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Charge/distance question

Charge/distance question

I will be taking delivery of my P90DX in less than two weeks(!). I've read a lot about charging and how driving style and habits affect range. Well, last weekend, I drove home from Tahoe in my Jeep (about 100 miles). On a full charge, I would expect this to be no problem. However, this was a snowy holiday weekend and my usual hour-45-min drive turned out to be 6-hours, due to hideous traffic impaction, chain install/deinstall stations, minor accident bottlenecks, etc. My question: even though the distance is well within the range, would I be simply out of luck if I attempted to crawl 100-miles over a 6-hr period? For the sake of the question, presume that there are no charging opportunities, en route.

Thanks!

poloX | 2017年1月6日

Real good question RealToast. Here is what I have to share. I drive to and from work for about 45 min each way, 1.5 hours total. Tempt outside was 58F and I set the tempt inside my car at 68F. Compared the totally miles I had available at the beginning of the day to what I actually had driven at the end of the day, I lost 20 miles. And I am driving conservatively. That said, based on my environment and my driving behavior, you would lose 80 miles solely for the 6 hours period. You would have 200 miles MAX left. But from where you are, you would need to spend more energy on your heater AND the battery would loss some juice due to the cold. That said, for your P90D, I think you will be able to make that 100 mile stretch even in 6 hours with the remaining 100 mies used for the heater and reduced battery juice...? I don't have the factual data on how much energy you would lose in the colder weather but would guess you might be able to do it.

poloX | 2017年1月6日

Oh, I may even add that it is a bit colder today. 38F out. I lost 30 miles today in 1.5 hrs RT. That would be 120 miles in 6 hrs. a tiny bit more accurate data point for you than the answer above. But I set my car to only 65F today. Yes, seat heater was on both days on level 1 only though.

Congrats BTW

campusden | 2017年1月6日

Good luck getting chains. Seems to be out of stock on Tesla’s website. The clearance between the tires and suspension is very narrow compared to a Jeep. The range should not be a problem. Have plugshare APP on your phone and get a chargepoint account. Don't leave your TMC at home.

poloX | 2017年1月6日

Campusden, read the OP's last sentence.

RealToast | 2017年1月6日

Thanks for the quick responses. Until I get my math down like PoloX, I'd probably just turn back to Tahoe, hunker down and watch traffic and head back late, after traffic loosens up. I would be in no mood to learn a tough math lesson in the snow and traffic!

campusden | 2017年1月6日

Polo, I think he wants to make it a round trip on a full charge. Ie, ski all day and return home later same day. My understanding of his last line is the actual travel from Tahoe to his home which must not have a supercharger on the route. I haven't been to Lake Tahoe in 28 years. The choice between one ski resort and another might come down to charging availability while sking.

burdogg | 2017年1月6日

campusden - This would be interesting for some more advance users :) But my understanding too though - if you are slowly putting along - you will actually save miles. The higher your speed, the more wh/mi you use and the more wh/mi you use, the lest miles you actually get. So if you are going 25 mph for a long trip, you will get a lot more miles then even they say you will. Look up the record miles for a tesla on a single charge. They do it by going slower. Less wind resistance, less energy needed to keep you up at higher speeds.

Again, I am no expert but that is the understanding and would love to hear others confirm or deny what I shared. :)

nicolas007 | 2017年1月6日

I would think that you would be OK, particularly because it's mostly downhill.

Starlifter | 2017年1月7日

still new to Teslas - but is there any graphic/info available that shows the draw being placed on the batteries other than the typical driving depiction? in other words, it would be fantastic to be sitting in traffic with a schematic of the charge draw - flip on the seat heat and see what effect it has. If I have a 90kwh battery and running the heated steering wheel and driver seats costs me X amount per hour, it would be awesome to be able to see what that amount is so I could do the math.

elguapo | 2017年1月7日

How are you taking delivery of a P90D now? Didn't they stop offering them months ago when P100D was introduced?

elguapo | 2017年1月7日

I should note I realize there's a waiting period, but even if you ordered 3 months ago, I though P90D was dead then.

poloX | 2017年1月7日

@Starlifter, there is a total number of range left but like it said, some will be used for the accessories and electronics. If you used gps, then there is projected info...how much energy left, in miles or %of charge left upon arrival. Again, the projection does not take into consideration of the electronics and assessories uses. I have only observed this for a few days. Need others to confirm. If I am right, think this could be a small adjustment in the projection eqaltion that Tesla can make

poloX | 2017年1月7日

@Starlifter, there is a total number of range left but like it said, some will be used for the accessories and electronics. If you used gps, then there is projected info...how much energy left, in miles or %of charge left upon arrival. Again, the projection does not take into consideration of the electronics and assessories uses. I have only observed this for a few days. Need others to confirm. If I am right, think this could be a small adjustment in the projection eqaltion that Tesla can make

zanegler | 2017年1月7日

You didn't say which direction you were travelling nor what Hwy, but here is my input. When I return from Tahoe via Hwy 50 towards Sacramento, I actually gain range due to the fact that it is downhill and regen. Last time I left Tahoe I started with 88 miles of range and traveled approximately 60 miles to Placerville and had 95 miles of range. There was no real traffic to speak of so your scenario is different due to speed and time. Tesla's use very little energy at crawl speed so while you would not get as much back on regen, you also would not consume much. I am nearly certain you would have plenty of range for this trip.

Now if you were going up the hill, the equation changes, but again because you would be going slow, you would probably be fine.

In my experience, the biggest impacts to range are speed, acceleration, and altitude gain or loss.

Solarman004 | 2017年1月7日

@Starlifter, you can get much of the info you're looking for in this article:
http://insideevs.com/energy-consumption-of-various-tesla-heating-features/

Leeo | 2017年1月7日

I don't think you can put chains on the front. My P 100 D with 20 inch wheels has only 1/2" of clearance between the tire and the steering knuckle

Teslapalooza | 2017年1月7日

Does it take much more wh/mile to drive in city streets than when driving on Highway with speeds between 70-75 mph? At least that is my perception so far.

My car battery indicates 202 miles remaining at the moment, but the graph says I only have 174 miles projected. That is about 30 miles less than what the battery level shows.

burdogg | 2017年1月7日

ramsheshan2001 - remember your graph is going off of just your last 30 miles driven if that is what you have it set to. So it is not indicative of necessarily what the future holds. It is just if you kept driving exactly like you did the lat 30 miles, this is what you can expect ;)

All kinds of things affect that - is that 30 miles, done in on one trip, or is it 10 - 3 mile trips :0 Short trips in winter are killer, as the battery never gets to warm up and so energy is always being drawn to heat up the battery. Higher speed with hit you too though - 70-75 mph will cut your expected range down, as the rated range is based on a wh/mi of around 315 or so, (I do not know that exact number yet, I drive my S, my wife has been driving the X and they are different). There is a solid line on the graph above 300, that line is what the wh/mi you need to average to get your rated range. Anything average above that will cut your miles, anything average below that will gain you miles :)

Does that help some? if not, what else are you looking for :) (and cold does have adverse effects. Taking delivery as winter hits is bad timing, but if you learn to manage in the winter, the spring/summer you are going to be super happy with all the excess :)

RealToast | 2017年1月7日

campusden, I stay in Tahoe and there's a supercharging station, right on W. Lake Blvd, near Bridgetender. I'd have a full charge before heading back.

burdogg, you make a good point! Once over the summit, it's mostly downhill. Putting along at 10-15 MPH, regen should make the trip stress free. I'd be surprised to have a net-gain after climbing to the summit, tho. But, still...

elguapo, I ordered the P90 right from here: https://www.tesla.com/modelx/design. Still available. It may be the P60 you're thinking of.

Teslapalooza | 2017年1月7日

Yes @burdogg, that makes a lot of sense. My trips are indeed short 3 to 5 miles and 3 or 4 such trips a day. The temperature where I live is in the low forties. So, like you say, I am probably using up a lot of energy for heating up the battery. That also explains why I was seeing a better wh/mile when I did a few 120 mile trips.

poloX | 2017年1月8日

Heating or cooling, between summer and winter, which one spends more energy (not for range)?
Thanks

poloX | 2017年1月8日

Heating or cooling, between summer and winter, which one spends more energy (not for range)?
Thanks

Teslapalooza | 2017年1月8日

While I let one f the more well informed ones to answer @poloX's question, let me plug in a joke here ...

Question: Do you know which is faster - hot or cold?

Think Think Think........

And the answer is ....

Hot is faster, because you can catch a cold :-)

RealToast | 2017年2月27日

As a follow up to my OP, I made the trip this last weekend (about a 250 mile round trip, up and over Donner Pass and back). I'm happy to say, any concern of range issues was settled. Not surprisingly, I had my eyes glued to the battery indicator and consumption graph the entire trip up.

I started with a full charge (257 Miles). It was not too cold, about 48-degrees outside at elevation. But I watched the indicator spin backward as I climbed from sea level to the summit at around 7,800' (over approx 90 miles). By the time I reached the planned waypoint in Truckee, my battery indicator showed about 115 miles remaining (still had about 30 real miles to go, but plenty of juice left).

There is a supercharger in Truckee that I took advantage of. In less than 30-mins (while still in the grocery store) I received a notification that my charge was complete. Being my first time to a supercharger, I was actually startled how quick it was, given that I was still in the midst of gathering groceries for the trip.

The trip home was a different story. As someone indicated in their post for much of the largely downhill ride home the battery indicator didn't change, at all. In fact, at a couple points I actually gained a couple miles. Started at 256 and showed 189 when I arrived home. Most of the expense was getting to the top of the summit on the way back.

I cannot tell you how much that experience at the grocery store has completely assuaged my concerns about long, segmented trips. With just a modicum of forethought, it was very easy to plan my charge stop around something I had to do anyway: get groceries for the weekend. The 5-secs it took me to plug the car in while I did this was obviously effortless. Having the charge completed before I was even done with shopping was amazing to me. It also meant getting to our home in Tahoe with nearly a full charge meant I had zero concerns about 100% mobility when I got to the house (in a comparatively remote area subject to power outages this time of year). The charge-free downhill drive home was a cherry on top.

Still grinning.

Saxman | 2017年2月27日

Real Toast

Nothing beats experience in various conditions to assuage Range Anxiety. Glad you had a good experience.

I had a similar but a little stressful experience this past Friday picking up my wife from the Denver Airport.

I left our home for the 131 mile trip with a 237 mile full charge. I arrived at the Airport Supercharger with 98 range miles remaining. Even though the temperature was between 15-25*, I was pleased that my range loss was relatively low, considering all the elevation gain then loss.

However, the return trip a few hours later was quite different. I left the airport with 200 range miles thinking I had plenty to get home. Fridays heading to the Mountains from Denver has bumper-bumper traffic in many areas, so my speed was quite slow. The temperature was about the same until the foothills heading up to Eisenhower tunnels. When I got to those tunnels, the actual mileage to my home is about 60 miles, BUT the RANGE MILES showed negative 2 miles.

Fortunately I knew I would be regenerating there, as well as down the Vail Pass. The snow and wind really kicked up so I needed to slow down between 40-50 mph. The good news is we made it home with 20 range miles, instead of running out of juice.

The driving time to the airport was a little over 2hrs. Driving time on the return was 4.5 hrs, due to heavy traffic and hazardous driving conditions.

aesculus | 2017年2月27日

The slower speed because of traffic probably helped but the longer travel time with heater on, snow and wind were probably your biggest setbacks. Winter travel in cold/snowy settings are a challenge for EVs. I had a similar event with a 180 mile trip with cold and heavy winds plus elevation. Got to my destination with 30 miles too, but for the first few hours, I was a little nervous.

Saxman | 2017年2月27日

aesculus

I hear you. I'm very good about using seat heater rather than climate control. However, I needed windshield defroster quite a bit, which automatically kicks in the climate climate.

RealToast | 2017年2月27日

Saxman - Entering tunnels, 60-miles from home, but showing negative miles = full-clench!

Saxman | 2017年2月28日

I actually miscommunicated the situation entering the tunnels. The GPS showed 60 miles to home. However I showed only 58 miles range. I calculated the negative 2 miles range in my head.

Knowing the Regen would work in my favor the rest of my trip, gave me the confidence to continue without looking to charge.

Nevertheless, I was still a little nervous, not to mention tired of driving in those conditions.