Well, that didn't take long.
Time to buy. All these after purchase sales should really pumps up that bottom line for the quarter.
"I've never seen such level-headed, disciplined leadership from a CEO", said nobody.
Haha nobody gives a sh*t what you think.
Honestly, pricing was fine the way it was, but it seems they were trying to adjust everything so they seemed more affordable overall. This definitely sounds like a "This is why we can't have nice things" maneuver. I don't blame them.
It is/was imho a quick way to inject some cash into the pipeline. We must remember that this is a paradigm-changing company operating in an industry where change is not only feared but discouraged. When we bought our cars, we bought into the idea of change. I am satisfied with my car and don’t care about price changes. Y eyes are in front of me and my ass behind me...move forward! The important take away here is that the 35k promise is being kept. Believe it or not, we are early adopters and that brings with it uncertainty. I, for one, would like to see Tesla survive (not just because I have skin in the game now) because it’s the right thing for the planet! It also feels nice to pollute the air (at a lesser rate) with American coal rather than Arab oil!
Do you guys think that those of us who have ordered a vehicle, who were promised free full self driving, still get free full self driving since they are changing prices back? I ordered right before the news dropped, so I was told since I couldn't get the new pricing I was getting free FSD since I had ordered EAP.
The optics would've been better if this was just put out as a one time "flash sale", limited time only. It turned out to be just that, and it definitely pulled a demand lever. But all the back-and-forth seemed pretty amateurish, and will be criticized as such.
The bigger picture is this: wouldn't all OEMs (auto and other) love to be able to adjust pricing so quickly? This agility and ability to move pricing back, (even if it was a "mistake" in the first place) is impressive to be able to carry out.
Now....I have 5 days to decide whether to get FSD for $2k or not......
I want to get some clarification before I jump into make my purchase for FSD. I took my vehicle (M3) on Feb 12th with EAP options, there are several discussions about this I want to see if will get FSD for free? Right now in my account, I saw $2,000 for FSD purchase option. Thanks
"lower price shouldn’t have been offered. Was done so because some simply couldn’t afford it." EM
The prices are being raised back for those of us that can afford it. Now, I have to decide whether to pay 2k for features that are still not available. Is it worth it to recognize lights and signs? No way would I use it to navigate around busy city streets.
Where do I go in my account to add FSD? I've been looking all over and can't find it. Thanks.
@tripplett, after you log in to the website, click into Manage, and at the bottom you should see a section that says Autopilot Upgrades.
All those people who purchased premium edition for $49k and up and couldn't afford EAP or FSD so got both for 5k.
I thought I had seen this in the past but I didn't scroll past all the Learn videos. Thanks.
Now to decide if I pull the trigger on $2k before it goes up.
I believe all the people who said Tesla told them 2.5 HW is FSD ready - at least with what they release in the next 12 months.
My guess is that HW 2 people will get new HW 3 computer but HW 2.5 people won't - they will just get the new software abilities. If Tesla can't get FSD to work smoothly on 2.5 THEN they get HW 3. Just my opinion on what I've read and past experiences seeing how Tesla rolls out things. That way they address the worst ones (HW 2) who paid for FSD first.
Oh the decisions decisions....
@tripplett, here's an ARK Invest podcast link from Feb 19th, 2019 with Elon Musk. Around the 17:20 mark, he mentions that anyone who's ordered FSD gets the AI computer (HW3 computer) for free. There were no other qualifiers mentioned (i.e. HW 2 vs 2.5, etc.). Perhaps a reason for this is how he explains it's likely possible to achieve FSD with the Nvidia computer using software tricks such as cropping the video, adjusting resolution, and performing other compute "tricks." However, the safety achieved would be 50-100% safer than a human driver. Whereas, the HW3 computer running at full resolution on all cameras along with frame rates and processing far in excess of the Nvidia computer can be 1,000% safer than a human. That's a HUGE difference and would constitute an entirely separate FSD "product" class from FSD running on the soon-to-be-outdated Nvidia computers.
I’m losing track with all the price shifting. For those who have been benefiting from the discount and can get basic AP for $2k and FSD for $3k right now, what will those prices change to on Monday? I believe the old buy after for FSD was $5k, but with the splitting off of EAP, it’s unclear if that changes things.
"In retrospect, lower price shouldn’t have been offered. Was done so because some simply couldn’t afford it. Prices revert to normal on Monday.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 12, 2019"
Oh, I see! I was charged more money because I could "afford it!" Thanks for clarifying that, Elon Musk.
It's called a CAR LOAN, okay? My family is still paying for EAP and FSD, and we will be for another 3 years!
Well, at least Musk, and Tesla, are making their price discrimination perfectly clear and transparent: they really did intentionally charge early adopters more for this feature, because they assumed that they could "afford it" versus other customers who they assumed could NOT "afford it."
If there is any doubt in anyone's mind how Tesla treats customers who put their faith in the company and put their money where their mouth is, now you know: you are "cash cows", and Tesla fully intends to milk you for every spare penny, and not even thank you for the extra cream. And that included me...until today.
If this is true, then it is like a two week sale on the software. Telsa is doing what other companies do, lower prices to increase sales and then go back up after they meet their goal
"If this is true, then it is like a two week sale on the software. Telsa is doing what other companies do, lower prices to increase sales and then go back up after they meet their goal"
And then call it a mistake? lol
@Voltaire Thanks. Good podcast too!
The logic for increasing the software price really contradicts Elon's stated concern for peoples safety not using the autopilot software..
The LR RWD was 49K, dropped to 43K now anticipated to raise up to 44K. Seems to me they couldve kept the software prices lower and still had some discount to offer on the cost of the car.
Since basic AP didn’t exist prior to the price drop, it’s not clear what they’ll charge for that. Or are they going back to the old EAP/FSD options? I assume Tesla will update their blog post about AP/FSD upgrades to clarify this, the sooner the better.
I am still confused what the prices would be on 3.18. I am planning to order LR RWD M3 on saturday 3.16 when the price for AP would be $3000 and FSD be $5000. If I don't get AP/FSD on 3.16 what would be the price post 3/18?
@EVRider preferably before Monday. I think most are assuming it'll go back to post delivery prices on the new software structure, so 4k for AP and 6k for FSD?
@EVRider Sorry, FSD post delivery price is stated as 7K on the website.
So if we purchased our car last year with EAP, we can add FSD now for $2k, or after 3/18 for $6k-$7k?
I'm not sure when you guys bought your M3, but when I got my car (August '18) EAP was 5k and FSD was 3k if purchased with car, and they were 6k / 4k if purchased after. I believe both were kicked up 1k sometime after I purchased, but my understanding is that if I opt to purchase it at any time, 4k is all I will pay (unless, of course, I buy for 2k before Monday).
People buying a $35k vehicle without autopilot for now will be able to afford $11k upgrade to FSD post delivery?
@Michael. My understanding also. Question is purchase FSD now for 2k or wait and see how features work later and pay more. Do I pay for something that doesn't exist without trial?
I'd like to see what the prices will be for all the possible configurations: those who didn't buy either EAP and FSD, those who bought EAP, those who bought AP, etc. I bought EAP for 5k last July and wonder what the FSD price will. be. It should be cheaper for EAP vs AP buyers since we already have most of what FSD now contains. Tesla, please put out some definitive prices.
This is so stupid! All because people feel put out - that dropping the price should NEVER happen...the Others shouldn't benefit from a PRICE DROP....now they others in the future can't benefit from a fantastic drivers aid that can keep our roads SAFER.
I am sorry - Autopilot should have always been $3,000. That is what it was before all this FSD crap. It started at $2500 and they bumped it to $3,000 - all before the model 3 ever came out. Then in Oct 2016 - they said hey look - we have this new "enhanced" (whatever) autopilot and can now charge $5,000! Oh, and $3,000 more for FSD that doesn't exist (and may never).
All the while - Tesla full well KNEW that the Model 3 was coming and was the lower end car. People honestly cannot afford the extra $5,000 for that. They screwed up back then and recognize it now. So they readjust the pricing back to where it should have been - $3,000 for a basic Autopilot, and $5,000 to get the "enhanced" stuff PLUS FSD when that comes out.
BUT noooooo - the FAIR police cry foul and can't let all the future years of buyers benefit from the correct pricing.
Priceless people - just priceless...because you feel unfairly treated, everyone else should also get screwed over (and for the record - yes I DID purchase EAP AND FSD back in Dec 2016!!)
I bought the FSD for $2k yesterday. Took delivery of my car March 21, 2018. Best car I've ever owned. Love every bit of it. Particularly love the EAP (freeway commuting in LA) and software updates. So I felt it was a good value that for an extra $2k I will continue to get new features and upgrades for my car. End of story.
In December. EAP was $5,000 pre-delivery (I think $7,000 post delivery?) and FSD was another $5,000 post delivery. You couldn't directly order FSD pre-delivery (it was $3,000 when you could), but some of us were able to get it for that price.
If you have EAP now, it's a safe bet the $2,000 FSD upgrade will be more expensive next week.
I purchased the AutoPilot for $2k this week. It's far from 100% dependable. Shadow breaking is still an issue and its dangerous. Couple shadow breaking with lane changes and FSD, it's downright scary. I am going to hit the pause button and not upgrade to FSD now. It's simply not ready.
I am getting delivery of a Mid range Model 3 this week and I have to pay 8k for AP and FSD. I don't see why should be should be labeled as a "Flash Sale" or "Easter Sale" when new buyers can't take advantage of it. The lower price for AP and FSD was strictly for owners who bought before the large price drop of the Model 3 and Elon Musk wanted to compensate those people in some way so they don't feel their car's value dropped too hard.
@rajivrag yes FSD is not ready, but I’d you wait until it’s ready you will pay more. Think of it as a reservation at discount, you are locking the price.
Personally I am happy I bought FSD last week so I don’t have to stress over when to buy :) that alone is worth money.
@rajivrag What is shadow breaking?
Performance of these systems during development is not a straight line. Do not assume that the rates of phantom breaking or other flaws will decrease gradually before new capabilities are introduced. For one thing, FSD will require their new neural network computer with 10x the performance of the current Nvidia-based system.
@Teslanene There's a separate thread if you want to learn more. https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/shadow-braking-during-autopilot-st...
Shadow or phantom braking is where the car suddenly brakes for no reason the driver can see. Sometimes the strong shadows under an overpass on a sunny day can cause it. Sometimes the GPS database gets the speed limit wrong. Or it thinks another car is is a danger, but it’s in another lane.
I currently have EAP, but the new FSD only offer those two major function, not sure if I will pull the trigger.
Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs. (highway has none of those)
Automatic driving on city streets. (I will probably not using this function at all)
@johnse You do make a valid point. On the other hand, I can argue that none of these features is bullet proof and we are actually real world Beta Testers risking our lives to help Tesla. They better give us a discount for that. But is saving 3k worth it though? Some of these are fixable, and some cannot be fixed forever. The consequence of a bug here is much higher than what we experience with our phones and computers.
I'm not a gigantic fan of all this mind-changing. I do like a good "we made a mistake" admission from any company or individual in general but I wish Tesla hadn't jumped the gun and lowered to a level they could not support.
Offering a $35k version; and maybe a $38-39k version would have been enough of a change for one quarter.
@teddy.tseng incorrect, highways can have stop signs and stop lights. Freeways cannot.
Stop signs and stop lights will never work 100% of the time. How many times have we been blinded by the sun, how many times have stop lights stopped working, stop lights can be vandalized or broken during storms etc. How many times have other drivers at intersection not given you the right of the way...
@alphacompton - You are missing the difference we are talking about - it is the actual AP that changed - It is not to me about the discount some owners can get right now. It is this:
They flipped the pricing - ie - if YOU had chosen NOT to get FSD - then you would only have to pay $3,000 for autopilot. It used to be $5,000 for Autopilot, then another $3,000 for FSD - to make $8,000.
Then they went back to the original Autopilot price - $3,000 and made the FSD purchase $5,000 - hence why you paid $8,000 still.
But because of all the "its not fair, and by golly, just not RIGHT!" people out there - Tesla is now reverting back to the old charge - $5,000 for EAP, and $3,000 for FSD (Unless I am missing something here - that is how I understand it).
So at $5,000 - there are MANY out there that can't afford that and pass on autopilot. Yet you drop that to $3,000 - and there are many that feel they can stretch to get that for what is offered.
That is the problem here. Ultimately anyone that wants to purchase FSD - the pricing structure doesn't matter - it is $8,000 either way. It purely is the Autopilot issue and the whiners won and now are forcing everyone to pay the $5,000 because by golly - it just isn't fair that they paid $5,000 and now someone can get it for $3,000 (and by the way, it wasn't the same features set - so it is not apples to apples comparison)
Worst part of this announcement is that it guarantees several more weeks of forum turmoil. People who previously purchased want the future pricing (if cheaper) or package upgrades, people buying now want the price locked in to only go down so they can defer the purchase, and now we will get to add the new purchasers who buy after the price goes up that will want the current cheaper pricing.
On a serious note, I do wonder if there is much more improvements planned for the Drive On Navigate or at least it can't be enough to require HW3.0 as it must work on early EAP only vehicles. I.e it won't use all the cameras which seems like it could be helpful.
W T F !
@Burdogg - can't believe the people who have been complaining that others got a better deal. They don't care whether they got a great car at a great price, just don't want anyone else to get a better price.
@Phillygal - EAP/FSD discounted price is totally something Tesla CAN support - they are walking back because of all the EAP/FSD buyers who kept calling UNFAIR and wanted a refund. Tesla can't give a refund so made it FAIR by raising prices for everyone.
(And I paid $ 5K for EAP and will pay $ 2K more for FSD. Not because I have $ 2K to burn but because I will be getting something I value and $ 2K is a fair price to pay for it. I have zero problems with others getting EAP+FSD for $ 5K)
It sounds like you are blaming customers for the pricing mistakes you admit Tesla has made over the years!
I don't think it's the fault of customers expecting Tesla to protect the value of their cars after purchase the same as every other manufacturer. Tesla itself has been the very best at protecting owners' value in the past and it was it was a mistake to essentially tell customers we don't care about you _now_. This is why it's important for manufacturers to get pricing right from the beginning and have clear price and feature delineation between trim levels.
This whole thing makes me think the way traditional manufactures sell cars isn't so broken after all.