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FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

FACT CHECKING COUNTDOWN: An Anti-FUD, Anti-Troll Theorem Thread

● FEAR -- Fear that Tesla is in fact some sort of scam that is pushing the Green Agenda for nefarious purposes...
-- Fear that you might be counted among the number of FOOLS that have been led astray by pie-in-the-sky 'promises' that are certain to NEVER happen...
● UNCERTAINTY -- Uncertainty that Tesla's cars will ever be viable for more than a handful of months or years and that the batteries will die practically overnight then be ridiculously expensive to replace...
-- Uncertainty that anything Tesla builds will be 'worth the money' in any way, without the traditional styling, commitment to craftsmanship, attention to detail, and dedication to heritage that 'everyone else' claims to excel in...
-- Uncertainty that you may have fallen under the spell of a fast talking flim-flam man, shyster, or lying con artist who has preyed upon your deepest hopes to deceive you...
● DOUBT -- Doubt that Tesla will be around to handle warranty concerns after they go out of business in disgrace following the shenanigans of Elon Musk are inevitably exposed for the manipulative lies they've always been...
-- Doubt that Tesla has the expertise to do anything at all they claim to be planning...

These are the tools that Trolls use to spread their Theorem, Thesis, & Theatrical displays of alarm and warning that nothing anyone hears about Tesla that is in the slightest bit positive can be trusted at face value. They tell anyone that listens that supporters of Elon Musk and/or Tesla are 'blind followers' that don't know any better, steeple that have fallen under the spell of a master manipulator and complete liar. A false leader with the sole goal of selling his lies as fact to gullible followers.

Trolls have suggested for several years that Tesla is destined to go out of business 'any day now'. Some of the most famous Trolls are Anton Wahlman, Edward Niedermier, Keefe Wivaneff, and others.

Crap. Deleted my post by mistake. Starting over with an earlier save...

Anyway, lost a good bit of what I had written before. Since HIM666 refuses to specify when Tesla is 'going out of business' I'll assume that since his previous guesses were wrong (he indicated multiple times between October 2017 and March 2018 that Tesla would 'run out of money and go bankrupt within two quarters'), he might choose a time frame in the relative near future to be wrong this time. So, he would likely claim that no one, anywhere, will order or receive the base, Standard Range Model 3 prior to January 1, 2019, and also claim that Tesla will file bankruptcy on, by, or before March 31, 2019.

We'll see.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

and by the way the image isn't "doctored" they actually owe me 6700 dollars because they over withdrew my ACH payment by the same amount as my trade in. They're working on that though.

SamO | 24 september 2018

Not questioning your credibility, but just sharing an observation. I'd suggest you call the 800 number and try an end-around to speak directly to your delivery center. Or just show up and ask for a car. I think they'll give you one.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

I was thinking of heading over there tomorrow, but I already arranged for my bank to cut the check on Monday. Like I said, I don't mind waiting until Monday, but I'm not going to wait any longer.

ravisundaramam | 24 september 2018

@gmkellogg. Technically you are not waiting for the car you ordered since 2016 May.

The 1000$ is basically a reservation fee. Jun 2018 is your order date. So you have been waiting for 3 months.

The delay in response, debiting without looking at trade in value do not look good. Hope these are just growing pains and soon Tesla will get this done right. They cleaned up the panel gaps, whistling noise, rear seats etc. I am sure they will fix all this soon.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

I'm not unreasonable, I'm not even mad about the withdrawal thing if they make things right. People make mistakes, I get that. It's the lack of communication and misinformation that's really getting me annoyed. Be honest, majority of people can take it. If you want to delay cars that cost less in order to meet Q3 numbers, fine...I get it. Be honest about it though, don't keep feeding me a line that reservation and order dates matter.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 24 september 2018

kcheng: Oops. My bad. I misread your post, thinking you said Tesla had granted shares to Elon Musk. They did not. Yes, he will get to BUY shares at a negotiated price point, WHEN he manages to do... 'The IMPOSSIBLE', and not before. I know the word 'grant' has another connotation, that works in your sentence, I just thought you meant it a different way. In the words of my good Friend...

"Welcome to the limitations of communicating over the internet with a keyboard." -- Joker

Sometimes even I forget to read ALL the words. ;-)

Mike83 | 24 september 2018

Gosh. No one is Perfect? shocking.

gmkellogg | 24 september 2018

Oh look at that, Mike is doubling down.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 24 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

Further, gmkellogg continued to be perfectly reasonable, if not infinitely patient.

Mike83: Oh, I'm not perfect at anything except being me. I have an issue with queries that begin with assumptive negatives such as 'wouldn't', 'couldn't', 'didn't', or 'shouldn't'... They sort of mess with my brain and stuff.

So, I may not bother to completely dissect them prior to answering. I should work on that. I usually assume they are rhetorical and skip them entirely. I hate rhetorical questions. They sort of mess with my brain and stuff.

Like, when Yoda speaks in perfect Spanish. ;-)

Mike83 | 24 september 2018

Habla Espanol? Your posts are state of the art.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 24 september 2018

Mike83: Sí, un poquito. I should have learned Spanish decades ago. Some years ago, a coworker who was based in our Mexico City Branch explained that it wasn't necessary to speak a foreign language as well as you speak your native language. She said you only really need to speak one as well as a two-year-old might in order to effectively communicate. She spoke three or four languages, while I basically speak English as a Sole Language, so I expect she is correct. I do hate feeling illiterate when I can't read signs written in French, Korean, Japanese, or Chinese, though.

Mike83 | 25 september 2018

Red. I worked in Germany and everyone wanted to speak English to me but I did learn some German traveling especially in Turkey where German was spoken in many places. I've traveled through many countries and picked up some words in several languages. Recently I got into watching some Korean movies like Mr. Sunshine which has good historical background. Chinese, Spanish, Arabic, and Hindi are the most spoken languages.
I noticed that Tesla Superchargers are in many countries including Mexico(I wish they would have some in Baja) and would like to travel there.
But back to the topic I found a very comprehensive article written by a German Auto Engineer that covers Tesla and the illusions of the industry leaders who are in trouble. The news of Tesla killers should be Tesla is killing the ICE industry which people like Lutz don't want to see.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/25/tesla-an-uncomfortable-wake-up-call...

A long article but very informative and it should make the shorts and naysayers tremble.

Mike83 | 25 september 2018

Forgot to add English which is third of the most spoken languages but Chinese tops the next three combined!

Magic 8 Ball | 25 september 2018

No need to speak. Just yell and point!

ravisundaramam | 25 september 2018

"Forgot to add English which is third of the most spoken languages but Chinese tops the next three combined!"

English is the most widely spoken language. For example there are more Bengali speakers than French or German. But concentrated in just eastern India, though small pockets exist in many parts of the world. Similarly other Indian languages Telugu, Tamil, Hindi etc have speakers matching European languages. But they are not widespread. Same with Chinese. Outside China the density is very low.

But English, is working its way everywhere. My mother tongue is Tamil and many conservatives are dismayed by the number of English words being (mis)used by the rural folk. Their concern is the loss of Tamil vocabulary. My concern is all those abuses and misuses will eventually be accepted as the norm by OED due to sheer repetition and volume.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 25 september 2018

"The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is widely regarded as the accepted authority on the English language. It is an unsurpassed guide to the meaning, history, and pronunciation of 600,000 words— past and present—from across the English-speaking world."

Ah. So that's what 'OED' means. You learn something new every day, if you pay attention.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 25 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

If anyone has data that disputes this, please feel free to provide references for all to review.

SamO | 25 september 2018

Tesla Board Member Kimbal Musk:

"Tesla is doing a great job. If you have a Model 3 and you'd like it delivered, we can probably get done for you by the end of the week. If we haven't reached out to you, reach out to us."

https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1044609520343928833

Rocky_H | 25 september 2018

@ReD, My dad is an English prof, and when I was growing up, (back before the internet), he picked up a used actual hardback edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. It was in this stand-up case, kind of like how you have boxed sets of DVDs in, right? And it was two huge physical books, side-by-side, and at the top of the case was a little slide-out drawer that had a magnifying glass in it (no joke), because they had to use such small print to fit it in those two big volumes.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 26 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired. Apparently, he does think that traveling to the Moon is good practice for travelng to Mars or other celestial bodies. I've only agreed with that idea since I was eight. Of course, by that time, we weren't going to the Moon anymore...

Rocky_H: According to Microsoft Word, I have a horrible grasp of grammar and syntax within the English language. Anything I write using it is immediately filled with Green squiggly lines.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 27 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

I think that Nikki from TransportEvolved makes very good points that are nevertheless completely wrong.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 28 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

The latest FUD is that Elon Musk 'may be' removed as CEO at Tesla as a penalty resulting from an SEC probe into his teeets regarding his consideration of taking Tesla private. Ugh. He was just given a ten year contract extension. Someone moved to have a different persio serve as CEO and/or Chairman at Tesla, and that idea was panned by shareholders. One of many penalties that 'may be" imposed in an SEC case is that a person could be barred from holding an executive position with a publicly traded company, but it seems to be a rare happenstance. It is more likely someone will be removed by an internal vote of shareholders, and that hasn't happened.

Somebody, somewhere, really wants Elon Musk to consider employment somewhere other than Tesla. I wonder why? Could it be his penchant for snatching victory from the jaws of apparent defeat?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 29 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

I should probably accept that not everyone here is as well versed in the annihilation, confrontation, and eradication of FUD as I've become.

Nah.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 30 september 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

Though yeah, I have seen reports that Elon has resigned one of his official positions at Tesla. I'll have to find a trustworthy source to learn what is really going on there. Reports are that this is the result of a settlement of the SEC suit.

Strange the timing of this. I look forward to Tesla's Q3 2018 report. Even as they celebrate having finally 'got him', I think NaySayers will be very sad forthe rest of the year and the next decade.

OROCHIzc | 1 oktober 2018

Tesla could be profitable anytime Elon Musk wants it to be.

He just has a bigger vision to lead the whole industry so he keeps putting money back in for the infrastructures.

Anyone who thought Tesla will be out of business is simply not paying attention to what really happens. For whatever purpose, they only care about the P/L.

Also, thanks to that settlement with SEC, $40+/share gain over the weekend. Yeah~~

ReD eXiLe ms us | 1 oktober 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

So, unlike a certain CEO of Volkswagen, Tesla's CEO is not cooling his heels in prison. How nice!

OROCHIzc: I admit to being a bit of a 'hardliner' when it comes to conceding points. That said, it seems that the strategy of 'giving in' and 'settling under pressure' has worked to Tesla's advantage, for now.

I still find the entire SEC thing, from accusation to resolution, to be complete bull$#!+, though. See, much the same points about 'pick your battles' and 'take the WIN' were said when Tesla got States like Colorado, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York to give some ground allowing for limited expansion without a complete ban of direct sales. But I knew back then that Tesla would definitely grow beyond the limitation to 2, 4, or 5 locations within those States. Tesla just wanted to 'get their foot in the door' at each place, but the 'compromise' was too lopsided from the start.

I feel this settlement also remains too ambiguous. It is nice that Tesla is now 'free and clear' of these SEC 'violations', 'claims', or 'charges'... But I would have preferred that Tesla come through completely exonerated.

I think the SEC should have finished with egg on its face. There should not have been any penalties at all. And though neither Tesla nor Elon Musk have to admit wrongdoing, the fact this was 'settled' instead of tried in open court leaves Elon looking like a 'bad boy' who is now under supervised double secret probation without just cause.

I just hope this doesn't open up some back door can of worms to gum up the works for Tesla in some as yet unforeseen fashion.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2 oktober 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

Does anyone know why [SINKING ANCHOR] articles are still classified as 'news' by Google search? I suspect their advertising is served from Google's ad services. There seems to be no way to block those pages permanently on Chrome mobile.

OROCHIzc | 2 oktober 2018

Looking back from now, what Elon said 10 years ago was truly remarkable. It's unimaginable how hard it was not only fighting against other car makers in the market but also dealing with these politics bullsh!t throughout the whole time. SEC picked this time for the charge merely because Tesla is one of the biggest shorted company and they knew the shorters will keep losing money when Tesla announces it's Q3 sales number and profit. So they created this little Window for the shorters to get out.

It's not in my position to judge which side is right, but at least it's quite unfair for Elon because our president tweets way more irresponsible sh!ts and yet didn't get accused for any of that!

ReD eXiLe ms us | 2 oktober 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired.

OROCHIzc: The political angle was pretty much guaranteed to happen one way or the other. This was expected. The same dirty tricks and tactics had been used before, with both TUCKER and DeLOREAN. When you don't have the skill or the will to innovate, you make phone calls and call in favors. You get someone else to do your dirty work, with or without evidence.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 3 oktober 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired. Oh yeah, he didn't quit either.

And none of the major traditional automobile manufacturers made a commitment to produce more than 1% of their annual output as fully electric vehicles at any point within the next decade.

That is all.

SamO | 3 oktober 2018

Not a single car company is proposing a vehicle that competes in range or quickness with the cars Tesla delivered in 2012, let alone anything they've built in the last 12 months.

OROCHIzc | 3 oktober 2018

We all should realize that Tesla is just one part of Elon's master plan. Driving EV powered by the renewable energy from its Solar Panel in the underground transportation system. Extra energy will be stored in Tesla PowerWall battery. Well, on Mars, of course, brought by the big rocket fits 100 people.

Telsa is never Elon's purpose, at least not the final goal. He makes it so fast, so affordable just to grow the company and achieve his wildest dream. The other car companies, they just got scared of losing their share of the market, or even the whole market. Therefore they are either trying to sabotage Tesla's reputation or declare they are working on some type of Tesla Killer to pull the public's attention away from Tesla. At the end of the day, with a wrong purpose, I don't believe they will be able to get any sh!t done.

I saw a video comparing Tesla M3 with BMW i3. With the same price tag, Tesla is winning in almost every category. The end result? BMW discontinued the i3

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 oktober 2018

Yesterday, Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired. Oh yeah, he didn't quit either.

How many months, quarters, years will pass before the imminent collapse of Tesla finally happens, as predicted by ANALysts years ago to happen 'any day now'? How much longer before traditional automobile manufacturers show Tesla how it's really done, 'anytime they want to', as stated by NaySayers? Faithfulness in the Church of Elon Must Fail seems everlasting for Trolls, who refuse to acknowledge how wrong they have been.

andy.connor.e | 4 oktober 2018

IF, BUT, STILL

andy.connor.e | 4 oktober 2018

I'll tell you, that when i first even read a headline, i thought Elon had been fired of some sort. Then when i actually read into it, he was put in time out. Bad Elon.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 oktober 2018

andy.connor.e: I probably wouldn't have quite as much disdain for authority figures if they weren't so apt to make stupid decisions that are purposely unfair.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 6 oktober 2018

Yesterday, and the day before,Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired. Oh yeah, he didn't quit either.

The Tesla Model 3 finished Q3 2018 as the fifth best selling passenger vehicle of the Quarter in the United States of America as well as the fourth best selling passenger car in the U.S. for the month of September 2018. NaySayers like to discount those statistics, by saying that SUVs and Crossovers are 'more popular' and that Tesla only reached that milestone this early because Sedan sales have declined so much in recent years, the past year in particular. They say that Tesla 'made a mistake' by designing Model 3 as a Sedan instead of a Crossover or SUV. That seems a good point, a practical, pragmatic consideration, until you realize they are flat out wrong.

Because, not only did theTesla Model 3 outsell 133 of 137 passenger cars during September 2018, they also outsold 106 of 111 SUVs that month.

SEPTEMBER 2018 U.S. SALES OF SUVs vs Tesla Model 3
(At least 10,000 units)
QTY ______ VEHICLE
37,440 ___ Toyota RAV4
34,842 ___ Nissan Rogue
30,587 ___ Honda CR-V
25,663 ___ Chevrolet Equinox
23,836 ___ Jeep Cherokee
22,250 ___ Tesla Model 3
21,986 ___ Toyota Highlander
22,347 ___ Ford Explorer
20,398 ___ Ford Escape
19,312 ___ Jeep Grand Cherokee
16,525 ___ Jeep Compass
15,983 ___ Jeep Wrangler
15,464 ___ Honda Pilot
13,453 ___ Subaru Forester
12,895 ___ Subaru Outback
12,376 ___ Subaru CrossTrek
12,133 ___ Toyota 4Runner
10,825 ___ Chevrolet Traverse
10,646 ___ Hyundai Tucson
10,538 ___ Mazda CX-5
10,162 ___ Hyundai Santa Fe

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/september-2018-ytd-u-s-suv-and-cros...

The Tesla Model 3 is undoubtedly a mass market vehicle. This trend will continue through this year, next year, and beyond. This is absolutely sustainable, not 'just a fad, and not 'just the backlog' at work here. This is a real, fundamental shift in buying patterns. One that NaySayers denied was possible before, and still deny while it is happening before their eyes.

Some NaySayers will point to percentage of sales overall, saying Model 3 market share is 'insignificant'. I'm sure Tesla's market share is not insignificant either to those who have never been able to achieve it, or who have lost that much because Tesla is now on the scene. Also, there is the fact that Tesla's market share is growing, even as it shrinks for other, much older and more experienced automobile manufacturers... That point is continually overlooked by NaySayers.

The biggest point of complaint by consumers seems to be that it takes longer to take Delivery of their cars, especially in States that actively block Tesla's expansion and ability to sell direct by law, than they wiuld prefer. Well, surprise! Tesla sells about as many vehicles per month as Volkswagen through only about 1/6th as many locations. And VW has claimed a need to expand from ~650 locations to ~750 dealerships for the past five years without result.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 7 oktober 2018

Yesterday, and the day before,Tesla didn’t file for bankruptcy and did NOT go out of business.

Also, Elon Musk was not indicted, arrested, arraigned, tried, or convicted of anything criminal at all. Neither was he fired. Oh yeah, he didn't quit either.

I still don't understand the targeted opposition toward Tesla's success by so many forces in the U.S. So many seem intent upon exposinv the company as a 'fraud' but haven't managed to do so in any meaningful way despite several years of attempts. Instead, in the midst of their railings all they are able to bring forth is their own perpetrations of fraud, disguised as pragmatic 'concern' that what they see as an inattentiveness to the 'quality' of execution for relatively minor cosmetic 'defects' are somehow 'signs' of looming disaster. That is the very essence of non sequitur -- 'it does not follow' at all.

Whenever such 'issues' or 'concerns' have arisen, with either cosmetics or safety, Tesla has consistently acknowledged and fixed them in short order.

When it was said that using a centralized 15" widescreen as the main focus for information and data was a 'dangerous distraction' for Model 3, Tesla wisely ignored that, knowing full well it was complete bull$#!+. Sure enough, the grand majority of owners have found they do not in fact need or miss a HUD or a speedometer behind the spokes of the steering wheel. There is no issue with Tesla's design decision in practice, only in theory among Trolls, Skeptics, Pessimists, and Contrarians -- collectively known as FUDsters.

When Autopilot was criticized for allowing owners to be lulled into a false sense of security about its abilities (demonstrated by people showing video of their doing stupid things with their cars, and the disastrous results when people did not follow explicit instruction to 'PAY ATTENTION AT ALL TIMES') Tesla reacted by instilling a series of 'nags' meant to ensure the driver was in place, ready to take over at a moment's notice. And, when those warnings are not heeded quickly (or consistently) enough, Autopilot would slowly (and safely) pull over, come to a stop, and engage the hazard lights. Something no other driver assist system is capable of doing.

When concerns were repeatedly raised about battery degradation, Tesla honored their warranty, replacing them as needed. And research has shown that FUDsters' claims that batteries would 'always' need to be replaced at the owner's expense 'every two or three years' or 'five years on the outside' as a 'rule of thumb' have been proven false in practice.

FEAR -- That Tesla produces an inordinate quantity of lemons compared to longstanding, profitable, reputable brands...? Bull$#!+.

UNCERTAINTY -- That Tesla will still be in business if/when 'something goes wrong...? Bull$#!+.

DOUBT -- That Tesla's business model is viable...? Bull$#!+.

Study Shows European Cars Most Likely to be a Lemon
https://lemonlawexperts.com/study-lemon-law-claims-data-us/

This is by no means a pro-Tesla article. Yet, given the parameters of the cited study, Tesla saw far less reports of lemons than AUDI, BMW, or Mercedes-Benz. (They had to change the parameters to lemons per 10,000 vehicles, instead of lemons per 1,000 vehicles, in a [failed] attempt to make Tesla look bad.)

Tesla Model 3 outsold the Toyota Corolla in September 2018 in the U.S. The Corolla is the best selling car in the world, and has been for at least three years straight, moving over 1,000,000 units per year worldwide. The Corolla is the best selling car of all time, introduced in 1966, it passed the Volkswagen Beetle sometime between 1997 and 2001 and has continued to add to its lead since then. Toyota sells on the order of 10,000,000 vehicles per year worldwide currently.

In both August and September 2018 Tesla Model 3 outsold every passenger car from Chevrolet, Kia, Volkswagen, Nissan, Ford, and Hyundai in the U.S. In September 2018 Tesla Model 3 was only outsold by five SUVs in the U.S....

SEPTEMBER 2018 U.S. SALES OF SUVs vs Tesla Model 3
QTY ______ VEHICLE
37,440 ___ Toyota RAV4
34,842 ___ Nissan Rogue
30,587 ___ Honda CR-V
25,663 ___ Chevrolet Equinox
23,836 ___ Jeep Cherokee
22,250 ___ Tesla Model 3

...and outsold 106 other SUVs. The writing os on the wall. This is not a 'fad' or an 'anachronism'.
This is real. It is happening.

Tesla is not going anywhere. Their business model is absolutely sustainable and viable. Direct sales of electric vehicles only to consumers without paid advertising or the use of 'independent franchised dealerships' for distribution.

The FUDsters are all fraudsters.

3LEKTRC | 7 oktober 2018

Pardon my ignorance, but what does FUDster mean please?

elecfan2 | 7 oktober 2018

Anyone who says anything negative about Tesla or their experience with Tesla products or services

Magic 8 Ball | 7 oktober 2018

FUD stands for Fear Uncertainty Doubt.

People that use those tools, to develop a narrative, are FUDsters. (They create and/or spread FUD)

Magic 8 Ball | 7 oktober 2018

The question I have is why, if someone claims to be pro-TESLA and want TESLA to succeed, would they say negative things, in public, about TESLA? If I have a beef with someone I care about I keep it private between us.

elecfan2 | 7 oktober 2018

Good question! Let's say all the folks who are having delivery problems don't say anything about their experience to anyone else because they're Tesla supporters...of course they are, they are early buyers of the Model 3 so the vast majority are pro-TESLA. Now, if Tesla keeps treating their customers they way they currently are, how do you think the general public is going to react when they start buying the Model 3? You think they are going to give Tesla time and deal with the run-around, hours of being on hold on the phone, disorganization by a company selling an expensive car? No, they'll dump Tesla the moment they are disrespected and go an buy an ICE car. Someone truly wanting to bring in the environmentally sustainable energy revolution would want Tesla to do better, they would express how things are not going the right way, they'd point out the flaws among those pro-TESLA fans who make up the majority of the folks on here to help Tesla get better. Hiding Tesla's flaws does them no favors and doesn't help them to grow.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 7 oktober 2018

3LEKTRC: I covered it in the Original Post, but here's a more concise version.

FUDster: Those that spread FUD regarding Tesla. In particular, FEAR, UNCERTAINTY, & DOUBT. These fraudsters attempt to cinvince readers they are merely realists, or being pragmatic, or exercising healthy skepticism in the interest if being a contrarian voice to what they perceive as an overly positive view of Tesla that could be dangerous. Those guys are lying.

Example?

ewd7 answered, "Anyone who says anything negative about Tesla or their experience with Tesla products or services"

Nope. People are critical of Tesla's products and services all the time, without becoming FUDsters. People relate their negative experiences all the time without becoming FUDsters. The difference is apparent in their level of sincerity and consistency. It shows in their use of logic instead of rhetoric, their application of fact instead of fiction, their presentation of verifiable evidence instead of unsubstatiated rumor, their use of calm, measured response instead of emotional tirades and unfair accusations.

Those who promote FUD would rather they were never challenged on points of logic, fact, evidence, or demeanor.

Magic 8 Ball | 7 oktober 2018

Your premise is completely flawed in the fact that many that have whined and cried and kicked and shouted on this forum have come back and said it was all worth it. The damage they caused (turning people off TESLA) in their whining and crying phase is not erased by coming back and saying it was all worth it. The whiners and cryers will rely on TESLA to be around for support yet they continue to shoot themselves, and their partner, in the foot at every opportunity.

It amusing to see how many have blinders on and fail to recognize TESLA is experimenting with ways to reinvent instead of trying to optimize a failing model that the car industry has been running for years. The "IF" scenarios all go back to trying to push TESLA into a failing business model. Look to the future and not to the past.

The FUDsters are mostly all pessimists that will take a few stories on the internet to be representative of what is going on instead of listening to the silence of the happy masses (over 100,000 now) that zooming around in thier awesome cars. Please let us know how many "all" that are having problems compare to the over 100,000 that are not reporting or making up stories about problems.

"All", "Everyone", Run Around, "Disorganization","Expensive" the list of word the FUDsters use are easily identified.

A few stories on the internet may show some disorganization but yet they manage to double the number of cars they deliver this quarter. There are hundreds and thousands of happy owners. Please count the total number of "horror" story posts on the internet and use that in a numerator above the denominator of total cars delivered and figure out if that is better, average, or worse, than industry.

3LEKTRC | 7 oktober 2018

ReD eXiLe ms us Thanks! Indeed upon re-reading the opening post I saw the FUD reference. Oops
Looking forward to someday getting my AWD LR !

ReD eXiLe ms us | 7 oktober 2018

ewd7: I have been coming to these forums for nearly five years. At no point have any of the most respected Tesla owners or enthusiasts ever directed, insisted, or suggested that people with problems 'hide' their issues from the public at large.

The furthest they have gone is to ask those with the mist venomous posts to please verify their ownership by posting the issue in a private thread that is visible to owners only, so that they might be discussed in private. This serves the purpose of both vetting someone as an actual owner instead of a Troll, while giving his/her posts the needed attention of longtime owners who may be able to offer advice and assistance, along with their own verified opinions.

Trolls and FUDsters invariably REFUSE to post such Private threads -- because they CAN'T. They will instead claim that no one here has the right to act as 'forum police' while hurling insults toward anyone who made a suggestion or offered an explanation.

There have been numerous Trolls caught in this conundrum, exposed for their attempt to plant 'evidence' of discontent within the Tesla forum. This was often done to support the 'lead' of an article on various financial news websites, that would link back to the page showing dissent here on the forum. In other cases, it was done to skew results from data mining, so that the majority of web crawlers and search robots would only find 'bad' information on Tesla online.

The practice isn't as fervent as it was in 2013 and 2014, but some guys still try. The worst culprits are those that copy and paste a valid complaint from weeks or months in the past, as a new post. Then act as if it is a 'new' issue that had never been resolved satisfactorily. The more pists they get, the more 'legitimate' their posts would seem, even if they filled it chock full of lies from their own random accounts.

Fact is, reports of actual issues, complaints, and problems are welcomed here. They are discussed in great detail. Tesla enthusiasts rejoice in their resolutiin and empathize with those who endure hardship in any way fir any reason.

Sometimes though, peolpe report 'priblems' that are very obviously fake to thise who actually own the cars. Those are called out as FUD immediately, as they should be. When someone complains that something is 'missing' when it had been present on every car sold for months or years? That is when the OP is advised to [ROMEO TANGO FOXTROT MIKE] or [GOLF TANGO FOXTROT OSCAR].

elecfan2 | 7 oktober 2018

<< Points to Magic 8 Ball's comment "The question I have is why, if someone claims to be pro-TESLA and want TESLA to succeed, would they say negative things, in public, about TESLA? If I have a beef with someone I care about I keep it private between us." and tries to reconcile it with ReD's "I have been coming to these forums for nearly five years. At no point have any of the most respected Tesla owners or enthusiasts ever directed, insisted, or suggested that people with problems 'hide' their issues from the public at large. "

You also didin't get my sarcasm as many people call people FUDsters whenever they say something negative about Tesla. FUD is people doing it for a different purpose, such as short sellers or those trying to harm Tesla. You calling me a FUDster, as you stated above, is proof that you and others will go to great lengths to tell people to G_T_F_O (as you so eloquently said above) because Tesla is growing and you don't want to hear other viewpoints or someone saying that Tesla is nothing short of perfect. That's the difference between Tesla Fans (which I count myself as one, maybe I haven't been spewing verbiage in this forum as long as you have) and Tesla Fanatics (those who would call anyone who "steps out of line" a FUDster). And yes, I'd consider myself an owner given that I've paid $3500 yet haven't received my car as of yet. So dismissing people's complaints is well, just Tesla Fanatics not wanting others in their little club.

As for people saying "It was all worth it", I'm sure I'll say the same thing. But I'm a Tesla fan, I'll put up with the crap and problems and early adopter problems because I understand that. But, if Tesla doesn't grow up and improve fast, they won't have the general public being so forgiving. So saying "people will say it's all worth it" just doesn't fly if you want to bring in environmentally sustainable transport and energy.

Magic 8 Ball | 7 oktober 2018

"But, if Tesla doesn't grow up and improve fast, they won't have the general public being so forgiving."

And this piece of FUD is supported, how, exactly? The couch sitting CEO's must be very wise to not have a multibillion, advanced technology, car company and be able to tell them what they need to do to be successful.

elecfan2 | 7 oktober 2018

My point delivered perfectly by the Magic 8 Ball. Don't agree, call 'em a FUDster. It's like this whole "Fake News" thing nowadays, don't agree call it "Fake News!".

My family and friends are following my purchase of a Tesla Model 3, they know I've been a fan of Elon Musk for years. They keep asking about the Model 3 I was supposed to get last week, and I have to explain the whole early adopting thing and they wouldn't understand. Their comments are that they would never take that from a company and would take their business elsewhere and that I'm an idiot for purchasing from a company that is disorganized and disrespectful of their customers.

I know you won't accept that as support, because nothing will keep you from your mission to squelch all criticism of Tesla. You are doing more harm than good to Tesla, and more importantly environmentally sustainable transport and energy. I don't want to see Tesla falter by ignoring regular folks like the above. You apparently do.

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