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"I expected a new car has trouble free for few years, not less than a month."

"I expected a new car has trouble free for few years, not less than a month."

Another person posted this on the forum about the dash rebooting often in his brand new car.

"I expected a new car has trouble free for few years, not less than a month."

This was my response:

That is usually true for mechanical devices. However that is often not the case with digital electronic devices. If there is an electrical or software glitch it will show up within the first month. This is very surprising to a first time Tesla owner. We were all use to thinking about our cars as be only a mechanical device with only a few electrical parts. Actually Tesla's are mostly a digital electrical device. The old expectations do not hold true any more. Fortunately they are easier to diagnose and repair compared to only mechanical cars. Mechanical cars may not have many problems for the first 3 to 4 years but when they do repairs are costly and out of warranty.

I was wonder what other thought of my perspective?

pnajar | 2018年4月25日

When I received my first BMW (745i) in 2003 I realized software updates and improvements where to be expected. Since that time I’ve three additional BMWs and more recently a P85D (2015),I now drive a 100D. Each and everyone has had software issues and updates. At least the Tesla’s are upgraded as the need arises in the comfort of my garage. I actually look forward to Tesla’s updates. The other cars was a two or three day in a loaner and a trip to the dealer.
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Anyone who has ever had a car in the last twenty years has had a need for updates. Some were done and many just limped along.

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月25日

Updates are one thing but an electronic device failure within the first week of ownership is the issue. IF the are going to fail it is usually right away. I have experienced this to be the new norm for electronic devices. Do you experience this to be true.

eddyline | 2018年4月25日

Also, I think most of us understand one very important factor:

This is a brand new car company. Tesla doesn't have over a hundred years of technology improvements and history/experience to look back on to see what has worked, what has not worked, and what can be improved upon. In some ways this is a plus in that it frees them from having to slowly adjust their designs and production to meet existing form factors, for example, but it also means that there will be hiccups and missteps and inefficiencies because of supply chain issues, etc. We know that. Many people coming from status quo ante automakers see minimal errors and design flaws and think that Tesla should be as good as that, with one tenth the history and experience.

mdmgso | 2018年4月25日

You are much more likely to have glitches the first few months of ownership than the following months. It often takes a little while to get the "bugs" out. This phenomenon is not limited to Tesla. It has occurred on practically every car I have owned over the last 200 years ( Lexus 400, Jaguar XJ, BMW M3, BMW M5, MB S500, MB E-55). I have had my S 100d for almost a year, and the only time I have had to take it in for service was to get the free "uncorking".

eddyline | 2018年4月25日

@mdmgso--vampire, eh? :-D

luckyj | 2018年4月25日

Anthony, these days, ALL vehicles have a substantial amount of electronics in them. And all cars are mechanical. So I think your comparison may be a little too strong regarding a Tesla being a "digital electrical device" vs. other cars being "mechanical".

I think Eddyline's point is what I'd subscribe to - Tesla's cars are relatively new platforms, so there are more glitches. And Tesla's approach of deploying frequent updates to on-board software will also lead to more glitches.

barrykmd | 2018年4月25日

eddyline | April 25, 2018
This is a brand new car company.

For how many more years will this poor excuse be used?

I've come to Tesla after 30 years of Japanese cars that were all 100% trouble-free. I swore off GM in the late 70s. It's a shame Tesla is following the American car company model in terms of reliability and quality.

Bill_75D | 2018年4月25日

Barry, Japanese cars aren't always trouble free. I bought a Toyota and put 110,000 miles on it, and it had an electronic failure two years and 25,000 miles out of warranty that required towing.

Toyota fixed it for free and paid me back for the tow truck. It was the only time it was ever in the shop except for oil and filter changes.

eddyline | 2018年4月25日

@barrykmd—that’s fine, I’m not trying to change your mind. Japanese cars are great; not for me personally though. I’m sure that Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura will come out with a BeV that’s perfect, soon.

Silver2K | 2018年4月25日

barrykmd | April 25, 2018
eddyline | April 25, 2018
This is a brand new car company.
For how many more years will this poor excuse be used?
I've come to Tesla after 30 years of Japanese cars that were all 100% trouble-free. I swore off GM in the late 70s. It's a shame Tesla is following the American car company model in terms of reliability and quality.
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i get your point, but how many automobile manufacturers that have been building cars for only 6 years are trouble free?

After many years of building cars, the Japanese vehicles you speak of were still junk mobiles that rusted badly. Those same manufacturers are now reliable after more than 50 years of building cars.

pnajar | 2018年4月25日

All companies need to be held accountable to provide quality products. One thing I like and as a result have chosen to use BMW and now Tesla is both provide warranties that are almost completely inclusive. Other may provide the same. The cost of quality failure is borne by the companies which makes it a strong

pnajar | 2018年4月25日

Motivation to improve for no other to reduce cost

barrykmd | 2018年4月25日

Silver - agree with you about the early days of the Japanese cars (though Subarus were pretty robust against rust). However, most cars had rust issues back then. Technology has improved over the years. OTOH, you manage to get salt in your door handles. Syracuse isn't called Salt City for nothing :-)

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月25日

I have to say I agree with eddyline. This is most likely the biggest reason for flaws in new Tesla's. However it has been my experience that electronics fail soon or not at all.

sr.smr | 2018年4月25日

I was advised by a high end media company rep that if an electronic device is going to fail, it most likely will do so early in its life. I'm learning that after a year of ownership, my Tesla continues to be unreliable. Both electronic and electromechanical components have failed. The car has never left me stranded, the service center personnel and customer service are the nicest people to deal with, but if this wasn't such an innovative car, I most likely would have sold it by now.

The only source that I know of that collects frequency-of-repair statistics is Consumer Reports and they have stated early on that the record was not good, But recently, that has changed. So I guess it boils down to what mood the assembly line workers where in when your car was built and how well the car was tested after assembly.

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月25日

I really wonder what kind of testing is done on part and on final assemble?

carlk | 2018年4月25日

Please stop the Japanese car myth here. They are fine (but lame) cars but far from bullet proof as some seems to want to imply. My 98' Honda Prelude had died in the middle of road no less than a half dozen times. Sometimes it would restart before tow truck came. Few times I got the car towed to a garage but nothing could be found other than they have replaced things like fuel pump or ignition wires. The problem would randomly occur again the next time. Then a recall notice came and guess what it's the ignition switch. Not just GM can have that problem.

And Toyota too this one was on CBS news recently. One of its largest dealers filed law suit because Toyota only want to add warning instead of to replace defective invertors that could cause the car to lose power. That has left the dealer with more than a hundred affected Prius it is not willing to sell to customers.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-fi-toyota-prius-defect-201802...

carlk | 2018年4月25日

Silver2K "Those same manufacturers are now reliable after more than 50 years of building cars."

Not only that but they are essentially building the same car year over year. The popular Lexus RX is onto its fourth generation but it's pretty much the same car with cosmetic changes and essentially the same engine as the original one made 20 years ago. If Tesla has been making the same Model S for the last 5~6 years it likely will also be a very trouble free car.

jordanrichard | 2018年4月25日

Sr.smr, do not give any credence to CR reliability charts. They count ANY visit to service as a ding against reliability. I took delivery of my car in Mar 2014 and have had a fair number of issues, but none of them figuratively or literally stopped the car from getting me from point A to point B.

Uncle Paul | 2018年4月25日

Tesla makes thousands of cars a week. Some of them are going to have issues right after delivery, and some will be trouble free for thousands of miles.

This is totally normal for all mass produced vehicles.

One, or just a few out of the gate issues does not mean that the company has poor quality control.

Forums tend to enhance the problem areas and gloss over the perfect ones.

Tesla's integrate more technology, and newer technology than other manufacturere. They are intent on changing the world of personal transportation.

Previous to my Model X, I owned 3 Grand Cherokees. Each one of them caused me to make of things that needed to be addressed at their first service. The issues with my X were very minor (re adjust headlights) compared to the lists for the Jeeps.

Everybody's experiences will be different as a critical adjustment for one owner will be just a Meh to another.

Haggy | 2018年4月25日

Yes, counting each thing that needs to be done could make a car look worse than it is. With my Model 3, Tesla has done a number of things for which another company might have issued a service bulletin. Nothing at all failed that I knew of but some things were swapped out. I was either there anyway or in one case a truck came to my house, but there was only one thing that affected me. It was an airbag issue, and it affected me by showing me a message. Tesla changed the airbag cover.

Right now it's in the shop for suspension work. Tesla didn't have to offer to do it. They changed the suspension components being used in production after my car was made. I don't know of any other company that would swap out parts for free due to a design change when the parts in use function perfectly. While they have the car, they have a few other things that they will do because of service bulletins. Other companies might not do the work at all, making them look better on paper.

I consider the car reliable because aside from seeing one message a few times, not a single thing went wrong that I know of, and the fact that Tesla is replacing things as preventive measures is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I can't say that I needed shop visits for any of them, but they may prevent me from needing some in the future. Or it might be that nothing would go wrong. Also, I don't know how CR feels about problems that don't affect use at all, and that Tesla sends somebody to someone's house to fix.

There's a reason that Consumer Reports once called the Model S below average for reliability but also found the highest customer satisfaction rate of any manufacturer. And if you check their ratings for used cars, the 2015 is now listed as above average for reliability as are the newer ones. Customers would rather have a few problems that are taken care of by a company that bends over backwards than even fewer problems by a company that ties up their time and doesn't fix things right.

My Model S is a 2014, but has a 2016 drive train. So even though CR says that mine is less reliable as a used car, you can't mistake work that was done with a propensity for future failures. The other category that they downgraded for my model year was squeaks and rattles. But those were fixed.

Getting back to the original point, electronics tend to have a bathtub curve for reliability. It might be impossible to get it to fail when testing it at the factory, but then the most likely time of failure would be relatively soon after that. If it doesn't fail initially, it would have to get quite old before the curve starts going back up.

Silver2K | 2018年4月26日

arrykmd | April 25, 2018
Silver - agree with you about the early days of the Japanese cars (though Subarus were pretty robust against rust). However, most cars had rust issues back then. Technology has improved over the years. OTOH, you manage to get salt in your door handles. Syracuse isn't called Salt City for nothing :-)
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Subaru is a great car no doubt.

Do you remember Datsun's issues? they were so unreliable, they slowly changed their name to Datsun/Nissan then to just Nissan.

the salt is so bad as you mention, i have to get those stupid car wash passes and wash daily.. now i have to get all those swirl marks off... what a pain that will be!

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月26日

I too have to agree. There are things I had go back to the service center that never stopped the car from getting me from point A to point B. Most were just inconveniences.

Silver2K | 2018年4月26日

I agree with AJP, my 2 Teslas never broken down.

Sam_S | 2018年4月26日

For how advanced it is, I have always marveled at how reliable it's been.

And when it has needed replacement parts, the sevice has been excellent.

I won't hesitate to buy,another Tesla in the future.

SoCal Buzz | 2018年4月26日

I think the electronics are actually very reliable overall, given the extensive battery technology, MCU and controllers for everything else. However, the firmware is less so, in particular the quality assurance and pre-release testing. However, most of those issues tend to be annoyances.

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月27日

Sam_S + 1. I too am surprised and pleased at how reliable it is. Can't imagine driving any other car.

barrykmd | 2018年4月27日

Silver2K | April 26, 2018
I agree with AJP, my 2 Teslas never broken down.

Really? Didn't you "return" your first one for endless, unfixable problems?

SO | 2018年4月27日

@barrykmd - issues != broken down.

Silver2K | 2018年4月27日

Barry, it never broke down. Always drove well.

Mathew98 | 2018年4月27日

Annoyance is not the same as breaking down.

I expected to see a better picture of @silver, perhaps totally covered in a jumpsuit. However, I am still traumatized by his picture with two ginormous drumsticks with cellulite crawling out from a pair of tiny Daisy Dukes.

Wishful thinking....

barrykmd | 2018年4月27日

Matthew - that pic popped into my mind in the waxing thread...

Mathew98 | 2018年4月27日

Just when I thought it couldn't sink any lower...

Silver2K | 2018年4月27日

I pluck, thank you

Anthony J. Parisio | 2018年4月27日

barrykmd,
No Never! The only annoyance was a leaky sunroof that was easily fixed. I traded in to help put more number of sales on the books. I never had any problem that wasn't easily fixed. None ever left the car usable. As i said just simple annoyances.

Mathew98 | 2018年4月27日

@Silver - You plucked, therefore, you are.

Well, pluck you too!