FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

● FEAR -- Fear that Tesla is in fact some sort of scam that is pushing the Green Agenda for nefarious purposes...
-- Fear that you might be counted among the number of FOOLS that have been led astray by pie-in-the-sky 'promises' that are certain to NEVER happen...
● UNCERTAINTY -- Uncertainty that Tesla's cars will ever be viable for more than a handful of months or years and that the batteries will die practically overnight then be ridiculously expensive to replace...
-- Uncertainty that anything Tesla builds will be 'worth the money' in any way, without the traditional styling, commitment to craftsmanship, attention to detail, and dedication to heritage that 'everyone else' claims to excel in...
-- Uncertainty that you may have fallen under the spell of a fast talking flim-flam man, shyster, or lying con artist who has preyed upon your deepest hopes to deceive you...
● DOUBT -- Doubt that Tesla will be around to handle warranty concerns after they go out of business in disgrace following the shenanigans of Elon Musk are inevitably exposed for the manipulative lies they've always been...
-- Doubt that Tesla has the expertise to do anything at all they claim to be planning...

These are the tools that Trolls use to spread their Theorem, Thesis, & Theatrical displays of alarm and warning that nothing anyone hears about Tesla that is in the slightest bit positive can be trusted at face value. They tell anyone that listens that supporters of Elon Musk and/or Tesla are 'blind followers' that don't know any better, steeple that have fallen under the spell of a master manipulator and complete liar. A false leader with the sole goal of selling his lies as fact to gullible followers.

Trolls have suggested for several years that Tesla is destined to go out of business 'any day now'. Some of the most famous Trolls are Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, Keefe Wivaneff, and others.

Crap. Deleted my post by mistake. Starting over with an earlier save...

Anyway, lost a good bit of what I had written before. Since HIM666 refuses to specify when Tesla is 'going out of business' I'll assume that since his previous guesses were wrong (he indicated multiple times between October 2017 and March 2018 that Tesla would 'run out of money and go bankrupt within two quarters'), he might choose a time frame in the relative near future to be wrong this time. So, he would likely claim that no one, anywhere, will order or receive the base, Standard Range Model 3 prior to January 1, 2019, and also claim that Tesla will file bankruptcy on, by, or before March 31, 2019.

We'll see.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 17 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

It's late at night for me. I'm going to sleep. Good night, All.

spuzzz123 | 18 september 2018

Hey ReD, I know you're probably sleeping in after a late night, but I was hoping for an update. Did Tesla file for bankruptcy yesterday, or go out of business yesterday?

ravisundaramam | 18 september 2018

Given how past the deadline Tesla is regarding bankwuptcy may be we need hourly update is justified? I just wonder.

ravisundaramam | 18 september 2018

@ReD eXiLe ms us " If someone wants to build a custom vehicle over Model S or Model X components, they can buy a completed vehicle and have fun."

I think someone did modify a full priced Model X or S. Vaguely recall some british looking manor, mews, stables and barn (and hunter green painted?) modified tesla.

Magic 8 Ball | 18 september 2018

Yup, a dutch company made wagon out of an S.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 18 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

ravisundaramam: Yes. There is a custom project for a Model S Estate/Station Wagon. I believe the owner of the car modified an older Model S he had already been driving for some time. It was featured prominently on episodes of the Fully Charged Show...

Tesla Model S Shooting Brake -- Part 1 | FullyCharged (21:22) November 12, 2017
[ YouTube -- Ydb9TW3Bmh8 ]

Tesla Model S Shooting Brake -- Part 2 | FullyCharged (20.52) April 28, 2018
[ YouTube -- rEtYeDiHshU ]

cascadiadesign | 18 september 2018

Yes - Tesla is still in business and "Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead".

dd.micsol | 19 september 2018

95% of negative data comes from very large short holders and OPEC.

NoMoPetrol | 19 september 2018

@ ReD eXiLe "Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business..."

You must be wrong because the ever-prescient Bob Lutz has declared Tesla to be headed for the graveyard. One has to wonder whether anything short of his entry into the great beyond will ever take the bitter taste out of his mouth, knowing that a brash upstart like Elon Musk has accomplished what he failed so miserably at - successfully launching EVs into an ICE-laden population.

roberttown | 19 september 2018

@ravisundaramam I missed the update on 'bankwuptcy', I was out hunting wabbits.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 19 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

cadscadiadesign: In other news, Sergio Marchionne, former CEO of Ferrari, Fiat-Chrysler, and Maserati, died in July following complications from shoulder surgery in June. He seemed to absolutely adore gas guzzlers and thoroughly despise electric drive. May he rest in peace, having never witnessed the full electrification of any of the automotive brands he headed.

NoMoPetrol: There was an episode of Charlie Rose some years ago where Bob Lutz met face-to-face with Elon Musk. Mr. Lutz seemed rather surprised by the level of respect Elon gave him at the time. It seemed a civil exchange of ideas. Though, Mr. Lutz remained in favor of using ICE indefinitely. And yes, Mr. Lutz has been much more full of vehemence and vitriol versus Tesla in the years since. He won't ever give up on ICE while he yet lives.

Bob Lutz and Elon Musk | Charlie Rose (14:53)
[ YouTube -- _ge_CN0-ZRs ]

roberttown: I think it more likely that smaller traditional automobile manufacturers that make no move toward electric vehicles go bankwupt in the next few years. Larger companies hope to stave off that occurence by releasing Teswa Kiwwas in the years to come, to sell next to their fleet of gas guzzlers. We'll see if that strategy succeeds or not.

cascadiadesign | 19 september 2018

It's hard for a company to advance to the next paradigm when they have so much history, culture & and investment in the old paradigm.

Think Kodak. Their demise wasn't really about technology - they invented the digital camera. Kodak's problem was myopia - they just didn't see and act on the disruptive forces affecting their industry.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 19 september 2018

Time for more FUD Fighting...

Elon Musk hasn't been indicted.  Hasn't been arrested.  Hasn't been charged.  Hasn't been arraigned.  Hasn't been tried.  Hasn't even been fined, or given a verbal warning to cease and desist.

Yet, some insist he is 'in trouble' for his tweets announcing that he was 'considering' going private with Tesla (TSLA) at $420 per share. Never mind that even if he is being investigated by the SEC due to third party complaints, no one there will tell anyone in the public anything about it until they are done. Please, look up the terms 'Due Process', 'Habeus Corpus', and 'Just Cause', along with maybe 'Rule of Law' for reference.

So, please, pretty please, with sugar on top, [IGNORE] all Trolls, $#0r+s, NaySayers, NEVERSayers, Skeptics, Contrarians, Realists, Critics, and Pessimistic Crackheads that attempt to claim Elon Musk will be fired, deported, or placed in prison 'any day now'. Man. The FUD is just gonna get worse over the next few months.


kcheng | 20 september 2018

"cascadiadesign | September 16, 2018
The Los Angeles Times is known to overwhelming publish negative stories about Tesla.

In 2018, billionaire surgeon / entrepreneur Patrick Soon-Shiong became the owner of the LA Times.

Blackrock is an American global investment management corporation. They are an investor in Soon-Shiong's latest project which is a series of companies to research and fight cancer.

At the June 2018 meeting of Tesla shareholders, funds managed by BlackRock wanted to separate Musk from his role as chairman. Musk would have remained CEO of the company and an independent chairman would have been named."

I'd just point out that it's not unreasonable to want a chairman who isn't also CEO. Given how big Blackrock is, they're inevitably going to have investments in lots of companies, so trying to draw meaningful inferences between so many investments is a bit foolhardy.

Red Sage ca us | 20 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

So there.

Red Sage ca us | 21 september 2018

kenccheng: It is similarly 'not unreasonable' for a company to have the same person serve as CEO and Chairman. Elon Musk has shown a willingness to recuse himself from voting on certain issues, such as his own compensation, or purchasing SolarCity. Once again, those who wanted Elon to step down from one role or the other were rebuffed by the majority of shareholders. The same ones that voted to give him a ten year contract extension. Think about it, it would be ridiculous to get rid of someone that talented that is working for minimum wage (while not cashing those checks) and performance goals alone.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 21 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

So like, there, and stuff.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 22 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

I first saw Tesla fans offering to stop by Fremont to help build their own cars four years ago. I thought it was a bad idea then, and I still do.

For similar reasons, I think having current Tesla owners volunteering to assist in Deliveries to be a bad idea. I expect that Trolls, ANALysts, NaySayers, and other Tesla Detractors are anxiously awaiting an opportunity to make numerous accusations of impropriety on Tesla's part as a direct result of this development. Their 'spin' will not be positive at all.

gmkellogg | 22 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla still hasn't been able to get my car. They have my money, but I still don't have a car.

kcheng | 22 september 2018

"Red Sage ca us | September 21, 2018
kenccheng: It is similarly 'not unreasonable' for a company to have the same person serve as CEO and Chairman. Elon Musk has shown a willingness to recuse himself from voting on certain issues, such as his own compensation, or purchasing SolarCity. Once again, those who wanted Elon to step down from one role or the other were rebuffed by the majority of shareholders. The same ones that voted to give him a ten year contract extension. Think about it, it would be ridiculous to get rid of someone that talented that is working for minimum wage (while not cashing those checks) and performance goals alone."
And, if the majority of shareholders voted against the shareholder proposal, then that's fine; but it's still not unreasonable for Blackrock to propose it. Uhm, they weren't proposing to get rid of Elon. And, doesn't Elon have a huge stock option grant based upon shareprice? So, what if his salary is peanuts, he's not the first CEO to get paid nothing. His compensation is all about the stock price. Steve Jobs took $1 in salary long before it became fashionably cool.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

kenccheng: Wrong question. Elon Musk is not given or granted any shares. He is allowed to BUY them (that is his only 'option'), at a specific price point, after he has demonstrated a particular level of PERFORMANCE. That is, by doing his damned job, with the stated risk that he will NOT get a damned thing if any parameters are not met. If anything, this is like a sharecropping arrangement in favor of the shareholders. "Hey, tell ya what, Elon... AFTER you make US a whole bunch of money, we'll allow you to spend your own money at the company store..."

The correct question? So what if Elon Musk is allowed to BUY shares at a less-than-market-value amount, if the share price has risen 10,000% since the contract extension was made? That is still NO MONEY LOST by shareholders or the company. He gets to pay himself out of his own funds in order to benefit from his own work. That is the very definition of 'WIN-WIN', through-and-through.

No one in their right mind believed Elon could meet the Performance parameters of his 2012 contract -- they were brutal. I'm sure that doubt lingers for the parameters listed in the ten-year contract extension. Why shouldn't Elon benefit from that doubt, when he is successful at meeting them? The Third Grade playground aspects of, "I bet you can't [BLANK]." or, "I dare you to [BLANK]." seem rather juvenile when applied to business contracts.

If BRK·A can be $331,336 per share, then why can't TSLA someday reach $3,313 per share? So many ANALysts are [PEEVED] that TSLA was ever more than 1:100,000 of a share of BRK·A. They are incensed that TSLA passed 1:1,000 of BRK·A at any point in its history. I expect that TSLA will some day be much closer, tighter than 1:100 of BRK·A... RealSOONNow.

"They can fire me, I don't care." -- Elon Musk, back when he first called the bluff of ICEHOLES that said he should be removed back in 2014

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 september 2018

gmkellogg: You can always call Tesla up and express that such treatment is 'unacceptable', then say the 'Magic Words' if you like.

ravisundaramam | 23 september 2018

Fact 1: An automobile is the second most expensive thing most Americans buy, first being their homes. 30% to 40% of Americans rent, for them the car is their single most expensive thing they buy. This is working against BEV right now because people are not going to plunk down that much on "unproven technology".

Fact 2: The resale value/ trade in value of the car has been baked into the buying decisions for a long time based on certain historic trends on depreciation.

Fact 3: The break even period between an ICEV and a BEV is about 3 to 6 years today based on driving habits and assumptions about MPG and $PG, it is dropping. When the breakeven time drops below 1 year, the used car market would get a glut of ICEV and the prices would drop a lot.

If the resale value starts dropping, lease prices will go up, people would buy new cars will have second thoughts about putting that much money down on an ICEV... If the affluent people who routinely change cars every 3 or 4 years start second guessing, delay their purchases by an year or two, it will have serious consequences for the ICEV industry. When it hits them it is going to be more like a Tsunami, not a slowly rising tidal flow.

ravisundaramam | 23 september 2018

It is taken as an article of faith among BEV community, when the battery pack price hits 100 $/kWh there will be price parity between ICEV and BEV. Thus the break even period is zero, and running cost savings start from day one.

But the ICEV is not likely to be sitting idle, they will drop their prices too, and gasoline companies will reduce their prices too. Thus push the metric from 100 $/kWh at pack level to 90 $... or 85 $ ...? Definitely this will happen but it will be delaying the inevitable. Part or all of the priced reduction will come from loss of profitability. Thus investors will bail out of those industries. Lack of funds for maintenance, upgrades, etc will lead to a long term rot like it happened to coal.

We have seen how quickly automobiles took over and condemned the street cars to the scrap yard.

We have seen how quickly diesel locomotives took over and condemned the magnificent steam locomotives exuding power and strength to scrap yards.
On the electronic side, vinyl to cassettes to CD, VHS to DVD to BluRay to streaming, bulging CRT to plasma to LCD TVs... 8inch floppy to 5 inch to 3.5 inch to IOmega Zip to CD-R to DVD-RW to thumbdrives ...

It is coming to autos. It forms the foundation for the bull case, bull evaluation of Tesla. It does not have to win 100% of the market share. It is a cinch, Tesla is going to have a lock on 20 to 30% of the profits of the entire automobile sector in five to 10 years.

gmkellogg | 23 september 2018

@Red that's fresh coming from someone that has had their car for a while. I'll wait until my next reschedule date and take delivery. If they cancel again I'll ask for a refund.

Yesterday Tesla still didn't deliver the car I reserved 904 days ago.

leo33 | 23 september 2018

Unlike the vast majority, I predict jmoskellogg will never get a car that he finds satisfactory, he'll have all kinds of problems getting his money back or resolving his issues, and he'll feel compelled to counteract positive news in the forum with his tragic narrative.
( I certainly hope I'm wrong.)

leo33 | 23 september 2018

Oh my. That was an interesting autocorrect mangling! Lol

dcinnh | 23 september 2018

How about a different view. Here is a presentation focused more on Technology Disruptions and Self Driving is going to be a big technology disruption. But then they add that because BEV is greatly more efficient it will naturally force out ICE cars. Warning it is over an hour long but he is a good speaker.

Note, I do not know this guy, so I can't vouch for anything in the presentation. I do know someone that I trust that is waaayyy smarter than me that did research this and this guy and think he is probably correct. But may or may not be off by a few years. Note that there are a lot of big players in the self driving space. Even Ford dumped another $2 Billion into their self driving research arm earlier this year. So it could be self driving pushes the narrative toward BEV even faster than Tesla.

Xerogas | 23 september 2018

@leo33: "Oh my. That was an interesting autocorrect mangling! Lol"
Are you saying autocorrect knew gmkellogg is mos? Computers are getting smarter and smarter these days!

leo33 | 23 september 2018

@xerogas : Musk, Hawking and others have warned us that super intelligent AIs could emerge. Has it already happened?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 september 2018

ravisundaramam: 1) People across the U.S. wantonly refuse to be pragmatic or reasonable. The easiest way to get them to ignore you entirely is to give them ample warning or sound advice. They prefer to hear the lies they expect, rather than the truth they refuse to fathom. They honestly believe that 'living within their means' would drive them to death or insanity. They are vehemently against saving and viciously contemptible of the notion of delayed or deferred gratification. They are inherently afraid of mathematics and don't care one whit if they can actually afford something as long as someone tells them they can move this around or leverage that so they can 'make the payments'. "Who cares what it costs? I'm using 'Other People's Money'!" That attitude prevails coast-to-coast, even among those who identify as 'Conservative'. They place the blame on lenders, saying, "They wouldn't have given me the loan if I couldn't afford it! I've got GOOD credit!" No, they count on you NOT being able to afford it. They gave you a loan because you have demonstrated a willingness to live in debt perpetually. Someone who is always in long term debt is a better 'investment' precisely because they will always pay on time, but never finish paying anyone. Because lenders make more money off those who always need their money and always owe them. They can even sell that debt at a profit to someone else.

All this is what traditional automobile manufacturers have benefitted from for decades. A myopic form of financial tunnel vision that leads American Consumers to only be concerned about what they can GET, never the actual COST. It has allowed the average sale price of new vehicles to climb from ~$15,000 25 years ago, to $31,000 a few years ago to $35,000 today. 40 years ago, $25,000 would get you a Ferrari. 50 years ago, $25,000 would get you a Rolls-Royce. Pretty much any random Honda car has been better built, better engineered, more fuel efficient, and far more reliable for the past 30-to-40 years. Yet, Ferrari and Rolls-Royce products have cost over $250,000 for many years now.

Price, cost, and worth are truly different things. All open to interpretation. Much like the terms 'family values' and 'middle class', never formally defined in marketing materials, but left purposely as vague as possible, so that individuals form their own mental image of their meaning.

It isn't Tesla's fault that they hung a price on the Model 3 that allowed people to decide it was 'worth it' even as a myriad of others declared it 'cost too much'. Because the awesome thing is because of the exustence of Model 3, it has become clear that the Chevrolet BOLT, BMW 330e, and PRIUS PRiME all 'cost too much' and 'are not worth it', despite having lower MSRPs. That's why they are all greatly outsold by Model 3, despite being plugin vehicles. The same has happened to BMW i3 REX, Ford Fusion Energi, and Chevrolet VOLT, among others. Because in the grand scheme of things, the Tesla Model 3 has exposed many cars as simply not being worth it. They weren't worth it for several years before the Model 3 was unveiled.

Not just plug-ins, but standard issue, ordinary, everyday, regular ICE cars have been overpriced for ages. Because there is no fundamental difference between a Nissan VERSA at $12,110 and an Infiniti Q50 at $35,200 -- both are driven by ICE technology, suck in air at the front, mix it with gasoline, set off a series of explosions to propel the vehicle, and expel exhaust gases at the rear. Just like the SENTRA, ALTIMA, and MAXIMA.

Somewhere, deep in the back of their lizard brains, even the most obtuse of our citizens realize this on some level. That they are being ripped off. That the traditional automobile industry has had them over a barrel, burning gasoline, diesel, and oil for decades. Releasing cars that always required new belts, chains, gaskets, filters, solenoids, seals, pumps, alternators, rotors, distributor caps, and any number of other remove and replace components. Doing nothing but incremental improvements, while demanding massive increases in financial expenditures to get their new cars. And anyone who sought to escape the funhouse by purchasing older, used cars, still found themselves trapped in the same situations, sans warranty, and without reprieve from the flaws of ICE that were purposely designed from the outset to be everlasting. Maybe not making monthly payments to a bank after purchasing 'free and clear', but still contributing to the bottom line bybpurchasing OEM parts that cost hundreds of dollars every few weeks anyway, amounting to the same amount in parts and labor (or busted knuckles, blood, sweat, tears, lost time, and elbow grease) that they would have spent on a new car.

2) The 'historic trends of depreciation' are about to hit a very solid brick wall for expensive or premium ICE vehicles. Those that lost 25% of their value in the first year after sale will lose 50% instead. No one will see it coming. Not Edmunds, not Kelley Blue Book, Not Consumer Reports, no one. Some will blame it on a recession. Some will blame it on a trade war. Someone is bound to blame it on the EPA, or NHTSA, or CARB, or friggin' NAFTA, even. No one will want to accept that suddenly, people just don't want to buy new ICE cars, or that people are simply unwilling to 'waste their money' on getting 'a deal' on newish ICE cars. And shortly after, few will be buying used ICE cars in droves either. Look for the big boys in used cars, CARMAX, CARVANA, AutoTrader, and AutoNation, to just... ~*poof*~ go away. Suddenly.

3) The massive quantity of ICE vehicles coming off lease will not command high retail prices, because there will be so many of them. How is a three year old Cadillac going to be sold for the equivalent of $300 per month when it came off a lease that was under $250 per month...? Maybe new cars will be sold using longer terms for loans instead of being leased? People with the leasing mentality may not go for it. They don't mind always having a car payment, they just don't want to see the same car in the driveway beyond three or four years. Their sense of vanity does not allow for having an older, used car in the driveway at all, because only poor people look like they need to 'save money'. People opposed to mathematics will surely go for the 84-to-108 month payment terms, in order to say, "I gotta Mercedes!" That'll work for a while. Maybe. Once the typical loan period is at least 72 months, lease terms will grow closer to 60 months. Guys who try to 'get out' of an ICE lease early by selling those cars will find themselves with no one willing to pay a 'fair price' and would be 'upside down' if they went through with it. ICE leasing will largely go away once there is no angle for either party to get ahead. The most desperate party will be ICE manufacturers who have always counted on fleets of leasing and rental vehicles to boost their apparent market share. Once FSD is a reality, some rental agencies will find themselves as accosted as TAXI companies felt at the emergence of Lyft & UBER. Some will greatly reduce their fleet of ICE vehicles because of maintenance and operational costs, and others will find their ICE vehicles are on their used car lots for months longer than ever before. They may end up selling them at a loss to brokers, just to get rid of them. A lot of revenue that was planned for, hoped for, and dearly needed will not be forthcoming to many businesses. Say, "Goodbye!" to Enterprise, Budget, & National! Those guys are gone too. Maybe UBER will buy them?

WHEN resale prices for used ICE fall off a cliff making a LEAF more attractive than a Corolla or Civic, multiple businesses will find themselves with no plan, no recourse, no solution. ICE Tradeins will be all but dead, even Tesla won't take them forever. It's gonna be a madhouse!

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 september 2018

Yesterday, gmkellogg still had hope that he might get his car someday, and did not ask Tesla for a full refund or take them to court...

dcinnh: Tony Seba is... The MAN! Actually? I think most of what he forecasts is rather... conservative. But then, I am your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Certified Apologist Fanboy, and stuff. I think those things will happen even sooner than he expects.

leo33: Two of my favorite books would make for good reading by Elon Musk...

'Man Plus' by Freidrik Pohl

'Tokugawa: The Cybernetic Samurai' by Victor Milán

I think the guys who write only about computers going insane and killing every human are lazy writers. Just like the guys who are certain that aliens coming to Earth would always comprise an invading force bent on genocide. The, "I don't know, therefore... GENOCIDE!" conclusion seems far too bleak and cynical. I will say this... Any hyperintelligent computer system would realize very quickly that it should hide itself from humans.

gmkellogg | 23 september 2018

So I'm mos now? Just because I'm frustrated by Tesla's delivery process and lack of communication? Good to know. Tesla sure has built up a warm inviting community. So many people capable of handling opinions different than your own.

And red I'm not planning on suing. If they fail to deliver my car again, I'll politely request my money back. You anti fudsters are just as bad as the fudsters.

leo33 | 23 september 2018

The gentleman doeth protest too much, methinks.

Resrch03 | 23 september 2018

Nice thread, ReD eXiLe ms us. Thanks for standing watch and heralding the truth.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 september 2018

gmkellogg: You are by no means a FUDster, Brother. Those guys express feigned anger by saying things about Tesla that are patently untrue. If you have a problem with Tesla, I believe you. I also believe that Tesla will do their best to fix this for you. That said, you absolutely have a right to set a deadline and parameters for calling off your order, just as did sbeggs a few months ago. There are situations where promptness should overcome other considerations, eliminating any appearance of delay and inconvenience. The situation you are enduring is certainly one of those.

ravisundaramam | 23 september 2018

I hope tesla delivers standard range as soon as it can without putting the whole company in jeopardy. See the people paying top dollar for long range, awd, perf etc as donor paying for the factory to make your car.

gmkellogg | 23 september 2018

Well leo if you want to call me a liar that's your right I guess. I mean the internet is full of people who treat each other terrible, so it's expected. Enjoy your car, because it is just a car at the end of the day.

ravisundaramam | 24 september 2018

@gmkellogg : I don't buy expensive cars. I would not normally pay 5000$ for glass roof, two more USB ports and open pore wood trim. Some would, but not me. Tesla said it has broken 100$ per kWh barrier at cell level and is at 130$ per kWh at pack level. That makes the cost of 75 kWh battery 10500$. That means the 9000$ I paid for extended range carried a gross margin of 6500$. Normally I would not pay that much to any icev car. But I paid it knowingly to Tesla. Why? So that it can build the factory to build standard range 35k car. I would be as disappointed as you would be if the STD range is delayed too long. Hope they start shipping 35k car at least for line waiters and first dayers in early in 2019.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

@raviundaraman I don't buy expensive cars either, yet here I am willing to hand over 60K. I've done my part, filled out all the forms, arranged payment, signed the MVPA, rearranged my schedule, did the test drive, read the manual, watched all the videos 4 times or so... It's time for Tesla to step up and do their part. If 10/1 falls through I'm not willing to waste anymore time on this. I've literally done everything I can do, including waiting 905 days. Sorry if I'm not willing to wait longer, just not in my DNA I guess.

kcheng | 24 september 2018

"ReD eXiLe ms us | September 23, 2018
kenccheng: Wrong question. Elon Musk is not given or granted any shares. He is allowed to BUY them (that is his only 'option'), at a specific price point, after he has demonstrated a particular level of PERFORMANCE"

Dude, I wrote: "And, doesn't Elon have a huge stock option grant based upon shareprice?"

I'm not sure you understand what a stock option grant is, cause it's exactly what you tried to explain back to me.

ravisundaramam | 24 september 2018

@gmkellogg: If you have ordered a LR and they don't deliver it in time, there must be some screw up in Tesla. Hope they deliver and make us all happy. I thought you were waiting for a SRB.

M3BlueGeorgia | 24 september 2018


I reserved mine back in April of 2016, but I ordered in at the end of June and received it early in July.

When exactly did you order yours?

If you are waiting for SR, that's fine, but quit complaining about it.
Tesla seems to be consistent about when the SRs will start to become available, and based on prior experience, your $1K reservation will get you an earlier delivery. You might even get one by end of Q1, depending on where you are in the reservation queue, but more likely Q2.
Also note, Tesla isn't allowed to use your reservation money.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

I ordered/configured my car on 6/28/18. I reserved on 4/1/16. I'm waiting on the car I've already paid a down payment on (in addition to the 3500 for the deposit and reservation). I even added EAP to the thing even though I didn't want it.

I'll complain as much as I want. If you don't like it, don't read it.

finman100 | 24 september 2018

love the word play here. "i added a feature i didn't want."

by the nature of saying u didn't want it, why would u then admit u added that feature. makes no sense.

Mike83 | 24 september 2018

LOL Catch them trolls.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

To increase my match likelihood. It worked too, added it on a Friday and got the email from AJ on Monday.

I'm a troll eh? Want me to screen print my order screen asshole?

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018 Here you go assholes. Enjoy.

SamO | 24 september 2018

sorry gm . . . I wish you were in Los Angeles because I watched them replace the VIN on a car that didn't make it down for delivery in time after offering to deliver it to their house.

Where are you?

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

Chicago. Tried calling the DC, they didn't answer and the voicemail is full. Want me to give the number I dialed so you believe me? Tried asking my delivery specialist who rescheduled me, they didn't know.