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To those upset about those complaining...

To those upset about those complaining...

Like many of you on this forum, I put down my $1,000 on March 31st, 2016. I ordered on April 15, 2018 because I was told I’d get my car in 4-6 weeks. There were delays and I missed out on a $3,000 tax break here in WA state that expired on May 31st. I dealt with the disappointment and moved on. I changed my order to AWD (which I had previously been willing to sacrifice for the WA tax incentive) and eventually received my car in September of 2018. There were some body issues and paint issues, and my car eventually spent a few weeks at a Tesla service center to get them sorted out, but overall, I love the car more than any other car I’ve ever had. My price for the car (silver with white interior and EAP) was $61,500. Subtracting the tax credit, I paid $54,000. The purchase price for a similar configuration is now $52,500, or $48,750 after the tax credit: $5,250 less than what I paid six months ago (and a $9,000 vehicle value difference once the tax credit has completely expired). I also get a few additional EAP features no longer a part of the new version of AP which are difficult to calculate the exact value of, but nowhere near the value change.

Once again, I love my car. I love Tesla. I even like Elon Musk. At the same time, I’m also disappointed that the value of my car has gone down by more than the normal depreciation that occurs when you drive a new car off the lot. I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Some of you keep comparing Tesla to other car manufacturers while also continually touting how different they are from other car manufacturers. Which is it? I’ve heard on these forums from some of you same people that one of the cool and unique things about Tesla is that you don’t have to haggle over price because they set their prices and that’s what everyone pays. I trusted (and perhaps my trust was misplaced, but it wasn’t completely unjustified) that if my car was $61,500 in 2018, it would be $61,500 or close to that in 2019.

Despite believing Tesla to be better and different, some of you have stated that other vehicle manufacturers’ prices go down year after year as justification for Tesla’s vehicle price drop. Personally, I’ve never purchased a car where the next year’s model of that car was cheaper. The price almost always goes up a little (new features and inflation usually contribute to this and is why people often purchase last year’s model when new models come out – it’s cheaper!). I’m sure there are exceptions, but it’s not the norm. Yes, there are sales here and there if you’re lucky to be ready to buy a new car when a sale is occurring, but one of the things I liked about Tesla was that they don’t normally do sales. If they did, I would have waited until a sale occurred.

As a matter of fact, Tesla urged customers incessantly to get their orders in by late last year to take advantage of the expiring tax credit. However, if they were simply going to lower the vehicle prices to make up for the lost tax credit, then doesn’t the urgency come across in hindsight as a bit insincere? I would have gladly waited until my lease was up on my previous vehicle (April of this year) to purchase an even cheaper version of my Model 3. I would have saved thousands on lease payments and thousands on my Model 3. I would have even had enough money to get the Performance model. However, all my calculations were based on Model 3 prices being constant due to Tesla urging customers to not miss out on the tax credit. The way they handled that was not an outright lie, but it sure seems a bit deceptive looking back.

It's also true, as some of you have stated, that a car in general isn’t a good investment. However, that doesn’t mean that we should be fine with it being devalued to this extent either. It can be somewhere in between. The devaluing of our current vehicles has made it a worse liability than it already was.

To those of you who think that those of us disappointed in the price reductions should be OK with paying more to be a part of transitioning the world from fossil fuels to electricity, surely that could also be done without hurting us financially. As much as I like Tesla and Tesla’s mission statement, I didn’t join a cult. I purchased a vehicle. I’d like to feel that as an early adopter, purchasing a vehicle I’d never seen nor driven, should be appreciated not just in word, but in deed as well. If my only objective in buying a Tesla was to help the transition to renewable energy, then I’d be mostly happy about Tesla’s vehicle price reductions, but again, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can be happy that Tesla is closer to moving the world in that direction by selling more affordable cars and also disappointed that it may eventually affect my bottom line.

To those of you who say that it doesn’t affect you if you’re going to keep your car forever, that’s true. However, most people don’t keep their cars forever, and at some point, it will affect them. If I want to trade in my car in 4 years, do you think the dealership is going to use the $61,500 starting price I paid or the $52,500 starting price? After all, it’s pretty much the exact same vehicle. The tax credit will be gone so that won’t even be a factor. Obviously, the longer you wait to sell or trade in your car, the less it will hurt you, but some people may come against financial hardship and will need to offload their Model 3 quicker than expected. I feel sorry for those people, and I hope I’m not one of them.

To those of you who are comparing a Tesla Model 3 to a box of Macaroni & Cheese at the store that goes on sale, you’re comparing apples to oranges. Ignoring what I said above about Tesla not being a company known for sales, Mac & Cheese is gone after you eat it. You’re not ever going to sell that box of Mac & Cheese to someone or trade it in back to the store. It’s not a depreciating asset like a vehicle. It’s meant to be consumed and then you purchase more, maybe when it’s on sale. The Tesla is meant to be used and eventually sold or traded for a new one at a market value…which has now gone down substantially. Also, you may purchase 24 boxes of Mac & Cheese over a year, and therefore benefit from price averaging. It’s clearly very different than purchasing a $60k depreciating asset.

To those of you comparing your Tesla purchase to a TV or a computer or a mobile phone, at the very least you recognize the difference in magnitude, right? To most people who purchase a Model 3, a $2,000 television is not a huge multi-year commitment involving a bank and monthly payments on an asset you may be upside-down on for years. Other than the magnitude, you also don’t usually have the relationship with the manufacturers of these consumer products that we have with Tesla as early adopters. Tesla is a new company struggling to make it and needing early adopters to ensure its survival. Perhaps some assumed too much, but the feeling was that early adopters with Tesla take risks by putting money towards a product that they haven’t even seen, thereby helping Tesla survive and fulfill its mission, and Musk and company treat them at least as good as those who didn’t help out in that way. I know, for me, I still love Tesla, I still want to see them succeed. I’d still purchase another Tesla. However, I wouldn’t be an early adopter at this point, and I know many others feel the same. If you really are so concerned with Tesla’s mission that you have zero disappointment about your vehicle being devalued, you should at least be disappointed that they may have lost a large percentage of early adopters in the future. Some of you have said this is a learning opportunity. However, what some existing and potential early adopters may have learned is that we are a cautionary tale, and that may eventually hurt Tesla unfortunately.

It’s amusing to me that so many of you are upset that some of us are a little disappointed, as if there is no reason to be disappointed in any way. It doesn’t mean that we’re entirely unhappy or that we don’t like our cars or that most of us think we’re entitled to a check for the difference in the vehicle price. It also doesn't make us whiners or entitled. It’s simply disappointment that one of our most valued possessions is worth substantially less now, which seems like a pretty normal emotion for that scenario. It doesn’t make us like the car any less. It just affects our bottom line eventually and that’s disappointing. Tesla doesn’t owe me or anyone else anything. As has been pointed out ad nauseum, we agreed to pay what we paid. However, that doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be a smart idea for Tesla to find a way to take extra special care of their biggest evangelists, their early adopters, and to mitigate the idea of this being a cautionary tale against early adoption of future Tesla vehicles.

TL;DR? Feel free to not take the time to comment either.

Maxxer | 4 maart 2019

Amen

a post full of wisdom.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

honestly what you have you ever bought that was "cuttind edge technology" that did not get much cheaper as time went on?

I remember my mom buying a microwave in the 80's for like $500. That same microwave a few years later was $100.

Or even non-tech examples:

I bought a new house in 2007 for 330k. The market crashed and 2 years later they were selling the same house for $200k. I was out $130,000. This is the world we live in. The fact people think they are owed something is mind boggling.

christian | 4 maart 2019

I'm not going to answer comments from people who give the same arguments I already replied to in my post.

aurali | 4 maart 2019

I'm upset that you are upset people are upset other people are upset. I think I need a thread for this.

christian | 4 maart 2019

That's fair. :)

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

simple fact: you wanted to buy something and were presented a contract which you thought was fair. You agreed to pay that price as offered. Now you are whining about that fact. Sounds like the issue is with you....

richardls | 4 maart 2019

@christian , thank you for your thoughts. I couldn't agree more and hope Telsa does more than they are doing.

rgmodel3 | 4 maart 2019

I am in the same boat and very disappointed as well (June 2018, WA state as well), particularly the additional $2k for FSD while some one with no EAP before only pays flat $5k for FSD. But unfortunately, this thread will also die a quick death with all the Tesla fan boys pouring comments with all the examples you already addressed. Sad, but true!

terminator9 | 4 maart 2019

> I remember my mom buying a microwave in the 80's for like $500. That same microwave a few years later was $100.
It has already been stated that the comparison is not valid.

>I bought a new house in 2007 for 330k. The market crashed and 2 years later they were selling the same house for $200k. I was out $130,000. This is the world we live in. The fact people think they are owed something is mind boggling.
That's expected with a market crash. Yes, people were upset about that too as they are now. How much is the house worth now? - I bet it's higher. This car won't go up in cost. Thats the world that we live in.

bearsfan | 4 maart 2019

"As much as I like Tesla and Tesla’s mission statement, I didn’t join a cult. I purchased a vehicle."
+1

Losing $2900.00 after 9 days...My compensation for a price reduction 9 days after I bought the car? FSD for 2k. Yeah, let me throw even more money at this, for a feature not yet available and might be years before it is.

Being that my car is brand new, many people have asked about it, you know what my longer lasting impression is of the car? Yeah, I got screwed by Tesla. I wouldn't buy one if I were you.

Thanks for the post.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 maart 2019

WTF, another thread about the difference between children and adults?

Learn from your disappointment. When you grow up the pitches come harder and faster, learn how to keep up.

terminator9 | 4 maart 2019

I bought stocks yesterday for 10k. They are down today 2k. Am I upset? No, because that is expected.

Me and and buddy travel to Europe. While in Paris we each got $2 bottle of water from the street vendor. I drank it and I was fine because of immunity or whatever. He drank it and his stomach was upset. You can respond to this in the following two ways and it tells a lot about your character -
Option 1: Hey, look, I drank the same water, I didn't get sick. You shouldn't feel upset or cheated because I lost $2k in stocks yesterday and I am not upset or feeling cheated about it. Don't whine about it. Life happens, deal with it.
Option 2: I understand you are upset and feel cheated for the $2 you spent. Let's get some medicine and see if that helps.

j.nichol | 4 maart 2019

Maybe Tesla can offer this as a consolation prize for those who bought their cars before the latest price drop:

https://www.amazon.com/Cry-Babies-Lea-Baby-Doll/dp/B01H5QPIG2

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

People who bought a Tesla thinking it was an investment bought the car for the wrong reason and will continue to be disappointed. If that is you, I would sell and get out now.

terminator9 | 4 maart 2019

investment does not equal getting expected residual value out.

I was thinking for selling M3 to get Model Y. All of a sudden I would get $7 less for M3 which I have to pay more for Model Y. Normal car depreciation was expected.

jpyang | 4 maart 2019

Well said.
The cultism sickens me a lot more than my vehicle devaluation. These dudes are doing disservice to Tesla.
I'd be happy to see Model Y sell as well as Model X. But I will wait until at least one major markdown before chiming in myself.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 maart 2019

Homework, homework, homework.

TESLA has been around for a few years now and has a history. If you were setting expectations comparing to other car companies you failed to do your homework. That being said many car companies have sold models that they dropped only to leave owners stranded for support later and stuck with cars that no one wants.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

cultism? I have hd a tesla for 6 weeks and lost as much as anyone... I am just leaving in reality.

I guess you would rather a company that is LOSING MONEY, appeases a small percentage of people who think they are owed something and issue refunds to everyone, thus completely jeapordizing their future and ours to ever get ongoing updates and enhancements to the vehicles?

That would make you happier?

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Joshan, not sure if you read the post or not. If you did, you didn't comprehend it.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

its a wall off jibberish...

rkalbiarEV | 4 maart 2019

Here, Here.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

I can sum up your entire 5,000 word post in 6 words "WAAAAAAAH the world revolved around me". I hope we can get back to this forum being a place for useful info sharing and discussions and not 50 posts saying the same thing and each person thinking their post is better.

This forum needs a moderator!

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

I can sum up your entire 5,000 word post in 6 words "WAAAAAAAH the world revolved around me". I hope we can get back to this forum being a place for useful info sharing and discussions and not 50 posts saying the same thing and each person thinking their post is better.

This forum needs a moderator!

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Magic 8 Ball, in every comment you leave, you seem completely unwilling to admit that some disappointment is not completely unwarranted in this situation. It's almost cultic. As a matter of fact, your undying loyalty to defending Tesla at every point and disparaging anyone who has disagreed with you has caused me to start ignoring most of your comments because they're so predictable. Adults recognize that things are nuanced and are capable of experiencing more than one emotion at a time. Children act the way you do.

derotam | 4 maart 2019

Cars depreciate in value...How much they depreciate depends on a lot of things. You can't buy a car and know exactly how it is going to depreciate. Normal depreciation, what is that?

christian | 4 maart 2019

A moderator would be nice. Maybe they could help delete duplicate comments from people who don't know how to use a computer.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

or people who start a new thread saying THE SAME THING instead of replying to the exisitng 50 already going so noone can discuss anything actually useful to tesla owners.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@derotam, statistics helps us understand deprecation with enough data points. It's not impossible to know the range. Nevertheless, whatever that number is, it's now $9,000 less for my approximate configuration.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Joshan, I actually said a number of new things. Like I said, I don't think you comprehended it if you even read it.

weluvm3 | 4 maart 2019

@christian +100

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

you added some new points to an EXISTING TOPIC BEING ACTIVELY DISCUSSED, thats actually what forums are for and why there is a "reply" option. Not making a new thread for every new thought. It is basic Forum ettiquete...

weluvm3 | 4 maart 2019

https://electrek.co/2019/03/04/teslas-autopilot-bait-and-switch/

"... The difference is, usually early adopters have the benefit of using the product before everyone else does. But now, for owners who purchased Full Self-Driving before delivery, but still have never used the system at all (because it hasn’t been enabled), they are being left out of a price drop of a product they haven’t even used, simply because they took Tesla at their word that they would benefit from ordering it earlier rather than later.

So this is not equivalent to a price drop on a product that is already in the marketplace – like recently happened with the S/X/3. It’s more similar to if Tesla had told Model 3 reservation holders, who put money down on the first day, that they would need to pay more for the car than those who did not reserve it. Clearly people would be rightfully aggrieved by this concept. ..."

nicholb | 4 maart 2019

Prices change, nothing much you can do about that and don't feel owed anything on the car price reduction.

FSD on the other hand does bother me. Buying it was effectively a a pre-order since it does not exist yet. At the time we were promised that it would cost more if we waited and did not pre-order it at the cart purchase. Now they are taking pre-orders for $1000 less.

If it was something already delivered and I was using, then I would not feel out. If they had not stated that it would cost more after purchase, I also would not feel as bad. But they are effectively reducing a pre-order price despite what was told those who ordered it earlier.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

Great point @weluvm3, except the OP did not purchase FSD, at least per his post. I also appreciate you adding that to an existing post. The OP would have made a new thread to say that. Thats my issue!

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Joshan, I didn't feel like leaving comments in a bunch of different posts. Feel free to not leave comments in this post. That's also how forums work.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 maart 2019

@christian The troops are being mustered. Crybabies on one side and adults on the other. Do you have your pacifier ready?

christian | 4 maart 2019

@nicholb, I'm not saying anyone is technically owed anything. I'm saying disappointment that the value of a person's possession has decreased significantly over night is a normal response. Acting as if it's not is cultic. And Tesla would be wise to take good care of their early adopters.

derotam | 4 maart 2019

@christian, and statistics are great but its still based on variables. And the way the manufacturer deals with pricing is one of the variables. I am not saying that I agree with what Tesla is doing but it is what it is. Now how it all works out in the end for both the consumer and the company is up in the air and we will just see what happens.

Tesla is going through a lot of growing pains and this is just one more that they have to figure out. I bought my car when I bought my car and I never planned on selling it right away. What the depreciation now is doesn't necessarily have much of a bearing on what the depreciation is in 5 years, 10 years. Yes for the short term it hurts a lot but how it ends up over time....who knows.

eandmjep | 4 maart 2019

I trusted (and perhaps my trust was misplaced, but it wasn’t completely unjustified) that if my car was $61,500 in 2018, it would be $61,500 or close to that in 2019.

Wow. Is your issue that you paid more or that future buyers will pay less?

I feel for you, the wound runs deep. Let me help. May 2018 LR RWD 18" red w EAP. $55,000 B4 TAXES and incentives. Cheaper now. Full tax credit compared to 1/2. I was satisfied and agreed to the price. Paid for it. I have watched the prices change both up and down and not once did the thought occur to me to feel cheated, annoyed about the decreases in price. I was elated that TESLA is in a position to make the car more affordable, compensate for the dwindling tax credit and allow more customers the chance to own a great car.

All of the whiners? To me is just evidence of how the customer is allways right mentality helped to stimulate a world of entitled individuals. Entitled to free stuff, or refunds, or credits or what someone else has or earned.

The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

nah, I will ridicule you instead for being a whiner and ruining this forum. Thats also how the internet works. At least @weluvm3 had a valid point, unlike yours.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Magic 8 Ball, your capacity for sympathy and/or empathy explain why you're able to spend all day on these forums.

calvin940 | 4 maart 2019

I can understand people can be disappointed at the circumstance. I (nor anyone else) can tell people about what they should or shouldn't have disappointment.

What people are taking issue with is the invalid blaming of the company for their disappointment.

The valid target is circumstance, not company. Its the way it works, has worked, will continue to work.

Do your homework/research. You should understand what you are doing and your expectations will be inline with reality.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@eandmjep, I'm too am happy that Tesla is in a position to make the car more affordable for people. I expressed that multiple times in my post. I'm also disappointed that it may affect me financially in a negative way. I'm actually capable of multiple thoughts, feelings, and emotions.

christian | 4 maart 2019

I'm actually not whining. I'm criticizing those who seem to say that there is no reason for disappointment here. I'm also saying that Tesla would be wise to take care of their early adopters.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 maart 2019

@chritsian It is my compassion for truth and the success of TESLA that I spend all day walking the hallways of this forum looking to pick up poison left out by others. The poison you spew is sickening. Your thread is in my bucket of:

"I love TESLA but..........." threads. Another crybaby thread where someone wants to spit in TESLA's eye and justify doing so.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

so why again did you feel the need to make a new thread about the same topic there are 50 other threads going for? I am not sure someone who took delivery in 2018 (as I did also) is an early adopter...

Stop cluttering the forums with the same stale posts and let us discuss things that actually benefit tesla owners.

jim | 4 maart 2019

Everyone who is upset and has a sore rear end should start their own personal thread with a giant wall of text explaining exactly why they are upset in great detail and what Elon needs to do to make it right. It will totally make these forums more useful and a better place for all.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Joshan, I think it's pretty clear that "early adopter" in a forum about the Model 3 is in reference to Model 3s.

Joshan | 4 maart 2019

Just keep spining things to make yourself feel important and entitled.

christian | 4 maart 2019

@Magic 8 Ball, the poison I spew? You even talk like the leader of a cult. You could be a pastor in the cultic church I grew up in.

How in the world have I "spit in Tesla's eye"? LOL

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