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The era of Alternative Facts

The era of Alternative Facts

Our children will be educated in a World where there is no truth and lies but Facts and Alternative facts.
On a scientific stand point, facts are scientifically proven, but from a political view, alternative facts are things you say to make other believe your point of view, without actually saying the truth.

So on Trump's presidency, it will become globally allowed to lie as long as you say they are alternative facts.
This is what happens when faith, politics and absence of scientific background becomes POTUS.

Dramsey | 24 januari 2017

We've had eight years of "alternative facts":

-- If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan. Nobody will take that from you, period.
-- The Benghazi riots were caused by this guy's incendiary video.
-- Bowe Bergdahl was a "hero" who "served with distinction."
-- Obama's claim that more young black men "languish in prisons" than attend colleges and universities.
-- "The Capitol Hill janitors just got a pay cut."
-- "Republicans have filibustered 500 pieces of legislation."
-- "We have fired a whole bunch of people who are in charge of these VA facilities."
-- Secretly shipping pallettes of cash to Iran in the dead of night wasn't a payment for hostages.

Et cetera so on and such forth.

Obama and Trump dissemble with the practiced ease of pathological liars. The difference is the media's actually trying to fact-check Trump, whereas they were too busy feeling tingles up their legs to do anything but roll over for belly scratches with the Obama administration.

Captain_Zap | 24 januari 2017

In quotes but no references. Another Alternative Fact.

SamO | 24 januari 2017

+1 @CZ

SCCRENDO | 24 januari 2017

@CZ +1

finman100 | 24 januari 2017

Stupid people will continue to be stupid it appears. with a stupid leader. nice. FT2016.

Silver2K | 24 januari 2017

Dramsey

You have so many negatives, I almost feed bad giving you a -1.

ibord7 | 24 januari 2017

i'll give you a +1

hcwhy | 24 januari 2017

The "information age" has sadly become the "misinformation age". It's difficult and unwise to believe anything you see or hear from almost any source. It seems as if there's two alternate realities. The followers of each reality have been successfully brainwashed to the point where they see the other reality as ignorant, corrupt, and dangerous..The sad part is both sides might be right about that.

RedShift | 24 januari 2017

The devices will destroy us all, before skynet does.

brando | 24 januari 2017

Finding the truth? No easy task. You probably don't know most of what is in the below video about Russia.

7HwvFyMg7A

Dofpic | 25 januari 2017

I have seen obfuscation of facts back to the 1970's. It has been used effectively by the media for years on 60 minutes, Dateline, 20-20 ETC. Nothing new going on for years. Unfortunately Dramsey facts are "true".

mcdonalk | 25 januari 2017

On a related subject ... the ACA is the single action that government has taken that has significantly improved the quality of my life. Without it, as a retiree who is too young for Medicare, I would not be able to obtain insurance due to a pre-existing condition (which has not reoccurred in the past 25 years), and it protects me from my greatest fear: medical bankruptcy. To me, the ACA means freedom; it enabled me to retire at age 60 and pursue an alternate self-employed avocation. AZ has the highest premiums in the country. We each pay about $1200/mo for health insurance and do not qualify for a subsidy. This sounds like a lot, but it's a lot better than the $3600/mo my wife alone was quoted before the ACA went into effect.

I'll miss the ACA and Obama and his adult perspective, and his scandal-free administration. And his inspiring family.

stevenmaifert | 25 januari 2017

Obama was free of personal scandal (as far as we know), but to say he had a scandal-free administration is an alternative fact. Fast and Furious, IRS targeting of conservative organizations, and Benghazi were scandals.

SCCRENDO | 25 januari 2017

@Mcdonalk. It's a race to see how quick the new regime will take to screw up your insurance.

johndoeeyed | 25 januari 2017

The modern thought process consists of:
My opinion is the truth simply because it is my opinion.
My opinion does not need to have any evidence to support it.
If my opinion is challenged, it is just so unfair, and I shall respond with insults and censorship.

tstolz | 25 januari 2017

Interestingly, I was taught that facts can change as we gain insight. That is what science does. Alternate facts are about wishful thinking ... and both left and right are both guilty of that.

neilhamrin | 25 januari 2017

mcdonalk
Thanks for speaking up. Hope to be wrong but am afraid you are screwed. Sorry about that. I have apologized to my children and grandchildren for the example set by the 45th president.

reed_lewis | 25 januari 2017

@stevenmaifert All of those 'scandals' were republican creations. Fast and Furious was nothing much. The IRS targeted both conservative and liberal groups to prove they were the type of organization that they said they were. Benghazi was the Republican's wet dream in that they held more hearings about it, but basically they all came to the same conclusion which is that while four people died, there was nothing that could be done about it.

So bringing up Republican created controversies is BS.

Dramsey | 25 januari 2017

Cap, I didn't provide references because it never occurred to me that people hadn't heard of every one of these. I mean, seriously: you need a cite for "If you like your health care plan..."? Really? OK, here's Politifact's "Lie of the Year":

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-...

Perhaps you've also forgotten Jonathan Gruber's assertions that a "lack of transparency" and "the stupidity of the American people" were required to get the ACA passed:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/223578-obamacare-architect-lack-of-...

So! Carrying on!

-- "The Benghazi riots were caused by this guy's incendiary video."

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/10/benghazi-timeline/

Money quote: "But, at this point, we do know that Obama and others in the administration were quick to cite the anti-Muslim video as the underlying cause for the attack in Benghazi that killed four U.S. diplomats, including U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens. And they were slow to acknowledge it was a premeditated terrorist attack, and they downplayed reports that it might have been."

-- Bowe Bergdahl was a "hero" who "served with distinction."

http://patriotsandtyrants.org/1-29-15-trawl_v.html

-- Obama's claim that more young black men "languish in prisons" than attend colleges and universities.

Even NPR couldn't swallow that:

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/23/178601467/are-there-really-more-black-men-...

-- "The Capitol Hill janitors just got a pay cut."

Actually, they didn't:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/sequester-spin-ob...

-- "Republicans have filibustered 500 pieces of legislation."

Four Pinocchios:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/05/09/four-pino...

-- "We have fired a whole bunch of people who are in charge of these VA facilities."

Like the Post says, "facts don't support the claim.":

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/12/obamas-cl...

-- "Secretly shipping pallettes of cash to Iran in the dead of night wasn't a payment for hostages."

The right-wing outfit CNN reported on this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-400-million-c...

So! Far from being "alternative facts", everything I said was publicly reported on and easily verifiable.

Captain_Zap | 25 januari 2017

I read the first line and saw that it was bunk. That health care plan never had the opportunity to happen so no such claims that it was a lie or an "alternative fact" could be made. The gang of "R" blocked every attempt at Universal Healthcare and a butchered replacement dubbed "Obamacare" by the pundits was the result. No claims could be made about the truthiness of something that never came to exist. After reading the first one I didn't bother to continue. I knew the rest would be just as ridiculous.

SamO | 25 januari 2017

Don't you mean Heritage Foundation's Romney-care?

El Mirio | 26 januari 2017

George Orwell's book "1984" sold out on Amazon, apparently folks are correlating "alternative facts" with "doulbethink".

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/316338-1984-sells-out-o...

stevenmaifert | 26 januari 2017

@reed_lewis - People died as a result of the botched Fast and Furious gun walking. Attorney General Holder was held in contempt of Congress for his refusal to turn over related documents to the Congressional oversight committee exercising their lawful duties. In 2013, then Acting Director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS, Lois Lerner, apologized to a room of tax lawyers for the IRS's inappropriate targeting of conservative political groups. Actions that can be traced back to the Democrats unhappiness with the Supreme Court's decision in the Citizens United case. Administration officials, including the Secretary of State and Susan Rice, continued to push a narrative that the Benghazi attack was provoked by a video when they knew days earlier that it was a planned terrorist attack. Admitting the truth would be damaging to Pres. Obama's 2012 re-election campaign. Those are real facts, real scandals and not Republican creations.

SO | 26 januari 2017

Dramsey - I'll take Obama's "alternative facts" any day.

rxlawdude | 26 januari 2017

@steven - Yeah, and whitewater was also "not [a] Republican creation." More to the point, when Pelosi became Speaker in January 2007, the FIRST THING she said was that there would be no investigation into the Bush Administration's lying us into war, nor would there be any move towards impeaching W. Because "it would be a distraction to our NATION."

If only the GOP cared about our nation rather than raw party power. Watch these partisans crash up their toys. Unfortunately, those toys are our country.

FactDoc | 26 januari 2017

But in the general opinion, Obama had a reputation or an honest man, Trump is more seen as a crooked

brando | 7 maart 2017

Keep your doctor? How many know a doctor they want to keep? When did you ever get to go find any doctor you wanted? Doesn't your insurance company have to approve of the doctors you want?
Just how do you find and pick a good doctor? Not so easy, I suspect.

363 tons of US$100 bills to Iraq via Paul Bremmer. Where did it go?

How many class A steel buildings have collapsed? That would be three.

Bwalters613 | 8 maart 2017

A Tesla forum for political idiocy...too funny. Plus/minus me all you want,not going to waste any more time on this thread. Just can't believe it is actually here. So Silly.

massimob30 | 8 maart 2017

Tesla may need to add a Dr. Seuss mode, where cartoons appear on the touchscreen, sad violin music floods the interior, and Kleenex is automatically dispensed from the dashboard.

Seriously, you people whine like little children. We had an election, get over it.

SCCRENDO | 8 maart 2017

@massimo. We had an election. And watching the country being run by an incompetent and dangerous clown is hard to get over. The congress is likely not much better but time will tell.

rxlawdude | 8 maart 2017

@massimob30, I would love to see your Internet trolling posts from 2009-2016.

Haggy | 8 maart 2017

"Keep your doctor? How many know a doctor they want to keep? "

Those Democrats are such liars. My doctor insisted he had the right to retire so how could they say I could keep my doctor. And what if I died? I certainly wouldn't be able to keep my doctor then. LIES!!!

Remnant | 11 maart 2017

@Bwalters613 (March 8, 2017)

<< A Tesla forum for political idiocy...too funny. ... Just can't believe it is actually here. So Silly. >>

Well said.

A mob of uncouth and ignorant juveniles bullying each other in some sleazy, God forsaken slum.

Disbelief and disdain are, indeed, sentiments to be expected to arise from any attempts to engage them.

brajamtho | 11 maart 2017

Mcdonalk

Scandal free? BS.

rxlawdude | 11 maart 2017

@brajamtho - Let's see: Fast and Furious and Benghazi. The latter totally debunked by multiple witch hunts by Issa and the GOP. The former merely a program carried forward from the W administration. All in 8 years.

Contrast: An unconstitutional executive order or two, smoldering Russiagate, All in 50 DAYS.

Yeah. I miss those scandal filled days of the Obama administration compared to the Orange-a-tan.

brando | 13 maart 2017

Middle East Wars since 2002, Iraq started on lies, illegal as well, drone murders of mostly innocent, no warrants let alone due process, 8,500,000 foreclosures, CIA continues drug smuggling (Escobar does 15 tons/day with help of CIA so writes his son in latest book). We don't even count number of brown skins killed, as any potential Muslim death is meaningless to US. About 30 wars since WWII costing near $14 trillion - what for? Destruction of most US manufacturing, credit card rates up to 29%, saving rates near 1%. Some people over 40 still paying student loans.
Patriot Act, NDAA, NSA data collection of all electronic (including credit card transactions) communications.

Don't think about any of this, get distracted by scandals or celebs or sports.

Greatest, wealthiest empire the planet has ever seen and we can no longer afford to educate our kids or provide healthcare. Southern Italy poverty equals US (North Italy better off) Italy spend 7% GDP on healthcare US spends 17% and Italians live longer.

Remnant | 13 maart 2017

@Captain_Zap (January 24, 2017)

<< In quotes but no references. Another Alternative Fact. >>

You are presumed to be an educated adult, whether that's true or not, so you can do some searches on key words yourself.

Unfortunately, links likely to enlighten the extreme left sickos on our threads would have to be in the thousands. A daunting task, for most of the more reasonable posters.

SCCRENDO | 13 maart 2017

@Remnant. You should talk. I haven't seen you link anything of substance yet and and seem unable to comprehend much that we link for you. I reckon the Captain has forgotten more than you will ever know.

RedPillSucks | 13 maart 2017

I find it fascinating how people were bent out of shape about Benghazi, but no one points out that the republican led congress cut the embassy security budget prior to the incident at the Benghazi embassy. In addition, no one seemed to care that many such incidents occurred before Benghazi in prior administrations (both republican and democratic) without ANY hearings, etc.

Just about every one of his contentions just seem like twisted BS. I don't see how anyone can equate Obamas political wranglings or miss-steps with what Trump is doing now. Trump is at a whole other level.

Dramsey | 13 maart 2017

I hadn't heard that the GOP congress had cut the Benghazi security budget, so I did some Googling. Here's what the Washington Post had to say:

"Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) suggested there was not enough security in Benghazi because Republicans had cut the budget for embassy security funding. But this claim was not credible and highly partisan. Democrats had also short-changed the State Department budget (compared to presidential requests), but funding for embassy security generally had increased significantly in recent years. Moreover, over the course of many hearings into the matter, State Department officials had told Congress that a lack of funds was not an issue. Instead, security was hampered because of bureaucratic issues and management failures."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/21/fact-chec...

Politifact notes:

"While it's true that Congress did not fully fund embassy security requests from the Obama administration in recent years, funding for embassy security is actually up from 2008, and up dramatically since before 9/11."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/may/16/fact-checkin...

Of course, the Daily Kos agrees with you:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/22/1437642/-Not-Hillary-Benghazi-w...

...but some people say they're biased, so I dunno.

Remnant | 14 maart 2017

@SCCRENDO (March 13, 2017)

<< @Remnant. You should talk. I haven't seen you link anything of substance yet ... >>

OK, @ALLCAPS guy, lost soul, here is you first assignment. It's called "The Ten Commandments". Learn it thoroughly and pay special attention to the 9th ("You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"). My next post to you will contain your second assignment.

Check:
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-ten-commandments/

J.T. | 14 maart 2017

@SCCRENDO>>>You should talk. I haven't seen you link anything of substance yet

Haven't you noticed that the only links you consider substantive are the ones that support YOUR position?

SCCRENDO | 14 maart 2017

@Remnant. So when are you going to start learning the tren commandments??? Perhaps you can teach them to your president.
@JT. Wouldn't that be why most of us take our positions? We follow positions that show substantive links not those that we make up as we go along like some others here.

SCCRENDO | 14 maart 2017

@Remnant. "Ten" not "Tren"

Homebrook | 18 maart 2017

The truth is that one's underlying epistemology, based on their fundamental presuppositions determine the rules of evidence. So the rules of evidence, based on one's presuppositions determine what a person decides is true.

Perfect examples of the above are "Obama had a reputation or an honest man, Trump is more seen as a crooked." or "I'll take Obama's "alternative facts" any day." Both statements are either taken as the golden truth, or patently absurd, depending on where you are coming from (your presuppositions.)

So the real question is which set of presuppositions are true, because everything else falls out from that. Whose presuppositions can best explain reality? That is the only helpful question to consider in these kinds of discussions. Anything else is a complete waste of time with people simply sitting and taking pop shots at each other, always missing, ad infinitum. It is utterly predicable and becomes both wearying and boring.

carlgo2 | 18 maart 2017

The fairest judge is time, and a lot of if. It takes two hundred years or more for a judgement free from contemporary ideology and passions.

In the UK they argued about King Richard of the Parking Lot for hundreds of years and he was widely thought of as a murderous degenerate. Now, especially since he seems to have been a very handsome and brave king, people don't think he was a horrid person and that likely the stories of his murderous ways was merely Fake News of the day.

SCCRENDO | 18 maart 2017

@Homebrook. You are going to have people who have agendas on both sides of a question. However many of us and I include myself here have no agenda. I seek the truth. At one point in my life I was conservative. The more I have learnt and the more I have experienced have moulded my opinions and have learnt that most conservative opinions have fact deficiencies. Most of their opinions get adapted by their personal economics. I read opinions from all sides. When it comes to science I look at the data. And I believe it applies to most of us.

I have been active on the climate science discusssions. About a year ago i knew about as much as most ignorant posters here. And I had no agenda. But I researched every statement made. And I now believe i have a fair degree of expertise and I know which side I am on.

@carlgo2. Nice words but meaningless. Are you coming back in 200 years to decide who was right and who was wrong.

Remnant | 19 maart 2017

@SCCRENDO (March 18, 2017)

<< Are you coming back in 200 years to decide who was right and who was wrong[?] >>

You make it sound absurd, but the real point of @carlgo2's post is the time scale, which handily disposes of the alarmist arguments of the AGW zealots and which your post ignores.

Here is your next assignment:
https://mises.org/system/tdf/thelaw.pdf?file=1&type=document

Homebrook | 19 maart 2017

@SCCRENDO I hate to break it to you, but everyone has an agenda. You cannot exist without an agenda. They come from your presuppositions (i.e, what you believe to be true without the need, or possibility, of proof, the basis of your worldview). Your "agenda" emerges from your worldview.

topher | 19 maart 2017

@Remnant:

Ninth commandment is:
“Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

Exodus 34:26

Thank you kindly.

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