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M3's EAP improvement log - Updated for 2018.24.1

M3's EAP improvement log - Updated for 2018.24.1

Since the original issues with EAP no longer apply I will focus only on the changes noticed on EAP from the previous versions. The observations I make are baselined against past EAP performance along a test route.

Report for version 2018.24.1:

I started on a 300 mile solo road trip immediately after work today. I updated the software while I was at work, so I was totally focussed on recording the observations. I had 5 hours to observe the new build under challenging circumstances that include: crawling traffic, heavy rain, interchanges, exits, ideal conditions with perfectly straight roads, zero shoulder with a concrete barrier alongside, construction zones with multiple overlapping lane markings, lane changes at various speeds and different weather conditions.
And what a fantastic update this is - this is true EAP, it's truly enhanced over AP1

Without further ado here are my observations. They're in no particular order I was noting things down as I observed then - unvarnished first impressions:

- Does not slow for vehicles cutting in front of you at slow/crawl speeds.
- Lots of warning beeps when trucks are in the next lane - very unnerving. But side obstacle detection seems to be improved vastly.
- Seems more in control - quick deliberate corrections, like a well caffeinated human driver. I like it!
- Corrections are slightly jerky, but it gives you a sense that the car is reacting to the surroundings. Much more confidence inspiring than the previous gentler corrections.
- Excellent centering at low speeds, no low speed ping-ponging observed (unfortunately for me I had an opportunity to observe this for 12 miles and 1hr 25mins because of a crash) no ping-ponging observed at all. I suspect the side cameras are already active.
- The vehicle is able to focus on multiple vehicles. Typically I observe the vehicles that Tesla is focusing on as black cars, other vehicles as grey cars. Today I noticed 2 cars represented in black. That's confidence inspiring.
- Excellent lane detection in very poor visibility situations - even at 75mph on curves. It was pouring hard. Oddly the automatic wipers didn't activate much, still the system did fine detecting lanes.
- Lane changes are very good under ideal conditions. However car didn't like lane changes in the rain, it aborted the operation several times.
- The number of vehicles the car detects, and the accuracy has definitely improved. The car even displays vehicles that are slightly behind it. V21.x shows vehicles along side sometimes, but v24.1 shows vehicles alongside much more and vehicles slightly behind sometimes.

Overall experience felt like the car was on rails. I'm convinced that the side cameras are active, or that the car is using some kind of 'validated' routes to guide it better.

Fantastic update for EAP!

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Report for version 2018.21.9:
- The vehicles in adjacent lanes are showing on the screen.
- All vehicles are represented as cars. No support for showing Motorcycles/Trucks yet.
- Detection of vehicles in the adjacent lanes is inconsistent. Sometimes vehicles no not appear on the screen until they are almost in our lane, at other times the vehicles are detected when they are directly alongside.
- Car is decelerating to handle curves better. I noticed this on curved roads and exit ramps. However, sometimes the car decelerates too much and is presenting a risky situation from vehicles following the Model 3.
- The 'keep hands on the steering wheel nag' is not noticeably different with proper usage of Autopilot. I tested this extensively because several users complained of shortened nag intervals, test conditions included open freeway with minimal traffic, freeway with rush hour traffic, and stop and go traffic. To be clear on the way I use the system, I lightly grip the steering and let the movement of the steering tug my hold.
- Since the update I have not experience sudden braking on the highway. I strongly believe this update improved the handling of false positives. Unfortunately there is no good way to test this, at least not that I know of.
- Automatic lane changes are Ok - no significant changes since 2018.10.5 (2018.10.5 was a huge improvement for auto-lane change)
- Lane centering is very good - to a fault (More about this in additional comments section below).
- Side obstacle detection arcs have a bigger range of detection than before.

Additional comments:
Based on the improved capabilities of the system in 2018.21.9 I would like to see these features. I trust they'll come, but just hoping they're covered sooner than later.
- Car is reaching full speed in its lane when the adjacent lane is moving significantly slower. Since the adjacent lane detection is in place it would be nice for the car to assess the speed of the adjacent lane before zooming ahead. True TACC would be a welcome next step
- Car is centered on its lane, even when adjacent vehicles are dangerously encroaching on it. It would be nice if they utilized the data from the adjacent lane to position the car so that its less risky for everyone on the road

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EAP Changes for OTA Update 2018.18.13 (No significant changes since 2018.10.5)

=========
I noted 4 major issues with EAP In my original post several weeks ago, this was also 2 major software updates ago.
I'm happy to report all 4 of those areas have been improved remarkably.

The original issues, and my current observation are
1. Bouncing withing the lane - No longer an issue, centering within the lane is near perfect.
2. Abrupt lane changes - No longer an issue, lane changes are smooth now.
3. Veering away too much from vehicles in the next lane - Vast improvements noticed, still under observation
4. Veering away from the center at intersections - Vast improvements noticed, still under observation

Lane change observations - Very smooth lane changes , system is performing well in sparse to moderate traffic when there is wide spacing between cars in the adjacent lane. Lane change not recommended for heavy traffic conditions. NOTE: Lane change REQUIRES FULL DRIVER ATTENTION. The car cannot detect and account for fast approaching traffic in its surroundings.

Specific cases for observing EAP behavior are provided in a detailed post within the thread.

---Original post below, for historical reference only---
I have several thousands of miles of experience with AP1.0 on MS and MX and have just about 2200 miles with M3 EAP, I can definitely say that EAP features on M3 need improvement.

We know that the software will be adjusted over time, so please add your own experiences and constructive feedback.

Here are my experiences with EAP on Model 3.

Bouncing withing the lane: The car is not staying in the center of the lane, it tends to veer from one side of the lane to another. This is especially prominent when the road curves. The car 'toed' the lane markings a few times, more often than it happens on AP1.0. The car seems to be constantly overcorrecting steering input.

Abrupt lane changes: The car changes lanes much like an aggressive driver, it speeds up to give itself some room from the cars behind it and then inserts itself between the cars abruptly. Majority of the times the lane change is not smooth or confidence inspiring, and at times it is downright scary.

Veering away too much from vehicles in the next lane: The car detects vehicles in the next lane and veers away from them towards the edge of its own lane. This is desired behavior to avoid accidents, but at the moment I'm observing that it is happening too often and going too close to the edge of the lane - even when there is no danger of collision.

Veering away from the center at intersections: The car tries to find the edge of the road at intersections, and since there are no markings at intersections/divided highways etc the car veers towards the edge. This can be quite unnerving. I know this is NOT a scenario that EAP was designed for, but this is a use case where AP1.0 did a much better job.

Shock | 2018年2月5日

Based on your experience is it still valuable to have at this point or is it too much of a hassle and/or you perceive it as too dangerous to regularly use?

KP in NPT | 2018年2月5日

My understanding is EAP on any Tesla is still a work in progress. I didn’t think it had reached parity with AP1 yet.

ng0 | 2018年2月5日

I have about 15 minutes of Model 3 EAP experience, so take this with a grain of salt, but my experience is different in some ways, but in others, spot on.

From my experience, EAP works fantastic as a glorified adaptive cruise control. As long as you stay in a lane where no one is likely to merging onto the freeway, you just set it and really don't need to worry about anything. You mentioned bouncing between lanes, but here on San Diego freeways, where I feel the lanes are relatively large (compared to LA), I didn't see any bouncing at all. I was actually pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. Even on big curves in the freeway, it stayed in the lane perfectly and slowed down when it came up on slower cars too fast.

As for using EAP in the very right lane where cars were merging onto the freeway, I felt it was totally useless. Cars would be merging and without any action from me or the other driver, they would likely side swipe the car. As I understand it, many of the cameras aren't being used yet, for EAP, so this didn't surprise me at all.

For using EAP to merge into the next lane, this was the scariest thing ever. The first time I did it, there were no cars in the next lane and it moved over perfectly fine. Then when there were a few cars passing me, I tried to use it and EAP waited until one car passed, ok that was good, then another car was passing and the Model 3 just completely ignored it and almost smacked into the next car!

So yea, for now until the updates that Musk promised to come "soon", I would use EAP only for very specific things like sitting in a left lane and not moving around.

Shock | 2018年2月5日

"For using EAP to merge into the next lane, this was the scariest thing ever. The first time I did it, there were no cars in the next lane and it moved over perfectly fine. Then when there were a few cars passing me, I tried to use it and EAP waited until one car passed, ok that was good, then another car was passing and the Model 3 just completely ignored it and almost smacked into the next car!"

Holy crap. This is exactly how EAP worked with me last summer on an S I was test-driving. I turned on the indicator with EAP on and it refused to move because a car was there, then after that car went past it finally decided to change lanes, and in the process cut somebody off badly, requiring them to hit their brakes and their horn.

burdogg | 2018年2月5日

KP - my X is EAP and My S is AP 1.0 - between those two - they are very close to parity - with the differences being things like AP 1 can read speed limit signs, EAP still can't. But as far as the lane assist - my experience, they are on par. Others have had different experiences.

As far as the 3 though - I wonder if for some reason the different vehicle is needing more time with EAP for them to get it right? Seems weird because from the report above - that is where EAP was 6 months or longer ago for the X and S and for some time now, has been resolved and does just great. Interesting to know if there are just outlier cases as I know there are some on the X and S too, or if all 3's are exhibiting this same behavior.

weluvm3 | 2018年2月5日

I have advocated that Tesla provide an initial free trial period for EAP upon purchase. In the past, the lack of a free trial for something with an OTA activation seemed like a curious omission. Although I wasn't terribly impressed by EAP when I test drove a Model S, I assumed that was due to the short trial and my lack of familiarity with the car and EAP.

After reading the numerous reviews questioning the value and utility of EAP, in its current state and in light of the $5,000 price, it is becoming more clear to me WHY Tesla has so far declined to provide a free trial for EAP. Tesla is probably more aware than any of us about the issues and current lack of utility and poor value of this "feature."

I guess, when Tesla DOES decide to provide people with a free trial, that will be a signal to us that Tesla is finally confident that EAP is worth purchasing.

rxlawdude | 2018年2月5日

Funny, my experience with EAP on a 1200 mile road trip was it is at par with AP1, but lane changing is indeed more "spirited" in comparison.

The extreme variability of EAP/AP2 experiences is somewhat disheartening.

Shock | 2018年2月5日

"I have advocated that Tesla provide an initial free trial period for EAP upon purchase. "

Another idea is tesla could lease it to you on a monthly basis, like a cable subscription.

Bri | 2018年2月5日

@shock “This is exactly how EAP worked with me last summer on an S I was test-driving. I turned on the indicator with EAP on and it refused to move because a car was there, then after that car went past it finally decided to change lanes, and in the process cut somebody off badly, requiring them to hit their brakes and their horn.”

So it’s about on a par with the average driver around here.

shank15217 | 2018年2月5日

@rxlawdude The cars definitely goes through some "learning". The more you use it the better it gets IMO. I started noticing this around late November+ firmware. Also mainly complaints gets posted on the site.

vmulla | 2018年2月5日

Here my gripe, if AP2 is not up to par with AP1 or if it is still getting there, do not call it ENHANCED Auto Pilot. It is very misleading.

vmulla | 2018年2月5日

@Shock, Traffic Aware Cruise Control is part of the EAP package, and TACC works very well. So, the question is back to you - are you willing to pay 5K to enjoy the safety of TACC?
For my own part, I would not recommend 5K for the auto-steer/lane-changing features, they simply aren't ready for prime time yet.

lilbean | 2018年2月5日

Pilot refers to one who operates aircraft or ships.

ng0 | 2018年2月5日

Did they not call AP1 enhanced auto pilot? I thought EAP was just a generic name for any version of Auto pilot. Then there's specific version of auto pilot such as 1, 2, and 2.5.

vmulla | 2018年2月5日

Bottom line: Auto-steer, Auto lane changing and detection of stationary obstacles needs to be improved a lot. Until then I would only recommend the use of TACC.
I have documented the incidents that I felt were unacceptable EAP behavior by providing a description, time stamps and also used hazards to mark the incidents on the cars log.
Tesla service is receptive to feedback. Let's see how the system improves.

kzodz | 2018年2月5日

Of course it's enhanced. It has more sensors and Tesla programmed it themselves rather than relying on a company that actually has a proven track record doing this stuff.

scotteeboy71 | 2018年2月5日

I've noticed some strange things on my MS with AP. Th other day the car suddenly veered - almost into a center divider. Never done that before- definitely put me on my toes with the system.

Carl Thompson | 2018年2月5日

@ng0:
"Did they not call AP1 enhanced auto pilot? I thought EAP was just a generic name for any version of Auto pilot."

Nope. AP1 was just AutoPilot. With the new hardware (2.x) came the term Enhanced AutoPilot.

ng0 | 2018年2月5日

@vmulla That's fantastic that you keep such detailed notes of your incidents! Tesla really should pay you and provide you with release candidates of their autopilot software. I disagree with you though about using EAP. I think as long as you stay in a single lane, away from anyone that is merging onto the freeway, then EAP would work perfectly fine. Personally I just can't wait to enable it when I'm sitting in rush hour traffic and just sit there watching the road.

@Carl Thompson Thanks for the clarification. Definitely questionable whether it's currently "enhanced" but hopefully "soon" it really will be. Musk has promised in a tweet recently that a release candidate is ready and they should be releasing it soon. I hope that's true!

Webcrawler | 2018年2月5日

I did not get AP with my Model 3. I had driver a model S with AP1 a few time and knew it was not worth $5,000. I had to have the defective touch screen replaced in my Model 3 after one day of ownership. They gave me an almost new 100D loaner (1200 miles) and it had AP2. It was useless on curvy or hilly roads even with excellent lane marking. It freaked out at most side street intersections. It did ok on straight level highways but it is not something I would trust at this time. It is just a $5,00 geewiz show and tell feature at this point in my opinion. I also believe we are many decades away from full self driving. I think it will require a smart road system the interacts with the can.

phil | 2018年2月5日

Webcrawler | February 5, 2018 "I also believe we are many decades away from full self driving."

I could believe a decade or two. But technology progresses quickly these days. I'd bet we see some real self driving cars long before 3 decades.

vmulla | 2018年2月6日

I hear comments on the forum supporting EAP behavior as it stands, and I'm glad a few people are having a different experience than I am. But in my view EAP is the kind of feature where we need to pay more attention to the edge-cases and outliers.

hoffmannjames | 2018年2月6日

Phil wrote:"I could believe a decade or two. But technology progresses quickly these days. I'd bet we see some real self driving cars long before 3 decades."

--------

Waymo and Cruise have production ready Level 4 autonomous cars on public roads now. So the idea that we are still 30 years away is ridiculous. Level 5 autonomy is probably 5 years away.

Rthughes77 | 2018年2月6日

I don't know about everyone's else driving habits but I don't think it's worth the money for me, I rarely drive on freeways or interstate highways where at this time self driving works best,even when I do I rarely even use just the cruise control.
.
Most new vehicles have some sort of accident avoiding system which saved me a few times.

tesla | 2018年2月6日

Let's just be clear...

The current "killer app" for EAP is stop and go traffic on the freeway. So it's basically made for LA: freeways that might curve a little bit, where you are usually driving between 5 and 40 mph.

My commute to work has been absolutely transformed by EAP. I drive 9 miles each way on the 101 and I am much, much happier.

As others have pointed out, TACC is good all around. I use it a lot even on regular city streets because 90% of the time there is a car in front of me, so I rarely need to touch the brake for stop lights.

Autosteer on a curvy freeway at 70+ mph? It probably works but it makes me nervous.

Is it worth $5000? Impossible question to answer. Depends how much money you have and how much it bothers you to drive in stop and go traffic. For me it's definitely worth $1,000 a year for the much more pleasant commute amortized over the five years I'll own the car. (And maybe I get a little of that back when I sell.)

GAGSTESLA | 2018年2月6日

@tesla, I agree. I have a 45 mile each way commute down the 91 Freeway. I use EAP every chance I can and MOST of the time it's great. I too have had a couple of (small) issues that @ 70 mph puckered me up a bit. I am much more comfortable when it's engaged at the 5-60 mph range than at speeds higher than that. I do not use on city streets as I don't think it's ready for that quite yet. On the freeway, it is great and well worth it to me.

johnse | 2018年2月7日

@webcrawler “It was useless on curvy or hilly roads even with excellent lane marking. It freaked out at most side street intersections. It did ok on straight level highways...”

EAP is only meant to be used on hiways. That it doesn’t like intersections is kind of to be expected.

vmulla | 2018年2月7日

I'm reporting EAP observations on interstate highways, my observations are more pronounced on curved highways.
As far as EAP behavior at intersections is concerned, it is meant as a comparison between AP1 and EAP.
Also, FSD is coming, but EAP can't handle driving through intersections in a straight line? I understand incremental builds and that EAP/FSD are two separate product features, but surely they must have some relation to each other. It is hard to feel confident about FSD progress when EAP is behaving as it does.
Finally, I put in about 200 miles on MS100D EAP yesterday, it is marginally better than M3 EAP.
My personal takeaway: TACC is good, Be cautious with EAP, EAP auto-lane changing is not recommended.

SCCRENDO | 2018年2月7日

Like @GAGTESLA I do a similar commute in the opposite direction. I guess if we switched homes we both would have far shorter commutes. I use TACC, and autosteer plus let the car change lanes on my freeway commute which is 38 miles out of 42 each way. It makes the journey enjoyable even though I am not cheating by going into the car pool lanes until I get my stickers. You need to be alert and bale the system out occasionally but for the most part it is pretty flawless for me.

GAGSTESLA | 2018年2月7日

@SCCRENDO, pretty sure I saw your blue 3 going the other way today (not in car pool lane). The first I have seen in the wild after mine. Somewhere around La Sierra. I was lucky today, had a passenger so I was in the carpool lanes. I wonder how long it takes to get the stickers? Did you get your plates yet?

Bluesday Afternoon | 2018年2月7日

@GAGSTESLA & SCCRENDO

Still waiting to receive my plates and I took delivery on 12/30/17. I imagine the processing by Tesla and the DMV was delayed by the holidays. I did notice an improvement in EAP after the last OTA. Considerably less ping ponging in the lane.

GAGSTESLA | 2018年2月7日

@Bluesday, Hmm, I took delivery on 12/31/2017 and have had the plates for about two weeks now. I sent the paperwork to get the HOV stickers in right away, have not seen those yet. I noticed a huge improvement in my backup camera after the last update, not so much so in EAP yet.

SCCRENDO | 2018年2月7日

I took delivery 1/12/18 although my payment went through 1/9/18. I received my plates Saturday (2/3/18). I went to AAA on Monday (2/5/18) to swap out the plates for my vanity plates. I mailed my paperwork first thing Tuesday (2/6/18). My stickers were peeling on my Model S so I applied for new ones beginning Nov last year. I called them up when I heard nothing. They don’t look at it for 30-45 days. Then they arrive soon afterwards. When I got my Model 3 my wife took over my Model S and didn’t like my vanity plates. So I went to the AAA on 1/15//2018 and got her generic plates. I had to change her carpool stickers to match the plates and I sent off her application the next day. We are still waiting. But she is driving around with the carpool stickers still on and has the paperwork to show the plates were changed and that she is waiting for the new stickers.

@GAGTESLA. I was at La Sierra around 7:45 AM. I have not seen any other Model 3s on my side of the Freeway. You should have honked,

vmulla | 2018年2月8日

Here's a question for other M3 owners. Does your car differentiate between cars, trucks and motorcycles? I don't remember seeing a truck or a motorcycle icon on the EAP interface in the last few days. Please let us know.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

vmulla - No it does not - on any of the Tesla's yet...or I assume they will eventually add this like AP 1.0 has.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

On any of the Teslas - meaning EAP Teslas :)

SCCRENDO | 2018年2月8日

I wonder about motorcycles. These guys are pretty treacherous as the split lanes between the HOV and the next lane. They come flying up from behind and expect to be noticed. In my Model S they have hit my side mirror at least 3 time snapping it back. No damage so far but it is difficult commuting without being able to use the right side mirror. I hear they will be banned from doing this but only from next January.

vmulla | 2018年2月8日

I didn't notice cars being detected in the adjacent lanes either. Is that a feature that needs to be added into the EAP suite as well?

SCCRENDO | 2018年2月8日

It shows semi-circles. But is generic to trucks, cars, motorcycles and even barriers. The closer the object the different the color. I believe it goes white, yellow then red

Bluesday Afternoon | 2018年2月8日

The current system in the Model 3 does not show cars/vehicles in the lanes next to you. I had a motorcycle switch lanes in front of me today and the system recognize it as a car. I did see the side semi-circles but it's too little, too late.

vmulla | 2018年2月8日

I always understood semi-circles as an indication of the ultrasonic sensors detecting something in the proximity. They just tell you something is there next to you, and give you a sense of the distance with color coding.
Positive ID of vehicle types is done by the radar/camera and is limited to the forward arc of the cars forward sensors. (I'm no expert, please correct me if I'm wrong)
AP1 definitely ids the vehicles in the adjacent lanes if they are within the vehicles forward field of 'vision'.
I feel confident about the system when I see these representations on the screen, hopefully EAP will include these features soon.

rxlawdude | 2018年2月8日

@Bluesday, it is interesting that the updates to AP2/AP2.5 are happening at a snail's pace. When I drive the 3, the lack of icons for vehicles in adjacent lanes is missed.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

Yes, they are missing and have been since release over a year ago :) Now you may understand some of the issues and frustrations many went through when they bought their S and X over a year ago, and started complaining that it is not what they paid for...

Of course, I didn't complain, fought actually against the complaints, but it got pretty bad for awhile there. Sounds like the 3 is kind of starting over again, from some of your reports, as they don't seem to match what my current EAP X experience is. But yes, all you get is a car in front of you, nothing to your sides, and it will always be a car, regardless if it is a semi or motorcycle.

Also, it does not read speed limit signs, it is all off GPS, which is inaccurate at times - I would really rather have the reading speed limit signs as opposed to cars in the next lane :)

WantMY | 2018年2月8日

Somehow, I think folks who admire EAP are could be easily excited simply by being a passenger and let someone else to do the driving. If grand moms and dads could drive cars, you can do it too. It is not like you need to shift gears and dance on the clutch this days. Keep 5K/8K in your pocket or invest instead.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

WantM3 - I would gladly pay $5,000 for it again - Not trying to say everyone should get it, to each their own - but my personal experience with family vacation - heaven send.

Also, I don't experience this as I don't live in stop and go traffic - but talk to anyone who has it and uses it on their commute in LA or SF etc... and they say they are way less stressed by the time they get to the office. I used it once in stop and go traffic in Denver - took 1.5 hours to get from one end to the next when normally it takes 30 min max. I just chilled and let AP do its thing, didn't have to worry about staying in my lane, and didn't have to worry about slamming on my brakes.

So get what you are saying, but sometimes you don't have the option of being a passenger.

vmulla | 2018年2月8日

@burdogg, you fought against the complaints? I'm curious, what was your stance? If people paid for a certain feature, what's wrong in expecting the feature?
In my case, I've experienced AP1 and expected EAP to be better - it was a naive expectation in retrospect, but I think it's reasonable too.
As a Tesla believer, I trust things will get better over time, isn't that what makes Tesla special? However, I'm also disappointed that we have a wait ahead of us.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

Too long ago to remember - fight is the wrong word, but tried to add perspective to it. The issue was if you didn't follow was that Tesla got dumped and tried to redo the whole system. They informed at the time of buying that it wouldn't roll out until end of Dec or so, yet people jumped on as soon as they took delivery early December slamming bait and switch and that their car doesn't have AP - even though right in the details at time of ordering it said it wouldn't.

But then Tesla did take longer than they said (go figure) and that then starting creating turmoil. So from there, I don't remember what complaints started, or what was going on. Anyway, you can probably find it all - if you choose to go read the whole history on the double posted thread between the X and S forum that is forever long.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

dang, I just went and looked at the thread - it got flagged away so many times, that we lost all the history to it, so the first post date is now June 5, 2017, way past all the history of what happened early on. But the biggest issue were those claiming Tesla lied to them, or bait and switched, even though it was well spelled out in the box that you checked that it was not ready.

burdogg | 2018年2月8日

Kind of like I paid for FSD and don't have it yet...but I knew full well thanks to the disclaimer that it was yet to be developed :)

So just because I pay for a feature, doesn't mean I get it right away and they were very upfront on that. But then again, after they missed their deadline for when they said they would have it, sure, you can complain all you want, just don't see it doing any good - kind of like around here right now with the production push back.

GAGSTESLA | 2018年2月8日

Anybody else have this issue? Lane keeping worked fine all the way to work today, would not come on at all on the way home. Even the icon was off. Smart cruise worked, no lane keeping.

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