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FIRST MAJOR TEST

FIRST MAJOR TEST

Going to Las Vegas Thursday, but what do you think? Inland Empire to Barstow, no problem. Barstow to Las Vegas SC, 90+ degrees, Baker Grade, 75 MPH and approx 175 miles. I can easily charge to 240 miles the nite before. I'm thinking no problem.
SoCal Burt

dilbert | 8 april 2014

I don't pick up my S85 until 4/24, but that is one drive I am counting on being able to do, and the first one I intend to make. Google maps says it is 161 miles between the Barstow and Las Vegas SCs, which ought to be easily doable, right?

SamO | 8 april 2014

@Burt,

I've driven to Vegas in my 60 6 times, and even I don't have a problem. If you want to conserve, drop your speed on the climb and open it up on the downhill. Should save you about 20% range.

NO2PTRL | 8 april 2014

Burt Court,

Please report back on how it goes. Do you have the 60 or 85?
Within the next few weeks I plan to make this my first trip, and am very interested to see how you do.

I have the P85 and can charge to 303 miles, but I also like to drive at least 75 mph. How fast will you be driving?

If you can let us know how the Barstow charging station works out?
Are you staying at a hotel that has a charging port, or will you use Tersla's before you head back?

Burt Court | 8 april 2014

I have the S85, 66 days old. I will hold the speed down to 75 with diligent use of cruise control, but refuse to use slow lane unless you come up to pass me. If all works well, will move up to usual LV to LA speeds back to Barstow. Will report back here over the week-end.

NO2PTRL | 8 april 2014

If this post get buried, can you e-mail me your results?

Sterlingllc1@yahoo.com

JAD | 8 april 2014

I am making the trip tomorrow. Unfortunately my MS wont be delivered until next week so I will be in my F150 Supercrew 4x4 instead. Actually should get 20+mpg with 6 people thanks to the ecoboost engine, but I can't wait for the Tesla. If I see any Tesla's on the side of the road I can stop and help...

Brian H | 8 april 2014

Sterling;
After a day or two (for the bots to get around to it), Volkerize.com uses Google search to find any word combos on the site, so you can find this again, easy. If necessary, stick a post in here with an unusual word to search for, like sesquipedalian.

Oh, I just did! ;)

NO2PTRL | 8 april 2014

Tks, look forward to hear you trip results.

golftoday | 8 april 2014

I've driven LA to LV and back twice. Barstow SC and the LV SC both work great. Only concern I had was a 20 mph wind coming straight at me LV to Barstow. Cruise control at 65 until Baker and I had plenty left so it was 75 mph from Baker to Barstow and I arrived with about 40 range. Easy peaty.

NO2PTRL | 8 april 2014

Golftoday,

Were you driving a 60 or 85?

NO2PTRL | 9 april 2014

Burt, good luck tomorrow!

golftoday | 9 april 2014

85. I charged to about 250 at the LV SC and drove very conservatively until Baker. If I had a 60, I might have stopped at the Level 2 charger at Whiskey Pete's at Stateline. But it's also very possible a 60 could have made Barstow by slowing to 60.

NO2PTRL | 10 april 2014

Why didn't you charge it full to 300?

Burt Court | 11 april 2014

Have some of the data and specs for the Vegas round trip if anyone cares...

Muzzman1 | 11 april 2014

Yes @Burt. Please post!

Bighorn | 11 april 2014

@Sterling
I'll bet he's talking rated ie~265, not ideal, miles. Those last few take a long time to load.

NO2PTRL | 11 april 2014

Burt, give up the goods, we want every last detail......

Rheumboy | 11 april 2014

And how much did you win/lose at the tables Burt? I got a baaaaaaad feeling.

Burt Court | 11 april 2014

Never have payed attention to these stats before but here goes:
Rancho Cucamonga to the top of Cajon Pass, used 530 W/mi, to Barstow leveled out to 353 W/Mi. Drove 78 MPH, no A/C. (Tried going 75, to dangerous, was afraid I'd get run off the road) Charged to 225 miles at Barstow and averaged 396 W/Mi to Las Vegas SC where I charged at a rate of 320 Mi/Hr at 380V, 158A. Only charged to 200 miles for return to Barstow. BIG MISTAKE! Baker grade and A/C killed me, got to Barstow offramp at zero (0). Extreme case of range anxiety. Note to self: Plan better next time, speed/wind/steep up hills, and learn alternate charging stops

NO2PTRL | 11 april 2014

Burt,

Being only a week into my car, I really don't understand the W numbers.

How many miles was it from Ranch Cucamonga to Barstow, and what did you have left when you rolled in?

How many miles did you have left when you got to the LV SC, and finally, since you have the 85, if you had charged a full charge in Vegas, would have made it to Barstow no problem?

The only place you can stop on the way to Barstow from Vegas is Primm, and that is a level 2 station, but an extra 28 miles for an hour of shopping could ease the nerves. I think that I will plan to do that.

Burt Court | 12 april 2014

RC to Barstow is only 72 miles, but the Cajon Pass is fairly steep. I recharged to 224 miles there and had 30 miles when I got to LV. Should have charged more before leaving LV, or topped off at Whiskey Petes, but didn't think I needed to. All future trips will include some method of overnite charging at either friends, hotel or motel etc. Also learned that driving under 75 on most open freeways is unreasonable and really cuts into range planning.

NO2PTRL | 12 april 2014

Tu

SamO | 12 april 2014

Am in Vegas. Averaged 70 mph from LA to Vegas and used 274Wh/m. Charged to 196 in Barstow and arrived with 28 miles in north Las Vegas.

I'm convinced the MS60 is 15% more efficient to start. I again employed a technique of dropping speed 5-10mph on steep climbs and opened up the speed (by coasting in neutral) on the downhills.

Downhill speeds averaged 80-85mph. Used regen when speed got too high.

ye | 12 april 2014

SamO said: "I again employed a technique of dropping speed 5-10mph on steep climbs and opened up the speed (by coasting in neutral) on the downhills."

How long were these climbs and descents?

For small hills, I think it's a good idea to coast downhill, picking up speed, and then to use that extra speed, rather than electricity from the battery, to help you up the next hill. So you speed up going downhill and slow down going uphill.

But, on long descents, the car will not keep picking up speed forever, because air resistance is higher at higher speeds. If you let the car coast downhill at constant speed, limited by air resistance, you're wasting the energy that you could have recovered by using regeneration to limit yourself to a slower speed.

NO2PTRL | 13 april 2014

I used to use this same technique going to and from Vegas in my Lexus, and really increased my gas mileage. I will use it again in my MS.

golftoday | 13 april 2014

@Sterlingllc1
@Bighorn is correct. I only look at rated miles. 250 was not totally full but after 250 it goes really slow. I thought 250 would be enough so I stopped. I think 100% full is only about 265.

@SamO thanks for the tip on coasting. I've now used it a few times successfully. You have to watch out on really steep downhills, but on moderate ones it's pretty cool.

SamO | 13 april 2014

@ye

All of the climbs, total, between Barstow and Vegas are less than 25 miles. Several are very steep 6%+ grades.

The car will continue to pick up speed greater than 93mph. I usually prefer coasting but in those circumstances, for safety, I will engage drive and allow motor braking/ regen to recharge the battery rather than risking an unsafe speed. You are wasting a small amount if energy (yes it is wasted) but traffic, police and general safety are real world considerations.

@sterling & golftoday. Please report back on your coasting results.

I should have mentioned that I employed the same technique from LA to Barstow and was able to average 243Wh/m over 126 miles. But my average speed was only 67mph.

ye | 13 april 2014

Sterlingllc1 said: "I used to use this same technique going to and from Vegas in my Lexus, and really increased my gas mileage."

I assume the Lexus didn't have regenerative braking. In that case, there's no reason not to coast downhill, as fast as you want to, for as long as you want to.

ye | 13 april 2014

SamO said: "All of the climbs, total, between Barstow and Vegas are less than 25 miles. Several are very steep 6%+ grades."

The important thing, I think, is how long each downhill stretch is, separately. Is it short enough that the car, if coasting in neutral, is still speeding up when it reaches the bottom?

SamO said: "The car will continue to pick up speed greater than 93mph. I usually prefer coasting but in those circumstances, for safety, I will engage drive and allow motor braking/ regen to recharge the battery rather than risking an unsafe speed. You are wasting a small amount if energy (yes it is wasted) but traffic, police and general safety are real world considerations."

Ignoring air resistance, regenerative braking wastes some energy compared to letting the car speed up downhill. But air resistance causes the car to speed up less than it otherwise would, and that wastes energy too. So the question is, which wastes more energy?

Coasting on a long downhill stretch, the car will eventually stop speeding up, its speed limited by air resistance. After that point, all the energy that you could have gotten from the rest of the downhill stretch will be wasted, used up in overcoming air resistance. On the other hand, if you use regenerative braking to limit yourself to a low speed, you get to recover energy from the entire downhill stretch. Not all of the available energy, granted, but some fraction of it.

So, for a long descent, it pays to use regenerative braking for most of it and only switch to coasting near the end.

I should say that this is all theoretical -- I don't have a Model S to try it on -- and of course you should believe the actual numbers that you get in practice. But knowing the theory may help when trying to interpret real-world data.

Koz | 13 april 2014

Haven't done the math but based gradient, wind and accessory load there is always speed at which the @88% efficient regen is a better option. Since gradient changes a lot so does the optimized speed. My swag is that it is between 65-80 mph for most freeway grades.

Burt Court | 13 april 2014

Let me add that I use cruise control up and down hill. From the top of Mountain Pass to Primm I did not gen any miles, nor did I use any.
To you people who slow down going uphills, drive 65 or less in the fast lanes and otherwise cause 10 mile long back-ups on holidays and week-ends, I don't understand your lack of consideration for the tens of thousands of people you are impeading. Are you so arrogant that you need to control what others around you do? Also, I didn't buy a car that can go Zero to Sixty in Five in relative luxury and saves me $150 a month over an equivelent Lexus or MB. End of Rant.
BTW, when I got my drivers license 65 years ago, it was illegal to coast (but that was long before automatic transmissions)

SamO | 13 april 2014

@koz

I calculated that regen should be employed at speeds over 75mph since as YE described above you have two competing inefficinecies.
1) friction due to air
2) regen inefficiency

My WAG is 73mph but I tend to allow my downhill speed exceed that so that my average speed increases.

sxross | 13 april 2014

I'd say don't fear the range charge. If it will set your mind at ease, then leave with more juice in the battery. I've never approached Barstow with less than 80 miles rated range.

I'm not the fastest driver on the road, use cruise a lot, and watch my consumption numbers. This is a drive lots of people do often. I have a P85 and when I first made the trip I was averaging 340 Wh/mi. Still made it with juice to spare. I'm now averaging 320 but the benefit of long uninterrupted stretches of road makes my remaining mileage pretty similar.

Really, unless you have a lead foot or stiff headwind, you have more to worry about losing at the casinos. Again, charge to a comfortable level, use cruise control and wave to the Mercedes and Porsches as they pass you. Growl at the Priuses.

Just my $.02.

Bighorn | 13 april 2014

On my big trip, I started adding a 100 mile buffer if I could so my enjoyment was never hampered by battery concerns. I saw where the Vancouver to FL folks had range concerns between Glenwood Springs and Silverthorne--a shame since that's some of the best mountain twisties around. Had a blast playing cat and mouse with a brand new M5 along there.

billbaggy | 13 april 2014

I just did my first LA to LV trip in my 85 last weekend. Have had my MS for more than a year now, and this was my first time using the Superchargers. I was only 110mi to Barstow. Drove comfortably and averaged 340Wh/mi.That was easy.

165miles Barstow SpC to LV SpC. Standard charge in Barstow to 220 rated. Drove comfortably 70-80mph with sunroof open most of the way. Averaged 347Wh/mi. Had plenty of extra entering LV.

After reading these forums, seems like trip back is a bit more taxing, so in LV did a full range charge. Left with 240 rated miles. Not much traffic. Used cruise at 75-80 most of the way. No coasting and no thinking about managing speed. Averaged 369Wh/mi. Entered Barstow SpC with 28 rated miles left.

No range anxiety. Very happy with the experience .

This car just gets better and better.

Still grinning.

ye | 13 april 2014

SamO said: "I calculated that regen should be employed at speeds over 75mph"

Can you say more about this calculation? I can't figure out what you did.

NO2PTRL | 13 april 2014

Billbaggy, thanks for posting your result, that sounds like how I like to drive.

Burt Court, love your rant, I HATE Road Monitors. You know the idiots that think they control the speed for everyone. Get the F over.