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Question about supercharging 40kwh

Question about supercharging 40kwh

I have a 40 kWh Tesla. Does anyone know, if I will be able to charge my model s at the supercharging station for a fee after January 15th?

carlk | 12 januari 2017

Interesting question. Tesla may not even remember there are still 40kwh around but maybe it's time to give you guys a reprieve.

Mathew98 | 12 januari 2017

If it weren't possible ever before, why would it be possible after?

martin | 13 januari 2017

Because before there was only "free" ("paid up front) supercharging?

tes-s | 13 januari 2017

My guess is no. They did not allow purchase of unlimited supercharging before, so probably won't allow purchase of supercharging now...without upgrading to a 60.

p.c.mcavoy | 13 januari 2017

Contact Tesla directly and ask them. Everyone else here is just guessing.

Mathew98 | 13 januari 2017

Would it make sense for Tesla to lose $11.5k in unlocking the S60 battery to grant S40 owners supercharging access?

Silver2K | 13 januari 2017

Does a 40 even have the supercharging hardware?
The answer is no, because they didn't even offer the option of supercharging on those cars.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/no-supercharging-for-40kwh.7062/

Mathew98 | 13 januari 2017

Not true. S40's are software limited S60's. It's similar to S60's of today (which are s/w limited S75's). Each S40 needs to pay $11K for upgrade to S60 and then another 2500 for enabling supercharging access.

It might be better off getting a CPO S60 instead...

Silver2K | 13 januari 2017

correction: they had the hardware but never the option to supercharge

http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s/products/enable-supercha...

Silver2K | 13 januari 2017

Mathew98 | January 13, 2017
Not true. S40's are software limited S60's. It's similar to S60's of today (which are s/w limited S75's). Each S40 needs to pay $11K for upgrade to S60 and then another 2500 for enabling supercharging access.
It might be better off getting a CPO S60 instead.
------------------

you're right, my mistake :)

DonS | 13 januari 2017

Tesla marketed the S40 to show a low entry price, but they made little, if any, profit from that version, hoping customers would eventually pony up to unlock the 60. While the hardware could allow Supercharging on an S40, would you do it if you were trying to run a profitable business?

SamO | 13 januari 2017

There
Aint
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch

TANSTAAFL

rxlawdude | 13 januari 2017

@SamO Heinlein. +1

Galve2000 | 13 januari 2017

My guess is you will have to pay to unlock the feature, I forget the cost exactly but roughly $13,000 quoted above sounds right.

I would expect such a vehicle to be grandfathered into the "unlimited" supercharging and mot have to deal with the pricing, except for idle fees of $0.40/min once charging is complete.

unfortunately once you unlock the fill 60 kW, charging to 100% all the time will be "not the best idea" in terms of battery health and longevity.

Haggy | 13 januari 2017

The website literally says "If your Tesla was ordered by January 15, 2017, it comes with free Supercharger access for the life of the car. You will not pay for Supercharger use but idle fees may be assessed if your vehicle remains connected to a Supercharger after the charge session is complete."

We know it's not true, but if Tesla says it is, it must be true. More importantly, it was announced all along that Supercharging for the Model 3 wouldn't be free, and if the new plan is designed for those who didn't pay a penny for supercharger enabling, it wouldn't be inconsistent to offer it to those with 40kWh and 60kWh batteries who didn't pay for unlimited. They lost out on three years worth of use already, and would have to pay as much as everybody else to use it piecemeal. Tesla might even end up offering an unlimited option for new cars as they did in the past, which would still mean that the new pricing structure is for those who didn't pay a penny for supercharger enabling.

Anybody with a 40 who got this capability and decided to use it exclusively would end up paying as much as those who bought the unlimited option with average driving, given enough years.

There are those who argued in the past that those who had older 60s should get supercharging now that it's free, since they paid just as much or more for their cars. The counterargument was that others had to pay for unlimited supercharging who bought cars when they did. But in this case, we aren't talking about giving anybody unlimited supercharging but "pay as you go."

Also, the decision not to offer supercharging to those with 40s was a decision that Tesla could have reversed at any time, should they have decided to charge the same fee for supercharger enabling that they charge for 60s. There's no business reason not to do it. There was when the car came out, but that was to steer people away from the 40. That argument is no longer relevant.

Tesla should be consistent and offer pay-as-you-go charging to anybody who didn't pay for unlimited, either directly or as part of the price of the car.

DonS | 13 januari 2017

Pay-as-you-go only pays for the Supercharger site and electricity. The Supercharging hardware in vehicles with a 40 kWh battery was not included in the original purchase price. It is bundled in the 40 to 60 upgrade cost.

An Easter Egg for 40 owners risks ticking off people who stretched to a 60 for the Supercharging capability. Consistent can also be defined as sticking to the original purchase conditions.

Haggy | 13 januari 2017

It wouldn't be sticking it to anybody. People who upgraded now have 60s and people who didn't will continue to have 40s. Starting to sell new 60s with free supercharging didn't stick it to previous owners. It was a change in policy that meant some people got something you didn't at no extra price. It doesn't hurt you one bit if they start charging 40 owners to use supercharging. If anything it helps because it brings up the residual value of a 40, which in turn is good for the price of a 60.

HenryT2 | 14 januari 2017

It might be a "bad business decision" to risk upsetting 60 owners who bought their unlimited supercharger access earlier, but there are 2 other factors to consider.

First, it's kind of a "bad business decision" to introduce a P85D and autopilot suddenly making the p85 and cars without autopilot drop precipitously in value overnight. Same with the P100D and AP 2.0. I'm not sure that sour grapes of early purchases should figure too much into new capabilities (e.g. "pay as you go" supercharging).

Second, 40 owners put down their deposits before the first Model S even rolled off the line. We are among the original early supporters of the company. Even though it seems ridiculous now, at the time, our $5000 deposits could actually have disappeared into the coffers of a failed company before it even got one car on the road. I'm not sure that a little love for us is entirely inappropriate.

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

HenryT2

The p85/p85+ w/o Autopilot have maintained their value very well.

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

I think tesla should just activate them for nothing. The initial cost was for paying for the free electrons upfront. If you're now paying for the electrons, then SC hardware should always be active without a cost.

Do you have to activate anything in an ICE to go to gas stations away from you home? nope.

Tesla has created a gas station type environment, so there shouldn't be a charge for SC hardware any longer

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

@Silver - so Tesla should allow non-Tesla vehicles to charge also? Just pay for the electrons?

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

I'm talking about Tesla vehicles only

people that activated their 60's will continue to get free SC and the 40's activated for free will pay for their SC use.

You can look at the glass half full or half empty, same difference.

Mathew98 | 14 januari 2017

Well, if you run a business, would you forgive the $13,000 bill your client owes you just to collect 10 bucks a month going forward?

If so, can I run a tap on your account?

Mathew98 | 14 januari 2017

And it costs you $9.75 in material to collect $10 each month.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

Why Tesla vehicles only? What is the difference between a 40 and a BMW?

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

The 2500 was for upfront payment for electrons. They don't need upfront electron cost any longer, because they charge for it now. I can assure you the SC hardware was paid for when someone bought a 40. If it's in the car, you paid for it, nothing is free

It would be a great move for Tesla to unlock them. That's exactly why you don't see 40's being sold as CPO's. They software unlock the cars to allow free SC (included in price).

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

tes-s | January 14, 2017
Why Tesla vehicles only? What is the difference between a 40 and a BMW?
--------------

BMW does not have the proper hardware

TesMD | 14 januari 2017

No, the $2500 cost was to built the SC infrastructure, not so much for electrons. If it was for electrons, Tesla would have just done it as pay per use and people who don't use SC that much would have gone with that option.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

In addition to the $2500 for supercharging option, the price of supercharger-enabled cars included the cost of the hardware and paid for the R&D and other costs related to superchargers.

40s - and cars from other manufacturers - do not include that. When one upgrades a 40 to a 60, that is part of what the upgrade pays for.

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

TesMD | January 14, 2017
No, the $2500 cost was to built the SC infrastructure, not so much for electrons. If it was for electrons, Tesla would have just done it as pay per use and people who don't use SC that much would have gone with that option.
------------------------------------
most viewed it as paying up front for electrons, the infrastructure is built on the 25%+ profit margin.

tes-s

the hardware is in the car, it's paid for already by the owner of the 40, nothing is free. tesla at that point needed every penny it can get and was not going to give away any hardware.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

No, the 40 owner did not pay for it, just like they did not pay for the 20kW of battery that is also software locked. If they want a 60 - larger battery and supercharger-capable, there is a price for that. $2500 supercharging is on top of that.

Silver2K | 14 januari 2017

it's not a line item, but you paid for it.

it's like me building a PC and adding a gaming video card but locked use of it and not charge the customer and hope they pay for it later on?

you really think I put money out of my pocket and not charged for that piece of hardware in the PC?

SamO | 14 januari 2017

"It's easier to reason by analogy and if you tried to reason from first principles all the time, you wouldn't be able to get through your day, but when you're trying to do something new and complicated, that is the way to do it because analogies are not necessarily perfect and they're relying on things that have already occurred, so, if you're trying to make something new then it's not a great way to go." - Elon Musk

djmichaelmayhem | 14 januari 2017

There was a short time where Tesla was selling the 40's and the purchaser could opt in for the supercharger access at time of build. A friend of mine has one of these rare 40's. His car does not charge faster than 50KWH and I am guessing because of the size of the pack. from dead to full takes about 50 min witch is the same amount of time my P85D takes.

So, did you opt in for the $2500 Supercharging option? if not, no you will have to upgrade the vehicle. How that works, I am not sure because there is different hardware needed in order to use the supercharger.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

Fine, they paid for the supercharger hardware and they paid for the extra 20kW of batteries. If they want to unlock the supercharger hardware and the 20kW of batteries, I think the charge is $9,500 - now they have a 60. That is supercharger-capable. If they want to enable supercharging, it is an additional $2,500.

If they do that before 1/15, the $2,500 will buy lifetime-included supercharging. After January 15, it will buy 400kWh per year and ability to pay-as-you-go.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

@mychol - Never heard of a 40 that could supercharge, or use a CHAdeMO adapter. Are you sure?

Mathew98 | 14 januari 2017

Free lifetime supercharging is applicable to all S40s whenever the owners decide to unlock for $11K and $2.5k for SC access. They bought their cars in 2013. There are no SC limitations for these long time owners.

djmichaelmayhem | 14 januari 2017

@tes-s

Yes, I am positive, been in that car when plugged in at a Supercharger. Tesla told my friend that he has 1 of around 20 MS 40's they opted in before they changed the policy.

I was surprised and asked him about it.

But there are a small amount out there that can.

tes-s | 14 januari 2017

I wonder why it only charges at 50kW since it is a 60 battery.

Collector's item - probably worth a fortune.