Not sure if that 400 kW is really given as I don't see it on Tesla's web site.
So we have a 30A Leaf charger. Sounds like the smart thing to do is keep that one for the small battery pack M3 (since it only does 32 A max anyway)?
I use my 30 amp charging station that I bought for my Leaf to also charge my 70D, and it is just fine. It adds about 23 miles per hour, which is plenty fast for home charging.
The Model 3 Store is online to order charging stuff and I am considering getting the $500 S/X/3 connector.
From what I'm seeing the $500 wall charger won't get you much on an M3 that a NEMA 240v plug doesn't already do a good bit cheaper.
@knight. It doesn't. The HPWC is much neater and allows we to use my UMC for travel without disconnecting it each day. And my city offers a $500 rebate on the HPWC
Already have 240 plug in garage...the mobile Evse that comes with the Model 3 should charge fine from that right? I just plan to hang that pretty much permenantly on my garage wall...
@Keydriver - Wow, 23 miles per hour is very good and much better than I expected. We get around 10 on the Volt with that charger. I guess it is on the onboard charging capability that limits it?
Since we are planning to buy two M3s (one extended range, one regular) It seems like it would make the most sense for us to buy a second charging station as well so we can leave the portable ones in the car. Hmm...
I wish the POS Blink charging station we bought previously had not died (in less than two years). Grumble, grumble.
Maybe not. I expect we will rarely use the mobile charger on the road. Maybe save the $500 and just put in the NEMA 14-50 plug where the dead Blink current hangs...
Yes--has worked for 4 years for me--dry outlet.
So the choices (and yes, I know these are not the only two choices) are pay to have a NEMA 14-50 installed and use an adapter that is coming with the car, or buy the wall charger, pay to have it installed, and use that?
So 14-50 is a bit less money, but less convenient, and wall charger is a bit more money, but more convenient?
Is this correct?
@csmith - Correct if your definition of convenient means not having to pack up a relatively thick, heavy cord for road trips. Also, the HPWC is nice looking. When we got our MS, it was $1,000 so I didn't even consider it. After it dropped down, I was already so used to using a 14-50 and our UMC.
With the M3, we'll get an extra cord to keep coiled up nicely in a bag to take with us on trips. One will remain in the garage.
Ok, so cost of install + keeping cords in trunk vs lower cost and transferring cords are my choices, as I thought. Thanks.
Luckily, I have until next summer to research my costs and decide.
Advice is welcome:
I have a Blink charger for our Leaf and I'm hoping the M3 comes with an adapter to use the J1772. Would like to be able to park either Leaf or M3 near the Blink at different times. One solution would be to back the M3 into the garage so the Blink cord reaches the M3 charge port. Another (worse option, I think) is to unplug Blink and plug in the UMC when we are charging Tesla instead of Leaf. Do we know how long the included UMC cord will be (not even sure it would reach)?
Yes, the 3 should come with a J1772 adapter, the S/X do. The UMC cord is pretty long, 18' I believe.
Ohh...maybe I'm mistaken on how the UMC works. Does the UMC plug into the Blink using the J1772 adapter or does the J1772 adapter allow the Blink to charge directly into the charge port without the UMC? Sorry, this sounds like a basic question I should know the answer to...I'll try to research the answer also.
@JAD - Thanks! Taking a look at the Tesla charging page, it looks like the UMC plugs directly into the Blink using the J1772 adapter! That would allow me to just park the M3 in normally and then plug the UMC into the Blink and have plenty of length (20 ft) to reach the M3 charger! (no need to unplug the Blink from the wall!)
/M3 charger/M3 charge port/
We have a really great resource. TeslaTap has a lot of detailed information on this subject. Great charts, links and all kinds of useful stuff
Thanks TeslaTap for all your work to communicate this info.
@Mike83 - thanks for the link! That clearly shows that my research was too quick/cursory! Thanks TeslaTap for the much more understandable charging information! The J1772 adapter is used WITHOUT the UMC. Therefore I still have a distance issue unless I back in the M3 (since I really don't want to keep unplugging the Blink).
Oy, there are a lot of terrible inaccuracies in that article. And it’s written by a Tesla owner, who should know better.
Quote: “120 volt NEMA 5-15 adapter. That solution would result in no required installation of a home connector, but the vehicle would be limited to around 5 miles (8 km) of range per hour of charging.”
5 miles? Well, with the Model 3 being more efficient, I suppose that’s possible, but the Model S is more like 3, so that would be a pretty big increase, so I doubt that number a bit.
Quote: “Now for those who would like some more power at home, they can either use a 240v NEMA 14-50 plug with again the 20-foot mobile connector and included adapter, which should triple your charge rate”
It’s more than triple. Basic math will fix this. The 120V at 12A is 1.4kW. Depending on the 32A or 40A charging, it’s 7.68kW or 9.6kW. Those are about 5X or 7X.
Quote: “It’s always preferable to have your mobile connector inside your car when you are on the road so not having to get the long cable in and out of your trunk when at home is one of the main advantages of having a home connector.”
This is that mistaken idea that using a mobile cable means you need to pack and unpack it every day. Most people just leave them on the wall in the garage. You generally don’t need it with you in the car every day.
What?!! The mobile charge cable has that same button, so it’s not true that the wall connector has that advantage over it.
Quote: “With this said, you can technically buy any other wall connector and use the J1772 charging adapter included with the Model 3. One of my preferred third-party solutions is the Juicebox, which has a Wifi connection and a very nice app.”
Ah, so this is the next paragraph, and it shows what he was doing wrong; this is just bad writing. It’s called “writer-based prose”. That’s when an author has some important details or context in their mind, and so they write something that relates to it, but they don’t realize that they forgot to actually write down that context, so readers can’t make sense of what was actually written. In this case, he was talking about the UMC, and then (in his mind) had shifted topics to J1772 versus the Tesla-brand wall connectors. But he forgot to mention that change in topics, so it sounds like he’s still comparing the Tesla UMC to the Tesla wall connector.
Quote: “In order to get the full potential regardless of the chosen wall connector, you need a circuit breaker and cable installation about 20% over the amperage of the vehicle – like 40A for the base version or 50A for the long range version.”
Arrrgghh. Again with the bad basic math. It’s either 25% more or 20% less.
Quote: “It’s also adjustable so there’s no need to absolutely go for the full potential. For example, I have a dual charger in my car with technically a capacity of 80A and a Tesla Wall Connector rated at 72A”
No, the wall connector is rated for 80A too.
In my travels I ran across a Tesla owner who's wife had a Leaf before they got the Tesla. They made no changes and have no problems charging both cars overnight. My Tesla came to their house with 0RM in the evening and was fully charged the next morning on their setup.
Don't worry, almost any solution will work. We use a NEMA 14-50 outlet at home and have an extra cord, which we carry in the car at all times. We plan on no changes or additions when we get my wife's Model 3.
Oh, whoops, I accidentally had the wrong thing copied when I pasted in my response. There was this:
Quote: "Other advantages of the Tesla Wall Connector are that the button on the handle opens your car’s charge port when pressed, which saves you one step in the charging process, and there’s no need for an adapter to match Tesla’s proprietary plug."
That's where he seems to be saying the charge port release button is a feature of the wall connector over the UMC.
@CraigW - I wasn't worried about the electrical / speed of the charging - just the mechanics of it. Leaf is parked on the right side of the garage. Blink is in the garage near the right front bumper of the Leaf. Blink cable won't reach to the back left bumper of the Tesla. I may need to move the Blink to be near the right passenger door of the Leaf to be able to reach the Leaf charge port on the front AND the Tesla charge port on the back, left.
You can purchase a J-1772 extension cable to bring the Blink cable to your M3 charge port if you want a quick fix. (http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JLONG-40-Amp-J1772-extension-cable-JL40...)
@Earl and Nagin - excellent idea! Could mount it across the ceiling of the garage too...maybe a 'heavy duty' retractable cord reel to pull it down when in use (I'll have to search to see if those exist.)
I wish Tesla would make a Nema 14-50 plug in version of the HPWC. Good aesthetics, and the convenience of the auto lid opening.
The Elektrek article correctly says that Tesla has not published the DC charging particulars for the M3. They just say 170 miles in 30 minutes which must assume a low state of charge to begin with. If you stay with 140 rated miles in the tank and want to add 170 miles (100%) it would probably take over an hour.
You can reverse engineer the M3 battery pack particulars, though, at least approximately. 310 rated miles with a 75 kWh is about 4.3 miles per kWh, assuming 5 kwh buffer. 170 miles starting with a somewhat empty battery should therefore equate to 39.5 kWh in 30 minutes. This means the charge rate is limited to about 79 kW of power.
We don't know how many modules of what size are in the battery pack. We know that the 2170 cells have a capacity of about 20 wh. That's 50 per kWh or about 3750 cells to get 75 kWh. That's a little more than half the number in a 85/90 kWh 18650 pack. If there are 16 modules and 6 groups of cells per module, the number of cells needs to be an integer multiple of 96. 3744 cells would do the trick with 39 in parallel in each group. The maximum charging DC voltage would then be 403 volts as for the S and X. 79 kW at 400 volts yields a charging current of about 197.5 amps or 5 amps per cell, 1 amp more than the maximum charging current for 18650 cells in Tesla cars. This stands to reason, since the 2170s have about 46% more electrode surface area and should be able to tolerate a higher charging current than their smaller cousins.
Thanks for tolerating this guesswork.
stay with = start with
IMO - Tesla is rating the supercharge time from 0 RM for 30 minutes.
Obviously this is the max charge possible in the minimum time. Since the 310 battery is larger than the 220 battery the curve to full will have less slope change/RM. This is most likely where they get there 170 RM vs 130 RM difference. There wouldn't be much sense in using different algorithms just to fill the M3 smaller battery.
Now the on-board charger is a different animal. Tesla has stated that the 220 RM battery has a 32 amp limit and the 310 RM battery has a 40 amp limit (like the S & X single chargers). However, this has nothing to do with the superchargers.
my opinion-get the wall charger 24' er. You'll be forward compatible for a long while and if you have double garage it will reach no matter where or how you park.
If you're cheap... yeah that nema will work but wall charger is best.
Always have my mobile charger in the car if needed. No need to have to remember to put it in the car at home should my schedule change or I decide to head to a golf course or fly fish.
4 teslas owned and soon to be 5.
100amp breaker and 80amp wall charger.
currently get 54m/hr of charge.
The Model 3 doesn't have the option of dual chargers. This means they are limited to 32 amps for 220 and 40 amps for 310, well within the NEMA 14-50 capabilities.
Sure the Tesla wall charger looks much better, but for those on a budget, you will not be sacrificing much if you choose to go NEMA 14-50.
What is the estimated price difference between the wall charger and NEMA, or would it vary too much based on area?
@csmith476, Most of the installation cost and wire is the same between the two. That may run something like a few hundred to a thousand that will be the same for both. The price difference is that the wall connector is about $550, while the parts for the 14-50 outlet are more like $20-ish.
Hmm, I thought I remembered reading that it was recommended to get a Tesla certified electrician to do the wall connector. If that's the case, I may have to go NEMA, since I can get that installation done for MUCH cheaper (father-in-law manages a company that does electric).
@csmith (and everybody else out there who’s looking to save money)
For the Model 3, the NEMA 14-50 is the best option. The Wall Connector works and looks great. I installed one for my Model S, but I’ve found it’s an unnecessary luxury. You can use your mobile connector everyday and just leave it plugged in in your garage. If you know you’ll be going on a road trip, you can take it with you.
In case you think you’ll need to charge with a public charging station, that can be done with your J1772 adapter, which is separate from your mobile charging wire. You can leave that adapter in the car.