Thoughts on free Supercharging/FSD removed on CPO's

Thoughts on free Supercharging/FSD removed on CPO's

Long time lurker, first time poster. Just received my 2014 P85+ 20 days ago and I am glad I did, knowing Tesla have now pulled free Supercharging off all the CPO's. Any thoughts if this will affect current owners or if this will ever be transferrable like before when I sell it to a private buyer?

tes-s | 2019年7月24日

Only affects CPOs sold after the change date.

Boonedocks | 2019年7月24日

I am all for it being removed after a trade in.

It (as of now) won’t have any affect on a private sale so if someone is happy with their trade in allowance then if won’t affect them after their trade and it will help Tesla’s long term SuperCharger goals then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

redacted | 2019年7月24日

It's a win for Tesla because it can pay less for your trade-in and also not have to pay out for free supercharging.

It would be interesting to see Tesla remove FSD from cars that were traded in. This would be an equivalent action.

EVRider | 2019年7月24日

Removing FSD is not equivalent because it’s not an ongoing expense to Tesla. That doesn’t mean they won’t remove it, but I hope not.

Daisy the Road ... | 2019年7月24日

How does it reduce the value of a trade in? That value is effectively set by the used market for an MS with FSC. They can't force you to sell your car to them.
Tesla's choice to strip the feature after buying it from you is a cost that they are eating. It is a gamble that they have presumably calculated to be in their favor.

Boonedocks | 2019年7月24日

@EVRider - it appears as Tesla just may be doing it though

jerry | 2019年7月24日

I guess I'm not up to speed on my TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) . What is a CPO? FSC? If I sell my 2016 S to a private buyer, does the buyer get free supercharging for life?

Boonedocks | 2019年7月24日

@Tessnme Y.E.S.

PrescottRichard | 2019年7月24日

CPO- doesn’t exist anymore, there is just pre-owned now. FSC- or FUSC is free supercharging.

At least that’s my understanding.

sarbnoor.gill | 2019年7月24日

@Tessnme CPO in Tesla terms: a pre-owned bought from Tesla with 2/4yr warranty after a 70 point mechanical inspection is completed, no one has any idea on what it entails

Dramsey | 2019年7月24日

Hm. Under the "My Account" tab here, it says:

"You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

I guess they mean "only if you sell it privately"? Removing free supercharging from tradeins that had it seems petty. I seem to recall Elon saying some time ago that supercharging-- back when it was free for everyone-- only cost Tesla about $80 per car per year.

RedJ | 2019年7月24日

I’m not sure why it would be considered petty. The bottom line is that the cost (in either electricity/maintenance or additional SC congestion) is greater to Tesla than they believe buyers are willing to pay, so they aren’t selling it anymore.

rxlawdude | 2019年7月24日

"If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

Seems pretty clear that removal of FUSC when Tesla takes it as trade is a clear violation of the plain language above, but it does not address "the owner after the next..." It is this loophole that allows Tesla (the "next owner") to say it does not apply to the subsequent purchaser. On the other hand, Tesla EXPLICITLY STATED that FUSC "follows the car," implying through all subsequent owners.

However, this new Tesla interpretation implies that even a vehicle sold privately twice will lose FUSC.

Left hand, right hand. Communication is Tesla's Achilles heel.

EVRider | 2019年7月24日

The Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement for my 2016 Model S (which I no longer own) says nothing about free supercharging, even for me. It just says "Supercharging Enabled".

johncrab | 2019年7月24日

This does impact value just because it causes uncertainty in the aftermarket. When I bought my car, the 60 was offered without SC but it could be added $2500 to that model. It was not optional with the 85 and was just included, so it raised the price of the car. Okay, fine. No problem. Since that is now part of the car's original price, removing it is like pulling off a $2k set of wheels and putting on a stamped steel set from a Chevy. It remains to be seen if they do this on all transfers of ownership or just those that go through Tesla. Based on the dismal numbers reported today, I can see why they are trying to squeeze everybody from employees to customers. They killed the annual maintenance and quietly kept our money, so I suspect they will be coming after our supercharging eventually. I have plenty of documentation including videos of Elon talking about how this would remain free and I'll sue if they try to take this away without compensation for reduced vehicle value. Cut me a cheque for what I paid for the "free" and I'll buy my energy like everyone else but do not mess with me on this one.

Dramsey | 2019年7月24日

It occurs to me that it would be a good idea to make a screen grab of my Tesla account page where it notes the car has transferable ULC. Honestly at this point it wouldn't surprise me if the "free supercharging will transfer to the next owner" text mysteriously vanished at some time in the future.

RedJ | 2019年7月24日

I’m really not sure why everyone’s getting anxious about Tesla removing free supercharging from the CPO vehicles they own. If they want to add or remove AP, FSC, FSD from these vehicles it seems like it’s their prerogative. I can see why it might be disappointing for someone in the maker for a CPO who would like free supercharging, but that’s the free market.

For the rest of us this might even be good news since it theoretically could reduce congestion at superchargers.

zeeaaq | 2019年7月24日

I recall Tesla sending something out a while back promising current S and X owners free supercharging when buying a new S or X. Is that still around?

EVRider | 2019年7月25日

@zeeaaq: No, those promotions are usually short lived and designed to boost sales before the end of a quarter.

Tesla’s removal of FUSC from CPO cars should make cars with FUSC more valuable to private buyers, so it’s probably a good thing for current owners of those cars.

nothotpocket | 2019年7月25日

@Dramsey Tesla might not be removing FUSC just to save (or earn) money, but also to lighten up the demand on existing Superchargers, especially in high use areas like mine. If I had to pay it would cost more for to SC than doing it at home, so I'd probably skip most of my SC visits.

SteveZzz | 2019年7月25日

@Dramsey - Take a look at your account page. If yours is like mine, it now clearly says that free supercharging does NOT transfer to the next owner. It must have recently changed from saying that it does to it does not.

Bighorn | 2019年7月25日

This is what my account page says currently:

You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

trixiew | 2019年7月25日

Owners should pay for supercharging. Unpopular statement I’m sure especially from someone who currently gets it for free, but I want to continue to see expansion of supercharging stations and the financial health of the company. Non Tesla owners still have range anxiety so the more chargers available the better for sales. Make the rates low, significantly lower than gas, but still recoop some revenue.

DonS | 2019年7月26日

Tesla can do whatever it wants with CPO cars, add or remove features or paint them garish colors. The used car market determines what the CPO cars are actually worth. I suspect that a few CPO buyers saw free supercharging as a way to run a livery or taxi business very cheaply.

Dramsey | 2019年7月26日

As of two seconds ago, my account still says:

You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

I agree Tesla can do what they want with CPO cars-- except, as we know, Tesla no longer has "CPO cars", they just have used cars, which they perform a secret inspection on before casually hosing them down and offering them for sale. But still. Once they own it, they can replace the wheels with cheap steel rims, disable EAP, etc.

If I sell my car privately, and Tesla wouldn't honor the transferable ULC, well, that would be a problem.


"Owners should pay for supercharging."

Well, except those of us who were _specifically promised in writing_ that we'd have free, unlimited supercharging for the life of the car.


If your account page used to say unlimited supercharging would transfer to the next owner, and now it doesn't, I'd think you have a legal case. But that's just me.

EVRider | 2019年7月27日

@Dramsey: There’s no evidence that Tesla is removing, or intends to remove, FUSC from cars sold privately. I agree that it would be a problem if they did that.

Bighorn | 2019年7月27日

Paranoid ideation. Extrapolating an illegal act from a perfectly legal, and logical one, is illogical.

Bill_75D | 2019年7月27日

Bighorn channelling Mr. Spock

Bighorn | 2019年7月27日

Maybe I should do that 23 and me;)

rxlawdude | 2019年7月27日

@EVRider, what about the second owner selling to a third owner? Does FUSC transfer, given the express language?

EVRider | 2019年7月28日

@rxlawdude: I think it’s highly unlikely Tesla would remove features from a vehicle sold privately, even if they legally could. The number of vehicles eligible for FUSC is an ever shrinking percentage of Tesla’s fleet, so the savings to Tesla don’t seem significant enough to risk legal challenges and ill will.

Bill_75D | 2019年7月28日

We need someone who is a second owner and has FUSC to post their supercharging terms from their MyTesla account. Does it still say this?

You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

stevenmaifert | 2019年7月28日

With so many of the car's features driven by software, it kinda begs the question... When the original owner of the car purchases the vehicle, is he/she also purchasing the software that runs it or just a license to use it during the period of ownership. If the latter is the case, Tesla could probably get away with removing whatever they wanted once the original owner relinquishes ownership either through a private sale or a trade in to Tesla.

AZGLFR | 2019年7月28日

I am second owner of 2015 S 85D . My account says that I have free supercharging and if I sell the supercharging will transfer to the new owner . Actually worded exactly as you posted Bill_ ....

rxlawdude | 2019年7月28日

@AZGLFR, when did you purchase your 85D?

AZGLFR | 2019年7月28日

Bought it July 2018 , it had 55k+ miles on it . Previous owner was in California.

BarryQ | 2019年7月28日

In May I traded my 2013 S60 to a dealer in Texas. The dealer just sold the car, and the new owner contacted me (a few days ago) with some questions. He told me he DOES have the free unlimited supercharging. (So technically he is the 3rd owner).

AERODYNE | 2019年7月28日

Rxlaw....same here as AZ. Second owner, MS85D bought from Tesla Sept 2018

rxlawdude | 2019年7月28日

So it's odd that Tesla would act unlike any other transferee, in that they can remove a feature that was paid for in full at original purchase.

Kind of bush league, but in Tesla's right to do so. I guess one can must trade a better warranty (Tesla pre-owned) for free Supercharging (if purchased privately).

rxlawdude | 2019年7月28日

er, "can must" -> "must"

cmichael | 2019年7月28日

I seem to have different language for this making FUSC non-transferable under Manage.

"You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla vehicle. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will not transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms."


steveg1701 | 2019年7月28日

@cmichael you probably used a referral code when you bought the car, there was a time where that would get you nontransferable FUSC

cmichael | 2019年7月28日

@steveg1701. Nope. I traded a 85S in for the current 100D via Tesla Oakbrook back in 2017 when 100Ds became orderable (P100Ds were available a few months earlier). No referral code to my knowledge as I didn't supply one unless Tesla sales entered something in I am unaware of.

Tesla had removed general availability of FUSC. I was in the first "FUSC is back" promotion.




rxlawdude | 2019年7月28日

@cmichael, that's right- after real, transferable FUSC went bye-bye in early 2017, subsequent offerings for "FUSC-" (non-transferable, but unlimited for the current owner) happened a few times. The terms you list are exactly that type.

jackyen | 2019年12月8日

so....if i buy a pre-own Tesla from dealer or Tesla there's no free supercharge? but if I buy from a private seller it will have supercharge?

Silver2K | 2019年12月8日

Free supercharging on pre-owned tesla s and x purchased from tesla has been restored

Silver2K | 2019年12月8日

An example

Some may not have free supercharging, for example a 60 or 60D

rxlawdude | 2019年12月9日

@Silver, every pre-owned that I checked does NOT say Unlimited Supercharging. Including 75Ds and 85Ds from all years.

Dunno about your unicorn. :-)

egonzo21 | 2019年12月9日

Looks like maybe only 90's and above have free supercharging.