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Is Tesla losing credibility?

Is Tesla losing credibility?

Don’t get me wrong. I love what Elon Musk is doing to change the world. Transitioning to sustainable transport, etc... Read his book, would never work for him but I admire what he is doing with the limited ressources he managed to self achieve.

However, he knows that he had reservations for over 400,000 Model 3 and when he announced the SR 2-4 weeks and SR+ < 2 weeks delivery March 1st 2019 and planned the announce of the Model Y on March 14th. Was this a marketing technique to get as much Model 3 deposits converted to configurations possible? I know that the Secret Master Plan has been the goal of Tesla since 2006 and they have been transparent on this since the beginning but why are they not on the time estimates?

We are at a point where Tesla should be autocorrecting the word weeks by the word months of their website. Personally, I can accept that they have repeated delays because I believe in the cause but I have plenty of coworkers who are buying and reserving other brands because of their known reputations they built over time and plan to get the Taycan instead of the X/Y for example.

Am I the only optimistic guy seeing a repetitive trend here? Or am I getting slowly pessimistic without realizing it?

ajbutler45 | 4 april 2019

@EVolution I thought SR+ cars are being delivered? I know originally SR delivery time of 2 to 4 was over optimistic, but now I think the site says 6 to 8 weeks? Will be interesting to see if with the start in the new quarter SR versions start getting delivered. Surprised that people are deciding on the Taycan over the S/X because of delivery concerns? Is there even a delivery date on the Taycan? The Taycan looks like a good car. I would think people are waiting for the Taycan because they prefer it's style or the Porsche name brand over Tesla. Volkswagen group seems to be doing more then most car companies pushing EV development, but they do tend to introduce a lot of prototypes and production promises that they have had a hard time delivering too.

MarcVG | 4 april 2019

As far as I can tell, the time estimates for delivery are pretty much on point. For our Model 3, the delivery target was February-March, we reveived it on February 15th. A friend of us ordered his Model 3, got a 4 week delivery target and he received his after exactly 4 weeks. Another person I know of would have gotten his Model 3 on same week as me, but he ordered 19" sport wheels, and those came from another production batch, so his got delayed by 2 weeks. As you can see, some exceptions will always occur.

Losing credibility? Nah...

apodbdrs | 4 april 2019

Is it credibility, or is it everyone piles up on TESLA on everything that remotely doesn't pan out. How many other companies and ads have come out on EVs that have yet to even hit the road, yet there is no negative story. It appears as if there is only one company, TESLA who bears the brunt of EV negative news, even if the issue happened three years ago or the IDIOT driver that disregards warnings or has never even read the Operators Manual. No stories of people that actually love and enjoy their TESLAs.

apodbdrs | 4 april 2019

Is it credibility, or is it everyone piles up on TESLA on everything that remotely doesn't pan out. How many other companies and ads have come out on EVs that have yet to even hit the road, yet there is no negative story. It appears as if there is only one company, TESLA who bears the brunt of EV negative news, even if the issue happened three years ago or the IDIOT driver that disregards warnings or has never even read the Operators Manual. No stories of people that actually love and enjoy their TESLAs.

jordanrichard | 4 april 2019

I don't think they still had 400,000 reservations on the books when they announced the $35K version. They clearly had been chipping away at that back log since 2017.

Joshan | 4 april 2019

98% of stats are made up 50% of the time by 32% of people.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 april 2019

The title of your thread says it all. You are a FUDster.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

EVolution: I have been in the 'I think electric cars would be better!' camp since I was six. It just seemed to make sense. Yes, even 45 years ago.

As a young child, I knew nothing about global socio-economic structures that formed the 'world view' of our leaders or most adults. Still, the Summer I turned eight, I saw a new show on television called 'Good Morning America' that introduced a new, high-tech car. I know now that was the Sebring-Vanguard CitiCar, a strangely shaped two-seat electric car.

I thought it was truly cool. I was certain it would be a big hit. But... I was also unaware of market conditions. Or that people bought cars for reasons that I was not concerned about. Or that the things I was concerned about meant absolutely nothing to adults. Heck, it was still nearly two decades before someone wrote the lyric, "Make big money, Drive big cars, Everybody knows me, It's like I'm a movie star!" Again, things I didn't care about, at all.

I always wanted to drive. So I became a 'car guy' early on. I knew that I liked pretty cars, just as I liked pretty girls. It just seemed the way things should be. The first car I ever drove, slowly, for a short distance, on top of a levee covered in loose gravel in rural Mississippi, was my Uncle George's circa 1972 Chevrolet El Camino SS. It was pure joy. I was twelve.

Still, it was another decade before I bought my first car. Surprise! It wasn't electric. The Sebring-Vanguard CitiCar was a thoroughly forgotten happenstance. The arguments of the day were primarily about reliability, fuel economy, and the viability of domestic cars as compared to foreign makes. Little was said about vehicle emissions at all.

I did several months of research, quite a bit of comparison and contrast and compromise, before I picked what was pretty close to the perfect car for me. Surprise! It wasn't a Chevrolet Corvette. There were no fully electric cars to choose from, so I made do with a Honda Accord EX Coupe.

It was a 'foreign' make, bit was manufactured in Marysville OH. Somehow, I had managed to completely overlook the Honda CR-X, which might have been just a bit 'more perfect' to me. Problem was, after visiting a Honda dealership in Beverly Hills, the only CR-X they had on display was one that unbeknown to me had been modified by the dealer to be a 2+2 configuration, including an itsy-bitsy, teensy weensy, little bitty, book-shelf sized back seat bench designed to accommodate double amputees who had subsequently been beheaded. I knew from my investigation of the Honda Prelude and Chevrolet Camaro that no form of 2+2 would do, and this was the smallest yet, despite its awesome exterior styling.

Had I learned early on that the CR-X was actually a two-seater, I probably would have bought it, even with the manual transmission. As it stood, I was looking for a Coupe, with a back seat that I could fit in, even if I were virtually sitting behind myself. I ended up looking at Midsize cars rather than Compact or Large. I liked the Thunderbird, but not its overall size or fuel economy. There was no Coupe version of the Taurus, Camry, or Maxima, so those were eliminated. The Acura Legend Coupe was stunningly beautiful to me, but well out of my price range. So ultimately I settled for my first choice, the Honda Accord Coupe. If I had waited a couple more years, I probably would have saved a few bucks by getting the Honda Civic Coupe instead. Oops?

Honda cars were not 'for everyone' but they were certainly designed with me in mind it seemed. Fuel efficient and fun to drive. That allowed me to remain mostly agnostic among other car guys. I could see that preferences varied and that in arguments about cars half the fun was in bragging. Generally, it didn't matter who 'won' an argument, someone else could 'win' another time and no one had to give up their position. Those who said "There's no replacement for diaplacement!" could be shut up the next week by someone with massive turbo boost, or the week after that by someone with a supercharger, or soon after that by someone with a NOS bottle to squeeze. And someone who proclaimed "Power to weight ratio reigns supreme!" could prove their point with a Honda, Mazda, or Porsche in the 'twisties' either at an SCCA event or on a mountaintop course. There were infinite means to apply one's philosophy, and it was good.

Then came the Tesla Model S, and for some, the light in their eyes went out and they were forced to shut up. No longer could the excuse, "You may get me 'off the line', but once I hit my passing gear..." do any good anymore. Because when someone lost 'off the line' they were beaten. Period.

All the arguments were ended. Calmly. Quietly. Consistently. With relative ease. It just wasn't fair. Years of tradition just thrown out the window. No grease, no smoke, no fire, no drama. No chance. Loss after loss was suffered on drag strips around the land. Suddenly, 1,320 feet of drag strip were no longer enough to prove your metal. Suddenly the 0-to-60 MPH metric, used for decades, became meaningless. Repeatedly, time and again, the ever-popular "Yeah, but can it do THIS?" goalposts were moved, further and further away. No one would admit defeat. There had to be 'a way'... And there never was. Sorry, not sorry. After decades of lies, it was time to face the truth.

Finally, electric cars were a viable alternative to birning stuff in combustion engines.

So, when after all this time people attempt to cast doubt over goals that are missed by days, weeks, or months...? As if that is important? Ad if that must be critically analyzed in depth? As if this is now 'THE END', or 'THE LAST STRAW'? A reason to throw in the towel and give up? Please, do pardon me, while I laugh a hearty belly laugh. Because I REMEMBER.

I REMEMBER all the years of delays, deferrments, distractions, discouragement, dismay, excuses, and more that happened BEFORE Tesla. Yes. There is a repeated trend going on here alright.

Hal Fisher | 4 april 2019

Most people are dopes while tesla does nothing to provide a reassuring image through commercials. Have you seen anything other than the constant news on Yahoo about tesla? Has tesla done anything to prove the safety, reliability, performance, and low cost of owning a tesla. Musk needs to climb out of his bubble and realize Americans don’t have time to put these pieces together themselves.

alexomid83 | 4 april 2019

I got my Standard Plus in less than 2 weeks when I ordered in Mid March.It actually got here much faster than I anticipated for me. The delivery experience could be improved though but I understand why it was the way it is. Demand is unreal right now. They moved my Thursday delivery to Saturday and then they told me after they missed my delivery time of 2pm that they were pushing it to Sunday and I told them I wouldn't be home Sunday. After a few calls back they told me it was actually being detailed and cleaned and it should be ready in two more hours but it ended up being 8:30pm, receiving the car in the dark which wasn't ideal. Delivery improvements seems to be something they can work on but I am very happy with the car. It is the best car I have ever owned and it's crazy how fast it is. I pass cars like they are standing still and I only have the standard plus! I can only imagine how fast the performance M3 is!

EVolution | 4 april 2019

@Magic 8 Ball
I don’t know in what world you do live or if you have any friends but I have dozens of people at work who come see me everyday who have been asking if I received my Model 3 that I put a deposit 3 years ago. I have been defending Tesla over and over for 3 years, so if you call me a FUDster, sir, I call you a MTFuster. Don’t post in that thread ever again.

@Red
I have also been waiting more than of my life to get an EV. Got my Driver’s license at 2003, was following the EV1 saga before it ended and then when they announced the Volt prototype to be available in 2011, I was so eager to get an electric car but when I learned how GM ended the electric car, I promised myself to never give my money to a company with an history of lobbying towards big oil like they did. Then, the only company that makes a positive difference in the world turned out to be Tesla since if you buy a Volt, they now can sell a Suburban because the average consumption respects the legislation. The only reasonable affordable car that you can buy that makes a positive difference in this World is a Model 3. I have been waiting more than half of my life for this car. So if you want to speak about absolute waiting time, you win this. But I can compete well on the relative waiting time.

@Hal
The pioneers, early adopters, environmentalist can all accept those delays or won’t be affected by the bad press. But once the early adopters segment is saturated, you need to convince the masses to embrace a lower range, smaller cargo-sized car. The ones that have to be convinced are the Suburban, Escalade, Mustang and Camaro drivers, who don’t give a sh1t about climate change. These are the ones that need to know that any Tesla is safer, more reliable, have cheaper cost of ownership. I keep explaining over and over again one by one but the marketing department has to do his job. Tesla’s Master plan is not enough, the mass need the “I have a dream” talk.

finman100 | 4 april 2019

because sales don't count. sarcasm.

why again would anyone need to advertise their product if sales are ongoing, increasing, and expanding. i wonder why crap products are shown in such great marketing light. indeed if your product sucks, advertise it. if the product is outstanding and desirable, word gets around. it always has.

Tesla will have to advertise when they are seeing less income. or their products become shit. or both.

Demand shows neither of these things happening in the Tesla world.

YMMV.

M3BlueGeorgia | 4 april 2019

@EVolution
So did you order a Model 3 and not yet have delivery yet? Not clear, but is implied.

Apart from the 7% higher price, not sure why anyone would go for the SR instead of the SR+, if they are in that side of the market.

Magic 8 Ball | 4 april 2019

@EVolution You must be popular if you have dozens of people coming by, every day, asking about your car. Do other people come by and want to talk about other things?

Rt002k | 4 april 2019

Honestly I think what happened is when they released the SR version, their current order load supported 2-4 weeks delivery. And then they lowered prices on everything and got a rush of those orders, pushing out the cheaper cars. Just look at the jump in deliveries from Jan/Feb to March on all 3 models. This wasn't the "end of quarter push" seen in the previous two quarters, it was a much bigger increase. Orders increased more than expected making them unable to meet the posted delivery estimate for all models simultaneously, so they pushed out the lowest margin ones to meet the estimate of the higher margin ones.

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

leo33 | 4 april 2019

EVolution's response to m8b suggests he's not an owner. Yet he can create threads. Did they loosen up the forum restrictions again?

spuzzz123 | 4 april 2019

I think they grant owner privileges to reservation holders

Carl Thompson | 4 april 2019

@finman100:
"Tesla will have to advertise when they are seeing less income. or their products become shit. or both. Demand shows neither of these things happening in the Tesla world."

You only need look at the disappointing 1Q numbers to know that Tesla needs to advertise. Now.

@leo33:
"EVolution's response to m8b suggests he's not an owner. Yet he can create threads. Did they loosen up the forum restrictions again?"

Despite the text at the top of the forum Tesla appears to be giving anyone that asks access even non-owners. I've read comments where multiple non-owners have said that received access.

dsvick | 4 april 2019

@Carl Thompson - "You only need look at the disappointing 1Q numbers to know that Tesla needs to advertise. Now."

One quarter does not indicate a trend or need for advertising. If this continues for another quarter then, yes, there may be cause for some sort of action to increase sales, until then though all we know, looking in from the outside, are the bare numbers that have been reported. I'm sure there are people at Tesla who know exactly what current demand is like and will take appropriate action when needed.

jefjes | 4 april 2019

No

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

Hal Fisher: When has a car commercial ever really moved you to consider a brand for purchase? Me? I'm inclined to respond, "Never." Though, in hindsight, I really enjoyed the voiceovers from Burguess Meredith for Honda commercials, and those from James Garner in Mazda commercials. Those were cool, calm, concise commercials that made me feel all warm and fuzzy. The commercials for Chrysler products from Ricardo Montalban were similarly soothing. Unfortunately, those guys are all dead now. Lincoln tried the past three years to recapture that feeling using Matt McConaughey as their spokesperson, but not to great effect. I was surprised that Emerson Fittipaldi emerged to promote the Kia Stinger, though. I hope they were all paid well.

But no, Tesla doesn't need to pay for commercials to set the record straight, or firmly crooked, regarding their products, services, or reputation. I like their marketing decision to stick with word of mouth. If every show or sporting event I see for the rest of my life is "BROUGHT TO YOU BY PEPSI!!!" I'm still gonna want a Coke. And despite decades of exposure to their advertisements & commercials, I still purchase and use exactly zero products from Phillip Morris or Anheuser-Busch.

Whatever Customers Tesla does not get without advertising can stick with Toyota, Chevrolet, and Nissan for life as far as I'm concerned. Advertising fees are not in fact, 'the cost of doing business' in my opinion. The one thing advertising firms promote best is their own services.

The TRUTH is out there for anyone willing to seek it out. Advertising obscures. Marketing illuminates.

TAC | 4 april 2019

No, but the FUD posts are.

cliffordsf | 4 april 2019

I was in the market for a Hyundai Kona EV. The reviews were off the chart, but the experience trying to buy one was miserable. I was told that they were shipping them randomly, and the color I wanted wasn't available in the area...so they were pushing to get me to buy one that they had in stock. When I said I could wait for the blue one, I was told that they could see 60-days out and there was nothing coming in. I finally gave in, and said I'd go with a grey one. We'd agreed upon a price that was 1K above MSRP, but once they'd hooked me, it's became 3K over MSRP because they were in demand. I walked and went to Tesla. Sure, I had to wait 2.5 weeks to get it, but I got what I wanted. And lets not forget the supercharger network that comes along for the right. Really, I don't think EVs are being made in numbers that make it an easy buy; the major car dealers are talking the talk but not necessarily walking the walk. Oh, and before I forget, the Hyundai salesman couldn't let me test drive the car because he said the owner of the dealership was too cheap to buy a charger. Seriously. Tesla still has problems, but in the end, the experience was preferable. Their "no dealerships" model, while it has it's problems, is developing into something I think other manufacturers may one day emulate.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

finman100 is correct.

Magic 8 Ball: More likely he has far too many low I.Q. ICEHOLES in his life who mistakenly think they are... 'clever'.

EVolution: Magic 8 Ball is OK. Like me, has what might be considered a 'twisted' sense of humor. Better to laugh than keep on crying, you see.

Rt002k is correct.

Carl Thompson is completely WRONG, as usual.

dsvick is correct.

jefjes is on point.

cmh95628 | 4 april 2019

@ReD eXiLe ms us Thanks for that trip down memory lane (your first post, not the coke/pepsi one). Nice read.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

TAC: Indeed.

cliffordsf: Thank you for that post. Already some new and old automobile manufacturers are distancing themselves from the use of 'independent franchised dealerships' for the distribution of their upcoming electric cars. I hope it works out for them!

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

cmh95628: Cool. Glad you liked it. My Parents probably had no clue what level of influence that slot-car racing set I got for Christmas would have on my future outlook on transportation technology. But it has had a lasting effect.

mcmack15 | 4 april 2019

Is the glass half empty or half full? Some 'experts' are pushing how the the 1st quarter sales for 2019 showed a notably quarter-to quarter drop (glass half empty), while others note how the 1st quarter sales are up some 110% over the 1st quarter sales in 2018 (glass half full). Which metric carries the most significance? It all depends upon the story one wants to tell, and the other key information behind each figure the storyteller wants to include or exclude. I'll go with the glass half full. Firm seems in better shape than months ago with the recent debt payments ( I do find it odd how the naysayers were all up in arms when this debt was coming due and how the sky was falling,etc., but once the debt was paid---not a word about a job well done, hmmm), and sales in the pipeline from the 1st quarter that will be recorded in the 2nd quarter, etc.

Hoping the SEC noise goes away today, but who knows.........Elon does tend to stir things up................wish he wouldn't but.................

A lot of 3's were sold no matter how one looks at it.

Iwantmy3 | 4 april 2019

My interpretation of the 1Q sales is that Tesla probably spent significant downtime on their lines in order to convert to;
1) European requirements
2) SR and SR+
3) Early preparation for RH drive
All at the same time as making a major overseas push.

I would not read anything into that quarters' results. Right now, I think they are still production and delivery constrained. The real test on demand won't come until production starts to flow out of China.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 4 april 2019

Ah. So basically the same as Q1 2014 Results. More cars going to more places, thus leaving Tesla in better financial condition, and ANALysts complain the company hasn't gone out of business, hasn't run out of money, hasn't filed bankruptcy yet, as they predicted, and claim there is 'no demand' for their products, thus headlines of 'disappointing' results that 'miss projections'? Wow what a surprise. What's that smell...? Ah. FUD brewing. Gotcha.

cliffordsf | 4 april 2019

@ReD eXiLe ms us -- Man, I'm pretty happy that the Hyundai fell through -- buying a car where EVs are their ONLY business, and not a fractional part of their business, makes a lot of sense. For this reason alone, I think Tesla is here to stay and the smart choice for EV owners.

spuzzz123 | 4 april 2019

Carl Thompson: I believe they delivered 90k model 3s worldwide in q1. Is that disappointing? I thought it sounded rather impressive but perhaps expectations were much higher than that? I agree that advertising will help but right now I’m not sure that the bottleneck is demand yet. Rather it’s probably production capacity. And there’s no need to advertise until production capacity exceeds demand.

Joshan | 4 april 2019

Is EVolution losing credibility?

Joshan | 4 april 2019

Spuzz is spot on...

finman100 | 4 april 2019

wow, best 1st quarter of any Tesla year is a bad thing. got it.

These things don't mean anything? ha, ha.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/04/3-charts-on-tesla-quarterly-deliver...

and...nevermind. let's see where other EV mfgs end up.

Tesla has street cred and that is long term.

dmastro | 4 april 2019

@spuzz123: It was 63,000 deliveries in 1Q19.

@finman100: You could also look at it as the biggest drop in deliveries in Tesla's history - 31% compared to 4Q18.

Also, I'm not sure how advertising plays into this at all, but as of now the EV niche is tiny, and sales are dominated by early adopters and fanatics. To expand the market and draw in the people who don't know or care about EVs, or have reservations about the technology, I submit that advertising would help expand the pool of buyers.

Joshan | 4 april 2019

no use adding more buyers when your struggling to keep up with the current demand. Will just create more bad press and chicken littles.

dmastro | 4 april 2019

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joshan | April 4, 2019
no use adding more buyers when your struggling to keep up with the current demand. Will just create more bad press and chicken littles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tell that to Apple and the annual shortage of iPhones (well, until last year)

Joshan | 4 april 2019

Apple doesnt seem to get the media skepticism and FUD that tesla does. People seem to cheer for Apple, but attack Tesla. Just looking at my Edge newsfeed today there are 4 negative Tesla stories. I do not see another negative story about another car maker.

rxlawdude | 4 april 2019

The media makes money through advertisements and clickbait. Tesla not paying a dime for advertising simply enrages them.

Rt002k | 4 april 2019

@Joshan - I saw a negative story for another manufacturer the other day. It was buried as the third part of a Jalopnik article about Tesla. Nothing major - just a safety investigation into Kia and Hyundai about over 3 THOUSAND car fires sponaneously breaking out. It would affect over 3 million cars. Interestingly, an actual story focused just on that didn't pop up on my feed (that link below Jalopnik).

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-may-be-making-model-3s-faster-than-anyone-tho...
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/feds-open-probe-into-reported-hyundai-and-k...

howard | 4 april 2019

I don't think the negative press coverage is due to advertisers creating negative issues to report about to just generate advertising revenue. The issues are there so they are reported on.

spuzzz123 | 4 april 2019

Sorry, I fell for bad info from the Interwebs

weluvm3 | 4 april 2019

I think this article makes some good points. Interestingly, I am not allowed to post a link to it:

https://arstechnica. com/cars/2019/04/elon-musks-management-philosophy-is-holding-tesla-back/

EVolution | 4 april 2019

@Red You might not be influenced my a commercial but majority of people do

If you read Thinking Fast and Slow from Kahneman, the more you see a product the more you are inclined to buy one when comes the hesitation between 2 products. This is how the System 1 of the brain works and this is how you convince the masses by controlling their lizard brains

Rt002k | 4 april 2019

@howard

Where is all of the outrage and headline news about every automaker seeing a dip this quarter (except Honda and Hyundai)? Tesla gets its own "sky is falling" blast, while everyone else gets lumped together in a ho-hum "but spring is here and should be better" write-up.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/04/02/auto-sales-decline-march-first-quart...

EVolution | 4 april 2019

“Magic 8 Ball | April 4, 2019
@EVolution You must be popular if you have dozens of people coming by, every day, asking about your car. Do other people come by and want to talk about other things?”

At my clinic and 3 hospitals I work at, I see 120 patients a day, I have about 30 employees and staff rotating from ER, clinics and OR. Believe me, I get a lot of questions asking on how are doing my 4 boys and if I took delivery of my bloody car. Because the staff I work with is constantly making fun of me with my old unbeatable 1999 Toyota Tercel that I used to drive as an intern before I graduated. Honestly, I’m being asked 50 times a day how is my newborn doing and 25 times if I still drive a 1999 shitbox. “No sir, still waiting for that nice electric car, have you ever heard of Tesla? They are better than the implants you have in your joints. You should consider it.”

howard | 4 april 2019

Rt002k, I agree. The negative press coverage drives viewers. Just like other major issues in our country seem to be driven by a desire to produce the most negative of coverages real, justified or otherwise.

I think it is to draw viewers not to force Tesla into taking out advertisements. That is my point.

Rt002k | 4 april 2019

"I drive a Tercel. Yeah that's a Toyota" - great pickup line

howard | 4 april 2019

EVolution, give up on the negative aspects of a few. It has and will always be this way. I for one am in agreement with you. I sometimes think Tesla directly orchestrates the negative issues just to have the "free" coverage. Does not seem like they really deal with it in a positive way. Oh, that would cost money and they don't need to because they have the best product on the market and will never ever have any real competition. I am proof to the contrary and take plenty of heat for it. Flame on!

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