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72A Charger (14.4kW) -> 187kW Superchargers Coming?

72A Charger (14.4kW) -> 187kW Superchargers Coming?

Since a Supercharger is just a stack of standard chargers. It sounds like a stack of new chargers can yield 187kW Superchargers.

Tâm | 30 oktober 2015

Why not? As long as it doesn't fry any of current batteries.

TeslaTap.com | 30 oktober 2015

Great idea but many issues involved:

1) Cars can currently take 120 kW max (85/90). Europe has 135 kW Superchargers, but the car is still limited to 120 kW. The extra power is useful when two cars are connected to the single Supercharger module. So going to 187 kW (not sure where this number came from) would allow two cars to charge faster, but a single car would not charge faster.

2) Pumping more power into the car might be possible or not. It's unclear if the wiring and connector can support higher power levels. The batteries may also be at the limits of charging power. As you go progressively higher power charging you diminish the life of the battery. It's unclear how close Tesla is to this point, but is the #1 reason why charging speed may be limited with the current battery packs.

3) New Supercharger cases would need to be created. There isn't much free space in the current cabinets.

4) Input power to the Supercharger itself might be an issue (don't know either way). It might require a larger sub-station.

David37 | 30 oktober 2015

Where is this info that having more than one car at a Supercharging station slows the charging down. That would be completely against the purpose of having them. Each station typically has six stalls and each stall should provide 120kW regardless, with a station requiring 720kw if all six units were in operation.

Can you provide documentation that it is any different than described above?

Ankit Mishra | 30 oktober 2015

Each supercharger stall can allow 2 cars to be charged. If someone connects to a SC already charging a car then he/she will get less output. Also the guy charging before you will also get reduced output. I am a non owner. Owners will explain it to you much better.

Tâm | 30 oktober 2015

@David37

It's not formally documented for the public but it's been discussed many times since the early days of Supercharger.

Each bay is labeled as "A" or "B" because 1 charger shares 2 bays.

If you see someone charging in "3A", you want to avoid "3B" because you don't want to share a charger with your neighbor.

You want a charger for yourself if you have a choice.

You will learn this on the road. If you share a charger with your neighbor, look at the charge rate, now drive your car to a bay with an empty pair and look the the charge rate.

TeslaTap.com | 30 oktober 2015

In North America, the first car in a pair (A or B) will get up to 120 kWh of power, and the 2nd car to arrive after it in the open stall of the pair will get 30 KWh and the first car will drop to 90 kWh. As the first car's charge rate lowers as it gets near capacity (actually at around 60-70% or so) the 2nd car gets the remainder. When the first car completes the charging, the 2nd car gets the full 120 kWh.

It's actually quite a clever system, but it's also not obvious to new owners. In Europe the numbers are slightly different as the Supercharger handles 135 kWh (but 120 KWh maximum to any one car).

ian t.wa.us | 30 oktober 2015

And this thread is moot if the recent reports that the actual new charger for the X is only capable of 48amps rather than the rumored 72amp unit.

aesculus | 30 oktober 2015

@ian t.wa.us: No its not moot because when you Supercharge you bypass the onboard charger. The Superchargers output DC where your home charger is outputting AC to the on board charger that converts the AC to DC (hence the new 48 amp limit). If you had two on board chargers (like the MS has optionally) it could theoretically be 48 x 2 or 96 amps, but the maximum the current HPWC has is 80 amps.

So 72 was not as good as the MS has at 80 amps but not so bad since it was one charger and standard. 48 amps is a long way from MS max of 80. We still don't know if the MX can have two chargers or not.

georgehawley.fl.us | 31 oktober 2015

I think Tesla will top out SCs at 150 kW.

At this time I think Panasonic reccomends 2 amps per cell at 4.2 volts for charging, max.
Tesla SC pushes about 4 amps into them now at around 400 volts/96 per cell.

Roamer@AZ USA | 31 oktober 2015

Time warp back to 2013......

Want to tick someone off at a Super Charger, pair with them when there are empty unpaired slots.

The design is, like many things Tesla, brilliant. Power only gets throttled when the charge station is more than 50% occupied and the cars charging on the same pair are both low on charge. An extremely rare occurrence.

Since eight stalls use four charger cabinets the utility transformer is also sized a little smaller. Would be an incredible waste to install a transformer large enough to max all eight stalls and never ever actually reach that load.

This last week;
Only car at Wickenbug AZ, eight stalls
Only car at Kingman AZ, eight stalls
Two cars at Primm NV, eight stalls
Three cars at Barstow CA, eight stalls
Only car at Indio, CA, eight stalls
Only car at Quartzite, eight stalls

SC full loading is still very rare at most locations. Even when full cars come and go and are seldom both low charge at the same moment. So far it is a very smart design.

ian t.wa.us | 31 oktober 2015

@aesculus - Yes, I'm aware of the difference between how Superchargers (DC) and home connectors (AC) work. Thanks though.

My point was that this rumored 72 amp AC-DC in car converter (aka "charger") is just that, a rumor. Recent reports of the single charger in the X topping out at 48 amps makes the OP's post regarding building superchargers out of said AC-DC converter pure conjecture based on a rumor.

Don't forget that this whole charger change rumor started because Tesla was telling sig X reservation holders that there would NOT be a dual charger option due to lack of space.

Many are hoping for one but, that, like those hoping for fold flat second row seats, are just that, HOPES and DREAMS. All information coming from Tesla is that there will be one and only one charger on board, so your theoretical 96 amp dual charger is just that, a theory.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on hoping for a dual charger option, just like I'm hoping for a fold flat second row seat option.

Cheers!

Tâm | 31 oktober 2015

@ir

I don't think there's an engineering problem at the Supercharger side that you need to wait for another new generation high capacity charger from your vehicle.

On the supercharger side, you stack 10 kW x 9 and you got the older version of 90kW Supercharger.

You stack 10 kW x 12 and you got the current 120kW Supercharger.

You want more? Stack more! It's cheap!

The problem for engineers is not Superchargers but the challenge is how you can match your newly designed Model X with Model S home charging capability?

Model S is capable of maximum 10 kW x 2 = 20kW.

How can you slip in another onboard charger to surpass that 20 kW current limit?

Ok! That's science fiction. So, if you cannot surpass Model S maximum capability, then at least, again, how can you match its capability?

That is an engineering question that needs to be solved among current rumors.

ir | 1 november 2015

@Tâm: "how you can match your newly designed Model X with Model S home charging capability?"

Are you hijacking my thread? :P

I don't think Tesla intends to match the charging capability of the MS and MX.