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I am watching a show called 'Six" on the History channel and heard this quote that is the reason I prefer not driving ICE cars

I am watching a show called 'Six" on the History channel and heard this quote that is the reason I prefer not driving ICE cars

I am not sold on global warming (renamed "climate change because reports of warming have been exaggerated"

Here is the quote from the TV show and the reason I prefer battery cars "Every time you put gas in your car it goes directly in the pocket of the Islamic terrorists"

The next time someone complains about government subsidies remind them that the blood of young American soldiers has been spilled to keep the gas flowing from our pumps.

The person that has relatives that will not get into a Tesla may want to remind their relitives of this fact but I doubt it will help because you can't fix stupid.

I love the Tesla but at this moment I can't buy a Tesla so I am content to drive a Honda plug in, so far I have traveled over 700 miles in my Honda Clarity without using a drop of gas in my 7 gallon tank

SCCRENDO | 6 juni 2018

A good start. But perhaps it is time to educate yourself on climate change and global warming

ragtopday | 6 juni 2018

I have no doubt that the climate is changing, it has been changing before man has walked on this planet. If you were able to wipe every human off the face of the earth the climate will continue to change

dmm1240 | 6 juni 2018

Not this fast and not due to us. Look at the CO2 concentration. The line goes straight up.

Plus, I don't need a study to tell me that something is wrong. We've had one 1,000 year weather event, a couple of once every 500 years and some more once a century weather events where I live the past 10 years. Spring now comes a month earlier, winter a month later than was true when I was a boy long, long ago. I can see this looking out my front door.

SO | 7 juni 2018

@ragtopday - yes, climate changed before man. The difference is the speed of change.

When a vast majority of people live near the coast, we cannot afford fast change. That causes displacement which will lead to conflict.

SO | 7 juni 2018

And for the others who say that we are drilling in the US and therefore not sending the money to terrorists:

1. Check who owns the largest refinery in the US. Hint, it’s the same country where 15 of the 19 Sept 11 terrorists came from.

2. Oil is a global commodity. When demand is up in the US, it drives the price up worldwide and therefore more money in the Middle East.

SO | 7 juni 2018

@dmm1240 - very true about seeing the difference out the front door. The tulip time festival near me had to be moved up earlier in the spring several years back because before that, the festival was AFTER the tulips have already bloomed and then lost their petals. It was becoming known as the “stem fest”.

ssswww88888 | 7 juni 2018

Climate change, global warming etc.... To me, I believe EV's is just about improvement in technology and not about Funding Terrorist or polluting the earth.

sabbia | 7 juni 2018

Ragtop ...I hope you see the illogic in your comment. Basically you are saying the climate has changed before there were humans so we can dismiss human caused (anthropogenic) climate change.

Just because there are certainly many causes for climate change does not mean that a man-made cause does not exist also. It's like saying people have been dying since there were people, so we don't need medicine.

BTW...the quote you have from "Six" is absurd.

ragtopday | 7 juni 2018

@ sabbia

I just don't know how to respond to your comment about the quote from the show being absurd. The show is made for entertainment and is not 100% factually accurate, however there is no doubt that oil producing countries are using our money to help train and finance terrorists.

In my opinion the important point is that people are switching to pure electrics, hybrids and and ICE vehicles that are more fuel efficient. Regardless of what personal beliefs are motivating people to change the fact that people are changing their mind set is what is important. If people are trying to reach a goal, the road or pathway we use to get there is not as important as the fact that people are changing. Instead of dwelling on our differences why are we not concentrating on our common goal? If one person buys a Tesla (or other electric vehicle) because the are concerned with the climate and another person also buys a Tesla but does not give a darn about the climate is anyone going to look down on or belittle the second person because he bought his Tesla for the wrong reasons? Why can't some people be happy that people are changing their attitude toward electrics instead of being upset because they didn't buy their car for the right reasons (as if there is a right or wrong reason for buying a Tesla)? Just be happy people are changing and don't be judgmental for the reasons they are changing. I just stated why I bought and electric, is the fact I am driving an electric less important because I I did not get and electric for the right reason.

by the way I would love to own a Tesla but I can't afford one. So far I have driven my Honda Clarity well over 700 miles without using a drop of gas so the Honda works well for me and I was able to pay cash for it. I would have needed to take out a loan for a Tesla and I have never gotten a car that I could not pay cash for. Maybe if I downsize and sell my large house and move to a smaller house I be able to get a Tesla

sabbia | 7 juni 2018

@RagTop. Thank you for engaging respectfully.

To your point, it's great that some people change regardless of their views on climate change facts.

I was commenting on the quote you posted: "Every time you put gas in your car it goes directly in the pocket of the Islamic terrorists." Patently absurd. Note that the US produced 9.3 million barrels of petroleum in 2017. Source US Energy Information Administration. I'm not stumping for using petroleum, only the absurdity of the quote.

Tesla2018 | 7 juni 2018

"If one person buys a Tesla (or other electric vehicle) because the are concerned with the climate and another person also buys a Tesla but does not give a darn about the climate is anyone going to look down on or belittle the second person because he bought his Tesla for the wrong reasons? Why can't some people be happy that people are changing their attitude toward electrics instead of being upset because they didn't buy their car for the right reasons (as if there is a right or wrong reason for buying a Tesla)? Just be happy people are changing and don't be judgmental for the reasons they are changing. I just stated why I bought and electric, is the fact I am driving an electric less important because I I did not get and electric for the right reason."

Certain people on this forum will bash anyone who does agree with them that we all are going to die from global warming. It seems like that is all they care about and think about and it consumes their every thought. While it is good to be passionate about something, after a while it becomes annoying. Sort of like the Jehovah Witnesses trying to convince a person to join their church instead being glad that the person already goes to a church. We are already buying Teslas and on the Tesla site. But they would be willing to crucify anyone who was considering a Porsche Boxster and a model 3 because they want 2 trunks or are buying a car because they are getting free cheese from the government in the form of a rebate.

In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all get along?"

Yodrak. | 7 juni 2018

" "Every time you put gas in your car it goes directly in the pocket of the Islamic terrorists." Patently absurd."

I agree, a huge overstatement.

"... the important point is that people are switching to pure electrics, hybrids and and ICE vehicles that are more fuel efficient."

Some people, maybe. But enough people are buying SUVs and pickup trucks that, for example, Ford is going to stop making all sedan models except for the Mustang. Too bad that Ford didn't decide instead to design a sedan that people would want to buy, and great that SUVs and pickups are getting better mileage today than they did in the past, but gasoline prices are still low enough that people as a whole are not moving to vehicles that are more fuel efficient because they want fuel efficiency.

Yodrak. | 7 juni 2018

" "Every time you put gas in your car it goes directly in the pocket of the Islamic terrorists." Patently absurd."

I agree, a huge overstatement.

"... the important point is that people are switching to pure electrics, hybrids and and ICE vehicles that are more fuel efficient."

Some people, maybe. But enough people are buying SUVs and pickup trucks that, for example, Ford is going to stop making all sedan models except for the Mustang. Too bad that Ford didn't decide instead to design a sedan that people would want to buy, and great that SUVs and pickups are getting better mileage today than they did in the past, but gasoline prices are still low enough that people as a whole are not moving to vehicles that are more fuel efficient because they want fuel efficiency. Rather, the majority of car buyers as a whole are moving to vehicles that are less fuel efficient than they could be because what they really want are big vehicles that can carry a lot of stuff.

vp09 | 7 juni 2018

ragtopday
Outstanding comments! Thank you.

finman100 | 8 juni 2018

Wait, paid cash for a Clarity plug-in yet can't afford a Tesla? Yes, the Model 3 base is not available yet, but...

"Our 2018 Honda Clarity Plug-In Touring model carried a base price of $36,600, no options at all, and a mandatory delivery fee of $890, bringing the bottom line on the sticker to $37,490."

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116239_2018-honda-clarity-plug-in-...

seriously?

http://shop.honda.com/clarity-plug-in-hybrid.aspx

huh. so THAT'S why the base model of the Model 3 will be such a game-changer. nice!

ragtopday | 8 juni 2018

@ finman100

There are reasons for my choice, but I am here as a guest and did not come here to make negative comments about the Tesla. In order to explain why I chose a Honda I would have to point some negative aspects about Tesla while making comments about my reasons for choosing Honda. I'll mention two things about the Tesla and leave it at that. Reason #1 I was able to hand over a check to the dealer and walk out with the Honda the same day. From what I have read there is a very long wait for the mode 3 (which I like to call the "E"). I wish I knew why Mr Musk has a model "S" "X" "Y" but he he did not name the 3 a model "E" (model Y in the works)

#2 I mentioned I am in the process of down sizing and that involves moving to Tucson. I drive to Tucson at least twice a year. I have checked out the location of SC's and in order to drive from South Carolina to Tucson I would have to drive hundreds of miles out of my wait and add days to my trip.

There are other reasons for choosing Honda but as I mentioned I do not want to come here as a guest and make negative comments about the Tesla

finman100 | 8 juni 2018

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_2015_74&o=Tucson,%20AZ,%20USA_Tucson%...@32.2226066,-110.97471080000003&s=&d=Columbia,%20SC,%20USA_Columbia%20Richland%20County%20SC@34.0007104,-81.03481440000002

All valid reasons, I'm glad you are choosing fuel efficiency! Enjoy the desert SW. it is hot but beautiful.

finman100 | 8 juni 2018

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_2015_74&o=Columbia,%20SC,%20USA_Colum...@34.0007104,-81.03481440000002&s=&d=Tucson,%20AZ,%20USA_Tucson%20Pima%20County%20AZ@32.2226066,-110.97471080000003

I'll try again. if no go, it's tesla.com/trips. Google "go anywhere tesla".

rgrant | 8 juni 2018

Because Ford owns the Model E trademark

ragtopday | 8 juni 2018

@ finman100

Thanks for the link

I still have the same problem in Texas that I had the last time I checked. When I get to Midland TX I have to drop down to Van Horn and add hundreds of miles and and an extra day or two spent at a motel.

It is doable but it involves extra time and days spent in motels. As I already mentioned in another post I would rather not make and negative comments about the Tesla, it is a great car and I loved it the moment I sat in it and took a test drive. I can't think of any other car that I would be willing to drive a couple hours to take a test drive

SCCRENDO | 8 juni 2018

@ragtopday. That climate change deniers are switching to cleaner fuels is great even if it is for the wrong reason. However man made climate change is real and to deniers like you it is possible that you could switch back to fossil fuels next week. Hence I praised you for a good start. But for the sake of the planet we need to ameliorate climate change. In addition it will get rid of the oil producing countries holding us to ransom including declaring mindless wars. That you are buying an EV however does not give you the right to deny climate change on this forum so you don’t get a free pass. So if you wish to deny climate change and be respected on this forum present us with some facts rather than an unsubstantiated ranting.

ragtopday | 9 juni 2018

I came to this forum to learn more about the Tesla because when I downsize to a smaller house I hope purchase a model S

I guess that only people that believe in global warming and are buying an electric car for the " RIGHT REASONS" are welcome here and I have concluded that it is not worth the stress and aggravation involved with discussing global warming. From now on I am just going to read the comments and threads that interest me but I will not chime in with my thoughts.

ragtopday | 9 juni 2018

“We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.”

― Benjamin Franklin

SCCRENDO | 9 juni 2018

Sorry to see you go. Everyone is welcome here. But unsubstantiated denier opinion are not going to be left unchallenged. The presence or absence of climate change is not a popularity vote. It is based on facts. Your opinion does not carry any value when not accompanied by supporting facts. Owning an EV does not provide automatic validity to your opinions. So I apologize for upsetting your fragile ego but I among others believe your statements on climate change are worthless.

ragtopday | 10 juni 2018

Sorry but this is a free country and I am entitled to believe anything I want to. I merely stated what my opinion is and regardless of what you or anyone else believes I am entitled to my opinion without proving it nor justifying it to anyone. If I said that it is my opinion that the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese I am entitled to have my opinion without justifying it to anyone. So what is nest are people with different religious beliefs, will I have to change my muslim beliefs to Christian to fit in? If you have your opinion and I have mine, if it is necessary for me to abandon my beliefs and opinions to fit in I am not willing to do that

SCCRENDO | 10 juni 2018

No one is stopping you from having an opinion. But we are also entitled to correct an opinion that is BS. No one here is changing your opinion. We are just disagreeing with it. None of us could care less what your religion is. Every religion has its own smart people and it’s own stupid people. We are purely reacting to your ignorant statements on climate change. And whining and sulking won’t get you much sympathy here.

SO | 10 juni 2018

Other people’s opinions are fine until they start affecting me and my family. If people are going to affect my life, I want it based on evidence and knowledge rather than just feelings.

ragtopday | 10 juni 2018

You are not entitled to correct anyone's opinion that differs from yours, You also have no right the resort to name calling if people have different opinions. I checked some of your other comments and apparently I am not the only one that you have called names. I guess you feel brave hiding behind a keyboard on the internet, if you had that attitude in the real world someone will get ticked off enough to give you an attitude adjustment. but in real world and I doubt you would insult anyone face to face.

If someone met you and thought you were a typical Tesla owner and had to deal with your elitist attitude they probably would not want to own a car that elitist snobs drove, fortunately I have had the pleasure of meeting other Tesla owners that are not snobs.

I came here to discuss and learn about a wonderful car. Unfortunately there is too much bickering over global warming and not enough information about cars to make me want to spend time here

SO | 10 juni 2018

@ragtopday - you can usually tell which threads will have a political slant and which won’t. Just stay away from the threads you don’t want to read.

There is still quite a bit of good information on here related to Tesla and the vehicles. Usually less political in the S, 3 and X forums. The General section is more likely to have threads you don’t want to read.

ragtopday | 10 juni 2018

Thanks for the info. I am going to take a short break from posting on this forum and come back in a week

It is a shame that we all seem to love the Tesla and electric cars in general but instead of focusing on our common love Teslas there seems to be too much bickering.

By the way I started this topic to explain why I am doing my best to avoid ICE vehicles. The character on the show that made the statement was playing the role of a conspiracy nut. Although the character was not wrapped too tight there was some truth to the comments he made. I may not entirely agree with everything the character said but there is no doubt that there is a huge cost in money and blood to keep the oil flowing

SO | 10 juni 2018

No worries. Probably good to take a break from the Forums in general once in a while.

SCCRENDO | 10 juni 2018

For someone who wanted to take a break you have been pretty active in posting. You need to realize that there is a difference in freedom to express an opinion and us respecting your opinion versus blindly accepting your opinion as fact. Nobody here has restricted your right to post. You are the one who is threatening not to. We in fact praised you for choosing an EV and agree based on your circumstances a Honda sounded like a better choice than a Tesla. In fact I told you it was a good choice. But you tried to subtly claim that man made climate change was not an issue because the climate has changed before. That is a factually incorrect statement and is consistent with that of a climate change denier. Your statement is factually incorrect and while that may be your opinion which you clearly expressed I called you out as a climate change denier. You could correct our interpretation of your statement by providing some evidence. Instead you took to sulking and whining and even tried to pull the religious card. So again feel free to express any opinion you like but if you express an ignorant opinion that is false and in fact harmful if not challenged you are likely to get the response you got from me But lets be clear. You were not attacked because your opinion differed from mine. You got attacked because you were wrong

jpcollins9 | 11 juni 2018

As an owner of two Teslas, part of my decision to purchase the first one was that it was 1) supportive of alternative energy and 2) a pretty cool concept for a car. The second purchase was because my wife (Mrs Pragmatic) 1) liked it and 2) saw it as an economically good decision. There's been lots of analyses that describe "cost parity", the point where ICE cars and electric cars essentially cost the same to buy and operate. Tony Seba of Rethink says that will be in 2019-20. From that point on, the cost of electric cars will continue to drop and the ICE will become a bad financial choice for those who are practical- which is most of us. Seba also makes similar tipping point analyses about distributed power versus roof top solar electricity, saying that by early 2020 the cost of solar roof top power generation will be cheaper than the cost the utilities incur delivering it to your home, not counting the cost they incur generating it. Granted the "Wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine" argument was difficult to counterpoint ...exceptl the storage issue is also moving to a point where even that argument tips in the favor of solar roof and storage at a cost below the current utility costs. Whether we care about climate change or not, not many of us will ignore real economic gain. I know my wife won't!

SCCRENDO | 11 juni 2018

@jpcollins9. it is wonderful that alternate fuels are becoming competitive and more affordable. Most of us here are excited about Elon Musk and Tesla in that they are moving all, including climate change deniers, towards alternate fuels. And I appreciate that OP is driving an EV despite climate change denial. But that does not give him the right to state his incorrect opinion that climate change has nothing to do with man's polluting endeavors without at least providing evidence to support his opinion. That is why we are obligated to refute it.

Rocky_H | 11 juni 2018

Quote: “I wish I knew why Mr Musk has a model "S" "X" "Y" but he he did not name the 3 a model "E"”

Tesla was certainly planning to do that, but Ford said they owned that trademark and would sue over it.

Quote: “Sorry but this is a free country and I am entitled to believe anything I want to. I merely stated what my opinion is and regardless of what you or anyone else believes I am entitled to my opinion without proving it nor justifying it to anyone. If I said that it is my opinion that the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese I am entitled to have my opinion without justifying it to anyone.”

I see this come up, usually from the right-wing. Someone disagrees with them, and they falsely assert that it is censorship and preventing them from having an opinion and trying to shut them up and prevent them from saying things and oppression of freedom of speech, and other nonsense. No. It’s just someone else saying something different. Disagreeing isn’t telling you you can’t say or believe the original thing.

Quote: “You are not entitled to correct anyone's opinion that differs from yours,”

Actually, everyone does have the right to try correcting everyone else’s opinions. That’s what free speech is—people getting to speak and disagree with each other.

I’m kind of about half on your side here as far as I never get near the climate change threads, because they are just a bunch of angry arguing and definitely not worth reading, so I stay away from them.

Tesla2018 | 16 juni 2018

Sccrendo-I dont want to get into a climate change debate but am curious about something. Since you are a doctor do you think something like the pandemic that happenned 100 years ago or the Bubonic plague or cases of Typhoid flu, or possibly AIDs are more of a threat to mankind than global warming?
Global warming might take years to kill millions if major flooding occurs, loss of land for farming, increased hurricane damage, etc. but wouldnt a bad disease that spread quickly and didnt have a cure be more detrimental?

SO | 16 juni 2018

@Tesla2016 - in about 80 years, it looks as though the oceans will rise another 6 feet which will cause even more people to have to move inland. Over 80 percent of the worlds population lives within 60 miles of the coast. How do you think you’ll like it when people start concentrating even more into your area than the current rate?

Also, those plagues can often be cured with a vaccine and then just a matter of vaccinating the population or at least treated. Do you think reversing a climate situation on a planetary scale will be as simple? The longer one waits on this issue, the worse it gets and the more difficult it is to fix.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/30/ant...

SO | 16 juni 2018

Also is your argument that a possible incurable disease might wipe us out and therefore don’t bother with an actual known problem of climate change?

Hmmmm

NKYTA | 17 juni 2018

@SO, good point.

But the anti-vaxers might wipe out your neighborhood.

And it is real anti-science, everywhere, beyond party. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Vaccination-Skeptics_Network

Tesla2018 | 17 juni 2018

Im just saying that climate change may be man made, and might take longer to reverse, but also other things are a danger to civilization that might kill more people in a shorter amount of time and sooner than global warming but people arent paying as much attention to them.

I dont think 80% of the world population lives within 60 miles of the coast. 240 million Americans dont but maybe everyone on the UK or Australia or possibly in India or China where the population is out of control.

In that case 80% of the land that is 60 miles away from the coast has hardly any people, so its not like we are going to run out of room. If I go 10 miles west of the ocean, thete is nothing but sugar cane fields untilI get to withon 10 miles of the west coast. However Orlando is a different story because of all the tourist attractions. West Texas is also desolate. Most places in VT ate far away from each other and my neighbor has property 100 miles away from Rome, Italy which has been around for centuries and thete is nothing there.
Homestead FL got wiped out by Hurricane Andtew but everyone just moved to Ft Lauderdale or other areas. It would stink, but at least people would have time to move. With a pandemic, millions would die in a shorter period of time. And God forbid we have WWW3 caused by idiotic leaders. I guess about 100 million must have died in wars in the last century. That is the worst man made disaster that should have been prevented.

SO | 17 juni 2018

@Tesla2018 - well.... there are some people that can work on vaccinations. There are others that can work on producing products which are better for our environment.

“By 2010, 80 per cent of people will live within 60 miles of the coast.*

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/10/18/how-many-people-live-near-the/

Believe it or not, there is more than just the US on the planet.

SO | 17 juni 2018

And you worry about WWW3. What better way to start a war than to have massive amounts of people migrating, changing food production areas, etc.

SCCRENDO | 17 juni 2018

@tesla2018. It is not an either/or. We don’t chose whether to stop North Korea or Iran from nuking us. We try stop them both. We don’t chose between someone shooting or stabbing us. Are you truly that dense. Instead to just denying climate change for whatever reason why not go educate yourself about the facts. You live in Florida don’t you. So you may be among the first to move. You will be followed by the weathermoron who still doesn’t know he lives in a flood zone. You seem to be flippant about relocating New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Delhi and Amsterdam just so we can continue to burn fossil fuels. Also let me educate you a limit bit more. Climate change can bring on new epidemics. Have you heard of Zika virus? With warming temps it has already hit Florida. Is microcephaly a trivial thing?? Well again perhaps it is. Perhaps you have it?