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No HUD, No Problem

No HUD, No Problem

Dear fellow Model 3 enthusiasts,

I have been looking forward to owning a Tesla since they first made the Roadster. I too loved the idea of a HUD in the Model 3 and with all the evidence and at least two people who have experience with HUD technology being hired thought there was a good chance it would wind up in the car. At the same time I did toy with the idea around all the hype of "what if there is no HUD? how will people react?" Now I suppose we all know from the horse's mouth that there is only one screen, likely no HUD, as Elon tweeted, "The more autonomous a car is, the less dash info you need. How often do you look at the instrument panel when being driven in a taxi?" So to the point of this post. I realize this might not be the ideal solution to the issue if there is in fact no HUD but I think that maybe people who really wanted one might consider it. There are plenty of second party HUDs on the market that offer a ton of features. Here is a decent article on a few that are around right now: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/best-head-up-displays/. I am still doing some research just in case. Let me know what you think.

Sparky | 26 maart 2017

I tend to agree. With an electric drivetrain directly connected at all times with no ICE red line, oil pressure, oil temp, all you need is speed info anyway.

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

Some of these offer some nice convenience features like Apple Car Play or Android device connection, hand gestures, the use of WAZE which I keep hearing a bunch of Tesla owners requesting, and use of the device even when internet connectivity isn't available. I think my main concern would be wires, I would really like to avoid wires all over my dashboard.

KP in NPT | 26 maart 2017

I don't think it's at all Tesla's style to create an interior/UI that would require the need for a 3rd party device.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

I think there will be a HUD or something similar. E.M.'s responses were I think purposefully evasive. First responding that autonomous cars don't need dash info then later responding that there is only one screen. Neither response directly answered the question of whether there will be a HUD and I think that's on purpose.

E.M. knows better that the "autonomous" answer is nonsense because a) it will probably be at least 2 or 3 years before autonomous driving is allowed anywhere and b) the autonomous driving upgrade is currently an $8,000 add-on ($10,000 if you add after sale). So of course Tesla knows there will need to be a good way to see driving info because no one will be driving autonomously for a few years and even when we can most people won't because of the price. E.M. absolutely knows this and therefore knows his answer is not an answer. That's on purpose.

Further, A HUD would help make good on E.M.'s "spaceship-like" comment along with some modification of the steering wheel. Naturally, we'll see it available on the Model S / X first before production Model 3s.

My guess: A full-windshield HUD where the car's projected path (based on steering wheel position) is overlayed on the windshield. You heard it here first!

Carl

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

This:

https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=ECwsiwTs9OI

dsvick | 26 maart 2017

@carl - I'm not sure how you can think his answers were, in any way, evasive.

Q: so does this mean no heads up display in Model 3? How will Tesla handle speedometer and Instrument Cluster information?
Elon: The more autonomous a car is, the less dash info you need. How often do you look at the instrument panel when being driven in a taxi?
Q: but you can't build a car with that mindset today considering autonomous software release is dependent on regulatory approval?
Elon: It still has one display

Short of saying, specifically, "No HUD" it isn't much plainer. I think a large part of the reason for all of the tweets Friday was to dispel some of the rumors flying around about what would be included in the Model 3.

carlk | 26 maart 2017

The answer is very clear to me. We will be needing less and less dash info and that's the direction Tesla is going,

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

My point is merely this: If a HUD is a make or break option for you there are alternatives to get what you want and still have an amazing Tesla Model 3. Don't let the potential lack of a single feature ruin your excitement for the car.

FactDoc | 26 maart 2017

The only thing that will save your life any unexpected danger happens right in front of your face on the road won't be info on a HUD. It will be autopilot sensors, your eyes and the thing you see through the windshield

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@EVolution I was not suggesting that a HUD will save your life. I'm not sure where you got this from. I'm saying if for some people it is a MUST HAVE piece of tech to be present in the car to buy it then there are alternatives if Tesla decides not to include it in the final version, which has not been announced yet. A HUD isn't a must have piece of tech for me but I see the benefit. When I ski my body tends to turn where I look i.e. if I look down and to the right. My tendency if i'm not focused is for my hands to turn to the right. If I'm not using autopilot this might be a problem. Also I don't intend on using autopilot all the time, I do in fact enjoy the experience of driving my car.

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@Carl Thompson very cool video. I am really hoping Tesla does implement this. I can see if they go for a HUD in the Model 3 it will be announced for the S and X as standard. I wonder if they will do away with the second screen in the S and X if they decide to implement a HUD in those models.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

@dsvick , @carlk

I guess I disagree with you. To me E.M.'s responses seemed to obviously and purposefully not answer the question. Particularly the autonomous driving answer is nonsensical for the reasons outlined above. And E.M. is too intelligent to give a nonsense answer to a basic question without reason. I guess we'll see who's right!

Carl

dsvick | 26 maart 2017

@Carl - you're right, he didn't actually say "no HUD", but what would be the purpose in being deliberately misleading? What gain could Tesla possibly get out of it?

EaglesPDX | 26 maart 2017

OK with no HUD but I'd still want some basic in my line of sight (speed, turn signals, basic nav) vs on a large busy screen that requires taking one's eyes off the road.

KP in NPT | 26 maart 2017

@dsvick - IMO, because it (or something like it) is coming to the Model S/X first, and they haven't announced it yet.

accentcreate | 26 maart 2017

@dsvick
Bit worried that the premise is based around autonomous driving. Personally that would be the last of my options as I enjoy driving and usually drive in very remote rural areas with little road marking, blind corners on mountain roads etc so the usefulness would be limited.
For the same reasons a screen to the side would be pretty useless while actually driving as I need to keep my eyes on the road and my hands on the wheel. I certainly won't be trying to find the controls on a touch screen.
A HUD doesn't need to be over-complicated, simply a speedo and remaining range would suffice. Since many modern cars already have HUDs, why shouldn't a Tesla? I'm sure it doesn't require a separate computer if it is kept simple, just a light display on the windscreen, sourcing info from the main computer.

dsvick | 26 maart 2017

@KP - That's possible, and I've always thought that, if there were going to be a HUD on the model 3, that we'd see it on the S or X first. If it were in the works though I'd have expect them not to address it all rather than imply there won't be one. Hopefully we'll know if a few months for sure though!!

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

@dsvick

What KP said primarily and also because they want as many Model 3 reservationists to jump on the Model S as possible. Finally they want to save some of the hype and positive press for closer to the car's launch to make sure there's a lot of buzz going at that time. If they tell us everything now there won't be as much excitement then.

Carl

dsvick | 26 maart 2017

@accentcreate - "For the same reasons a screen to the side would be pretty useless while actually driving as I need to keep my eyes on the road and my hands on the wheel."

How you check your speed and the other instruments now without taking your eyes off the road? Checking the screen slightly to the right vs checking a normally placed instrument cluster is a very minor difference.

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@accentcreate
I agree completely. While I am both intrigued and impressed with the autonomous functions of a Tesla they are not the main draw of the car in my eyes. I like that they are electric first and foremost, I like the power and instant torque available, I like the look (someone compared it to a ipad with a car built around it.) The main options I'm likely to choose are a larger battery for more range and power, AWD, and possibly ludicrous mode. Far down on my list are the automatic driving features. I might even wait a few years and buy them as an over the air download. I love driving and during a test drive I had in a Model S I fell for the crazy acceleration.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

dsvick:
"I've always thought that, if there were going to be a HUD on the model 3, that we'd see it on the S or X first."

I think we _will_ see it on the Model S / X first. Maybe they announce in June or early July that all Teslas built after July X, 2017 will come with a HUD (or whatever).

Carl

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@dsvick
True it is a minor change to move your eyes down and to the right, but if you are focused on other things there is also a natural tendency to turn your hands where your gaze is going. True it won't always happen but it only takes doing this a few times at the wrong moment when autopilot is not assisting.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

I mean a HUD in the Model S / X is _long_ overdue. Other competing cars have them and Tesla prides itself for being high-tech. It's definitely coming.

Carl

EaglesPDX | 26 maart 2017

"How you check your speed and the other instruments now without taking your eyes off the road? Checking the screen slightly to the right vs checking a normally placed instrument cluster is a very minor difference."

It's a MAJOR difference as instrumentation on speed, signals etc. are in line of sight and very distinct vs. looking down and to the right to busy computer screen

topher | 26 maart 2017

"but if you are focused on other things there is also a natural tendency to turn your hands where your gaze is going."

Never noticed this with the center(ish) screen in the Prius.

Imagining driving a 3, the top right of a screen would be less of a problem than a behind the wheel display. No where near as good as the under the windscreen display on the Prius, sadly.

I drove a (rented) Kia this evening, I couldn't read ANY of the three dials in the binnacle. I would have rejoiced for a Model 3 center screen.

Thank you kindly.

tstolz | 26 maart 2017

The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with Elon that HUD isn't needed. That said, if he wanted to make some money off me I'd probably buy it anyway.

Red Sage ca us | 26 maart 2017

Heh. This conversation reminds me of an issue I had with the 'HALO' franchise on Xbox. You could only adjust your 'look speed' laterally, it stayed fixed, slow as mud, for vertical viewpoint changes. I don't have that problem in the real world... Perhaps others do?

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

EaglesPDX:
"t's a MAJOR difference as instrumentation on speed, signals etc. are in line of sight and very distinct vs. looking down and to the right to busy computer screen"

A normal speedometer is _not_ in your line of sight. Either way you have to move your eyes. I think there will be a HUD or something similar but even if there's not it wouldn't be more of a problem than looking down behind the steering wheel.

Carl

NKYTA | 26 maart 2017

I just asked my wife (who will be our Model 3 owner):

On your short five mile commute on back roads to get to the office, how many times do you look at the speedo in your Mustang?
A: Zero

On your trips around the Bay Area in your Mustang that include freeway driving, how many times do you look at the speedo?
A: Rarely. I'm following the general pace of the traffic.

When you are driving NKYTA on a road trip, on freeways with cruise control on, how often do you look at the speedo?
A: Rarely.

@tstolz, I agree. EM could make some money off me for the cool new gadget, but IRL is this really something to have so much angst over?

NKYTA | 26 maart 2017

So, I disagree with @Carl Thompson

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@NKYTA
The original point of this post was not meant in angst.

The original point was TLDR:
If you must have a HUD for this to be your next vehicle there are other options out there to get what you want and still own an awesome Tesla.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

@NKYTA

What do you disagree with me about?

NKYTA | 26 maart 2017

@zephyr12, sorry I should have specified that the angst wasn't coming from your post, rather the comments.

So, since I can't fully answer for my wife, I'll still go with "no" she does not need HUD as a must have.

I probably conflated the "angst" from the several OPs discussing this. I haven't been on the M3 forum much recently...apologies.

Red Sage ca us | 26 maart 2017

zephyr12: Thanks for the clarification of purpose intended.

NKYTA | 26 maart 2017

@Carl

"I think there will be a HUD or something similar"

^ that. But we cross posted and I didn't fully get your but in that sentence.

zephyr12 | 26 maart 2017

@NKYTA

NP. I'm sure both you and your wife will love your Model 3. I plan on extremely enjoying mine. I can't wait to see what will or will not be included on the final product in June/July. If there is no HUD I might get one in part because I'm addicted to technology. With the information from his Twitter storm the other day I was bummed out more about the lack of AWD but I'd probably have to wait that long to get my Tesla anyway.

I think whatever Elon and his team come out with will be singular in the automotive world.

EaglesPDX | 26 maart 2017

"A normal speedometer is _not_ in your line of sight. Either way you have to move your eyes."

Actually the instrumentation essentials are typically in your vision field while glancing down and to the right is assuredly not. It's why the regs read the way they do. Tesla will no doubt have some digital gauges there (might still have the HUD as they are very cheap) in the line of sight.

nyca | 26 maart 2017

Part of this HUD debate is why perspective buyers are attracted to this car. For some, its because they have strong feelings about the environmental issues - fine. But for many others, a car like this represents "the future". Buyers are attracted to it because they see it as representative of the future of the automobile ad personal transportation. Tesla has to deliver on that aspect of it too, the car has to "look like the future" - and having a HUD, even a basic one, is part of that. Musk shouldn't lose sight of that.

bj | 26 maart 2017

Elon: The more autonomous a car is, the less dash info you need. How often do you look at the instrument panel when being driven in a taxi?

Quite a lot, when the driver appears to be about to fall asleep or is on drugs.

As well as the meter ticking over :)

Ross1 | 26 maart 2017

If you consider M3 as EM described it as being a scaled down MS, not a new iteration, and they are heading for simplicity of build and no beta cars, then the M3 will initially only include what has already been proven, IMO.
Later on, I expect it to be a toybox full of spaceship enterprises, but not initially.
Myself? Happy to wait for a later edition.

EaglesPDX | 26 maart 2017

"If you consider M3 as EM described it as being a scaled down MS"

Musk has made very clear that T3 is not a scaled down TS at all and is very much a different car.

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

Ross:
"...the M3 will initially only include what has already been proven, IMO."

HUDs are proven tech.

"...spaceship enterprises..."

That's _Starship_ Enterprise!

Carl

Carl Thompson | 26 maart 2017

EaglesPDX:
"Musk has made very clear that T3 is not a scaled down TS at all and is very much a different car."

So why did E.M. just say this then:

"Model 3 is just a smaller, more affordable version of Model S..."

Carl

NKYTA | 26 maart 2017

What is a T3?? You mean Model 3, from Tesla? It doesn't yet exist in production.

No one, I mean, no one, knows what a TS is. Please use common terms if you expect to be understood.

@OP, we've been enjoying our S since 12/22/2012. We have some experience. Just waiting until we can be fully BEV in a year or less.

dd.micsol | 27 maart 2017

We know what the car looks like-+1
The interior-bland and lame - In my opinion-not that anyone else cares-
spaceship like controls.... where are they? Come on-he owns space X for goodness sakes.
I'm not impressed at all right now. Again, I'll wait for the June announcement but if it was anything like the last
announcement-I'll be cancelling my 2 orders and getting 2 Ss.

EaglesPDX | 27 maart 2017

"I'll be cancelling my 2 orders and getting 2 Ss."

Tesla will be very happy if that is the action of 20% of the current T3 reservationists. Much higher profit ratio vs. what Musk is calling the "severely negative" profit margin of the first 500,000(?) T3's.

"The Model 3 is designed with – it's really designed for manufacturing. It's considerably a simpler car than the Model S or the Model X. Some of these allocations (8:40) are obvious. For example, the Model 3 only has one screen, whereas the Model S and Model X have two screens, and two separate computers powering each screen. The Model 3 has 1.5 kilometers of wiring. The Model S has three kilometers of wiring, so we simplified the wiring system considerably. A lot of the bells and whistles that are present on a Model S and Model X are not present on a Model 3. "

SamO | 27 maart 2017

Elon Musk - "And then, as we get to the initial phase of capacity of 5,000 a week, I would expect to see gross margins comparable to that of the Model S and Model X."

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/live-blog-q4-and-full-year-2016-we...

You'll need some new material Pigeon baby.

mos6507 | 27 maart 2017

The bottom line to me is that it is hypocritical to rationalize the lack of a secondary display on the basis of keeping the cost down while offering extravagant options like bigger battery packs, ludicrous mode, AWD, etc... Just make it an option already and silence the critics.

SamO | 27 maart 2017

@mos6507.

Elon didn't say there would be not be a HUD. He was given the chance and he declined to make that statement.

But if there is HUD, it will come to S and X first.

And if it comes to S and X first, he doesn't want to Osborne current sales, so he would not admit to HUD.

Q.E.D. He cannot talk about HUD yet and given the chance, REFUSED to state categorically that there would be no HUD.

topher | 27 maart 2017

@SamO

He said 1 display. Is he getting rid of the center display to put in a head up display?

Thank you kindly.

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