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X still better than the FF91

X still better than the FF91

Just watched the Faraday's Future SUV liver CES show (was way too long), and I have no doubt that the Model X is still the king of SUV's
They can try, but Tesla is way ahead of the game.
Only impressive part in my opinion is that the range is close to 480 miles on the battery, but Tesla will get there. Sure it claims to be a little faster, but how much faster do we quicker do we need to go?

If interested, can watch on youtube

WSE51 | 2017年1月3日

I think they said 378 miles EPA adjusted. Given that it is a 130 kWH battery pack, i.e. 30% more than the P100D, you'd think they could have achieved more. And shaving .01 second off Tesla's 0-60 time is trivial. Most importantly, the speech was all above where FF91 will be, once it is released, allegedly in 2018 (think Dec 2018 nearly two years from today). He was comparing it to where Tesla was in Dec 2016.... give Tesla two more years of improvements and then you'll have a fair comparison.

No doubt that Tesla will face serious competition in the next 3-5 years as the major automakers finally get serious about quality EV's. But to really match Tesla they are also going to have to create their own supercharger network, and develop a viable response to Tesla's advantage of no dealers and Service Centers who don't exist to make profits for the dealership

WSE51 | 2017年1月3日

oops -- forgot to add a link to Techcrunch review of FF91 launch event -- https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/03/here-is-faraday-futures-first-producti...

mercc3650 | 2017年1月4日

@WSE51
Good points. Thanks for the correction about the range.
Agree with you completely

liudmd | 2017年1月4日

please also check out the new EV company---LUCID, they claim the range of 400 miles. the headquarter also locate in Freemont ,CA. any connection between this new company and Tesla?

jRoGville | 2017年1月4日

What saddened me about this presentation is that they were touting where Tesla was back in the Roadster days, except this seams like it will be a $200,000+ vehicle. Tesla is working on producing affordable electrics, and these people are back whenever it was producing a super expensive car. I don't know if another bootstrapped startup is going to be able to challenge Tesla now. I think that age is gone, and while there were a few interesting things about the FF91, there really wasn't much there. I think Tesla will need to be challenged by the big establishmnet automakers.

carlk | 2017年1月4日

Of course X is the king of SUV. FF91 is as real a car as the millions I'm going to win on my next trip to Vegas.

carlk | 2017年1月4日

Those new (and old) companies copied the concept and core design of Tesla. Some even hired ex-Tesla people to do it but they still could not get anywhere. This only attested just how difficult the task is and how much Tesla has accomplished.

On the other hand any of them, which is all of them, that do not put serious efforts on battery production and fast charging infrastructures are only about hype and not serious. This easily separates men from boys.

EternalChampion | 2017年1月4日

The fact that this start-up is hemorrhaging the dubious talent they've acquired, and can't seemingly pay their bills leads one to believe that they are selling some serious snake oil.

These "me too" companies that don't bring any innovation or passion to the product they're developing are rarely successful. There are certainly companies out there that can monetize their facsimile products, but they usually go belly up quickly.

darlin | 2017年1月5日

Lucid and FF are both back by rich people from China. However, FF is 400 million in the hole. I doubt we ever see a car on the road from them.

Lucid is going to get to production, but, I doubt they sell many cars. How many families are going to drive around in what looks like a new Batmobile? It is more of a corvette/jag replacement, not a serious car for families.

mhkeyemd | 2017年1月5日

I think competition is always good. Let's see who wins...

PedanticOne | 2017年1月5日

The customer. The customer always wins.

lhanspal | 2017年1月5日

Competition is definitely good, not only for customers - but also will help Tesla by keeping them on their toes. Happy to upgrade my 90D to 130D when it becomes available... :-)

While the specs of FF91 seem impressive, what caught my attention was their self driving tech - 10 cameras, 12 ultrasonics, 13 radars (short/long range) + 3D LIDAR... really? 13 radars ??? And a 3D LIDAR?? What is this? AP5.0?? ... :-)

inconel | 2017年1月6日

I am sure the rhino horn will get smaller and become discrete in subsequent models

jRoGville | 2017年1月6日

lhanspal, that tech is impressive, but is probably adding $50 to $60k to the price of the car. The real questions is what we will see out of production. I hope they make it that far.

elguapo | 2017年1月7日

Competition is great and I hope they make it to production. While many parts copy TM a bit, others a helpful advances, like the rear wheel steering. I think they went overboard on the sensors, but let's see what they can do.

Love my AP 1 X still.

dlake | 2017年1月7日

Doesn't anyone think the FF91 looks much better than the MX? Kind of Range Rover Evoque-ish?

PedanticOne | 2017年1月7日

Much better? No. I do get the Evoque-like thing though, but I (so far) don't like it. But, sometimes we come to like a new/crazy design over time, so I reserve the right to change my mind :-)

keillorkjstudio | 2017年1月7日

Completely agree with everything & said it all makes sense and they are completely right!, this helps me collect my thoughts about the newest competition in the electric business.

jRoGville | 2017年1月7日

The FF91 looks ok, but it doesn't look like an SUV to me, more like a tall sedan. I expect an SUV to have taller windows. Probably just my thing.

lhanspal | 2017年1月7日

@jRoGville - I dont think the self driving tech adds $50-60K ... the most expensive unit is the 3D LIDAR - and that will be in the $1000-1500 range. The rest of the stuff - cameras are dirt cheap... when built in high volumes - they are probably no more than $10/camera... even radar units are dropping considerably and supposed to be in double digits.

But the long pole will be the software - just like Tesla... and of course the rest of the car... :-)... Wonder if they can crank it out by 2018... and the battery is the biggest cost factor ... so, technically a 130D should be closer to $200K. Would be interesting to see what price points they get it out at...

jRoGville | 2017年1月7日

lhanspal, I thought Elon Musk's big problem with LIDAR was that it costs too much?

inconel | 2017年1月8日

I am not sure how accurate this video is, but FF does seem to have many issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA18oyyG-xg&t=147s

inconel | 2017年1月8日

link to start from the beginning of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA18oyyG-xg

lhanspal | 2017年1月8日

@jRoGville - I believe when Google began using LIDAR around 2012 - it was more like $80K... though, it's been dropping regularly as volumes ramp. But if you do a quick google search with "3D LIDAR Price" - you will start to see prices are in the $1K-$2K range... I have no idea what it will cost FF, but I would say that the total cost of all those components on the FF91 is probably not more than $3-4K. And that's a conservative number...

Tesla's costs for AP2.0 - especially, if you realize this hardware is on Model 3 - is probably not more than $2K.

Remember - these are just costs of components - you have to factor in labor costs of installing these as well... but that's a separate issue, and will likely vary based on how they production facilities are... robotic/manual, US/China, etc., etc.

elguapo | 2017年1月9日

How about time and cost to create production line, processes, robots, etc? Many of us can remember how long it took Tesla to build that up. Considering the FF factory isn't built yet, I think 2018 is aggressive. I hope I am wrong though.