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2013 S60 energy usage is quite high nowadays

2013 S60 energy usage is quite high nowadays

I feel the energy usage in my 6.5 year old car is up 30-40% more than it used to.

I have extensively driven this car and thus feel somewhat confident that I know it’s characteristics in all kinds of weather and terrain.

Question is, how do I prove this to Tesla service! Is there any app I can use?

Bighorn | 2019年7月27日

Wh/m?

murraypetera | 2019年7月27日

Tire pressure and tread.
I have a 60 with 130k+ and usage is same as before. Life ave about 300. I would have to confirm. Last 4K avg 290 ish.

RedShift | 2019年7月27日

Wh/mi is around 315 nowadays. I have lightweight wheels which should help a bit in slow driving.

I used to see 285-265 in 84F weather, like today.

Took a 22 mile round trip. Car lost 32 miles. Very conservative driving. 72F cabin temp.

RedShift | 2019年7月27日

Since it’s not my primary car, my wife drives it mostly and she’s basically a grandma. She was complaining the car seemed to be losing too many miles. Decided to check it out myself today.

RedShift | 2019年7月27日

Tires are all 6 months old Pirelli Cinturato LRRs.

RedShift | 2019年7月27日

42 Psi

Bighorn | 2019年7月27日

Check your rotor temps for a binding caliper. Prefer an IR thermometer though you can do it by feel if you’re careful not to get burned. It’ll also be messy because of extra brake dust.

RedShift | 2019年7月27日

Huh. I will do that next time after a trip. Thanks BH.

murraypetera | 2019年7月28日

42psi seems low. I run at 46-48psi. All my Tires have been rated at 50.

I also run ac at 68 so the dogs in the back stay cool.

Bighorn | 2019年7月28日

50 is max for the tire Teslas have run from 38 to 45 for the most part. 42 is pretty average.

RedShift | 2019年7月28日

Okay, I had the drivers side front brake rotor noticeably warmer than the rest after a 20 minute drive. However, a long drive today caused the energy consumption to hover around 290 wh/mi. It could have just been the numerous short drives wife has been undertaking recently, who knows.

However, I’m going to check up on the rotor soon, I have to schedule a tire dismount and removal of the foam I had installed inside. (They are causing some subtle vibrations at high speed). I will have the mechanics check the brake pad.

SamO | 2019年7月28日

Bighorn strikes again.

barrykmd | 2019年7月29日

Could also be front end alignment.

Mathew98 | 2019年7月29日

Hmmm, just make sure your Tesla wasn't used erratically or erotically in a recent p@rnhub video, so I've heard...

Bighorn | 2019年7月29日

@RS
Binding can be intermittent. Also listen for it. I had about 1000 miles of one front caliper binding on a trip across the desert SW. Pulled into a Phoenix service center and of course it had come free.

RedShift | 2019年7月29日

@BH

There have been no other telltale sign of brake binding other than the warmer front brake. No pulling to one side when braking. No loss of power that is apparent.

I need to perform one more test today : a medium size drive on freeway that involves no braking, and then come to a stop hopefully using the brakes only once to stop. If the brake was binding, the suspect rotor should be burning hot.

No sounds from the brakes either indicating intermittent binding. I have added a lot of sound deadening and the parking brake setting doesn’t register at all in my S, but my 3 it is very clear.

Will update.

Bighorn | 2019年7月29日

The way I knew it was binding was by the slight squeal in low speed driving. No pulling, no loss of power. Saw more brake dust, but it wasn't a measurable loss of pad thickness after 1000 miles. When it eventually bound for good when the pistons froze, it wore the pad down to the metal warning striker. With intermittent binding, you can see different temperature results each time.

Bighorn | 2019年7月29日

Watching your efficiency numbers suffer would hopefully provide a correlation to when it bound, if that is indeed your issue.

RedShift | 2019年7月29日

Experiment finished. Half an hour of braking-free freeway driving and coming to a dead stop at an exit without braking!

No significant temp increase.

When I do use brakes, the drivers side front grabs stronger, that’s my conclusion.

Anyways, this is what I’m noticing: the wh/mi is very high, at 450-500 on startup (normal, I think) and then settles down. This I attribute to battery warming up.

Today’s drive was different: first leg was half an hour of freeway driving as mentioned above. Came to dead stop and used parking brake to stop, touched all rotors, etc.

Started another leg of 20 minutes of driving. As soon as I started driving the wh/mi went to 450 again!? Battery would have been kinda warm due to the earlier driving?

Then I calculated the miles lost. I lost 5 miles in 22 miles of driving with average wh/mi for the two segments bring 295.

Top speed was 67, I drove very very gently. Outside was 74F and inside was 74F with me as the sole passenger.

The startup energy expenditure seems off, but I’m not sure.

Sigh. Since this is a 60 kWh these small things add up quickly for my wife who does multiple pick ups and drop offs of our kids.

RedShift | 2019年7月29日

Mystery is solved - it’s the long ‘settle down period’. I drove car again for 30 minutes and wh/mi was 250. In line with a warmed battery. The whole journey was also revised and settled to 260. Miles lost is zero.

Thanks BH, but this was a false alarm.

Bighorn | 2019年7月29日

Glad you figured it out!

TeslaTap.com | 2019年7月29日

@Red - good to hear it's not an issue. Still 250 W/h is great. My lifetime average over 4 years on my S60 RWD (now sold), was 327 W/m. This is in the Bay area, which has few temperature extremes.

SamO | 2019年7月29日

My 92,000 miles on S60 was 300. But I could drive locally in SoCal at 264Wh/m under 70mph.

RedShift | 2019年7月29日

Thanks guys. I can always count on expert advise here.

@TT that’s why it’s really hard for me to let go of the 60. It performs well, 4 months ago charged to 200, and it’s so quiet compared to my 3 (which hasn’t had the sound deafening treatment yet). It’s a luxurious and quiet, big car.

This is how you know Tesla makes a good product.

RedShift | 2019年7月29日

*Deadening

Renzo | 2019年7月30日

I have a 2013 Model S (under 8K vin number!) that I bought in December of last year from Tesla it had about 63K miles. When I first got it I charged to 100% to make the drive back home (I live in South Florida and picked it up in Orlando) and I was newbie to driving an EV as now I know I could get away with 90% charging to make it to the fort drum supercharger. Anyways when I got it I am pretty sure 100% charged showed me about 200 miles or 198 miles which seemed great. I have been religiously charging to 80% for my daily commutes and recently I charged to 95% for a trip and noticed that the mileage showed as 176 miles. Seems like a big drop, and since then I am keeping a log, so we will see... I wish I would have been keeping a log since I got it (lesson learned). I wonder if the 1st charge showed 200 miles because it was being sold by Tesla so they like reset the computer when they refurbished it as they prepared it for sale? just sharing my experience..

Bighorn | 2019年7月30日

Renzo
Are you keeping the charge in a narrow range or fully exercising the battery? Calibration errors build with with the former approach.

TeslaTap.com | 2019年7月30日

@Renzo - BH nailed it. To get a real 100% you can't guestimate from a lower SOC. You have to discharge to below 20%, then charge to 100% and get the range value within an hour or two. This recalibrates the range estimator too. Not something that is really necessary, as you have the true battery capacity always available - just the range indicator may be off, and it will drift off downward over usage and time (as drifting upwards would be bad). I think I'd done the calibration maybe twice in 6 years (with two different cars). As you get comfortable with the car and range, it's becomes a non-issue.

Renzo | 2019年7月30日

Yeah, that is what I have read as I have done my research... BH, since from what I read you are a great resource for many, maybe you can help me with my dilemma. so I have about a 20ish mile drive to my job (40ish mile round trip). So after 2 days of driving to and from work I will be down to about 50 miles or so which will make it a little hairy to make the 3rd day of work commute, but what I am concerned with is leaving my car at my job's parking lot for 8+ hours with a SoC that is probably going to be around 15% or so... So I think I would be doing more harm than good... since I read that you do not want to leave your SoC at less than 20% for a prolonged period of time. so that is why I put more juice after the 2nd day, rather than deplete. but if you have more knowledge and report back that 15% SoC wont degrade battery for 8+ hours.. I can try that full battery cycle depletion for like a couple of weeks to see if I "regain" some miles... tell me what you think!

Renzo | 2019年7月30日

Thank you for your feedback @TeslaTap.com!

Bighorn | 2019年7月30日

@Renzo
Thanks. I don't think it's really necessary to go that low since it's just a recalibration and not changing any reality. Getting down to 50 miles or less is a pretty good use of range. That said, I wouldn't be too concerned about sitting at 15%. My car sat at 11% the other day when my wife returned from a trip at 5 am. The problem tends to be worse, I think, with folks who always stay between 60 and 80%, for instance. If you ever need service, you can have them assess the battery because there are occasions when reduced range represents an actual issue. I had a module go bad, but it was obvious since it happened while i was driving and I ran out of juice without warning--well 30 seconds of warning.
Or you could do what most of us do anyway and just take the long way home:)

Renzo | 2019年7月30日

I will def take the long way home a couple of times!

Renzo | 2019年7月31日

Hey Guys! so update.. I ran my battery to under 20 miles left in battery last night.. charged it to 100% this morning (184 miles on dashboard) drove to work (20 miles) and I got to work with 89% (164 miles). car has been sitting in parking lot for 5 hours, and my app currently tells me I have 83% left (6% loss of battery in 5 hours) I will report I have cabin overheat protection on, do not know if anyone else can report if cabin overheat results in that big of a drop in battery in 5 hours. I will keep logging info and reporting.

Bighorn | 2019年7月31日

1-2% per hour is not out of the ordinary if the AC is cycling

Renzo | 2019年7月31日

I figured, but its good to get confirmation @BH! this may be a side topic, but keeping cabin overheat protection on... Good trade off for the loss of power? I like the piece of mind of knowing the electronics in the cabin are not melting, but the idea of overheat protection is more psychological than actually helping the electronics of the car then it is def not working. any thoughts?

Bighorn | 2019年7月31日

I have it on, but when I see it running constantly, I try to mitigate by finding shade or getting the car into a garage. It only persists for 12 hours, so it’s not a long term parking solution to peace of mind over a hot cabin. “They” say the temperatures don’t matter to the electronics, but nobody would keep their cell phone in a 150 degree car, so I’m dubious.

Renzo | 2019年8月1日

I hear you there... I don't want to sound conspiracy theorist... but I think the infamous yellow bands around the screen from "un-proper curing of the adhesive" could have been caused/exacerbated by the constant extreme heat parked cars could be under day after day... maybe? so another update... I noticed that the battery dropped some miles overnight while in the garage.. I didnt charge it, now im at work left home with 120 miles, currently at work with 100 miles in the battery capacity tank which is %54. I am in my office now but if memory serves me correctly I was around 270-275 Wh/mile for last 30 miles average.

Renzo | 2019年8月1日

I hear you there... I don't want to sound conspiracy theorist... but I think the infamous yellow bands around the screen from "un-proper curing of the adhesive" could have been caused/exacerbated by the constant extreme heat parked cars could be under day after day... maybe? so another update... I noticed that the battery dropped some miles overnight while in the garage.. I didnt charge it, now im at work left home with 120 miles, currently at work with 100 miles in the battery capacity tank which is %54. I am in my office now but if memory serves me correctly I was around 270-275 Wh/mile for last 30 miles average.

Renzo | 2019年8月2日

Update question: @teslaTap I was re-reading your post and you suggested charging to 100% and then getting a reading within 2 hours. Did you mean leaving the car at a SoC for 2 hours @ 100% and then getting a reading? because I am fearful of degrading the battery by leaving it at 100%, so I charged to 100% and as soon as it said charging complete, I unplugged and drove to work so it was not at 100% for very long, maybe 10-15 minutes...

Bighorn | 2019年8月2日

Probably meant to get a reading before any significant vampire drain.

Renzo | 2019年8月2日

@BH... so any thoughts on leaving a 60 KwH at 100% SoC for 2 hours time? any potential damage there?

Bighorn | 2019年8月2日

No worries. But there’s no reason to sit at 100 beyond the charge completion, though it will be balancing near that level for quite a while.

Renzo | 2019年8月5日

I charged 10 100%, then went down 11%, got the following "since last charge" 134.2 miles / 36kWh Used / 269 Wh/mi

the 11% said equated to 21 miles... so if I believe that, it means that the car has 155 miles.... which is a 15% degradation... but I think you need to have 30% to be able to claim warranty issue on the battery.

Renzo | 2019年8月5日

I Charged TO* 100%

Bighorn | 2019年8月5日

In one uninterrupted trip?

Renzo | 2019年8月5日

No no.. I have a trip to Orlando from fort Lauderdale 2 1/2 weeks... That will be as uninterrupted as you can get that was over the course of 2 days.

Bighorn | 2019年8月5日

Math won’t work with the wrong methods. Do one non stop to get a more accurate capacity figure.

Renzo | 2019年8月5日

Non-stop!!!??? LoL man... I guess we will have to wait till the 22nd when I drive 200+ miles... I will update you guys then for sure!

Bighorn | 2019年8月5日

Pretty much.
My wife and I just did 2120 miles in 56 hours night before last.

Renzo | 2019年8月7日

Okay, so.. in two weeks I am driving from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando for a conference which is the drive I will use to gauge the range/degradation of the battery... so I am starting to plan out my trip... and I am looking at 2 options.. I welcome feedback/comments on this:

Total distance that I need to cover from my home to the hotel where the conference will take place: 203 miles along Florida Turpike, or 224 miles "the long way" via I-95 and other roads

If I take Turnpike:
123 miles to the rest stop on the turnpike that has superchargers, then 80 miles to Hotel
202 miles to the Orlando Supercharger in Celebration, FL (I think WAAYYY too risky?) then about 8 miles to Hotel

If I take I-95:
144 Miles to Melbourne Supercharger, then 80 miles to Hotel.

Does anyone think those extra 20 miles will make a significant difference in allowing the car to properly recalibrate its mileage range? if the consensus is I should drive as many miles as possible, then I will do the I-95 route.. I will just have to double check whats around since I live the turnpike rest stop better because there are 24/7 bathrooms and some food options, etc.

Thanks again for any input!

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