"It would be awesome to throw a pie in the face of all naysayers on Wall Street"

"It would be awesome to throw a pie in the face of all naysayers on Wall Street"

SO yesterday I had a few mins between work stuff so I emailed the person who sold me my MS and the Delivery specialist.
It's coming up to exactly a year since I got my MS and I havent been happier with a vehicle.

Tonight I saw this article

Coincidentally, I emailed them yesterday telling them that I would be happy to liaise with them and provide any testimonials they need for prospective new customers.

Helping them sell cars doesnt just help me financially by raising stock prices, it helps me stay with a company whose product I believe in.
Keeping them in business ensures that I can keep driving Teslas for years to come.

I am happy to do what I can to help.
Will you?

(ps. Good job to the Michigan Tesla owners who are giving out test drives -

Longelon | 3 september 2016

I am sick with the daily barrage of negative articles in Seeking Alpha on Tesla. I doubt if any of these contributors own a Tesla or even test driven one. The company's fundamentals are nothing to rave about, but it is the growth prospects that one invests in. Interesting to note the stock actually went up immediately after a bad quarter.

222 | 3 september 2016

I'm more amused by them (negative articles) than annoyed....... Actually selling more cars and earning potential is more important to me than the fight between people shorting the stock and people who are on the long game

Tropopause | 3 september 2016

The Tesla and Elon story is truly a rarity in US business. I enjoy seeing how TSLA is bucking Wallstreet's effort to short Tesla, which could potentially lead to a hostile takeover. This story is something we should all get behind and be proud of American ingenuity.

Jay Leno said it best, "I don't understand why people attack this car. It is made in America, by Americans. It is built local. You know we are becoming like the British — we like noble failures more than we reward success."

222 | 3 september 2016

Changing the status quo is why people attack this car. Car dealers, Gas station owners, ICE makers, Oil and Gas companies all lose. The only ones who win are consumers and health care advocates........... ie no one important in this type of economy

In fact, if I was an evil CEO in Oil and Gas, I'd get my buddies together and buy out Tesla and crash the company. It's nice that in 2016 we have social media and would do to them what American mothers are doing to Mylan right now if that were ever to happen.

One last thing. Forget that it's an American Co, making an American car, that reduces American pollution and adds new American jobs etc.......... if any redneck hillbilly "make american great again"-cap wearing moron really believes that we need to win the "war or terrorism" then they would really support independence from foreign oil....... oh wait, that involves intelligent conversation about EVs and actually supporting Tesla.....

Tropopause | 3 september 2016


Well said! :)

Don't forget- energy companies could potentially win if we all migrate towards BEV's, including Tesla Solar!

stevenmaifert | 3 september 2016

222 - That guy who wants to "make American great again" believes in fair trade. Why do you think Tesla wants to build a factory in China? Answer: It's to avoid the 25% import tax it currently pays for each electric vehicle it ships to the country. Do you think that's fair? China is a huge potential market for Tesla, and if those cars were made in the US, how many American jobs could be added. Now you can support a candidate for President who will actually try to do something about that trade inequity or you can support one that will smile politely, do nothing, and continue to take foreign donations. Which one would be best for Tesla?

"In November 2013, America hit a milestone of energy independence: For the first time in nearly two decades, the U.S. produced more oil domestically than it imported from foreign sources." Ref:

"In 2015, about 24% of the petroleum consumed by the United States was imported from foreign countries, the lowest level since 1970" Ref:

So I guess all those terrorists should like us now and stop trying to kill us, right?

AoneOne | 3 september 2016

Trade with China is complicated and changes in our relationship can have undesirable consequences:

We tried to protect domestic tires from "unfair" competition from China and they retaliated with tariffs on our cars.

I am very wary of anyone claiming to be able to bully China for our benefit. There's just too much at stake.

222 | 3 september 2016

@stevenmaifert - HAHAHAHAHAHA.........
Ok.... maybe in another lifetime we'll discuss politics..... but I refuse to do so on a website and also with someone who believes in that guy...... point of fact - anyone who has views that align with the Klan has issues that are too big for me to get into..... (albeit I'm really really tempted! ;) )

and as far as trade issues..... no i'm not an expert to comment on that ....I dont google things and reply on websites like if i'm an expert ....... i know my area of expertise and trade isnt it.....

but what i do know, is that most people in the US who talk about "the war on terror" hasnt ever been outside this country and doesnt understand the geopolitics of the world.

Yes .... we're more oil independent than we were ... but would be a lot better off if we pushed hard on emissions standards, promoting EVs, and removing subsidies to Oil companies. I dont trust most politicians to do this because it's not in the interest of big business .... but in the end we would be safer if our own tax dollars didnt go back to foreign companies/countries with competing interests to ours...... (not that we have ethical or moral foreign policies in the first place)

*sigh* .... never mind.... not interested in getting into this on a website..... i'll refrain from further comments :)

Dramsey | 3 september 2016

point of fact - anyone who has views that align with the Klan has issues that are too big for me to get into

As opposed to, say, someone whose "friend and mentor" actually established their own local Klan chapter?

I'm jus' sayin'....there's no winning with these two.

222 | 3 september 2016

go back 50-75 years.... i'm sure most everyone here has relatives who wore hoods.........

It's of particular interest to me which political candidates the hooded ones support in 2016..... those are the candidates I'll run from.....

(trying to move back to the point of the thread)..... having said that, i'll repeat that I dont trust any politician out there to move towards EVs in a meaningful way.... there's not enough lobbying money behind it and that's how politics work in the US system of government...... Legislatures dont move unless pushed to or are paid to.... I do think CA, OR, and WA tries a little more than the rest tho......

carlk | 4 september 2016

The Fremont SC apparently did not do a good job. I still got to taste two different kinds of (very nice) coffee when I was there Friday. There are a couple people on this forum I'd like to throw a pie in the face too. One in particular if I can find him in between his traveling around the world.

On the political front a guy who thinks climate change is a Chinese haox and strongly supports coal minning and fracking is not going to be very good for Tesla, EV and the environment.

SO | 4 september 2016

@stevenmaifert - (in terms of terrorismand the Middle East) people who keep pointing to the fact that we don't buy as much foreign oil are missing the point completely.

You see, even if WE don't buy the oil from the Middle East, someone else is. The fact that the world consumes so much oil in general keeps the price fairly high. (Granted, it has dropped, but still a lot of money).

The goal needs to be to reduce the amount of oil needed worldwide and make oil become worth as much as nothing. Then the Middle East will not have all the 100's of billions coming in all these years and we wouldn't keep intervening to "protect our interests"...err "free the people".

So....the point of the US getting most of our oil from North America does NOTHING in terms of reducing the oil price enough to where we don't care about the Middle East. They still have us by the "you know what's".....if you think about it. But what we do gain by getting more oil from North America is that we f'up our backyard more. Yee haa!

SO | 4 september 2016

And yes, I do realize we still need oil for production. But roughly 70% of oil is used for just transporting our butts around. If that could be reduced significantly, the price of oil could be reduced to where the Middle East wouldn't receive insane amounts of money. The Middle East is having to make cutbacks already but now oil is somewhat stabilizing. We need to keep pushing it lower.

As far as jobs in the US in the oil industry, they need to transition to building alternative energy systems. The US could lead the world in the next energy revolution. Or we could sit back and let China lead the way out of necessity from not being able to breathe.

SO | 4 september 2016

Oil should not be the main source of income for a country. People of that country have little incentive to positively contribute in other ways. Too much time on their hands while making money off the sludge their butts happen to sit on.

Ross1 | 4 september 2016

If the demand lessens, they will lessen production.
Lesson 101.

SO | 4 september 2016

Ross - a point. They can only lessen so far without major changes to sources of income. When most of their economy relies heavily on that production, they will be forced to make a choice.

Econ 101.

SO | 4 september 2016

... And their people will be forced to contribute to society in other positive ways. Education will be more of a necessity. Realizing that suppressing half their population (women) is no longer viable.

The same goal is reached and a benefit to us all.

So even if oil were to remain at $100 per barrel, we could reduce the amount needed by 70% worldwide. No single country could rely on oil as their main source of income.

Of course this cannot happen overnight. But within one generation, things could look vastly different for the world.

AlMc | 4 september 2016

Back to the OP's original point. Many of us are happy to continue supporting the TM mission statement by buying TM products and giving testimonials and test drives even if we question some of the decisions EM/TM makes.

Talking politics is the 'third rail' of any conversation......along with religion and how to raise your children.

SO | 4 september 2016

AIMc - Very true. You are more correct than the rest of us put together. :)

jvs11560 | 4 september 2016

I like a good American success story. I hope TSLA does well and continues to help in the green energy field. What I am opposed to is someone gaming the system. For the record, MR Musk is not an American. Everyone one of his ventures relies on Government incentives, Carbon credits, and some form of incentive to the purchaser.

I have a problem with my tax dollars giving millionaires $7500 to buy a sports sedan that can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. If you took that 100 battery and de-tuned the gear ratios, you would probably have a 400 mile ev. If someone can afford a 100k car, then do they really need the tax break?

I'm only responding to the OP question here. Mr Musk is on the record, as saying he would sell 100,000 Tesla's in 2015. He sold about 1/2 that number. He had 27000 pre orders for the model X, yet now they are being discounted. Within the last year, he said Tesla would not need any cash in 2016, yet he already had one offering, and is now planning another. It's not that people are throwing pie, as much as the senior management is not being held accountable. This frustrates the investment community. Just something to think about.

JeffreyR | 4 september 2016

@jvs some valid points, but...
Don't forget that the original plan for this year was to transition from fast growth and lots of CapEx to actually making a little profit. Then the Model ≡ reservations went off the charts and Elon decided to "damn the torpedos" and accelerate production.

It reminds me of the card game, Wizard. It's similar to other games of trump, but you only get rewarded for being right. No bonus for going over your bid. It actually costs you points.

Elon is clearly optimistic in his planning (AP post anyone), but he also gets lots done. The good news is that unlike legacy car-makers, he does not need to deal w/ model years and third-party franchises. So when he misses a date, it only affects individual buyers and their decisions, not a company that may fail if they don't manage their inventory properly. So legacy auto-makers need to be conservative and hit their dates. Tesla needs to make sure that prospective buyers (and reservation holders) are converting into sales.

Can Elon and Tesla do better? Of course. But, right now the opportunity cost of not delivering hundreds of thousands of Model ≡s is higher than being right about stock offerings to raise cash.

222 | 4 september 2016

+1000 @AlMc

Marc Tarpenning speaks about co-founding Tesla Motors with Martin Eberhard. This is an interesting listen - a bit long, but worth it.

Tropopause | 4 september 2016


Elon's Master Plans I and II are the point of all this. I don't see any other automobile companies jumping on this bandwagon. They answer to Wall Street. Elon is trying to change the world for the better. If he fails, the "experts" can say they were right. If he succeeds, then it's pie in the naysayers faces.

What's more important? Being right or changing the world for the better?

Al1 | 4 september 2016

For naysayers? It's being right off course.

SO | 4 september 2016

@jvs - it is true that every one of his current ventures does receive some government incentives. But to say "relies" is a strong word. He just wouldn't be moving as quickly.

Don't forget that Ford and GM have received billions in loans and yet to pay back. I'd prefer that none of them get it....ideally. Also don't forget that SpaceX is providing a service for NASA. Or, we can continue to go with the ULA and be charged a few times over for the same service. (It is too bad about this last explosion. But considering the cost to launch is so much cheaper, the customer can probably lose a satellite and still be ahead.)

Anyway....back on point, this next quarter report will be very interesting.

Millionmilesorbust | 4 september 2016

It wasn't an explosion it was a really fast fire.

carlk | 4 september 2016


We simply should be getting away from oil and fossil fuels regardless of price and availability. Fossil fuels have formed for about a billion years it is not meant to be all burned in a short period of time.

Someone said we did not get out of stone age because we ran out of stones. That someone happened to be the once powerful Saudi oil minister Ahmed Zaki Yamani during the OPEC embargo time. If even a person like that could see it why couldn't we?

SO | 4 september 2016

@carlk - I agree with you. But sadly, many other people need different reasons to move away from fossil fuels.

SO | 4 september 2016

@gabe - haha.... You're right. Fast fire. Not an explosion. Whoops!

Tesla-David | 4 september 2016

@222, +1, thanks for the link, fascinating Tesla history.

AlMc | 4 september 2016

@jvs; I totally get your frustration with giving tax credits to the wealthy. I do not consider myself wealthy but did not decline taking the $7,500 tax credit. IMO, I do not believe that TM would have survived by bringing out a mass market car (read affordable) car first. Too little margin. They needed something compelling that would compete/beat the higher end MS, BMW and Audis and garnish the bigger gross margins to pay for accomplishing the mission statement.

As to subsidies: In essence is that not one of the things that a government is for? (not talking politics! ;) ) To 'tax' some things that it is trying to curb and subsidize things it is trying to promote?

SO | 4 september 2016

@AIMc - "not talking politics! ;) "

Whew - especially after I got called out for it. Ha ha

AlMc | 4 september 2016

@soudman: Well, technically it is not 'politics' as both parties have had a hand in it.......Ok, your right, it is too close of a call.....My bad! :(

Bob.Calvo | 5 september 2016

Talking policy is much more interesting and potentially productive than talking politics.
Tax incentives, priorities, etc. can be an interesting conversation about policy.
Once people start red state vs blue state, Trump vs Clinton, etc, then it's politics. And that gets people nowhere.

Pungoteague_Dave | 5 september 2016

Fast fire led to a real explosion. Semantics perhaps, but if you watch (and listen to) the video, the capsule falls to the left and explodes upon hitting the launch pad, pretty impressively.

tes-s | 5 september 2016

Best "pie in the face" is buy the stock.

carlk | 5 september 2016


Good point if you equal naysayers to shorts. That's probably what Elon meant too. I hope he kills those shorts. It's only fair since those people wouldn't care if they destroy one of the greatest things ever happened to American and humankind just for some financial gains.

222 | 5 september 2016

+1 Carik

AoneOne | 5 september 2016

@jvs11560: "MR Musk is not an American" Really? He is an American citizen (since 2002). He pays American taxes. Tesla (a Delaware corporation) pays American taxes.

carlk | 5 september 2016

Not only Mr. Musk is an American his American company is developing new manufacturing technologies and building new manufacturing plants in America while everyone else is taking the easy and cheap way to go overseas. Hopefully his effort could lead the way and turn the tide before we need to beg China to make everything we need and no longer know how to make. Yet those who say they want American great again know only to drill on who are (their) Americans and who are not. Not to mention their leader is all for fracking and coal burning and has no problem with subsiding oil industry and coal mining like that's how you make American great again.