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Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 3-Series

Tesla Model 3 vs. BMW 3-Series

Hi

I am driving a BMW E90 320d and considering a Tesla Model 3.

Environment isn't my reason but I look at the total cost of ownership, repairs and just a car which can fulfill my needs of transportation.

I have carefully calculated the direct price pr. Km for electricity vs. diesel in my country. Sadly electricity is insane expensive in Denmark 0,35 USD / KWh.
This makes it almost equal to running diesel. Maybe 20% cheaper for electric, but if I need to charge away from my home the chargers in the city wants 0,7 USD / KWh.

Repair costs on my BMW is relative low because I do most repair my self, but I do expect a lower cost running a Model 3 which is difficult to predict.

I need the trailer hook since we don't run pick up trucks. Still uncertain if Model 3 will have trailer hook.
What I hate about my BMW is the body panels are in steel and rusts quite much after 10 year. Expected lifetime of a car in DK is 20 years. So body panels in aluminum could help.

I'm not a big fan of the limited access in the trunk of the model 3, but I guess I could live with it.
I most certainly would NOT have the panoramic roof. I think replacing the entire roof if a stone hits the windshield must cost a fortune.

The interior looks a bit too simple for European taste (I think). I know Elon does not want to put an instrument cluster with speedometer in the M3. Which is kind of sad. Speeding tickets in my country starts at 220 USD and no upper limit. So displaying speed is actually important to some.

In Denmark a M3 is much cheaper than a BMW 3-series, but is it also usable ? I transport family around in a typical 200 Km/trip range on weekly basis but carries also goods, building materials from the home center etc. My 3-series has foldable seats and motor driven trailer hook, which is fantastic. But is the M3 just to transport people and no goods?

Head Up Display is something I don't care about at all. I think it will only add to the cost of a windshield which already is high.

Missing the technical information about M3 so much. Does it have Run Flat Tire?, Rain Sensor?, etc.

But why should I buy a M3 if costs are much the same as BMW 3-series.

BTW: The autonomous driving is more or less a no go thing for me. If I didn't want to drive, I could just let my wife drive or get a cab. I don't see the point.
I haven't made accidents for 30 years, so that's not my concern.

Should I wait and see 5 years before making any decisions? I like the EV thing but seems like Tesla is not listening to customers needs and has their own ideas about what I need.

SamO | 11 april 2017

@TC998,

Let's break it downs bit:

Hi

1. I look at the total cost of ownership, repairs and just a car which can fulfill my needs of transportation.
(Good idea. TCO is absolutely essential for budgeting long term ownership).
2. electricity is insane expensive in Denmark 0,35 USD / KWh, ~ 20% cheaper for electric, but (public charging in the) city wants 0,7 USD / KWh. (Tesla offers very inexpensive charging through the Supercharging Network in Denmark at 9 locations They also offer ~25 Destination chargers throughout the country that are free to customers at that business). Supercharging in Denmark cost much less than private charging networks.
3. I do most repair my self, but I do expect a lower cost running a Model 3 which is difficult to predict. (I don't think you'll be able to Self repair much).
4. I need the trailer hook since we don't run pick up trucks. Still uncertain if Model 3 will have trailer hook. (Elon Musk confirmed Model 3 would have tow Capability).
5. So body panels in aluminum could help. (Tesla says steel but nothing confirmed yet).
6. I'm not a big fan of the limited access in the trunk of the model 3, but I guess I could live with it.(good. There's no hatchback. If this is a deal breaker, buy a used Model S or wait for Model Y).
7. The interior looks a bit too simple for European taste (I think). (Matter of taste. WYSIWYG)
8. I know Elon does not want to put an instrument cluster with speedometer in the M3. Which is kind of sad. Speeding tickets in my country starts at 220 USD and no upper limit. So displaying speed is actually important to some. (Speed will be displayed on the center stack.)
9. In Denmark a M3 is much cheaper than a BMW 3-series, but is it also usable ?
I transport family around in a typical 200 Km/trip range on weekly basis but carries also goods, building materials from the home center etc. My 3-series has foldable seats and motor driven trailer hook, which is fantastic. But is the M3 just to transport people and no goods? (Model 3 will have much more storage capacity than a BMW 3 series).
10. Head Up Display is something I don't care about at all. I think it will only add to the cost of a windshield which already is high.(No HUD confirmed by Elon Musk).
11. Missing the technical information about M3 so much. Does it have Run Flat Tire?, Rain Sensor?, etc.(no to run flats because of efficiency losses. Yes probably to rain sensors.)
12. But why should I buy a M3 if costs are much the same as BMW 3-series. (Not answerable by me)
13. BTW: The autonomous driving is more or less a no go thing for me. I don't see the point. (Tesla Network)
14. Should I wait and see 5 years before making any decisions? I like the EV thing but seems like Tesla is not listening to customers needs and has their own ideas about what I need. (When Ford started mass producing cars, all his customers wanted were faster horses.)

Madatgascar | 11 april 2017

Above is mostly FUD. There are many reports of Model S well over 130,000 miles with only minor battery degradation, and the normal maintenance is much less than on an ICE. Batteries are getting better, not worse. I've had a Model S for 2-1/2 years and 45,000 miles and it has never been to the shop. There's just much less to maintain.

As to the $10k to $15k initial cost differential, as the OP points out the Model 3 is already much cheaper than a BMW 3 series where he lives. So yes, you can expect less upfront and less lifecycle costs.

Madatgascar | 11 april 2017

My comment was in response to Eagles, not SamO.

KP in NPT | 11 april 2017

@TC, ignore Eagles. He is our pet troll.

SamO | 11 april 2017

Lol. Great cross posting moments in Tesla Forum Hostory. :-). Guess that's why you should never respond to trolls.

minervo.florida | 11 april 2017

Try driving a Model S and you will understand that your BMW is a rotary phone compared to a smart phone.

The batteries on older design were at about 70-80% left after 500,000 miles.

The motor may last 1 million miles, with no saint except coolant. NO tranny, etc.

Drive the S.

minervo.florida | 11 april 2017

That should be no maintenance except coolant.

KP in NPT | 11 april 2017

@TC, and as you consider the source, know our pet troll does not own nor has ever owned a battery electric vehicle.

Also, all other responses so far are from actual Tesla owners.

We have owned our Model S for about 2 years. In that time we have spent money only on rotating tires. (And electricity, of course. About 1/2 has been free supercharging miles.) Our battery has degraded 1 mile.

Our ICE, on the other hand, has had to have it's exhaust system, battery, and trunk latch replaced. We're hoping nothing else breaks on it before we replace it with our Model 3.

KP in NPT | 11 april 2017

Also, do you have a reservation? Even if you do, you will have plenty of time to see the final specs before you order, since the USA will get first deliveries. If you don't, you're likely at least 2 years away if you get in line now.

We don't know how much of the car will be steel and what will be aluminum. But based on previous statements, parts of the car will definitely be steel. It is cheaper than aluminum and part of how they are getting the cost down to 35K USD base.

As for cargo space, we don't know for certain since the final car hasn't been released. But Elon Musk has said the seats will fold down and it will have room for larger items(he has said in tweets that a surfboard or a bike will fit "no problem") and he has also said a tow package will be offered.

As for your other questions - you'll have to wait for the car to be released, like the rest of us. Just a few months away now. And as to Tesla "not listening to customers" - no car is going to satisfy every person's individual requirements. There are trade offs with every car buying decision. Since the model 3 will replace my Lexus IS250, it is essentially the same in many respects (size, trunk, seating capacity) and will be better in many others. (BEV, faster, Autopilot, OTA updates, etc etc) If the Model 3 does not meet your personal requirements, maybe wait for the Model Y crossover, or get a S/X.

Red Sage ca us | 11 april 2017

minervo.florida: Rotary phone versus smartphone? Compared to a Tesla, I consider a BMW to be more like the old hang on the wall call boxes that were on a party line, and had no dial at all. Where you had to talk to Sarah, the telephone operator in Mayberry, to connect a call. ;-)

Civicrick | 11 april 2017

Harsh, man. Harsh.

Captain_Zap | 11 april 2017

If you do most of the repairs yourself, you must know about all the plastics used in the manufacturing of a BMW. Those plastics degrade prematurely due to heat and other factors. Some of those parts are a bear to access. Now we are running into issues with the parts no longer being available. It is too bad because the car would otherwise be in fine shape. Also, the heater core took weeks to replace. The entire dash had to be removed to access it. Having it done professionally would have totaled the car. Most shops simply refused to do it.

swingshiftworker | 11 april 2017

I love driving my BMW 335i but I don't drive it much and it's more of a hobby car (and money pit) for me into which I've dumped a lot of $ to make it the car (for for changes than repairs) that I want it to be but that's still no where near what a Model S (or even what a Model 3) would cost me used or new (respectively).

That said, when it comes time to actually consider buying or leasing an M3, in 3 years when my Bolt lease expires, the decision for me will be based entirely on whether or not I think that driving the M3 is more enjoyable than driving the BMW already is s to me. If it is, I'll sell or trade in the BMW for the M3. If not, I'll just keep the BMW.

By then, my BMW will be 12 years old but there's no reason to dump it if it's not giving me problems and is still fun to drive. While I like high tech, there is something to be said for "old school" and, while I was an early adopter of the Bolt, that doesn't necessarily mean that I will like the "advanced" features of the M3 over the classic ICE characteristics of my BMW.

We'll see . . .

swingshiftworker | 11 april 2017

PS: If I decide to keep my BMW E90 335i 4 door sedan instead of buying/leasing the M3, then the choice for me will be which other EV to buy/lease to replace the Bolt because I don't want to have two 4 door sedans in my collection of cars at the same time. The decision might be different if I had an E92 coupe or E93 convertible but I don't.

in any event, the next EV could be another Bolt or any other "affordable" EV that can get me 200+ miles (maybe even 300+ by then) to serve as my daily driver and gas free car that I can use for local travel, which is how I happily use the Bolt now.

topher | 11 april 2017

"And as to Tesla "not listening to customers"

Elon Musk just listened to a tweet and decided to follow the advice therein.,,,

...on a SpaceX rocket.

Thank you kindly.

tstolz | 11 april 2017

It's funny to hear people wonder if they will enjoy driving the M3 as much as their BMW. We have a 2003 3.0 Z4 and a MS85D. My wife and I argue over who gets the Tesla ... the Z4 in comparison is slow, unresponsive, noisy, smells, and shakes ... can't wait to be rid of it and into an M3. Just our truck to get rid of after that.

Red Sage ca us | 11 april 2017

I sometimes wonder if 'Sarah' was the same telephone operator in Hooterville on 'Green Acres' and 'Petticoat Junction'... that is featured on the 'Andy Griffith Show'. In any case, I doubt many people in those towns drove BMWs.

carlk | 11 april 2017

For those who say I like to drive my BMW you're exactly ones who should get the Model 3. You apparently like to drive but you don't know what you have missed. I owned a Porsche Cayman S but rarely drove it since I got my Model S. Finally got rid of it when I bought my second Tesla, an X.

Red Sage ca us | 11 april 2017

carlk: +42! Thank you. That is precisely the reply I was hoping to see.

MarlonBrown | 11 april 2017

I also own a BMW 320. In the last 15 years I have had Audis and Minis as well. You tell me that you repair it yourself. I am not sure at what level you can do that. I certainly can tell from 15 years of experience that German cars are extremely expensive to maintain. That is my main reason trying to go electric. Once people accelerate and drive sporty with a combustion engine car, the whole thing falls apart at 50K miles. That is so true that the warranty is only 40K miles in the BMW, which I consume in less than 2 years. I understand acceleration should cause no harm in eletric motors. If Tesla maintains the 8 years unlimited warrant, I am golden. If not I may end up buying a Model S for that reason alone (even though the aluminium body could be very expensive in case of crashes).

MarlonBrown | 11 april 2017

EaglesPDX, grow up. "Environment" can be the only reason for you to buy an EV. You don't speak for me.

Madatgascar | 11 april 2017

Actually I bought my P85D based on the value proposition. First costs were about $200,000 less than sports cars with comparable acceleration. Plus I could use it as a station wagon/SUV, but never mind that. Cost of repairs and maintenance so far: $0. Battery degradation after 2.5 years: I haven't noticed, must be tiny. The car only seems to get better. No wonder 98% of buyers are satisfied.

Madatgascar | 11 april 2017

What's amazing is that I'm still on my first set of tires after 45,000 miles, about ready to change finally. (My first Model S burned through tires because of a camber issue they finally resolved.). No oil or other fluids to worry about. Brakes last forever thanks to regenerative braking. The only things you seem to hear about needing maintenance any more are the retracting door handles on Model S and the FWD and power front doors on Model X. Guess what - Model 3 won't have any of those gizmos.

carlk | 11 april 2017

Red Sage I'm not the only one of course. There are plenty of S owners who used to dive a Porsche or BMW. Like I said if you like to drive you will like to drive a Tesla. You can't get even close to the same fun from a Porsche or a BMW, seriously.

Carl Thompson | 11 april 2017

You can't compare a sedan (Model 3) and a roadster (Z4). They're completely different that fill completely niches. I don't own a Tesla but I've driven the Model S and I'm on my 3rd EV. I do own a Z4.

There's no question that the Model 3 will certainly be quicker 0 to 30 than the Z4 and there's a good change it will be quicker 0 to 60 than the Z4 too. But the Z4 will likely have a higher top speed. Both are going to be fun to drive but in different ways.

What's going to give you the most comfortable commute or road trip with the family? A Tesla for sure. But which do you want for that first date with that hot girl and the drive down scenic Highway 1 to Santa Cruz? Hands down you want the Z4. Teslas are really great cars but there's also something to be said for hugging the road in a two-seater with the top down and hearing the growl of the engine. It's somehow a more primal experience vs. the more cerebral experience of driving an EV.

Carl

SamO | 12 april 2017

Please describe each and every time you've driven your Z4 faster than 135mph, the top speed of the Model S.

TC998 | 12 april 2017

Hi
Thanks for all the comments. Very valuable to me.

A few answers I need to give.
The Tesla model 3 is expected to cost 60.000 USD in Denmark without option and a BMW 3 series around 71.000 USD without options. So that's much in Tesla's favor.

I can't have the Model S because it does not support tow capabilities and model X is simply to large in all ways. So model 3 sounds good in that sense. What differs Tesla from BMW is that they will most likely not come with a model 3 station wagon variant.

I still think in Denmark the cost for electricity is much similar to diesel. Even though Super Chargers are free the first 4.000 Km or so it's still not good. All other destination charges are freak.... expensive in Denmark so home charging or free super chargers are the way to go. Anything else would make EV more expensive than diesel.

Yes I also like driving like many BMW owners :-) so fully autonomous driving isn't on my list of options.

I can do most repairs my self. Like changing a gearbox, suspension, brake jobs. Just things like refilling A/C or painting are jobs transferred to my locale pushers.

No I didn't have any problems with plastic parts on my BMW's. I guess it's more a problem in hot climates which Denmark isn't. Here we are severe corrosion problems due to salted roads in winter. Changing body panels and repainting the cars, makes it less valuable. Never had a painter who could match the factory colors. This is VERY annoying when considering how expensive cars is in Denmark (take your price and multiply by 3, that's my price)

I like Tesla's long warranty this is a big plus. Seems also that Tesla really makes no discussion if you have problems within the warranty period. Here many other automakers could learn from Tesla.
But speaking on a brand new car, I think BMW, Merc..... as well as Tesla should not experience any problems the first 4 years / 60.000 miles.

I driven many fancy cars. My favorite is the Porsche 911. That engine sound is just a piece of art.

I'm often driving in Germany with no speed limits on autobahn. I guess here the EV can't beat the BMW's in any way. Top speed and range is much better with diesel.....but that's something I could accept if price on EV was lower or it had some other advantages.

carlk | 12 april 2017

@Carl Thompson Tell you what I do drive over the 17 often and I always take my Model S even when I still own my Cayman S. It's just a better car to drive for that. I also have said on the X forum a friend who got a "lowly" model X 75D a few months ago was ecstatic when he took it to the 17. He said he never knew he could pass any car with such an ease on the mountain. This is a person who has owned MB SL and BMW 650i.

Let me lay it down all for you since you have never owned a Tesla. The instant torque and linear pedal response is not only addictive but also makes it so much easier driving in such demanding condition. The Porsche can certainly go into a sharp and steep corner faster but the Tesla will always get out of it much faster. You don't have to worry about rpm or gear position just punch the pedal and it will go. On straighter slopes it just kills the Porsche, if you don't go 100mph on those roads.

Model S is a bigger and heavier cars of course but the super low COG and perfect weight distribution is something BMW and Porsche designers can only dream of. Even the mid-engined Cayman S is nothing like that. Porsche is always boasting how it could put the flat 6 real low but how can you compare it to putting the battery pack at bottom of the car? Now when you compare the Model 3 and BMW 3 with similar size and weight I don't think the BMW could hold water for what the Model 3 could do in that department.

That's why Elon always says he's making the best car which happens to be an EV. Two things ICE performance cars are always trying to achieve (but never succeeded), low end torque/throttle response and perfect cog/weight distribution are all naturally there in an EV. Plus the third one that you could have all these without the concern of getting unacceptable gas consumption or emissions. That's why the first victim of the Model 3 would be performance ICE cars and also why this really makes BMW trolls like the Eagle desperate.

Red Sage ca us | 12 april 2017

carlk: +42! The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything about, 'Why is BMW [FLOCKED]?'

Remember when automotive magazines like CAR and DRIVER, MOTOR TREND, and ROAD & TRACK used to frown upon pretty much any vehicle that weighed over 3,500 lbs as a matter of course (unless it was German, that is)...? Now that just about any car, from any manufacturer, despite its configuration, tends to weigh over 3,200 lbs on the low end, and well over 4,500 lbs on the high end, most cars are slugs despite much higher horsepower ratings than decades past. Gone are the days when sporty cars weighed between 2,200 and 2,800 lbs. And long gone are the days when any production vehicle weighs as little as 1,700 lbs.

Much of the increase in weight was due to safety concerns, though quite a bit of it was in pursuit of 'luxury'. The penalty in fuel economy, emissions, and driving excellence is often lost in the noise. And the side effect is that one of the biggest arguments against battery electric vehicles 'They weigh too much!' is all but eliminated considering the portly crowd they must contend against.

In my youth, I could run circles around the typical 17-year-old on a basketball court. Now, after aging a bit and a knee injury, I'm about the same speed as a typical 17-year-old. You know what? A typical 17-year-old is SLOW. And the typical ICE vehicle in the entry-level luxury market that has long been dominated by the BMW 3-Series is no longer the limber, lithe, capable, athletic vehicle that they might have been two or three decades ago. Even with more torque and horsepower than ever before, they will be entirely embarrassed against the fully electric Model ☰. Yes. It'll be like Ali vs Holmes. Some will cry. I won't.

Quoted for everlasting truth, "That's why Elon always says he's making the best car which happens to be an EV. Two things ICE performance cars are always trying to achieve (but never succeeded), low end torque/throttle response and perfect cog/weight distribution are all naturally there in an EV. Plus the third one that you could have all these without the concern of getting unacceptable gas consumption or emissions. That's why the first victim of the Model 3 would be performance ICE cars and also why this really makes BMW trolls like the Eagle desperate."

CraigW | 12 april 2017

TC998,
There are aspects of driving an EV that are unique to EVs. I suggest you try to get a test drive in a BMW I3 and compare the differences with your BMW 3 Series. It is in this area that many in this column talk about the EV experience being superior to the BMW 3 Series experience. Even better, you might try a test drive in either a Model S or Model X - they don't mind of you have no intention of buying a new one now.

The usable storage space in the Model 3 will be larger than the BMW, but there will be no hatchback. Because of the flat space in EVs, storage space is more usable.

Even if the running costs are the same, the lack of time spent on maintenance should convince you to go EV.

I have put over 90,000 US miles on and early S60 and S70D and can tell you that I simply will no buy another ICE car - it's that much more enjoyable. Is the Model S/X simply too big for your preferences - I know that was my situation before I got my early S60? After driving for a while, I might prefer to drive a car the size of a Model 3, but I certainly don't have problems with my Model S. Perhaps a used Model S/X should be in your future.

Carl Thompson | 12 april 2017

TC998:
"What differs Tesla from BMW is that they will most likely not come with a model 3 station wagon variant."

The Tesla Model Y which will be here in 2 or 3 years will essentially be a crossover (station wagon like) version of the Model 3.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 12 april 2017

@carlk

I get what you're saying about torque and and linear acceleration etc. I've driven an S and I've owned 3 electric cars. I get it.

I'll put it this way. The Model 3 will be a great car that will make my commute and other driving I don't enjoy easier. That's why I'll certainly pay for enhanced autopilot and when it's out fully autonomous driving.

But for the driving I do enjoy such as driving to the beach in the summer along a winding country road the Model 3 won't be able to beat my Z4. It's actually the 3rd I've owned; I had 2 Z3s previously I enjoy driving them so much. Sure the Tesla will be quicker and it will definitely accelerate more smoothly and with less pollution. Sure my back wouldn't ache after driving for a couple of hours in the Tesla. But if I want to take the time to enjoy the _feel_ of driving the Z4 is perfect and the reason why I didn't even bother with cruise control on my current one. With its manual transmission, small size and responsive handling it really makes you feel like you and the machine are one and it's a great feeling.

Would I commute every day in my Z4? Hell, no. It would be much too tiring. But it still has its place.

Carl

Civicrick | 12 april 2017

Right on, brother. Right on.

Frank99 | 12 april 2017

Carl -
Never owned a Z3, but had a Miata for a number of years. Never drove it with the top up, and totally enjoyed the whole experience - great road feel, perfect handling, excellent shifting, wind in the hair, the scent of whatever I was driving through (good and bad) - although it didn't exactly have a soul-stirring exhaust note. If I had room for one, I'd still have it - and I'd probably keep it after my 3 comes in just to see if it turned into a garage queen or whether it's visceral positives would fade in the light of the 3.
A new Roadster would be perfect for me - but I ain't waiting that long, and I'm probably not willing to pay that much.

carlk | 12 april 2017

I kept my Cayman S for two more years thought I could use it as my weekend car. It ended up on the trickle charger all the time and added only a few hundred miles in two years. Stepping on the pedal of the 300hp 3200lb car is still a torture after getting used to the S. Well torture is a little exaggerating but I just had no desire to drive it anymore. You guys can find it out after you get your 3. That said I would be the first person to buy the Roadster 2 when it's available.

CraigW | 12 april 2017

Carl -
Drive both your BMW and a Tesla S from Prescott, AZ to the Wickenburg, AZ supercharger - then let me know how you feel. Your Beemer will be heaven on those curves down the mountain, but the S is also a fantastic experience - very Formula 1 like. The biggest problem with the Tesla is that it isn't a convertible - I can't help that bit of design (but you could pick up a used Roadster). The Tesla is a huge car, by far the biggest I have ever owned, but it also handles unlike any sedan I have ever driven.

Carl Thompson | 12 april 2017

@carlk , @CraigW

I hear what you both are saying and I completely agree that in most ways the 3 or the S is a better driving experience. But in its own way in its own niche the Z4 is a better driving experience. Maybe I'm just old and that's why the old school concepts of manually shifting gears, feeling the vibration of the engine and actually having to _work_ to drive a car sometimes appeals to me. That's the feeling a Tesla, even a Roadster, can't give.

Carl

SamO | 12 april 2017

BMW - Ultimate Incomplete Combustion Machine.

carlk | 12 april 2017

@Carl Thompson Most people still thought flip phone was nice even after iPhone first came out. The Tesla driving experience can never be matched by an ICE car if you're a car person. Yo need to find it out yourself

Civicrick | 12 april 2017

Lets pull off our mufflers and tear up Pismo!

akgolf | 12 april 2017

Civicrick are you talking about Pismo Beach?

Civicrick | 12 april 2017

Uh... yes

akgolf | 12 april 2017

I live in Oklahoma now, but I grew up in Arroyo Grande and Grover City, before Grover City changed their name to Grover Beach.

My sister still lives in Arroyo Grande and my brother lives in Oceano.

Civicrick | 12 april 2017

Ahh. I'm not in California anymore either but I grew up in Hawthorne and Playa del Rey. My father died about 5 years ago so the Playa house is gone. We did the Rt 1 thing quite a few times when I was growing up. Last time I was at Pismo was about 12 years ago. I missed the 4wd sign and got my van stuck. Cool guy hustled over and pulled me out before the tow truck vulture came. I think he said that guy would have charged me $150 to pull me out

carlk | 12 april 2017

"EV's are all about lower emissions...you might say that is the mission of EV's."

It is all about the best car, the best car that happens to be an EV that Tesla is making. Model 3's bull's eye is right at BMW and Audi not Leaf or Bolt. You can stop hallucinating now BMW will soon see the hard time. I don't know if you're working in Munich or at an US BMW dealership but either way it's wise to look for a new employement sooner rather than later. If you don't burn too much bridge Tesla is going to hire a lot of people in the coming years for sure even in Germany.

carlk | 12 april 2017

Elon said it not I. He said he's going to build the best car which happens to be an EV from the very beginning. That's how he sees the only way to achieve the transformation to sustainable transportation.

carlk | 12 april 2017

Give it up. Don't know if you're just trying to lie or you're in denial but you do eventually need to face the music. If you missed what I said earlier in this thread and quoted by Red here it is for you again. I'll keep reminding you if you keep on hallucinating.

"That's why Elon always says he's making the best car which happens to be an EV. Two things ICE performance cars are always trying to achieve (but never succeeded), low end torque/throttle response and perfect cog/weight distribution are all naturally there in an EV. Plus the third one that you could have all these without the concern of getting unacceptable gas consumption or emissions. That's why the first victim of the Model 3 would be performance ICE cars and also why this really makes BMW trolls like the Eagle desperate."

JeffreyR | 12 april 2017

Cannot wait to take my M3 "over the hill" on the 17 and head South on PCH.

CraigW | 12 april 2017

I have read many of Pigeon's entries and he/she can't seem to get off the thought that the only reason for buying an EV is to lower the emissions. All EVs do this and they didn't change the market, so that must be what Tesla is doing - that's his train of thought (dis-information).

Of course Elon began by saying he wanted the best car, it just happened to be an EV. He may not be the #1 car maker, but he sure can force others to make competitive EVs that way.

carlk | 12 april 2017

He's trying to spread fake info but not very good at it. BMW is hopeless it doesn't not even know how to hire a good troll,

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