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Current Model S/X owners

Current Model S/X owners

For a first time Tesla owner would the standard battery be efficient. Being new to this I'm not sure how the range anxiety is, but being that it was a Model S 60 with less miles before it must not be too bad. I want the long range, but not sure if that would be in my budget. I'm just very torn because I know I can't upgrade the battery later.

For someone who travels maybe once every 1-2 months would the standard work and for current owners with 60/75 batteries has the range been okay for you all. Thanks for the help.

EVfamilyGrins | 19 december 2017

For daily driving there is little range anxiety as you leave home every day with a full (80%) charge. For the long trips, it depends on where you are traveling. Most of us charge at the same SCs anyways and those with more range just have shorter SC stops. If you travel off the path from SCs then range is more of an issue. Also if you drive faster or in cold weather that reduces range and may affect you decision.

Rutrow | 19 december 2017

Use EVTripplanner.com to virtually test your expected long distance routes to see if the SR battery will work for you.

https://www.evtripplanner.com/

nutts1 | 19 december 2017

I think cold weather is a key point. I find I lose about 10% in the winter. If that tips the scales go bigger battery.

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

Thanks for the comments. I didn't think about winter. I live in Oklahoma so the winters aren't very terrible, but that is something to think about. I just plan on buying this car and keeping it long term. I seems that a lot of tesla owners have a car for a few years and get another. Not sure if that's because they lease, want the newest thing, or its because they want more range. I don't want to feel I have to upgrade for more range in the near future. Hmm maybe it would just be safe for me to get LR, but definitely for daily driving it would be fine and it seems that the roadtrips I take have many SC along the way. Just such a hard decision.

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

Based on trip Planner it seems that you still stop pretty much at the same chargers. Just a little less time to wait.

Rutrow | 19 december 2017

@Glwkb8, if you want to drive to Little Rock, you'll have to go via Dallas. There's a serious SC gap between Tulsa and LR along I-40. Until an SC is added around Alma AR, you'll be stuck around Russelville for a few hours on a destination charger.

Carl Thompson | 19 december 2017

Losing 10% in winter (on cold days) seems a little low based on what other owners have posted here and based on my own experience in other EVs. If it's cold out and you plan on using the car's cabin heater I'd plan on at least 20% range loss. It might be less or on bad days it might be more. I've heard owners talk about as high as 30%.

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

@Ruthrow you're right. It definitely is a gap going that direction. Luckily I don't typically drive that direction, but based on Tesla's supercharging map it seems that they're in the process of filling that gap next year. My model 3 estimation is May-Jul so hopefully by then that gap is full. I typically drive from OKC to St.Louis a lot and that route is pretty much taken care of luckily.

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

@Carl 30% is a lot especially if I were to travel. I may just have to get the LR and sacrifice autopilot if I can't get in a good budget.

Carl Thompson | 19 december 2017

@Glwkb8

30% wouldn't be every day... Just a possible worse case scenario. Most days would be less. Also remember that if you plan on charging to just 80% or 90% as recommended you'll need to factor that in as well as the cold weather drop. That's one reason why I'm just going with the long range even though I probably don't need it.

KP in NPT | 19 december 2017

I am a 70D owner and in NE winters the range has been zero issue even on road trips up to NH and VT. Supercharger coverage is more than adequate and the few minutes you'd save to charge every so often might not be worth the 9K price increase.

My regular commute is 185 miles and requires supercharging - in winter in the most extreme conditions I've driven in (temps in the teens, snow) it added about 30 minutes charging time to my trip.

The smaller battery will be fine for 99% of people but take Rutrow's advice and plug in trips you might take into EVTripplanner using a 60D (which has similar range) and see what comes up.

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

@KP in NPT thank you. That definitely helps. I think most people just feel the LR would be for a peace of mind kind of thing. I'm sure most people won't utilize it that often other than random road trips.

PhillyGal | 19 december 2017

I'll echo KP. There are so many super chargers in a lot of areas, that the short range battery will be more than enough. However, I've never heard someone regret getting a longer range battery if they can make the cost work.

Check out supercharge.info to see where chargers are in your area. Think about your frequent longer trips and determine coverage. I find myself stopping at every charger rather than skipping (with my S85) and know definitively I don't need a long range Model 3.

+`1 for the long range is faster accelleration
+100 is potentially getting it sooner

(I'm still agonizing myself.)

KP in NPT | 19 december 2017

The old adage is "get the biggest battery you can afford" but in our case, when buying our 70D, it was "the biggest you're willing to pay for." When the 70D was announced, that was the combination of range and price that made us most comfortable given how we drive.

I will not lie that I am looking forward to the extra range on my Model 3. But my regular commute is an extreme example and I know I will benefit regularly from the extra range and reduced charging time. There is a chance my commute will change shortly to be much shorter but I'm still getting the bigger battery. It will be interesting to see which car we take on road trips - the larger, more comfortable Model S or the longer range 3.

So, I guess now after owning a 70D, I'd say "get the biggest battery you can afford" - if you can stomach the extra 9K you will not regret it, but you also won't be disappointed with the smaller battery given what you posted about your regular driving.

burdogg | 19 december 2017

I will echo and add some personal thoughts :)

I have a S 70D and at the time, agonized over getting the 70D or the 85D at the time - extra range and 1 sec faster acceleration. I went back and forth like crazy, but in the end, this car was never going to be driven long long distance, as my whole family can't fit in it. So stuck with the 70D. The $10,000 saved was nice, especially after a year in a Tesla, I had to get one for the whole family to travel in - so that $10,000 savings went right towards our 2nd Tesla, the X.

The X - we went with a 90D as the extra range was a must. Here is where you have to look at what trips you will make. To see my family - the direct route has a spot where the superchargers are 220 miles apart. That is pushing it - especially winter at night. We just did the trip and left the one with 250 miles (A little over an hour stop just to get it to charge all the way) and we arrived with like 18 miles left. A 75D would NOT have made it - or it would have, we just would have had to slow way down and take more time. We could have diverted to a different supercharger, but that would 60 miles to the already 512 mile trip. So it took us 9.5 hours, where if we had the shorter battery and had to go out of direct route to a different charger, it would have been 11 hour trip (1 hour for miles, 30 min for extra charge stop).

So yes, most times the shorter battery is best, especially if you can make it to all the locations you want to go - hence the check your map etc.. that has been mentioned. But the mantra is - get the biggest battery you can afford.

But here is my other thought - if you have a spouse - you may start off with the short range, save the extra money, because you may end up like us, after having one, you just have to have another :) And in that case, by the time that comes around, you would have used the short range enough to know if you really need the long range :)

Glwkb8 | 19 december 2017

@Burdogg Thanks for the thoughts. Unfortunately my spouse wants a Mercedes and I can't talk her out of it. I've tried lol. I guess since I'm not leasing this car I would like to keep it a good while without having to upgrade anytime soon so I guess in that case maybe I should shell out the 9k. but saving the 9k would be nice. Here I go again going back n forth. I've never done this with any other car I've ever purchased. Walked right in and got my audi one day with no regret lol. This Tesla mess is hard, but still can't wait to get it.

Carl Thompson | 19 december 2017

Remember, the battery upgrade isn't _only_ about range. You also get:
- Faster charging and faster supercharging
- Longer battery lifespan and longer battery warranty
- Quicker acceleration
- Faster top speed
- Potentially better resale value. In 5 years it might be harder to sell a car with "only" 200 miles of range.
- Support Tesla a little more

Add in the longer range and $9k seems a reasonable price to me.

Haggy | 19 december 2017

I have an 85. On most long trips I've taken, the number of stops would have been the same with a 60 and the amount of time would have been similar. There was only one case where a 60 would have been a problem had that been the only difference. But there's now a supercharger near that destination, and it's on the same block as one of the places I went to eat on that trip. If I had to do it over again, it would be no problem at all in a 60 or base Model 3. But had the supercharger not been built, I might have made sure to reserve a room at a hotel with a destination charger. The place where I ate also had free ChargePoint chargers in the hotel parking lot, so at 14 miles of charge per hour, it would have been an ordeal if not staying the night there, but not a big deal if I had stayed there. The difference in room price compared to a battery upgrade wouldn't matter, if there even would have been a difference.

If I were to buy a new Model S today, I'd go for the 75D and not the 100.

KP in NPT | 19 december 2017

+1000 Burdogg - It's totally normal and practically expected to want a second one - because you'll fight over the first one. ;-)

burdogg | 19 december 2017

@Glwkb8 - just wait - after your wife drives your Tesla, she might be thinking differently. Now, not just a one time drive, but tell her to take it for say 2 weeks and only drive it. After that, I would be a little surprised that she doesn't want one over the Mercedes. Of course everyone has their opinion and she may still want the Mercedes, but I found after driving the S for a constant period, and then switching to our Expedition, well I couldn't take it any longer.

But I get it, my dad has driven my Tesla and thinks it is great, but is still set on a Lexus Hybrid :) That is why I say she has to drive it for at least 2 weeks straight to really realize what it is. But don't be surprised when she then wants to still the car from you :)

burdogg | 19 december 2017

still - what was my brain thinking - that was steal - like take it from you :)

Carl Thompson | 19 december 2017

@Haggy:
"If I were to buy a new Model S today, I'd go for the 75D and not the 100."

Totally agree with that. But if the 100D were only $9k more and not $20k...

tom168 | 19 december 2017

Get the LR if you could afford it.

I have a 70D. I chose it over 85/85D in May, 2015. The difference in range is 30 to 40 miles. The $5K/$10K difference at the time for that range increase seemed not worth it. For the model 3, $9K gets 80+ miles, I think it is worth it. During the long trips I took with the 70D, there is very little difference in travel time had I bought the 85/85D. But, with a 100D, I would save may be one SC stop (about 30 minutes).

I am waiting for my turn to configure the LR Model 3 (hopefully in the next few weeks). I am also considering to upgrade my 70D to a 100D.

carlk | 19 december 2017

The long range would allow you to have a little easier time to make long trips but nothing it can do the base model couldn't. You decision should based on only if that little extra convenience is worth the cost to you.

burdogg | 19 december 2017

This is the age old debate that is super hard for everyone - especially those of us with one trying to tell someone else. The last thing I want to do is convince you to get the short range and then you regret it.

So again though - if you can swing it, the extra range will not disappoint. But if you are stretching already, it sounds like the short range should suffice :)

PhillyGal | 19 december 2017

Do NOT let your wife buy a Mercedes before she drives your Tesla a bit. There are a lot of us who ended up with 2.

In my case, "is there anything you don't like about your Model S?"
"Just having one."

Bluesday Afternoon | 19 december 2017

$7,500 Federal Tax Credit. Does that help in the decision process? How about getting the car soon-er? ;-)

TeslaTap.com | 19 december 2017

@PhillyGal - Best laugh of the day!

@Glwkb8 - My first S was a S60, with 210 miles of range (less than the base M3). Never had a problem with it in 4 years, and at least 4 long trips per year. I'm in California, so I don't get a lot of cold weather, and we have Superchargers everywhere. Now for my 2nd S, I got the 75, as it wasn't much more expensive and it allows us to skip some Superchargers on a long trip, saving a few minutes.

The main reason to go from 60 to 75 was my partner - she was super range concerned, even though we never ran close to a problem. Some people like to worry, and the S75 was less of a worry for her. I suspect you'll be fine with the standard battery, especially if you're on a tight budget. Good luck with whatever you choose!

burdogg | 19 december 2017

@PhillyGal - I remember reading up on Tesla as I waited for my first one to be delivered, and it was a comment from a neighbor, saying, they must be good cars, because my neighbor used to only have one, and now there are two sitting in the driveway :)

I thought, man, for the cost, I am lucky to get my wife to let me have one - I don't see any way I can get a second :)

Well, two are now in our garage, and I have been able to (thanks to tax credits - fed and CO) convince my wife to complete the S3X in the garage - yes op - it is that good.

Bluesday Afternoon | 19 december 2017

@burdogg

So many thoughts running through my brain. Oh, I do wish I could say them but probably better left unsaid! 8-)

burdogg | 19 december 2017

Yeah, sorry, kind of left that last sentence out there to the imagination. :)

nwfan | 20 december 2017

I've upgraded my S to 100D. I was able to afford the upgrade and it meets my
needs. Few gaps in the supercharger grid heading west out of TX have caused some range anxiety.
But for now on my trips west I can make Childress without range anxiety or having to add
extra 1 hr due to reroutes. With the 100D no longer have the panic and can drive the way I like.

I will mention though. I hate business travel and ending up at an airport with only rental option ICE.
I have to relearn driving. Stop at lights and traffic. Hit the gas and nothing happens. The delay is frightening. Where's the launch mode? Or if you hit the gas too hard your tires spin. Traction control in an ICE rental?
Release the gas pedal expecting slow down and having to slam on the brakes. I'm spoiled. Do not miss the noise, vibration/shaking and smell. And who likes gas smell on hands?
When driving ICE I miss the supercharger stops. I enjoy the chance to
discuss EV and solar. Enjoy talking about SpaceX and the future. Have a meal with new friends. I don't ever remember stopping at a gas station and having a social moment. I enjoy hearing other folks talking about there S or X. And finally. In rush hour traffic. AP eases the stress out of stop and go. Leave the driving to Tesla. Finally AP 2.x has arrived.

For my 2 cents, I agree with @PG don't go ICE. M3, S or X are within reach.

PhillyGal | 20 december 2017

Repeat purchases are about the best praise the consumer of any product can give to a product or service.

There's absolutely no coincidence that some 96% of Tesla customers would buy again... and a huge chunk do.

PhillyGal | 20 december 2017

*Correction - 90-something since I can't find the source of that statistic.

burdogg | 20 december 2017

It was 96% at first according to Consumer Reports - that is where it came from. It then dropped after the X came out initially and don't remember where to, somewhere around 93 if I remember - but still according to CR, was still at the top. Not that I promote what CR says or trust a word they say - just giving you PhillyGal the source :)

Glwkb8 | 20 december 2017

See this why I like the Tesla community. Everyone has been so happy and goofy at the same time. Trust every time she brings up that Mercedes I say you're going to get a Tesla so stop playing lol. Thank you for the insight though. I'm sure I'm literally going to make this decision whenever I get the configuration email and go with my gut. I know she would want me to go with the standard to stay in budget, but she doesn't think about all other stuff like travel time and stupercharger speed etc. In the end I know no matter which one I get I will still love the car. I've never kept a car longer then 5 yrs and never experienced not having a car payment so I'm hoping this could potentially be the first car I keep long term.

The bad thing is that I consider autopilot a must when I know its not a must. I could easily get the long range without autopilot or standard with it, but I feel like after experiencing autopilot it would be hard to not have it at all until later if I activated it down the road.

KP in NPT | 20 december 2017

If you frequently travel on highways, EAP is a must. I wouldn't have a Tesla without autopilot. :)

YOLO

rrmtg | 20 december 2017

I have S75D and X100D it is very rare for me to drive over 120 miles in a day. If you are planning a long trip people seem to enjoy the Tesla way, planning it out making friends at the super charger etc. In either case the battery concerns vanish once you have the car. My daughter is getting a M3 and she is getting the small battery- either way you go you will love your Tesla!

Glwkb8 | 20 december 2017

Okay after taking it all in I think my decision will be to wait for the standard battery as long as it doesn't take too long to be available. This is my first Tesla so this will give me a opportunity to test the 220 miles and see if that is efficient for me and if not I'll trade it in later and get a new vehicle or convince my girl to not get a Mercedes and get a higher ranged version next time. This way I can still get autopilot, she'll be happier with the smaller payment for now and I'll be saving more money in the long run. My daily commute is about 40 miles and I take a road trip maybe once ever 2 months or so I think it would work for me. Plus I see many S85s, Leafs, and I3s around here and they manage so im sure ill be good.

Of course this decision may change if I get a test drive an feel the acceleration but I think this is the smart decision right now. You all are awesome though and SimplyRed I can't wait for you to get your car so you can tell us about it.

Glwkb8 | 20 december 2017

Now if I move Cali my commute will be about 140 a day but I still think it would be okay since its more chargers there.

Haggy | 20 december 2017

The 96% (or higher) was for the Model S when it was the only model. Initial figures for the Model X were lower, bringing the average down. But there were no statistics on a model by model basis. That still leaves Tesla with the most satisfied customers, and I'd think that if you could see statistics for the Model S alone, it would still be close to 96%. With the Model X, the numbers included the early experiences with the falcon wing doors before Tesla worked out the glitches with them, assuming Tesla has gotten those under control. I don't follow the Model X closely.

I expect satisfaction for the Model 3 to be closer to that for the Model S. We won't see people upset by bad door handles, as the Model S had with some early vehicles. There are fewer things to go wrong, less likelihood of a leaky sunroof, or problems with other things that don't exist.

If anything, the Model 3 might have fewer problems than the very first Model S, but it remains to be seen how Tesla deals with it given the higher volume of customers. Some things have already changed, but not necessarily in a way that really hurts things. For example, it used to be that if you went for service in Fremont, you'd park, go inside and have coffee, and sit down at a desk with a service advisor. These days, you'd drive up in the lane for cars being serviced, and will be met by somebody who takes care of you. It still leaves it steps above going inside and waiting in a line of people to speak to somebody behind a kiosk or window who is going to hand you papers to sign, after asking you the same things you just told somebody on the phone, and nobody will send you to a room to wait for an overcrowded shuttle. Nobody is going to give you a loaner and then remind you to return it with a full tank of gas.

PhillyGal | 20 december 2017

@burdogg & Haggy - Thanks for having a much better memory than I :)

@Glwkb8 - Sounds like a good decision. My biggest beef right now is that Tesla still can't/won't tell us when the shorter range can be expected. When I get a configuration invite, I'd really like to know. Spending the extra cash for the long range (that I don't need) might be worth it to me if the short range will be 6 months later. 6 weeks? Probably not. But how will I know? Ugh, I need to get off the juice.... I'm becoming obsessed.

Glwkb8 | 20 december 2017

@PhillyGal, Yea I really want the white interior so I really would like some insight from them on that. I'm assuming that and the standard battery will release sometime in the 1Q and with how much I'm paying for this car I definitely want the options I desire. Can't wait to get Pearl White with my white interior :)

Carl Thompson | 20 december 2017

I think for sure because of it relative simplicity and because of Tesla's greater experience now that the Model 3 will be at least at the same quality level as the Model S. And it would surprise me if the Model 3 doesn't end up being _more_ reliable and have fewer defects.

But human psychology is strange. One strange phenomenon is that the more someone is invested in something (time, money, etc) the "better" they think it is. Essentially they are justifying their investment by making that thing better in their mind. (It's actually a little more complicated in that it's also about the person's self-image.)

What that means in real life is that people tend to think that more expensive things are "better." If you sell the same product to two groups of people one of which pays twice as much as the other the group that pays more will have a much higher opinion of the product. (Obviously that only works if the high paying group doesn't know they could have gotten it cheaper.) They'll be likely to overlook the product's shortcomings and focus on the product's strengths.

I expect that the Model 3 will prove to be Tesla's highest quality product yet. But because it is cheaper and will be sold to more people who are not as emotionally invested in EVs in general as most current owners I won't be at all surprised if Tesla's overall customer satisfaction goes _down_ slightly at the same time. It wouldn't be because there's anything wrong with the Model 3 or because Tesla is doing anything wrong. It would simply be because of human psychology.

dsvick | 20 december 2017

@PG, tell me about it. I recently decided to wait for SR and dual motors. Of course, when I get my invite I'll be dying to know when and how much for the dual motors....

TeslaTap.com | 20 december 2017

Well with 500 bottles of whiteout - you can change that black interior to white :)

Black is my last choice for an interior color. Even though I can configure it today - I'll wait for another color choice - gray, tan, white or cream.

borodinj | 20 december 2017

To the OP, I don't think you can go wrong either way given how pervasive superchargers are now, but for me, the fact that price difference for the bigger battery is relatively modest combined with the fact that the bigger battery will make for a faster car, I'd go with the bigger battery.

Personally, I'm holding out for the D with the big battery.

Note, I had an S and now have an X. You will never regret the decision to buy a Tesla, but as with TV's, you might regret not going for the bigger size (battery).

Glwkb8 | 20 december 2017

@borodinj hmm thanks. Definitely makes since. Guess it will depend on how much this white interior cost. It if I can afford the LR I’d definitely go for it and maybe hold of on EAP until later.

Garyeop | 20 december 2017

It depends on my choices before the $7,500 tax credit runs out. I am scheduled for April -June delivery.

If US car sale # 200k happens in Q1 2018, probably $49k long range. Makes no sense to pay $35k for minimum Model 3 when tax credit for me makes long range and other upgrades only $7k more.

If #200k is in Q2 2018, then I may wait and see what other options are available in Q3 2018. I would not mind short range w some options if available by then.

cquail | 21 december 2017

My reasons for choosing long range battery for Model 3.

I travel in areas where Superchargers are not plentiful.
Cold weather reduces range so a bigger battery is a comfort.
When driving on the low end of the battery, supercharging rates are faster.
Some battery degradation will happen. A bigger battery reduces the concern.
$7500 tax credit pays for a big percent of the larger battery.

Today on our S85D we will join the 100K mile club. Full charge when new was 270 miles. Full charge now is 258 miles. After almost 3 years I still have 95 percent of battery available.

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