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Range Decrease A Second Time This Month

Range Decrease A Second Time This Month

So when I got V10 my LR RWD model 3 went to 300 miles on a full charge from the 310 I was consistently getting. So I went from charging at 80% at 248 miles to 240 miles (not a bid deal). Now, since downloading 2019.40.2.1 at 80% I am now only getting 235 miles (roughly based it's only 295 miles on a full charge). I know there will be many people who comment that it doesn't matter and just use percentage figures and not range in miles. Or, some will say battery degradation issues (my car just broke 19K miles...picked up in August 2018). It's not battery issues. It's them changing up something with each and every update recently that is doing this. Maybe that is how they give a little more power to the car by decreasing the range at full charge. What I don't understand is that the new Model 3 cars in Long Range Dual Motor (as RWD Long range no longer on the website) state a full range of 322 miles. How is that possible but yet they restrict our cars we have been updating and driving for a year now? Anyone else care to post if this has happened to them since going with the latest update? Just curious as I'm thinking that the next update if only bug fixes I probably should just not download.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

Do you think any other changes may be involved like the cold of winter?

teslamazing | 14 december 2019

Call the FBI

WantMY | 14 december 2019

@Magic It certainly looks like Tesla is starting to adjust estimates based on the outside temperature. As a consequence, the estimates would start to drop and continue as winter sets in. It is right step in the right direction, otherwise the uneducated EV owners would make a lot of stink about it as there is no way to hide range drop due to low temperature.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

@WantMY It is actually a physical consequence of cold that range goes down using a BEV. This has never been a secret and there is no reason to have to mess with the numbers to calm the uninformed.

The fun is just about to begin: when the BEV's from "competitors" , that are already failing in rated range, are driven in the cold by their owners for the first time. The compliance car agenda will be seen in its full glory. Those brand legacy customers coming from a brand ICE, to something that be sure to disappoint, will be turned off of BEV's for a long time (being sour takes a long time to go away for most, it seems).

WantMY | 14 december 2019

@fish Ah, so battery degradation does not affect Estimated Range? Good for you! I explicitly mention "estimates", as per rated range - it is constant published by EPA, nobody cares about, and most of the time not reflective of real life driving condition.

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

"Ah, so battery degradation does not affect Estimated Range?"

The issue was where is temp calculated in range and Rated Range should only calculate based on battery degradation while the ambient temp would only be used in Estimated Range.

No one knows what Tesla actually does on either number but that's what they should represent.

WantMY | 14 december 2019

@Magic I think a bit different about competition. It may be the fact they reporting the annual average range vs. the "best range" used by Tesla. Otherwise, it is hard to explain with current state of art how EV with 90kWh battery only delivers 200-250 miles of rated EPA range. Not all EV falling behind EPA ratings. Like I mentioned on numerous occasions, my EV always over delivers 10% in the winter and 20% in the summer. Which indicates they rated it for even colder winters. I am reaping good slack of extra range thanks to mild winters in NE.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

Comparing a mystery ship to anything has no value to me.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

Yesterday Fish had 15k miles. Today it's 14k lol

jimglas | 14 december 2019

sounds like a class action lemon law suit to me

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

Tomorrow it's one more year till warranty expires. Haha

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 14 december 2019

WW_spb | December 14, 2019
Yesterday Fish had 15k miles. Today it's 14k lol

“ No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.” -Abraham Lincoln

jimglas | 14 december 2019

it gets hard keeping your lies straight

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

I don't think he lies. Just missing marbles in upper level. Kind of feel sorry for him at this point. Such a try hard hater of Tesla.

Bighorn | 14 december 2019

Way to queue up a CF, OP.

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

And an "overnight" change to Wh/mi on the Energy Graph after the update. Typically it has show as in the 300's on the Energy Graph. Park car at 334 Wh/mi and in the AM it's 236 Wh/mi

https://imgur.com/FvRctbd

A 6 mile round trip to market and Rated Range goes UP from 300 to 302.

Looks like Tesla made a lot of Secret Santa changes to range calculations with "V12?" update, 2019.40.x.x

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

Explain please why do you need Homelink if you don't have garage at your house?

PECo CT | 14 december 2019

After 13 months and almost 8,000 miles, when my LR DM charges up to 80 percent, it displays a range of 246 miles.

My car is parked in a garage that usually stays above 45 degrees all winter (it has two big south-facing windows) and is kept plugged-in with charging scheduled for a 7:00 am departure time with cabin preconditioning only on weekdays.

I’m not concerned about range at all. However, the distance of my drives is not very long, obviously.

stingray.don | 14 december 2019

The update may have tweaked the algorithm used to calculate the rated range estimate, but this in no way affects battery capacity or actual range. The range estimate is affected by many factors including temperature.

PECo CT | 14 december 2019

Oh, and I’m on 40.2.1, now.

Bighorn | 14 december 2019

What part of “It doesn’t matter” do people fail to grasp?

Pg3ibew | 14 december 2019

Is there any reason the original poster would make such a long winded post and not come back and enter the discussion?
Asking for a friend.

Just return the csr and demand a new one. Elon must certainly oblige your demands.

Pg3ibew | 14 december 2019

@bighorn, please please. Stop with common sense.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

Fish's favorite line. "No one knows what Tesla actually does"
Just like he claimed before No one knows what is M3 battery size but Tesla and they ain't telling us.
Dude, give up. Everyone who has been longer than a day on the forum see Tru your bs lies. Go play with your grandchildren or something, fish if you must just leave us in without your nonsense day after day. Thank you.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 december 2019

Leave us in peace*

jallred | 14 december 2019

Tesla has no obligation to tell us how they calculate anything.
And if they did tell, most people wouldn't understand.

For any given estimate of range, there is an infinite number of scenarios where the estimate will be wrong.

Is there any reference to be found that the range number on the main status panel is based solely on the energy stored in the battery multiplied by an EPA stated range?

jimglas | 14 december 2019

Fish is ALWAYS wrong

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 14 december 2019

@fish
“ Rated Range = Rated range, the EPA rated range. The only thing affecting that is battery degradation not driving conditions.”

And there is no variability in how degradation is calculated, right?

/sarcasm

Joshan | 14 december 2019

You are better off asking a 3 year old for advice than listening to the resident aquatic troll and his misinformation campaign.

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

"And there is no variability in how degradation is calculated, right?"

Degradation should be a measurement not a calculated estimate. You are looking for hard number of energy output not an estimating formula for a baseline.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

"Degradation should be a measurement..."

Did you invent a way to do the measurement? Please tell us how it is measured.

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

"Did you invent a way to do the measurement?"

Measuring Li-ion battery degradation is explained here.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_t...

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

No there is no method explained.

Do you read the stuff or are you trying to bait others into carrying on months worth of disruption over things you know nothing about?

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 14 december 2019

“ Degradation should be a measurement not a calculated estimate. ”

It’s a series of calculations based on measurements. Understanding a battery’s capacity is non-trivial.

jallred | 14 december 2019

Even in the manual they never state that the number you see is “rated range”.

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

"Even in the manual they never state that the number you see is “rated range”."

Eyup...Tesla keeps owners i the dark.

In this case, two updates and driver sees Rated Range chage each time even though nothing has changed physically with the car.

No reason for Tesla to be so secretive with info that owners would find useful.

jallred | 14 december 2019

It wouldn’t be useful. And there is lots of reasons not to tell you the formula.

The number is a range estimate. It changes.

So at this point your complaint is that they won’t tell you how they calculate the number. We all agree that they aren’t going to tell you. Let’s move on.

Bighorn | 14 december 2019

@jallred
That’s why he’s moving on to Kona, er E-Tron, um Mach-E or whatever is in the news as the latest “Tesla killer.” Not sure what happened to the Volt/Bolt worship or why Subaru Eyesight remains an obsession despite all the accidents.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

"Eyup...Tesla keeps owners i the dark."

Everyone else knew how horrible and evil Tesla is before they bought, did you not do any research?

FISHEV | 14 december 2019

"The number is a range estimate. It changes."

Rated Range should change only due to battery degradation. RATED RANGE. What is the car rated for, not what an individual driver is getting based on many different variables, that's the ESTIMATED RANGE.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

"Rated Range should change only due to battery degradation. RATED RANGE. What is the car rated for, not what an individual driver is getting based on many different variables, that's the ESTIMATED RANGE."

I was a bit tripped up on this as well. The terminology is not consistent across the industry and you nor I determine what Tesla choses to call "rated range" . If you can come to terms with that you will much further along in your understanding. Peace out!

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 14 december 2019

@M8B: "you nor I determine what Tesla choses to call "rated range""

Rated Range is right here: https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery

Anything the car reports is an estimate based on myriad factors.

jallred | 14 december 2019

Tesla doesn’t sow you rated range.

jallred | 14 december 2019

Sow = show

jallred | 14 december 2019

Look at pages 58 and 59 in the manual.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

No doubt everything reported by onboard metrics is an estimate.

Perhaps I am still confused a bit with terminology but here is how I was thinking of it:

Tesla rated range = estimated miles you can go reported on battery display
EPA rated range = A fixed number that a brand new vehicle should get, or better, when driven at EPA test conditions.
Projected range = estimated miles you can go based current driving metrics.

jallred | 14 december 2019

M8b, I’m with you. I’m just saying that Tesla doesn’t call it ‘rated range”. At least not that I’ve seen. Doesn’t matter if you capitalize it, or think that they should give you that number. They call the number in question, estimated range. And they can calculate any way they want and change it whenever they want, without disclosing it or asking permission from anybody.

Odd thing is that nobody is doing comparison between this number and the actual distance traveled. Instead the complaints are that the estimated range changes. And everyone complaining acknowledges that the real range changes because it is winter.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

@jallred No worries, it is clear to most that it is an estimate and that it is not a measurement of battery degradation.

The golden rule has always been YMMV so I really don't understand why anyone gets hung up on this in the first place. To me it seems most posts on this subject want to imply there is shady business going on when the real issue is education.

jallred | 14 december 2019

I just get frustrated when somebody (not you) claims an assumption as fact and then uses that to make a disparagement.

Magic 8 Ball | 14 december 2019

You are not alone.

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