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Battery Maximum Charge

Battery Maximum Charge

I’ve had my Model 3 Performance AWD now for about two months and already it is only allowing me to get to 306 miles on full charge. I travel about 66 to 74 miles a day and mostly charge to 90% every day. The car gets used every weekday and at least one day over the weekend. I’ve done the full charge about 3 times since buying it. Last week I drove it down to about 45 miles of charge.

Any ideas why it’s dropped to 306 when it is supposed to be closer to 329? It’s cold here at the minute, about 2 degrees Celsius. Is that a possible reason?

stingray.don | 30 november 2019

Your rated range should be 310 miles not 329. So sounds like you have a healthy battery. Your rated range is based on a constant and will not change based on weather. Your actual range will be affected by weather, driving style, tire size and pressure, etc.

pmbarker | 30 november 2019

That’s not what is specified on the Tesla site when you buy one! It states 329 for the performance and 345 for the none performance. I understand I’m not actually going to get those miles when driving it. But I do expect it to charge up to those amounts. I also understand that it will degrade over time since cells will fail. But not this quickly! It is suppose to charge up to around 329!

stingray.don | 1 december 2019

When you bought your car the rated range was 310 miles. This was recently bumped up to 322 and Tesla has not stated weather or not existing owners will get the same increase. Your current range estimate is normal.

andy | 1 december 2019

The web site and advertising uses the standard that manufacturers are required to use. The car displays a more real world standard, which is also what used to be used in the US.

I drive similar mileage and have done 9k miles in 3 months. I get a similar maximum charge range, small drop from 310, but the temperature has also dropped significantly.

LR AWD

andy | 1 december 2019

By the way OP, you phrasing suggests that, like me, you are in the UK?

andy | 1 december 2019

Sorry “your phrasing”.

Bighorn | 1 december 2019

Seems like you’ve done zero due diligence as this comes up almost every day for over a year now.

andy | 1 december 2019

@bighorn it’s a regulatory problem. The manufacturers aren’t as I understand it, allowed to give anything other than the standardised figure. I’ve seen the Nissan social media team have that issue where they are required to point to the official figures and statements. I’m sure the team would like to say more if they were allowed.

The system that was popular in the US was better. I only really knew to look for other references as I had a year in a Leaf and then found a web site that was reporting mileage that closely matched my experience.

If manufacturers and advertisers are required to only give one standardised figure, and other users tell prospective buyers “it depends” then there isn’t much due diligence people can do as they don’t know where to look.

FWIW I use the ev-database web site and then take 80% of the quoted ranges under different conditions as the mileage I might want to plan for between stop (allows for starting at 90% and charging at 20% or before).

The way the Tesla in-car mileage display works is very good - one of the points where it leads the Leaf (the Leaf has other advantages on some driver aids).

gmr6415 | 1 december 2019

@pmbarker, can't speak for what the advertised mileage was when you ordered, but currently the non performance states a rated range of 322 and the performance states a rated range of 310.

WW_spb | 1 december 2019

Trololo

WW_spb | 1 december 2019

345miles? Must be nice. I want one

WW_spb | 1 december 2019

Got to love numerous posts every week from one user. That claims everything with his car is bad. From battery range drop to many problems with the car. Classic.

andy | 1 december 2019

@gmr6415 - I think the OP is in the UK. Advertising here has to use the WLTP range, which always quotes higher than EPA.

@whitewi. Don’t know who you’re referring to as several of us have posted here. I’m happy with my car. I do make suggestions about future software improvements on a car that has regular software improvements.

WW_spb | 1 december 2019

I am talking about every week new user arrives and creates few different threads. Each one for different bad/terrible problems he has. From Battery degradation to various other problems that he never experienced in his previous flawless ICE cars. And then they vanish as fast as they claimed all of the terrible things Tesla.

andy | 1 december 2019

Normal for any forum. You get hobbyists who stick around for the social space and engage and you get people who visit to ask targeted questions. Only a very few registered users of any forum post and there's a small percentage who post and read regularly.

I've been using different online spaces for nearly 30 years. They are all the same with regard to users as we are all people and this is how we are. In marketing theory everybody also makes post purchase evaluations so queries and checks are completely normal.

On this thread the OP used a couple of styles of phrasing that are used in spoken English and, as an English rather than American, speaker, I recognise them. Not sure what you are thinking, but I can pretty much vouch for it being a post by an owner. I'd put money on similar posts by others being the same (queries from new owners).

halvarez69 | 1 december 2019

I have a long range M3 and have had it for over 1 year with 24k miles. I started at 310 max and am now down to 287 max or so...and no I never charge to 100%. I've seen many people speculate on why and how they may believe they can "tweek" the total range...but unfortunately, I believe the more obvious reasoning is the case.....and that it that it is simply a rechargable battery and it WILL steady decline. I think we are stuck with simply waiting until it drops below 70% max and hope it occurs before the battery warranty expires, so we can get a new one. I just don't think there is any magic, nor has anyone provided a special fix to get the original range back up. If anyone has had it for 6 or more months and still gets 310.....I want your battery.

peter | 1 december 2019

M3 LR July 2018, 13K. Charge limit without operator input changed to 100% one day instead of the usual 90%. Realized and stopped charging before it'd be completed and it was showing 316 mi with 5 min left to charge. 90% usually charges to 280mi.

ian-laurie | 2 december 2019

I have a model 3 long range, only done 2500 miles and try not to max charge when not needed. I am barely getting 250 miles from a full charge. Trip to France recently was advising supercharger visit at 220 miles with just 10% remaining. Have I got a dud?

spuzzz123 | 2 december 2019

@ian-laurie the "rated range" is based on pretty ideal conditions and driving styles. So dry roads, warm, driving no faster than speed limits, no wind, flat. It is not uncommon, in colder weather, to only achieve 250 miles on a charge. There are things you can do to get closer to the rated range. Usually, I don't bother - unless there is a particular reason why I have to. (for example a long round trip with no charging at my destination. In the spring, my rated range returns and I'm happy.

ModernTriDad | 2 december 2019

I have a Model 3 Performance that I took delivery of exactly 366 days ago. My mileage is about 16000 and I charge to 85-90% every couple days. I’ve only charged to 100% once, dropping only a few times down to 10-20 miles of charge. Sadly, my max charge seems to be around 290 already. I’m hopeful that my car will magically recalibrate to tell me the max is closer to 310. Seems unlikely at this point and it is definitely frustrating within a year of getting it to have such a drop. I drive it pretty conservatively and only supercharged a dozen times for trips and when I first took delivery, while I had no other charging option.

Bighorn | 2 december 2019

It’s a shame the neurosis over numbers that have zero impact irl.

rdh37 | 2 december 2019

Well said @Bighorn. As I stated in a different thread, my rated range has varied from 310 exactly "down" to about 299 now. HOWEVER, on a daily basis, for 11k miles total, on a 2019 LR AWD, I have 3% usage, each way for my daily work commute. The commute is 13 miles one way, mostly on a congested hwy. This has NOT varied from day 1. As long as it does not drop significantly, I have no worries at all.

Additional info.

Car is kept in an unheated garage in winter and in the driveway in summer.
Car is generally not kept plugged in overnight. Car is charged to 85% two nights per week.
I generally heat/cool the car for about 20 minutes prior to leaving regardless of if the car is plugged in or not.
Heat is kept at between 68 and 72 degrees and on auto. Seat heaters are used
A/C is kept at between 68 and 72 degrees and on auto. Driver's side seat heater is used all the time.
AVG wh/mi is 255 for the life of the car to date.

Have a nice day.

model3AZ42 | 2 december 2019

I wish they would just update the software to show miles at full after charging, regardless of what it actually was based on your driving habits. Honestly I don’t know why they don’t. For 99% of these cars it’s not an issue. Sure there are some that have battery issues. Just like a phone. Hence the warranty.

I’m sure everyone would freak out when their ICE car gets 350 miles off a full tank of gas and then only gets 330 the next tank. Before I bought a car these constant threads used to worry me. It’s a non issue. There is a warranty for the battery if it has issues.

I’ve only been an owner for 8 months and I’m tired of these threads and people not understanding. Clearly it’s a perceived issues and something Tesla needs to do a better job managing.

WW_spb | 2 december 2019

Only thing Nissan Leaf got right. It had battery bars. If bar disappeared you lost (don't remember exactly) certain % of capacity. Would be nice to know health of your battery on the fly.

model3AZ42 | 2 december 2019

The iPhone has that as an option in settings. That would be a great idea.

rcmarshall | 2 december 2019

When I purchased my P3 a year ago the rated maximum range on a full charge was 315mi. The last update I received before V10 immediately dropped that range by 7mi. to 308 and it hasn't changed since then. I would just like to know the reason why Tesla decided to shave 7mi. off my max range.

kevin_rf | 2 december 2019

As much as everyone gets neurosis over range number differences that only add up to a couple of percent, I do like using range instead of percent in my day to day driving. Personal preference...

Ever tell you about early in my career making some semiconductor bulk material test equipment. Well, the Japanese customer noticed it was biasing 1/10 of a percent high. They basically lost their collective cookies over 1/10 of 1 percent. It did not matter it was being used to qualify bulk materials with a wide passing range between 80%-95% transmission. No we had to a deep dive to find that 1/10 of 1 percent.

I look at these range threads, shake my head, and it brings back memories... Of course I currently have a sales drone on a crusade about an instrument producing cell counts 20% higher than the unit it is replacing. I hate Maths.

WW_spb | 2 december 2019

Do you really care about 7 miles difference?

rcmarshall | 2 december 2019

@ White Wi
As a electronic tech, my question is based far more upon curiosity as to possible technical reasons for the change ie. battery longevity, possible battery cooling issue from the new higher powered chargers etc.than it is grousing about a small drop in range. I'll be happy as long as I have enough range to get from one supercharger to the next.

model3AZ42 | 2 december 2019

@rxmarshal. My P3- went up 7 miles after the update. Elon gave your miles to me!!

Tronguy | 2 december 2019

FWIW: That range number on the dash is an _estimate_. And the estimator appears to have as its inputs some regulatory stuff as well as the battery management computer's idea of how much charge is hanging around.
A month ago, the SO and I took a 2000-mile vacation/road trip.
1. Before the trip, at 90% charge, the mileage was 277-279.
2. Day we left, full charged it, got 314.
3. On the trip, with long runs between chargeups, 90% charge was 284-285
4. Since we got back, range has dropped at 90% charge to 282.
Summarizing: With the same battery but different charge/discharge follies, and extrapolating from 90% to full charge, we have:
1. 308 (278/.9)
2. 314 (100%)
3. 316 (284.5/.9)
4. 313 (282/.9)
Same battery, different charges, over a two-week interval, with maximum difference (min to max) of 8 miles.
That's about a 2.5% variation.
Conclusion: The accuracy of the range estimator likely has a floor uncertainty of 2.5% or so.. probably more.