the tech & safety features. They help!

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

@FISHEV
It may be working as it is supposed to for you, but for me, and many others, it is not. It engages when I am well within my 'lane', multiple times per day. I do most of my driving on secondary roads. Either gravel or poorly marked paved roads. It simply does not perform correctly in this environment. Even on well-marked roads, it can engage when I am still in my lane, but giving a little extra room to a cyclist or oncoming vehicle. I cringe to think how it will behave with our snow-covered Vermont roads.

howard | 2019年6月12日

There are three levels:

Lane Departure Avoidance Warning. Yes works as it is supposed to work.

Lane Departure Avoidance Assist. Yes works as it is supposed to work.

Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance. NO, IT DOES NOT work as it is supposed to work.

It produces false alarms that are triggered by simply getting close to the right-hand line with no other traffic or conditions that even remotely justify the EMERGENCY alarm and assist to go off. This has been repeatedly described by others as well as documented in videos showing the improper functioning of the Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance system.

Joshan | 2019年6月12日

Confused how this is new or a Tesla issue. My Acura RDX does the same exact thing.

Joshan | 2019年6月12日

Confused how this is new or a Tesla issue. My Acura RDX does the same exact thing.

ICEMELT | 2019年6月12日

The kind of scenarios people have reported, seem legit. I had a similar scenario. This feature is good but needs more work. Disabling ELDA until turned on should be an option.

Until then pay extra attention and anticipate the possibility that steering can takeover if perceived emergency.

howard | 2019年6月12日

Joshan | June 12, 2019
Confused how this is new or a Tesla issue. My Acura RDX does the same exact thing.

My past 2018 Bolt or current 2019 Volt do not produce false emergency alerts.

Joshan | 2019年6月12日

if you are so in love with Chevys why dont you sell your tesla and go to their forums. Every post from you is about how awesome your chevy is.

Joshan | 2019年6月12日

BTW you going to go to their forums and rail on them for lowering the price 10k?

Deep Discounts On Chevy Bolt - Up To $11,500 Off MSRP

derotam | 2019年6月12日

@NEKEV, couple comments... first, you can't say it is more harmful than helpful if you can't point to instances where it has caused a crash.

Second comment... I call BS on your statement of it going off "when I am well within my 'lane'," Please provide video to show this behavior.

I will also specify that the LDA is designed to prevent you from exiting your lane so it should kick in before you actually touch the line. My opinion on ELDA is that that it should be the same but adds the alarm if it thinks there could be a collision if you were to exit the lane.

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

derotam
I don't think a crash is necessary to draw the conclusion that this feature, as it behaves, is a big distraction.

Thank you for calling BS. My point, and the reason I put quotes around 'lane' is that much of my driving is on gravel roads where there are no marked lanes. Providing video would prove exactly nothing one way or the other and I am not going to waste my time. Instead I've filed bug reports and have an appointment for Mobile Service.

Neomaxizoomdweebie | 2019年6月12日

Perhaps LDA is to keep you in your own lane on a multilane road while ELDA is to keep you form departing the roadway to the right or moving into oncoming traffic to the left.

Techy James | 2019年6月12日

@NEKEV, to say there is never a time where a feature like lane departure warning or automatic emergency breaking couldn't be a benefit is to show how limited your driving has been. I can think of two situations where those features could be of benefit. Situation 1 your driving at night and coming around a bend, and suddenly either (on Coming Car High beams or construction lighting) causes a temporary blindness while your eyes adjust. Situation 2 your driving and as you come over top of hill the sun is reflected off glass of either building or car window also causing temporary blindness.

As for the ELDA preventing you from avoiding an obstacle, that is contrary to my testing. When it first came out, I had the lane departure warning enabled as steering vibration and steering set to standard. If I intentionally drifted toward right marker where no damage would occur to car should I cross the line, the ELDA steered the car back towards center of lane with the audible alert plus steering wheel vibration. In cases where I made an abrupt steer like avoiding an obstacle and crossed the right lane marker, there was no ELDA, but I did get the Lane Departure warning in form of Steering Wheel vibration.
Now for the case where you steer to lane marker to give on coming car or bike more space, that I could potentially see as that wouldn't typically be abrupt obstacle type steering but more a gradual steering. I would image my testing of the ELDA would match this, and in this case you would likely have to override by a more firm steer. This is where a setting like Comfort Steering could work against you as the steering has more play in it.

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

@Techy James
I disagree it is an indication of limited driving. I'm not old, but have 26 years of driving experience, have lived in both urban (SF bay Area) and rural areas and drive is some of the most extreme winter conditions. On the other hand, I agree that those are two valid use cases for the feature.

eplaskett | 2019年6月12日

NEKEV,

I have been driving for over 30 years, with no accidents or tickets on my record. I am an excellent and highly defensive driver. That said, this feature saved me from a potential collision that I couldn't have seen coming just a week ago.

I was in the left lane on the interstate, preparing to move over to the right for my work exit, about 3 miles ahead. I put on my signal, did my shoulder check, saw the lane was clear, started to move over and resumed looking forward. The lane departure alarm went off and the system gently nudged the car back into its original lane. I was puzzled but after a few seconds went through my signaling and shoulder checking again and successfully executed a lane change.

When I got to work, I checked the footage from the TeslaCam. Sure enough, a pickup truck a car length or so behind me, in the right lane, without his signal on, started moving into the center lane at the same time I did, going for the same spot. He probably did so a split second after I finished my shoulder check. The system saw that a collision was a possibility - not a certainty, mind you, but a possibility, and intervened to eliminate that possibility. These are the types of collisions that always worry me the most because they're hard to predict - two cars going for the same lane at the same time, from opposite directions.

So, there's at least one instance where this system behaved exactly as intended and supplemented already safe driving practices. I was very glad it was active at the time.

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

@eplaskett
Sounds like the feature works well for your driving environment.

derotam | 2019年6月12日

@NEKEV. Ok then lets go this route, because I do like to see evidence of how ELDA is behaving for some people... You say that is isn't working as it is "supposed" to for you. Can you describe some specific scenarios and why you think it is behaving as it is not supposed to? Video is always good too, to help give full context.

dwakelee | 2019年6月12日

The problem seems to be there are a lot of variables that the system doesn't factor in. Are the roads clearly marked, is the road straight or curving, one-way divided highway road or opposing traffic, is the road flat or crowned, how firm is the drivers grip, what Comfort/Standard/Sport steering effort setting, is there a reason the driver should be over the line (oncoming traffic not in their lane, pot hole, debris, floodwater), etc. Clearly ELDA is not dealing with this well, and at present the system is just not foolproof enough as other safety systems. And taking improper and unsafe evasive actions counter to the drivers intent is more than a nuisance.

We need to take this back in our control. Defaulting this always on is just not correct for the limited scenarios it can properly reconcile today vs. the faults it creates. Great for highway, bad for just about everything else right now. Be vigilant with your bug reports and communication with Tesla.

howard | 2019年6月12日

Joshan | June 12, 2019
if you are so in love with Chevys why dont you sell your tesla and go to their forums. Every post from you is about how awesome your chevy is.

Just pointing out that GM released a better-finished product with respect to some functions and this is one of them. Unlike my 78k Tesla. I know the gang does not like those facts but they are what the are, cry, insult, fume, swear all you want.

Funny thing is I feel the same exact way about why it is this way!!! Please explain?

NEKEV | 2019年6月12日

@derotam
Engaging unnecessarily. Usually on a gravel road or a poorly marked paved road. No other cars in sight. Sometimes, specifically on a gravel road, it will try to put the car too far into the center. to the point that if there were an oncoming car, they would have to head for the ditch.

derotam | 2019年6月12日

@NEKEV, I do see how a gravel road could create issues as there aren't lane markings, so it is a matter of where the car thinks the lane line is. But then there is the whole idea that it doesn't engage if going less than 30mph...so then what gravel road are you driving down going 30mph? Alternately, even if above the speed required for activation, on a gravel road that isn't wide enough for two cars, you should still be able to ease over without ELDA triggering. LDA may trigger if it doesn't think you are directing the travel path, but you can overpower that.

Again...videos of your situations are VERY helpful for understanding the WHY, and to possibly show if you(or anyone) is being MAYBE a bit unreasonable in their complaint. I'm not saying you are being unreasonable, I just want to understand, or maybe help you understand(if I can) why it is doing what it is doing when it is doing it and videos would help.

EVolution | 2019年6月12日

ELDA would have saved my Mazda 6 winter Mags when I had to press the Answer call button 2 years ago and I always tend to go near the white line on the right of the road on a road that is encountering other vehicles at 70kph. It would have brought me back in the center of my lane and prevented the pothole right on the white line of destroying my front passenger mag.

I always assume that the truck driver of the 18wheeler I encounter is going to have a hearth attack when arriving at 25 meters of my car so I instinctively move at the far right of my lane when there is no cyclist or pedestrians. But ELDA is always wrongly assuming I am falling asleep and going offroad

EVolution | 2019年6月12日

*heart attack

FISHEV | 2019年6月12日

@NEKEV "Either gravel or poorly marked paved roads. It simply does not perform correctly in this environment."

That's a challenge for any lane keeping system.

As I noted above, the issue I have with Tesla's lane keeping is sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and there doesn't seem to be a consistency to its working. And this is on well marked roads where the Tesla should do well. When it does work, it's pretty much like any other lane keeping in regard to warning and corrective action. But it will just stop working, I'll get used that and then it works again with a surprise.

It's just plain squirrelly and inconsistent,

andrewsjra | 2019年6月12日

I feel like the recent update 2019.20.1 is much improved. It was going off all the time with the previous version. Nice feature