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I hate the lies about electric rates

I hate the lies about electric rates

Gad, I hate how the electric company lies about electric rates. "You are paying 7.2cents/KWh" - hahahah - when you break down delivery costs, "Research recovery Costs", Taxes etc Try .2451 cents/KWh. (ConEd, NYC)

Firaz.ashraf | 17 april 2019

Pricing in America is deceitful. Ever complain about menu prices at restaurants vs what you truly end up paying after tip/service charge? How about the cost of medicine or generally healthcare?

To offset the cost you indicated, in order of complexity (assuming no free supercharging):
1. Sign up for smartcharge new york
2. Try to find NYC spoored free charging (usually at municipal lots where you pay for parking but I have heard of some near queens college that may be free. Have not ventured out yet)
3. Evaluate if you can avail the ConEd electric vehicle program for time of use (preferably separate meter, not the whole house, unless that still works for you)
4. Evaluate Solar...

Kary993 | 17 april 2019

I use time of use now and it is much better. Trying to find free plugin's are hard at times and certainly inconvenient. We are considering solar though as most folks I have talked to are getting pay back with 4 to 6 years.

charlie | 17 april 2019

The QC lots are "student/faculty only", and as soon as I get the HPWC in, I will sign up for smartcharge NY (right now takes long enough)

The Time of User meter isn't practical

Looked at solar a couple of years back, and because of my roof configuration etc, we actually have a negative payback :(

Oh well.

wiscy67 | 17 april 2019

We have solar and have had our Tesla for about 3 weeks. So far our weekly SDGE status report show even with car charging we're making more than using. The problem is SDGE won't lose money. For sure they will increase the peak rates and may expand the current 4pm-9pm peak rate time slot. I'm sure they've got some fun pricing games in store for us in the future. The next wave / current wave is solar customers moving to home batteries to combat the games.

jjgunn | 17 april 2019

Still better than a SuperCharger in CA at .30 a kW :-)

finman100 | 17 april 2019

Don't we all pay more for faster...internet, cars, computers...shipping? just to name a few.
Superchargers are just that: fast electron delivery. you want it faster you get to pay more. it isn't free pixie dust bringing the juice!

The saying is "speed kills"...but speed also costs.

wiscy67 | 17 april 2019

Here in San Diego there's a TOU plan where super off peak is 9 cents kWh but you have to pay a $16/mo fee to get that rate. That fee could change, the super off peak rate could change and so could those off peak hours. They will not lose money.

TexasBob | 17 april 2019

Texas is not the best on consumer protections (ahem, generally awful) but on electricity it is very good. Other states should adopt this practice. The Texas PUC implemented a requirement that all electricity providers have to give you an Energy Facts Label before you sign a contract. It shows total cost of electricity "all charges billed to a customer, including the costs of generation, transmission, distribution, fuel, and customer service." They also have to disclose all the contract terms, cancellation policies, etc.

Even better, they have to show the generation sources, % renewables and emissions profile. So electricity companies compete on contract terms, electricity price, and quality of their generation sources.

https://www.puc.texas.gov/industry/electric/rates/facts/efl_brochure.pdf

Lonestar10_1999 | 17 april 2019

Let's hope electric utilities remain regulated industries. That will help keep pricing fair and transparent.

jjgunn | 17 april 2019

It's going to be even more important as more people drive EV's

TexasBob | 17 april 2019

@Lonestar the utilities are UN-regulated here. That is what keeps pricing fair and transparent

That is why you can get 36 month fixed contract for 100% renewable power at 9.5 cents/kwh (has gone up a lot this year!). In Dallas, for example.

Here is the PUC sponsored comparison web site. http://powertochoose.org/en-us , (zip code 75235 for Dallas)

Mediumed | 17 april 2019

@charlie even at those high rates you are still paying about half as much as you would if you used gasoline as your fuel as this chart shows.

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf

tslaM3 | 17 april 2019

@charlie

I have been complaining about PSEG Long Island not offering any special rates for EVs. Based on my current monthly bill (amount/total use kWh), it comes to about 20 cents/kWh. Maybe I shouldn't complain then.

gordon_r_benson | 17 april 2019

I recall Sprint advertising unlimited cell phone service a decade or so ago for $29.99 so signed up and they were confused when I called and questioned my $54 first bill...

jordanrichard | 17 april 2019

Here in CT, we pay more to get the electricity than the electricity itself. My current electric bill for last month worked out to the following: Supply (kwh used) $164.50 Delivery $191.18 totaling $355.23. My actual per kWh is $.09 but after factoring the delivery charges and taxes it ends up being $.20.

crmedved | 17 april 2019

I live in Delaware. They charge supply fees, distribution/transmission fees along with a couple of other small taxes/fees.

I wouldn't say it is misleading... it's just generally you will only have control over the supply charge. The distribution and transmission fees are mandated by your electric utility, then you get to choose who supplies the energy based on rates and/or green energy %. My delivery fees are roughly 4.7 cents / kwh and supply is 6.8 cents / kwh + a $8 transmission capacity fee (based on how much electricity I use at once I think, mine is 2.65 kw).

Electric utilities are heavily regulated here, for better or worse. My provider has been trying to get an EV program launched for over a year and a half to give night time EV charging rates and subsidized L2 charger installs.

jordanrichard | 17 april 2019

Here are all the additional charges, beyond the actual electricity

Transmission Charge
Distribution charge (fixed rate of $9.21)
Electric sys Improvements
Distribution charge per kWh
Revenue Adjustment Mechanism
CTA charge
FMCC delivery charge
Combined Public Benefit Charge.

Kataniki | 17 april 2019

So glad we got solar last year, payback is about 10 years, I am happy even if never pays back - but it will in less than 10 years. Want home battery storage but not practical right now, mainly because we are on well water and 100% electric for heat, etc. Baltimore Gas and Electric is about 12.5 kwh fully loaded - not too bad after reading about NY. Another solar install benefit - got the Solar Edge inverter - EV charger installed as part of the system - no extra charge.

wallacej010 | 17 april 2019

On the Island of Hawaii (Moku o Keawe), my bottom line is derived from the following figures :

total electric bill for the last year/total kWh for the past year= $.37per kWh

average kWh per mile (life of car) multiplied by $.37 = cost per mile (currently $.10 per mile)

I find this to be about the same as the cost per mile (fuel only) to drive my previous car. (Camry hybrid) and about 1/3 the cost of driving my full size 4wd pickup.

I have a Model 3 Performance.

The relative constant price of electricity here vs the volatility of gasoline prices means that SOMETIMES my Tesla is cheaper to drive than my previous car.

that is the way it is somewhere in the pacific.....

ReD eXiLe ms us | 17 april 2019

This reminds me. I need to pay the electric bill tomorrow.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=customize&return=https%3A...

ADinM3 | 17 april 2019

Many electric companies have a more detailed billing breakdown view they will provide if you call and ask. In my case, I could then see the ~12 line items that summed to my final effective rate. Once added up, effective rate is roughly twice the core electric rate, but fortunately it is still below $.08/kWh fully loaded.

wb808 | 17 april 2019

Try Hawaii at 0.36/kWh! HECO sucks balls with its monopoly and dumb rate plans (TOU reduced rates are during the DAY, not night, and if you were lucky to get a NET meter with a PV system (like us) that they no longer offer, any change to your system to add power/panels will void your plan and revert to the current B.S. crap of them giving you a fraction of what you produce as credit while charging you full price of what you use. Total racket with the highest in the US electric rates but even still the m3 gets about the same “mpg” as our Honda Fit with 10 times the performance and prestige :)

ALDONY | 18 april 2019

@jordanrichard

Rockland orange here, same problem.

Being from Italy and considering that this country produces and have so much natural resources, I am shocked that my bill. In around 300-400 a month.

In Italy I never exceed the $ 25 to 40 per month.

It's a monopoly, considering that most of the cables are still hanging from poles like in 60s in my hometown.

Would love to live off the grid for sure

gmr6415 | 18 april 2019

@ALDONY, Good thing you don't live in Florida:

Florida Makes Off-Grid Living Illegal – Mandates All Homes Must Be Connected To Electricity & Water Grid

https://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/09/florida-makes-off-grid-l...

That's not quite 100% true especially if you live on a property with well and septic (those are currently considered approved utilities in those locations, but the state is trying to do away with all private septic systems or make them too expensive to use through required annual inspections).

When you build solar in FL you have to have an inner-connect agreement with a power company, and to meet the requirements of that agreement you have to use an approved solar contractor and you have to be connected to the grid, but through a disconnect that you give the power company authority to come onto your property and flip off at any time. Sure there are ways around that but it's extremely difficult, and since you are connected to the grid even if you produce more power than you use, you still get hit with a minimum meter reading fee and taxes on that fee every month. If you go the whole year producing more power than you use any additional net metering accumulated at the end of the year is paid back to you at wholesale (pennies on the dollar) rather than retail. On top of that if you want to install more than 10kWh of PV (residential) you are required to carry a $1million blanket liability policy, so at least part of what you are saving with the PV is consumed in additional insurance premiums. That's outputted 10kWh, so you can actually install about 11.6kWh of PV.

The one big exception is No Name Key, just north of Big Pine Key. There is no municipal or corporate water, sewer or electrical on the island, so everyone lives off the grid. It's quite an interesting drive to drive around the island and see what everyone is using to power their homes.

charlie | 18 april 2019

@jordanrichard - Yes, here in NYC the same - the power is 7 cents of the 24+

I'm actually NOT complaining about the cost of electric being 24 cents - I'm complaining that ConEd trumpets the 7 cents they charge you for the electric, then not telling you that they then charge you an additional 17 cents to deliver said, once all is said and done

It would be like Coke saying "2 liters of Coke, 2 cents" (about what it costs) and when you go to buy it "But you have to buy the bottle for an additional $1.83"

And yeah, the Cell Phone bill lie bugs me just as much

roger.klurfeld | 18 april 2019

Here in Virginia, Dominion Energy's rate comprises 18 different components. Luckily, Dominion has a spreadsheet available on their web site that will let you figure it all out. But if you had to figure it out from its rate structure, like I originally tried, you would give up.

kevin_rf | 18 april 2019

I hear you, my TOU rate is "1.2 cents", then you add in delivery, 5.5 cents, meter rental, and other charges and taxes it comes out to roughly 9.5 cents a kwh. Roughly half the kwh rate of what they charge my house.

But hey, I'm paying 1.2 cents per kwh!!!!

Kataniki | 18 april 2019

Glad we are in Maryland, though we get paid back at wholesale rates for any excess the PV system generates. So want to go off grid but logistically not quite ready. As more adopt renewable energy sources, the utilities are going to fight harder like in Florida...

styvwerx | 21 april 2019

I just went online with the local power company, PG&E, and changed to their EV rate. The site says they will figure out your best usage profile, but doesn't clue you in about the REAL lowest plan, unless you look for the EV plan. Saving a few bucks a month, while waiting for solar panel installation. Contemplating a PowerWall2, and waiting for Tesla to tell me if they really exist.