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All Nov Updates including Model 3 Solar Roof and others...

All Nov Updates including Model 3 Solar Roof and others...

Hi Tesla Owners, Enthusiasts and Reservation Holders !

How was your Thanksgiving and Black Friday? Since Nov was coming to an end and we had a lot of tweets and buzz for All Tesla cars, energy and what not I thought I should sum up these updates/news with some detail and screen-shots in a series of posts on my website for each Model 3, S, X and Energy, Tesla... the initial two have come out, you can look at the detailed article here for Model 3: http://www.xautoworld.com/tesla/model-3-november-news-updates/

Pls let me know your thoughts.

Thanks !

EaglesPDX | 28 november 2016

Oh boy....this is going to get the posse on their horses.

Tesla has a huge glass roof. Estimates are 2-5% of the cars power use over a year's time from a the static roof.

A PV glass roof on an EV to promote sustainable energy that already has a glass roof by a company in the solar glass roof business is obvious.

Tiebreaker | 28 november 2016

Yawn...

akgolf | 28 november 2016

Nothing new, just recycled old stuff and included a poll to get your email address.

xautoworld | 28 november 2016

That Poll in no way is associated to my website, just thought Model 3 would get an award before getting to the streets, and the title suggest it's the stuff from whole November, new stuff will come as news breaks :P

Frank99 | 28 november 2016

Reads like it was written by a teenager ("...dumb old two spoke steering (wheel).").

Is there a reason that people on this forum would follow your blog?

xautoworld | 28 november 2016

@Frank99 that was some humor in the article and I am working on things that will have people around the world be begging to follow my blog... :P so stay tuned ! :P

topher | 28 november 2016

"will have people around the world be begging to follow my blog"

Cause that's a thing that happens... :-)

Thank you kindly.

dsvick | 29 november 2016

What's that word .... ? clickbait, yea that's it ....

andy.connor.e | 29 november 2016

Everyone seems to confuse when Elon said the GLASS from the solar roofs is the same kind of glass used for the M3 roof. People seem to think that when Elon mentioned GLASS, they immediately jump to assuming he meant there is going to be a solar roof on the electric car. If you understand current technologies & the amount of power to provide a SIGNIFICANT charge to the car, you'd realize that wasting resources on trying to implement a solar roof into an electric car is completely and utterly inefficient and would provide a completely insignificant amount of power to the battery.

Please do the entire Tesla Forum Community & yourself a favor, and please drop the topic of solar roof for M3.

xautoworld | 29 november 2016

@andy.connor.e you're actually denying the fact that Elon did explicitly said it's going to be a solar roof, @dsvick I am sorry mate you don't have any substance behind your argument !

Frank99 | 29 november 2016

xautoworld -
Don't become another pariah here. Can you quote Elon Musk saying there would be a solar roof? If not, you're full of stuff, my man.

xautoworld | 29 november 2016

@Frank99 you're having outdated information on everythin here, I included screen-shots of Elon Musk's Tweets from 4 november for the proof ! if you don't want to go to my blog you can just scroll down to 4 Nov on Elon's twitter account and see for yourself, I don't need another visitors while I have thousands from Google and FB etc. I was just hoping for a healthy debate,,, Elon even said we can generate more than 5kWh a day with the solar roof and can do on the street charging with the solar roof, I am not kidding about this or been drunk!

xautoworld | 30 november 2016

And for some intense intellectual food for thought on my post at the TMC Forums: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-may-have-solar-roof-that...

EaglesPDX | 30 november 2016

@andy.connor.e " People seem to think that when Elon mentioned GLASS, they immediately jump to assuming he meant there is going to be a solar roof on the electric car. If you understand current technologies & the amount of power to provide a SIGNIFICANT charge to the car, you'd realize that wasting resources on trying to implement a solar roof into an electric car is completely and utterly inefficient and would provide a completely insignificant amount of power to the battery."

Musk specifically said solar glass on the roof in reply to someone who was invested in a lack of understanding of what solar PV glass was and how it works, making wild statements like "completely and utterly ineffecient" when solar PV glass is very effecient, as Musk pointined out in the Tesla Solar Roof introduction.

Most who know how PV works understand that it would generate 2-5% of a Tesla's power for a year. That is very significant when the mission statement of Tesla is a "sustainable transportation system" built on EV with solar the most sustainable source of EV power. For a company like Tesla that has signifcant investment in solar power and solar PV glass as central to its solar power business, the PV glass on the already glass roofed Tesla cars is a business and mission statement necessity.

TeslaTap.com | 30 november 2016

The only reason for a solar vehicle roof is for an expensive fashion statement. It has very little practical value. For me the payback of a cheap $3000 solar vehicle roof option is 110 years! That said, Tesla might include one. I have no problem with giving a few customers what they want, especially if it help's Tesla's bottom line.

Rather than rehash the details, I completed a detailed engineering analysis where you can change values to fit your location or expectation of cost, look at other solar vehicle roof implementations and Elons statements over the years. http://teslatap.com/articles/solar-vehicle-roof-analysis/

TeslaTap.com | 30 november 2016

I should point out that 110 year payback assumes I can keep the car in the sun for the entire day's sunlight (up to 12 hours) every single day in California!

Frank99 | 30 november 2016

xautoworld -
"We will probably offer that as an option" is worlds away from "explicitly said it's going to be a solar roof" - note the word "probably". Frankly, I read his statement as a joke - after having been asked the same question a million times, he finally cracked and let snarky Elon came out. The follow on "deployable solar shield like a retractable hard top" reinforces this - the only people who believe that's a reasonable option for a car have watched too many cartoons. And that includes Eagles, who I've had this conversation with before but is so dishonorable that he keeps repeating such falsehoods as "Musk specifically said...".

No matter how much E wants people to believe this crap, providing 2% of the cars battery needs by building a glass roof, then covering up the inside of it with solar cells, and requiring that you park in the sunniest spot you can find all day, is simply ludicrous. As I've said before, if enough customers want it Tesla should provide it at a healthy profit margin, but it makes no engineering sense.

And please don't make the mistake of telling me my information is outdated, especially when you're demonstrably wrong (EM never "said we can generate more than 5kWh a day with the solar roof "). Grow up, talk to some engineers, and develop some insightful analysis rather than being a FB echo chamber.

EaglesPDX | 30 november 2016

@TeslaTap.com "For me the payback of a cheap $3000 solar vehicle roof option is 110 years! That said, Tesla might include one."

For the many Tesla buyers asking for the solar PV roof, the payback is immediate, just like the purchase of the EV itself. The EV instantly cuts green house gas emissions just as the PV solar glass instantly starts generating pollution free energy to run the car which is the Tesla mission and why most people buy EV's like Tesla.

Rocky_H | 30 november 2016

I do see that coming up often where people are claiming Musk "specifically said" certain things, but if you look at the Tweets they are referencing, it's generally things other people have said to him, and he gives some kind of non-commital half answer. See the following:
"We will probably offer that as an option."
"Now wouldn't that be interesting."

dyefrog | 30 november 2016

"For the many Tesla buyers asking for the solar PV roof, the payback is immediate,"
Payback, as in a snails pace. ROI measured in decades.

topher | 30 november 2016

Ah, dyefrog, you are so grossly underestimating the value of a poser badge.

Thank you kindly.

EaglesPDX | 30 november 2016

@dyegrog "Payback, as in a snails pace."

Payback as no CHG power...which is the "payback" for the Tesla or any EV for most buyers.

dyefrog | 1 december 2016

Didn't say there wasn't any payback, just that the amount of generated electricity was very little on average, especially compared to the total used. You'd make a bigger impact on the planet if you shut off the water when brushing your teeth. My opinion, not necessarily endorsed by this forum.

andy.connor.e | 1 december 2016

My original statement of the topic of a glass solar roof for Model 3, seems to be discarded by supposed statements that Elon said there would be a solar roof.

If you are going to disagree with me by arguing the aspect of efficiency, then i will not focus on that. Solar is not inefficient. The point i was trying to make is that the power generated by the solar roof will not be significant enough for the amount of energy used each day. Some of you are saying 2-5% of the energy per year. How is that worth it? Less than 10% of the energy for an unbelievably innovated technological implication of solar into the roof of a car. The payout is not worth the investment was basically my entire point.

I think you are all overlooking the rational practicality of this technological implementation. I dont think you are really putting it into your own perspective and thinking about how practical of $ invested/installation vs $ payout from solar charging. Dont get so caught up in statements and speculation. Make a rational prediction, but all in all, everyone is wrong until the full M3 release.

EaglesPDX | 2 december 2016

@dyefrog "Didn't say there wasn't any payback, just that the amount of generated electricity was very little on average"

Most would consider 3-5% substantial. But the reason solar glass is so popular is that it fits the DNA of the car and why people are buying it in the first place.

Tiebreaker | 2 december 2016

How in the world the 2% claimed become 3-5%?

Tiebreaker | 2 december 2016

How in the world the 2% claimed by Eagles become 3-5%?

SamO | 2 december 2016

5% when you start in the east and drive west, keeping the sun always at a 90% angle.

A quasi-perpetual charging car.

Darn Pacific Ocean always gets in the way.

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

@Tiebreaker "How in the world the 2% claimed become 3-5%?"

Math and facts on solar PV glass. Before Tesla got into the solar glass business, Musk was discouraging the idea of solar glass saying it would only provide 2% of the power for Tesla car. So that is the low end, someone discouraging solar glass and offering worst case number. Several people did the math on current glass roof area, efficiency of solar glass and came up with 5kWh.

So worst case to best care, 2-5% of the car's power.

Since Tesla is no promoting the sola glass on the car, you will likely see the 5% number when the solar glass option is priced.

SamO | 3 december 2016

2% power capable in the "lab."
Real world less than half.
Facts are fun.

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

Correction to above "Tesla is NOW promoting SOLAR glass on the car".

SamO | 3 december 2016

With the deployable solar array, perpetual motion can be achieved.

Praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I've been touched by his noodly appendage.

akgolf | 3 december 2016

@Trumpster - "Correction to above "Tesla is NOW promoting SOLAR glass on the car"."

Chuckle....Really they're promoting it? Can you point me to the ad or reference to that option on their site where they promote it? You're never going to graduate from TrimpU with stuff like this.

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

@jsimpsonalaska "Really they're promoting it [solar glass]?

It was Tesla's latest big promotion, the solar glass roof. With 500,000 cars on order, Tesla may need the 500,000 square meters of solar glass sales to reduce the production costs of the solar for cars and homes.

akgolf | 3 december 2016

And you're going to show us the link where they're actively promoting this correct?

Crickets....

topher | 3 december 2016

"5% when you start in the east and drive west, keeping the sun always at a 90% angle."

So... driving *800* MPH?

Thank you kindly.

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

@topher ""5% when you start in the east and drive west, keeping the sun always at a 90% angle."

Just park facing North as the slope of the roof towards the back of the car facing South would probably get you more than 5% on sunny day in the ski resort parking lot.

My car will sit outside at exactly that position and no shade so I'll likely get more than the 5kWh average.

Gratifying that Tesla came around to the solar glass option so many buyers wanted.

Frank99 | 3 december 2016

Oh, lord, now it's up to "more than 5%". Another week, and E will have a solar roof on a car powering his entire house.

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

@Frank99 ". Another week, and E will have a solar roof on a car powering his entire house."

But Tesla might. Musk mentioned PV efficiency gains for the Tesla solar glass and overall PV efficiency has been going up roughly 7%/10 years. Doesn't sound like a lot but it adds up.

Tesla car roof will make a perfect PV panel with the slight angle and parked in open lots in full sunlight.

I'd guess the big demand for a PV roof from Tesla buyers is due to many already having made an investment in solar PV for their homes. Now that is matched up to Tesla being a major player in solar roof industry and further that Tesla's product is solar PV glass.

Tiebreaker | 3 december 2016

Mr. Fusion.

dyefrog | 3 december 2016

What big demand for a PV solar roof on a Tesla? 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot. This must be one of them. Would you define big demand as half of the 600,000 reservations?

EaglesPDX | 3 december 2016

"A recent survey of 1,419 of these plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) owners shows that 39% of owners currently have solar, and another 17% are considering going solar within the coming year."

SamO | 3 december 2016

I'm convinced 77% of Tesla owners would love a deployable solar shield.

I would. Perhaps something large you can inflate with solar cells impregnated?

That way you could gather enough energy to operate the car.

Otherwise 1% from the sunroof is hardly worth it.

Frank99 | 3 december 2016

Hey, if you're gonna have a deployable solar shield, you really ought to have it hooked into the collision avoidance system. If the car senses a collision is imminent, it deploys the shield so you can't see and don't tense up before the accident. Kind of a HHGG "peril sensitive sunglasses" concept...

Red Sage ca us | 3 december 2016

dyefrog: Somehow, I'm pretty sure that Tesla Motors would consider 20% interest in a solar powered clear vision vehicular roof as being 'big demand' and 5% interest as baseline minimal demand. Out of 600,000 Reservations for Model ☰, that would be as little as 30,000 Customers, and perhaps as many as 120,000. Something tells me it is highly unlikely that Tesla's current Customer base is quite so gullible as to expect such an option to be worthwhile.

Frank99: Nice to know my continual references to '42', Ford Prefect, and Zaphod Beeblebrox will not go unnoticed.

Badbot | 3 december 2016

Is the solar shield asteroid proof

Red Sage ca us | 3 december 2016

Badbot: Only when powered by Dilithium Crystals.

casun | 4 december 2016

my goodness. what a poorly written blog.

TeslaTap.com | 5 december 2016

Another dose of reality:

1) the 5 kW number has zero basis in fact - someone just tossed out that number. My in-depth engineering analysis showed you could get as much as 767 Wh in a full day of sun on average in Florida - and a lot less in most other parts of the country. This assumes no shade and it is in the sun for the entire time sun is available.

Now for the good news - that full day of solar charging in Florida should get you 2 extra miles of range! For a P100D's 315 mile range, that's a 0.6% extra range. Not even 2% everyone seems to imagine. Ok, perhaps I should use a S60 at 210 miles of range. That comes in at 0.95% range improvement.

2) A deployable sunroof is one of the more crazy ideas (I like Elon's wry sense of humor). For 5 kW of power, in the best of cases you'd need something more than 6 times the size of the roof. I guess if you eliminate all cargo and rear passenger space, add $20K in costs for solar panels and hydraulics, and take up 4 parking spaces, it might work as long as you don't drive anywhere. Your non-solar range would drop due to the extra weight of this monstrosity.

Red Sage ca us | 5 december 2016

Inside EVs -- Volvo Debuts World’s Most Useless Solar Canopy Plug-In Vehicle Charger
http://insideevs.com/volvo-debuts-worlds-most-useless-solar-canopy-plug-...

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