Wow. I have compared the model 3 width to BMW 5; it seems the former is larger!
I guessed a long time ago that the Model ☰ would be a bit wider than its contemporaries, 3-Series, A4, and C-Class. It will also have a longer wheelbase than those cars. I love that Trev Page confirmed what I thought about in my initial impressions of Model ☰, that it has a much lower dashboard than other cars. The result is that it appears the roofline is raised, thereby resulting in what feels like a higher driving position relative to the rest of the car. It is nice that someone finally was able to bring back the open and airy greenhouse that I used to love about Honda products, by using an electric drivetrain, and still not losing out on safety. I despise cars that have a 'beltline' at my ears, so that I feel as if I am lowriding in a bathtub.
sbeggs: Thanks! I'm rather certain that adding that extra 4" to 6" to the height of the lower ledge of door windows in passenger cars is what lead to so many people deciding to purchase SUVs (and the occasional Minivan) so that they could see out of the vehicle from a higher seating position. That, plus the insistence by Detroit automakers that larger vehicles were inherently 'safer' pushed a whole bunch of gas guzzlers. But, Man... I loved the driving position of a Civic, Prelude, or Accord back in the late 1980s and early 1990s... I could see everywhere -- and everything!
You are right. Two years ago my sister went from a 1993 Honda Civic with excellent visibility to a new Accord she can't see out of. Once she sees the Model 3...
Bear in mind that safety requirements have changed dramatically since the late 80's, early 90's. The thin windshield frames on those Hondas would never pass current safety standards.
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but just how wide is the Model 3? Has the width been officially announced by Tesla or just an extrapolated guess? It needs to fit in my standard size two car garage alongside my not so narrow Model S.
Not officially announced; Wikipedia has the numbers from Motor Trends review of the Alpha:https://en.wikipedia org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3
Estimated measurements:L × W × H: 184.8 in × 74.2 in × 56.5 in (4,694 mm × 1,885 mm × 1,435 mm)
jordanrichard: As I've mentioned before, there were three separate crash tests that were introduced after 1990 specifically to kill Hondas. That was done in the wake of the Honda Accord proving everyone in Detroit wrong. The Detroit Big Three claimed it was impossible to meet CARB regulations with a Midsize car that was preferred by the American populace. The Detroit Big three said it was impossible to meet CAFE regulations with a Midsize car either. The Detroit Big Three argued that larger cars were safer, that small, fuel efficient Japanese cars were death traps, that no one would buy their cars if they were built to meet regulations, and that it was a matter of Safety that fuel economy regulations be relaxed, so they could keep selling larger cars.
Then, the 1990 Honda Accord arrived. It absolutely ~*ACED*~ the NHTSA crash tests -- despite being a Japanese design and weighing in at around 2,800 pounds in base trim -- around 600-to-800 pounds less than a Ford Taurus. It still qualified as a Midsize (like the Taurus) car per the EPA -- because that was determined by interior volume for passengers and luggage -- not by wheelbase, overall length, width, or curb weight. It also was the very first Midsize car to meet CAFE, surpassing it, even. And it also was the first ICE car to qualify under CARB as a 'Zero Harmful Emissions Vehicle', nothing from the tailpipe was found to contribute to the formation of smog. These factors allowed the Honda Accord to become the #1 best selling passenger vehicle in the U.S. Oh, and on top of all that, though offered from a Japanese company, it wasn't an import. 100% of the Accord units were built in Marysville OH, right here in the U.S.
Naturally, the Detroit Big Three were [PEEVED]. They claimed it wasn't fair, they said it was a trick, they were certain Honda had cheated somehow... And upon learning the results were all perfectly legitimate, they switched tactics.
The Detroit Big Three argued that if there was a tailpipe, there must be SOMETHING harmful being emmitted. So CARB retested the Accord, then lowered the acceptable threshold to a fraction of the allowed amounts -- even for gases they did not previously consider 'harmful' -- based upon what they did measure from that car. No other ICE ever qualified as a ZHEV again -- though some years later traditional automobile manufacturers argued in favor of 'Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle' (PZEV) cars with automatic stop-start technology, as a benefit to the environment, CARB bought it, and issued a fraction of a ZEV Credit for ICE cars so equipped.
The Detroit Big Three argued it was somehow 'unfair' that Honda was able to advertise their cars as being so fuel efficient. So, for the first time since the inception of the program, they lobbied for Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) ratings to be increased -- just so Honda would be below the mark with their best selling car.
The Detroit Big Three conspired to introduce three different crash tests that did not previously exist, specifically designed to make Hondas look bad: The half overlap frontal crash, the pole into driver side door, and a rollover test that required the roof be able to support four-to-five times the vehicle's weight.
Δ The Accord, and every other passenger car on the market, had been designed to endure the full frontal crash test, distributing crash energies evenly through the frame of the car. The half overlap test was not necessary, and needed cars to be ridiculously beefed up just to get a minimal passing grade.
Δ There had already been a side impact test that the Accord aced -- designed to simulate being T-boned by another car. By simulating a lateral crash into a pole or tree -- something that typically only happens to street racers -- this new test was unnecessary and bypassed the benefit of cars designed so that the frame would absorb damage by putting the pressure on hinges & latches instead. So a heavy extra cross member had to be installed within door panels to further diminish risk of cabin intrusion.
Δ With the growing popularity of SUVs and a widening populace of drivers who were used to low center of gravity cars buying those enclosed trucks without being used to their driving characteristics, there had been a rash of reports of rollovers. This had been a particular problem for buyers of the Ford Explorer, yet for some reason ( the Accord) it was decided to introduce rollover tests for passenger cars, even though the likelihood of rollover was next to nothing (especially in a Honda with double wishbone independent suspension at all four corners). So, to meet this requirement, the pillars that support the roof of a car had to become much thicker all around. That process has resulted in poor visibility from the drivers seat, which has become so bad that rearview cameras and collision warning sensors are now a necessity on modern cars today.
Thus, even larger cars got bigger and heavier, with worse fuel economy. That is why, though they seemed to be on a trajectory to reach at least 75 MPG by 2000 AD or so, Honda never did with ICE. They have become less than complacent, with no real engineering innovation anymore. All because their engineering philosophy, which was perfectly sound and produced safe, fun to drive, fuel efficient, lightweight, popular vehicles was made moot by a regulatory witch hunt lead by competitors who didn't wish to compete. Hence, why I am overjoyed by the sanctions and fines placed on Volkswagen after DieselGate, who cheated purposefully and got away with it for so long. Honda didn't cheat, but were punished anyway for being smarter than everyone else.
I hope this is an automotive history lesson that Tesla is aware of.
That version of the Honda Accord was the best shifting manual transmission car I have driven. A 2011 BMW 328i puts up better times. Both are really nice cars. A friend at work still has a 1991 Accord auto...
Oh yeah, one more point... The good news is that campaign against Honda has made it easier for Tesla, and electric cars in general, to gain acceptance. Because if other manufacturers had not complained, and actually made an effort to build better cars instead of attempting to 'level the playing field' by making sure everyone made gas guzzlers...? We might have seen smaller, more fuel efficient cars from all of them. And, once hybrid and plugin technology was added to those vehicles, their fuel economy would have soared to even greater heights. And, those vehicles that were previously lauded for their nimbleness and handling wouldn't have become such porkers in comparison over the past two decades. Spite is not a longterm business plan.
ReD eXiLe ms us +42
@Red: "Spite is not a longterm business plan."
Thank you kindly.
74.2 in or 188,5 cm. is pretty wide. That is wider than a BMW 5-series by 2 cm, wider than a Subaru Outback by 4,5 cm and wider than an Audi A6 by 1 cm. Not very practical for me then..
I'm amazed by these dimensions. That's the same length as our Nissan Rogue SUV and 2 inches wider. Going to have to take some careful measurements for the parking arrangement in our garage. I know many will say just sale the Rogue but that is my wife's baby plus if I can't get AWD in my M3, I will be driving that in the snow.
With automatic parking you will not have to steer.
I also think it is too wide and too long. I am an old guy, but have various millenial friends who live in an urban environment. There, smaller is better. It seems to me that the M3 dimensions are more like a Toyota Camry (family car) than a BMW 3 series. I fear Tesla 'missed the boat' on this one and sales will not be as good for younger folks as we had hoped.
"I fear Tesla 'missed the boat' on this one and sales will not be as good for younger folks as we had hoped."
They weren't targeting buyers by age or location, they were targeting a certain class of vehicles. The model 3 dimensions appear to compare very closely with the vehicles it lists as its intended competition, BMW 3, Audi A3/A4, Alpha Romeo Giulia. In some cases it might be an inch or two bigger but in most it is right there with the others.
I think that people may not realize just how much cars have grown in the past two decades. The current BMW 3-Series is a lot bigger than one from the mid 1980s or early 1990s. And, in hindsight, when I see a BMW 5-Series or 7-Series from that time period, they really aren't that big either -- compared to their current iterations. People make the same mistake with Japanese cars, remembering what they were like 25 years ago, and not realizing it has been a long time since the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra were actually 'small' cars at all.
The overall footprint appears to be virtually identical to the typical car in the mid-sized sedan category. If is was smaller, there would be complaints that it doesn't belong in the mid-sized category and people would start saying it is to big as a compact car.
The "3" is designed to carry people. They targeted a size that would sit 5 adults comfortably. (I appreciate this. It seems perfect for my needs.) It is aimed at the prime part of the market as an affordable family car.
Yes, I agree cars have gradually gotten bigger over the last decades, even the 3 series. but when i compare current 3-series and Audi A3 and A4 to Tesla Model 3, the 3 is at least a couple inches longer and wider than all of those. Doesnt sound like much, but i hang out with lots of urban millennials who park on crowded city streets. And those folks consider the 3 series as big as they want to go. the Fiat 500e and Leaf and eGolf are more their size. And, when i go into the city the MS is a pain to park and sometimes to navigate narrow streets. So, I usually take our Kia Soul EV instead.
And, by targetting millenials, Tesla can capture a group of buyers who will be around for along time (unless Uber and Lyft take over the world!). But OK, I see you are saying Tesla did NOT target millenials. The car is more of a famiily car. It just happens that millenials are the ones most excited about it - becuase it is electric.
And, sure the Model 3 is a nice size for a 5 passenger family sedan. But, as we know the 'sedan' is now a tiny segment of the market. Most former sedan drivers now drive SUVs or CUVs. cant wait for the Y!
Anyway, end of my rant....... thanks for listening.....
Whatever it is, it'll fit in my tiny city garage since it's older sister Ellie fits. (If you call having 2-3" on either side of the mirror fitting.)
its* older sister. Excuse the typo.
I currently have a VW CC it has the following dimensions 188 inches long, 73.1 inches wide and 56 inches tall.
So the Model 3 is wider and taller and slightly shorter. The VW also has 13 cubic ft of boot space. Now I regularly have luggage, four adults in the car and there is plenty of space to fit everyone, three large suitcases and a small one. So if the Model three has the same storage space and roughly the same dimensions this makes me a very happy boy. If there are folding seats in the Model 3 even happier.
I have the FSI verion with 6 cyclinders and zero to 100 kph (60mph) is about the same as they state for the Model 3, so no loss of straight line performance, again happy boy.
I live in Australia so the glass roof if the only option would possibly be an issue but partner has VW Touareg with the panoramic sunroof and we survived with 40 degrees Celsius several times this year, so again not a loss.
The CC has adaptive cruise control so autopilot will give me this so again no loss. So I will be as well off as I am now and I will have an electric car, with instant torque and more advanced and constantly updating software.
So I can't believe I am actually thinking of buying an American car, the reputation for US cars in this country is quite low. I hope those who are thinking of cancelling over trivial things like the HUD etc give the car a good look over before changing their minds.
Excitement plus and the fact I will have to wait over a year more is tedious but I will survive.
I take note that quite a few people in my Family that are younger than I am are now Grandparents. Funny how that potential happenstance never actually occurred to me before it taking place. It is weird to have my Cousins who are like little Brothers and Sisters to me have someone toddle up to them and call them 'Grandma' or 'Grandpa'. So, yeah... Family cars are still important, even if the trend is that youngsters are less likely to get Married, have Children, or buy a car these days.
But 'less' is not the same as 'not'... And the majority of SUVs and Crossovers are still outsold by Sedans in the U.S. Mostly those vehicles have overtaken Minivans, which were much more popular a decade ago than they are today. Which is fitting, because it was the Minivan that killed off the Station Wagon for American buyers. It is important to note that Sedans have not so much diminished in popularity, as SUVs and Crossovers have increased in popularity.
Even then, it is those cars marketed as 'Compact SUVs' that have seen the greatest increase in Sales the past decade or so. The Honda CR-V runs neck-and-neck with the Accord and Civic from the same brand in Sales. The Nissan Rogue surpasses the Sentra in popularity, but is still behind the Altima in Sales. The Toyota Camry and Corolla still stay ahead of the RAV4 in Sales. And the Ford Fusion stays ahead of the Focus and Escape.
It is full sized Pickup Trucks that rule the land in new vehicle Sales in the U.S. year in and year out -- not SUVs. Though during 2015 YTD, the aforementioned Rogue, CR-V, and RAV4 are the three runner ups thus far behind F-Series, Silverado, and RAM Pickup Truck series. After those six are the usual suspects among Sedans -- Camry, Corolla, Civic, and Accord -- followed by the Escape. So, three Pickup Trucks, three SUVs, and four Sedans in the top ten.
The Sedan is far from dead in the market.
>>> the reputation for US cars in this country is quite low.
Regrettably, that's pretty much true in the US also.
Frank99, there is hope if Tesla becomes a driving force, I think either GM, Ford and Chrysler will need to rapidly innovate or die, unless they do their usual trick and legislate Telsa to death. I seriously hope Americans, rally behind Tesla and stop that if they try it. I am stunned there is no public backlash against the states that are blocking Tesla's sales model. American's blocking an American company it is very strange.
Tesla has created far more jobs than any of the dealerships and these are high end well paying jobs that create more taxes, more cash through the economy and all home grown, I am at a loss how this is even allowed.
attica04: Tesla is going up against forces for whom 'Dirty Tricks & Tactics' was the only form of 'ethics' course they ever took -- and they cheated to pass it. So, among those efforts was an immediate smear campaign to make it seem as if Tesla was the one who was attempting to get 'special treatment' by requesting exemptions from standard issue franchise laws, so they could get a dealer's license to sell their own cars. Naturally, such reports never mentioned that it was the 'independent franchised dealerships' that in some cases had just had the laws changed in a manner that Tesla had to request such exemptions in the first place... But without that information, people naturally were led to believe that Tesla was in the wrong for not 'playing by the same rules as everyone else' or whatever.
In many of the States where they are barred, or limited, in their ability to sell direct, the franchise laws only applied to automobile manufacturers that actually had active franchise agreement contracts with franchisees. Those laws were only changed in those States to make franchises mandatory after Tesla showed some success in sales without them. In some other States the law stayed the same, because regulators and the judiciary agreed that the laws did not apply to Tesla at all. A few States offered a compromise, where Tesla could sell direct, but only through a limited number of locations, typically four or five. At least one State, Utah, has firmly stated that Tesla absolutely cannot sell direct there at all -- there may be others with that position as well (Iowa, maybe).
I really don't see what should be so special about the automobile business that the distribution of new cars should be so heavily controlled, but always in favor of 'independent franchised dealerships'. All anyone seems to offer a strawman arguments about 'local business' that is 'part of the community'. McDonald's and Starbucks and Walmart and Target seem to hire from the local pool of employees and participate in community events. I don't understand why Tesla wouldn't be afforded the same opportunity.
Franchise laws in many States were originally devised to protect the 'independent franchised dealerships' from direct competition from the automobile manufacturers they represented and signed direct contracts with. They were not meant to prevent automobile manufacturers from selling direct at all. They were not meant to ensure that automobile manufacturers would guarantee business to 'independent franchised dealerships' as a monopoly on new car sales.
But no one bothers to tell all that to the public. They don't get outraged until they find out. And some simply don't care.