Problem may be UAW but then again an automated factory requires a different type of employee.
Perhaps they could make the Semi or Pickup there.
Elon said they will consider it.
Unlikely. GM would not want to give Tesla a chance to look great at GMs expense.
An Ohio plant would just add significant logistics complexity. Hence Model Y and Semi, which will use Model 3 parts, should be lined up with existing logistics streams.
Also GF1 is a good candidate as it is already designed for Modular growth, hence expedites ROI on CAPEX.
My guess is that Lathorp will be Tesla's new logistics Hub, supplying parts to Sparks (Model Y & Semi) and Fremont (Model 3, S&X).
Trucks returning from Spark will haul batteries and drive units to Fremont, this setup should optimise truck utilisation quite nicely.
With the governor John Kasich asking Elon there might be some use not yet considered.
"Unlikely. GM would not want to give Tesla a chance to look great at GMs expense."
Either way Tesla already looked great by offering to consider it.
They already plan on making cars at the Gigafactory. Raw materials in one end, a completed car out the others. An existing factory has to be retrofitted, then packs/DUs have to be shipped to OH, then of course there will be the outright fight with the UAW. Which if/when they do put up a fight about Tesla taking over, that would show their true colors and that is they are only interested in thier own jobs, not those of the factory workers that need the jobs.
Wouldn't Tesla just lease or purchase the facility outright and then re-hire people as new non-union employees? Why would the union have any say at all?
Ohio is a strong union state. For the sake of discussion only, if Tesla were to take over the facility and it started operating as non-union, there would soon be an organizing effort that you likely be successful.
Except any effort could only be successful if the employees were somehow dissatisfied with their new jobs, working conditions, etc. That doesn't seem to be the case at Tesla.
I know I would take a Tesla job with stock options over paying some UAW fatcats dues to keep up their lavish lifestyle.
In Ohio it would need to be a Union factory. Tesla may consider this - the work force is well trained and available - but my guess is it will not work out. Sad to say.
well trained ha ha. yeah thats why everyone was buying GM cars.
Perhaps Unions are being challenged and may lose some of their influence.
I would say the assembly workers were adept at their jobs and wouldn't put GM's problems on them. They'd do extremely well assembling Teslas. Like Mike said, it would be a step up for them.
@Madatgascar - Why would it "need" to be a union factory in Ohio?
California is an union (no right to work law) state too but union is not that popular other than those that have already existed for a long time. One reason is CA has very extensive labor and safety laws the need is just not there. When Tesla took the NUMMI plant it interviewed workers from the general public. Not a lot of old UAW workers were rehired. In theory Tesla could do the same in Ohio. Incidentally UAW did not even try to help those workers to get job in the new plant. It was pretty powerless.
GM quality is infamously bad. plants like NUMMI showed that with a culture change the line workers could do better, but the labor dynamics are terrible.
GM cars are terrible too, not just because of the union.
I agree that it was nice of Musk to 'consider' purchasing GM's Ohio factory, but I wouldn't touch anything GM, even with someone else's 10' pole because (beyond the other reasons I've outlined, in detail, previously) it is quite obvious that GM doesn't want anything to do with EV's.
Case in point, consider the EV-1 fiasco of days gone by and GM has recently been seen to make moves to discontinue its European line of actual EV's in the form of their Opel Ampera-E (that has a 238 mi. range and a starting price of $36,620) apparently because of the increased demand for them!
Here's a video covering the situation:
So I wouldn't purchase their closed factory because I wouldn't want to offer GM any sort of a financial windfall (they've gotten enough handouts already) and they might somehow sabotage the place to prevent V's from being made their because if they'e not trying to kill off their customer base with deliberately rigged ignition switches, they're refusing to acknowledge the changing commuter market and its increased desire for EV's.
At this point my position is that the only good GM is a dead GM, sorry to say (well, not really).
@TabascoGuy, it’s not so much a legal issue as an Ohio realpolitik issue. Taking that plant non-Union would be a war.
Madatgascar, so those workers would put the UAW ahead of getting a full paycheck........? Obviously the UAW isn't going to/can't save their jobs, why would they continue to support them?
They would make them miserable, treat them like scabs. They have friends and neighbors and social relationships to think about. Some would connive with the Union to allege bad conditions under Tesla. It would not be as easy as in California.
I think this was inferred to further above but was the NUMMI plant union when GM was operating it? Also, seems I read Tesla purchased that facility for pennies (or dimes) on the dollar so taking over the Ohio plant in the same manner wouldn't benefit GM much, if at all.
As long as AI does not unionize the Robots it could work. ;-)
From the article Mike linked above "Around 12.5 percent of Ohio employees are unionized". I wouldn't worry too much about my friends and neighbors being part of that small slice.
Neither GM nor UAW took Tesla very seriously when Tesla bought NUMMI. Things have changed. GM won’t sell the plant to Tesla for pennies on the dollar, and UAW won’t roll over in what would be a highly symbolic loss too close to its heart. Tesla should explore it, but I’m guessing Ohio politically can’t make the kind of sweetheart deal that other states can, and even if they did, there would be a battle royals with the UAW. Just guessing.
Makes sense, I just feel bad for those that will be out of work. You know GM's upper management won't feel the pinch, at least not immediately.
And nor will the UAW leadership. They keep thier full paychecks while their members stand outside in the cold on the picket line, getting a stipen in lieu of thier full paycheck.
Tesla didn’t purchase It’s factory from GM. According to H McKenzie’s book “insane mode”
Quote “Toyota originally wanted more than $100 million for the five million square foot facility, which it had run with GM under the auspices of New United Motor Manufacturing, inc. (NUMMI), but Tesla offered only $42 million. After a breakfast at Musk’s house in Bel Air, Toyota CEO Akio Toyota told his company to accept the offer”
It would be interesting to know if the production equipment in place is modern and useable. If not, then it would have to be purchased as a building, not a factory.
My thoughts are generally the same as MadAt's. Ohio isn't California, Ohio is the industrial midwest.
I would rather Tesla build out Gigafactory 1, work with the Nevada govt to increase the availability of housing in the Reno/Sparks area, and advertise for workers in Ohio and elsewhere to relocate to Nevada.
As I'm reading those sad stories of Lordstown workers again I can't help but thinking GM would be very unlikely to abandon them, and others would be glad to take over if that do happen, should they have proved themselves as competitive workers instead of relied on the union to keep their jobs and benefits. That's just what people need to do in this day and age.
Other OEMs are cutting production as well at their respective factories, so Ford for example isn't going to come in and spend the money needed to retrofit it to build their products.
If Tesla bought Ford (for 60ish billion), they would get about 86 working factories, which they could gradually work through.
....and the F150 brand. Invaluable.
I would greatly prefer Tesla not pick up Fix Or Replace Daily (or Found On Road Dead).
"If Tesla bought Ford (for 60ish billion), they would get about 86 working factories, which they could gradually work through."
What would Tesla do with 86 factories between now and whenever? Idle buildings incur expenses if they're not going to be allowed to deteriorate, they cost money to own not just to buy.
It wont accept here, but google up
Elon will want the F150 brand only if he believes his pickup will not be compelling enough to stand on its own. I'm sure Elon will not make a pickup unless if he's certain he got something to make the F150 irrelevant.
But from what has been mooted, only a mother could love the Tesla pickup.
@rxlawdude - I agree, but Tesla would probably get the rights to use "Model E". ;-)
Forget the F150 name. Just have Tesla keep spelling out their vehicle models with better options than their competitors.
Speaking of the Tesla pick up truck, any theories on what it would be called? Certainly can't call it the Model T.
Based on the pickup truck owners I know and observe, pickup owners in general aren't the EV type. The prefer loud and obnoxious, and in many cases beat to sh|t. Ford F150 drivers will not be buying a Tesla pickup.
why would Tesla WANT the F150 brand? oversized, overpowered ICE machines arent consistent with Tesla's misson.
Elon was just teasing them, in my opinion! I see no reason for Tesla to buy GM's plants, given GM's anti-EV stance for decades. GM could have been the leader in the EV market, but they CHOSE not to!
Speaking of union -vs- non union.
Elon being the visionary that he is, what if he created a “employee’s Union”.
Meaning that the employees run their own union within the plant.
Employees are the best to know because they are there, they see, they expierance.
I assume UAW is required to stand behind its members irregardless of their work ethic, on the other hand, in an employee run group (union) hard working employees will not “stand up” for those that are lazy and snowflaky. Work hard, be part of the team or go work somewhere else.
An employee run group(union) May be more sensitive to an employee who is a hard worker, dedicated, but would do better if they would be moved over to fender assembly(just an example).
Maybe Elon can completely transition a new way of “Union thinking”.
A lot of high ranking Union officials would be pretty pissed off. They’d be out of a job.
"Elon being the visionary that he is, what if he created a “employee’s Union”.
Meaning that the employees run their own union within the plant."
My thought is that I see a conflict of interest in this.