Forums

So there *is* an instrument panel in the Model 3!

So there *is* an instrument panel in the Model 3!

I don't see how I could possibly be the first to notice this but there _is_ an instrument panel in the Model 3. How do I know? Because at least 2 different Tesla engineers say so on camera on at least 3 separate occasions. (Remember the engineers that worked on the car are the ones that gave the test drives at the first reveal.)

So where is it? It's the the black strip that runs the full width of the dashboard right in front of the air vent gap and right behind the white dash trim. (On the matte black Model 3 the trim piece is wood not white.) So, yes, it's right there in plain sight. OK the location is a guess but I'm pretty sure that's it (see below).

I was thinking about the puzzle of the Model 3 not having an instrument cluster so I watched some of the reveal test drive videos on Youtube hoping that one of the engineers would say something that was a clue. And they did.

Evidence:

- https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=r2ozan7SuDQ&t=29s

At 0:29 in the video the engineer says: "So we pushed the I.P. as far forward as we possibly can..." I.P. stands for Instrument Panel. And that would be a really funny thing to say if the car didn't have an instrument panel, don't you think? The engineer also gestures toward it with his hands.

But maybe it was just a mistake...

- https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=xtqbYNCAG_0&t=2m5s

At 2:05 the same engineer says on a different test drive: "So the I.P. is pushed nice and low here. It's pushed all the way forward..." The engineer again gestures to it.

But maybe "I.P" doesn't mean what we think it does...

- https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=VZ0kAwUq9DM&t=1m48s

At 1:48 a different engineer talks about the 15 inch screen and says: "...in landscape mode so that both myself and the passenger can access the screen. All the information is here." As he's saying this he's gesturing to the screen. Then he goes on to say: "The I.P.-- the instrument panel-- is down lower..." When he says this where he's gesturing changes. He no longer seems to point to the screen but to something else. This sounds to me as if he's saying the instrument panel is lower than the screen (which implies that they're not the same).

What else?

The part of the dashboard where that strip is located is angled. And the angle is just right to intersect your eyeballs if you were to draw a perpendicular line from it.

But, you say, the top of the steering wheel would partially block your view of the instrument strip! It sure would. Except Tesla removed the top part of the steering wheel on the Model 3 and that's why! Look at the concept sketch they sent you.

Funky sci-fi looking steering wheel? Check. Instrument panel that blends into the car so well you don't know it's there when you're looking right at it? Check. Very futuristic, right? Boom. There's your spaceship. No, it's not a HUD but it's better than nothing.

No, I can't be 100% certain. But that's what I have.

Carl

- https://www.youtube .com/watch?v=mAjfsl5J6xQ

This video is also interesting but only because the guests are really, really drunk. The look on the engineer's face is priceless. You can almost hear him thinking "God, this guy's not going to throw up on me, is he?"

citizenleroy | 29 maart 2017

Great work and write-up Carl! Thank you!!

didier.puzenat | 29 maart 2017

The steering wheel will not block the view of the IP if the IP is on the steering wheel. And since the car knows the angle of the steering wheel the information displayed by the IP can keep the correct orientation.

However what is so useful on a IP for an electric car, the speed of the motor(s), the temperature of the motor(s), the temperature of the cooling fluids ? My actual car has a 6 inches Tomtom GPS in the middle of the dashboard with the map, the real speed and the road speed limit, the current time and the time of arrival, what else would I need ? So the IP of my actual car is useless for me. BTW my wife and the children are also interested by the map and time, and even speed, so the center of the dashboard makes sense.

SoFlaModel3 | 29 maart 2017

Wow .... pretty nice detective work!

My only worry on the theory is that in the same first video where he says we pushed the IP forward, the engineer also says everything you need is here on one display.

dd.micsol | 29 maart 2017

This is exactly why I'll be getting a 500.00 HUD. I want to know it's there.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

dd.micsol:
"This is exactly why I'll be getting a 500.00 HUD. I want to know it's there."

Well, I think you'd know it's there if it were turned on. Maybe the electronics for it weren't ready at the time of the reveal. But you'd also want it to be unobtrusive for those times when it's turned off. I.e., when the car's in fully autonomous mode you need a distracting instrument panel.

Carl

Efontana | 29 maart 2017

Don't know. Instrument panel and dashboard are close synonyms.
Expect tour guides were trained.
First says "IP" to not mislead.
Second says "instrument panel" as a substitute for "dashboard."

May have nixed it in the year since these drives for Jobs reasons "people adapt."

Hard to say.

Ehninger1212 | 29 maart 2017

I am pretty sure they are talking specifically about the ONE central screen. They even blatantly say "all the information here" gesturing towards the ONE screen. further more, this was before pencils down on design. Even if they are talking about another screen, display, projection, hologram, fairy dust, somewhere on the dash it could have been scrapped in favor of less complicated manufacturing process.

I do not see how no one thinks of this as "futuristic" and "space ship" like. Honestly i prefer this single display, everything in one spot, have you seen the controls in an audi A4 for example?! I could not even quickly figure how to turn the radio volume down there is so many buttons. Minimal use of items, materials and objects is a beautiful thing. Does anybody know just how many pedals a 1950 chevy truck has? 5.

My point is we have advanced significantly in the automotive world, but maybe not so much in the user ability, i think the Model 3 has made such a huge leap its a bit of a "culture shock".

Seriously, i am totally in love with the model 3 and i haven't even seen it in person yet, i have not been this excited for any product in my life.

KP in NPT | 29 maart 2017

That is looking like a definite possibility - and was mentioned before. But let's hope this is a bad rendering and it looks less 80s.

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-instrument-cluster-mockup-surfaces/

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

Efontana:
"Don't know. Instrument panel and dashboard are close synonyms."

I don't think think they are at all synonymous.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

Ehninger1212:
"I am pretty sure they are talking specifically about the ONE central screen."

Maybe. But if you look a the 3rd video again starting at 1:47 the engineer says

- "...in landscape mode so that both myself and the passenger can access the screen. All the information is here."

As he's saying this he's gesturing to the screen.

The he goes on to say

- "The I.P.-- the instrument panel-- is down lower..."

When he says this where he's gesturing changes. He no longer seems to point to the screen but to something else. So to me it looks like he's saying the the instrument panel is down lower than the screen. That makes more sense to me because in all the videos they say the I.P. is pushed as far forward as possible. The screen _isn't_ pushed as far forward as possible. It's brought back toward the passengers on a stalk.

But I could definitely be wrong!

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

Ehninger1212:
"further more, this was before pencils down on design. Even if they are talking about another screen, display, projection, hologram, fairy dust, somewhere on the dash it could have been scrapped in favor of less complicated manufacturing process."

Of course they could have. But it really looks like the prototypes were pretty close to production and not a lot changed. If they made the kind of wholesale changes you're talking about they probably would've needed more of a beta process.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

KP:
"That is looking like a definite possibility - and was mentioned before. But let's hope this is a bad rendering and it looks less 80s."

Actually what was mentioned before was different. If you look closely at that mock up they have the display _in_ the air vent gap. I'm talking about the strip _in front_ of the air vent gap.

Carl

tstolz | 29 maart 2017

People do use words loosely ... I'm getting more fine by the day with everything on one screen and a clean look. The point of M3 is make manufacturing easy. This is easy! I do hope for a cool open-top steering wheel though :)

Ehninger1212 | 29 maart 2017

@carl

Trust me, It would be easy for an engineer/ designer to get the design language mixed up in that sort of situation. I'm pretty sure he was just referring to the dash board being moved forward and down ward upon which the screen is attached. Therefor moving the screen forward and downward. Also, Elon Musk already said, multiple times, one screen, one display. no need for more then one. you wont care about it. I dont think there can be any other way to represent data to the user unless it is "displayed", unless of course he wants to use a voice. Dear god that would get annoying.

Also yes the prototypes were close to production, some of the engineers even said that which freaked people out, and there was no other display besides the ONE screen.

KP in NPT | 29 maart 2017

@carl - yes, but the idea - that it is a strip - is what I was saying is a possibility. I agree this engineer is referring to the strip in front.

If there were a strip, I could see visual cues for blind spot detection - an issue for a few here. ;)

Garyeop | 29 maart 2017

Wow Carl. I thought I was semi obsessed. :)

I may not know WHAT the interior will look like but I do believe countries and companies have "Personalities". Just like people, when they stray from who they truly are...they fail. Think movie "Fargo" and "Boogie Nights". Tesla is a style and function company. I am positive they will place style and function in the...must I use the name...M3. That includes the IP/Dashboard/Instrument Panel/etc.

Naming IDea: Can we call ALL the cars S3XY and just highlight the letter? Model S would be S3XY with a pronounced S. Just searching for an idea that costs little but makes the car more attractive to me. :) You can then say your car is S3XY with a capitol S.

KP in NPT | 29 maart 2017

And, I really hope we don't end up with a steering wheel that is open on top. It might look cool, but I think having a "missing" area when making turns could be problematic for some. But I admit I've never driven a car that had one. the fact that the "release candidate" clearly had a closed steering wheel tells me that's unlikely - unless release candidate doesn't mean what we think it means. (that production parts are used.)

mos6507 | 29 maart 2017

This sort of selective interpretation of the reveal and looking for Jesus in burnt toast is way past its sell-by date.

I just don't buy it.

Plus the alpha test vehicles had no true air vents. The area around the windshield doesn't count. That's for defogging.

dsvick | 29 maart 2017

Nice sleuthing Carl. I'm not sure I agree though.

I don't think you can consider what the different drivers said on the reveal night as independent confirmation since they were all more than likely given the same script to work with.

I see them all motioning at the dashboard in general, if they were referring to a specific area I think they'd have been more likely to point with a finger to indicate what they were talking about .

Yes, cutting the top of the steering wheel off would certainly be futuristic, I think a lot of people would hate it, I can also see it being hard to make a turn using it.

Finally, you're still breaking the "only one display" rule.

You may be right though, hopefully we'll find out soon.

dd.micsol | 29 maart 2017

ditched my 2 model 3 orders for one mdl S 100D this morning. Same price 340m of range. That's what I was hoping for with the 3 but it'll never be.

dsvick | 29 maart 2017

@dd - "ditched my 2 model 3 orders for one mdl S 100D this morning."

And you posted it in this, completely off topi, thread why?

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

Ehninger1212:
"Also yes the prototypes were close to production, some of the engineers even said that which freaked people out, and there was no other display besides the ONE screen."

I don't think an instrument panel would be considered a "display" or "screen."

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

KP:
"If there were a strip, I could see visual cues for blind spot detection - an issue for a few here. ;)"

Yeah. I'd be perfectly OK with blindspot, turn and speed indicators on that strip.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@Garyeop

I can't tell from your comment whether you're agreeing with me or not!

Ehninger1212 | 29 maart 2017

@ carl

You got me there, you may be correct.

weluvm3 | 29 maart 2017

I wish this was true, but I have a feeling that the one of the journalists who "test drove" the prototypes that night would have confirmed this by now.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

KP:
"And, I really hope we don't end up with a steering wheel that is open on top. It might look cool, but I think having a "missing" area when making turns could be problematic for some."

Yeah if it works like most car steering wheels where you have to go full circle multiple times that wouldn't because you might need to reposition one of your hands to where there is no wheel. But if it works like racing wheels for console or PC games and the wheel only rotates about 90 degrees in either direction then you don't need to reposition your hands.

BTW, back in the day those racing wheel controls were used by some people in games where you fly a spaceship or airplane. That would also make things more spaceship-like.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@dsvick

See my answer to KP above about usability of the wheel and the "only one display" rule.

EaglesPDX | 29 maart 2017

The only instrument panel the guy is talking about in those old videos is the single main computer screen instrument panel.

Whatever Tesla does for the T3 instrumentation will be legal per NHSTA requirements. By having the top of the single large computer screen high enough to be in horizontal line of sight with windshield they could create a window that did the legal essentials in easy to read format.

A HUD would still fit the "simpler" mantra of the T3 that came out in the recent Q4 Tesla update. A single component that could toggle the info and display it in line of sight being fed info from the single computer.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

Brianjstarr:
"I wish this was true, but I have a feeling that the one of the journalists who "test drove" the prototypes that night would have confirmed this by now."

Maybe not. I'm suggesting that the instrument panel was not working or was switched off during the reveal. It would just look like a black strip to the journalists.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

It may be wishful thinking but the 3rd video I point out really does look like something to me. First the engineer talks about the screen and points to the screen. Then he talks about the instrument panel and moves his hand to point someplace else. Doesn't it look that way to anyone else?

Carl

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

And just the way the engineer in that video phrases it. He talks about the screen and then immediately says the instrument panel is down lower. To me he's saying the instrument panel is lower than the screen. And that means they're not the same thing. It doesn't look to me like he means the screen is down lower (especially since he moves his hand to point away from it). But maybe it _is_ just wishful thinking.

Carl

JeffreyR | 29 maart 2017

@OP
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tip-posting-links

When Mollom blocks your link there are a few things you can do:

1) Delete the protocol from the front, for example:

http:// or https://

2) Keep deleting the 'www' portion. Notice some sites start w/ 'm' or 'mobile' on your smartphone or tablet, delete that. Leave ones like 'ir' (like Tesla's Investor Relations site)

3) Use YouTube's share feature so links are short:

https://youtu.be/csD7BPEGAfA.

If you still get blocked, share the last part like this:

YouTube -- csD7BPEGAfA

JeffreyR | 29 maart 2017

"Pushed the I.P. forward as far as it would go:"
https://youtu.be/r2ozan7SuDQ?t=26s
(motions towards 15-inch screen and dashboard; later in this video the engineer says he is 6'7", but moved the seat up a little for the back passengers)

"So the I.P. is pushed nice and low here. Pushed all the way forward. So you have tons of legroom here."
https://youtu.be/xtqbYNCAG_0?t=2m4s
(motions towards 15-inch screen and dashboard)

"So the I.P., the instrument panel, is down lower, and we're able to push everything forward in the car."
https://youtu.be/VZ0kAwUq9DM?t=1m54s
(motions above 15-inch screen then down the dashboard)

"Are f*ing kidding me!! Wooo!"
https://youtu.be/mAjfsl5J6xQ?t=1m2s
(the look)

I think they are just referring to the 15-inch screen and dash as the "I.P." The fact that they all sound like they are hitting their talking points means that they were trained.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@JeffreyR - I like it better my way.

JeffreyR | 29 maart 2017

It's much harder to use if you are on a phone or tablet. No need for a space. Also, I added the timestamps for you in my last post.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@JeffreyR - OK! You convinced me!

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@JeffreyR - Mollem didn't like the links you posted. Not sure how it works for you but not for me.

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

It may be wishful thinking but the 3rd video I point out really does look like something to me. First the engineer talks about the screen and points to the screen. Then he talks about the instrument panel and moves his hand to point someplace else. Doesn't it look that way to anyone else?

And it's also the way the engineer in that video phrases it. He talks about the screen and then immediately says the instrument panel is down lower. To me he's saying the instrument panel is lower than the screen. And that means they're not the same thing. It doesn't look to me like he means the screen is down lower (especially since he moves his hand to point away from the screen). No one else sees it that way? Have I just gone Model 3 mad?

Carl

RP3 | 29 maart 2017

@Carl I'd like to believe and almost do because of that 3rd video, but he could just be referring to the dashboard as being lower and using the phrase IP to mean dash.

jon | 29 maart 2017

I'm wondering if there's an accelerometer in the display. Twist to traditional Tesla UI in vertical mode, and it reveals some sort of cluster, and in Landscape mode, it's made more for a passenger vehicle (autonomous).

purdy007boy | 29 maart 2017

your links didn't work on my work computer but I figured it out and I also had similar ideas about this!! Im just pissed that in order to get the $7500 tax credit I have to settle for RWD. my 2nd more desired option was AWD!!

Carl Thompson | 29 maart 2017

@hsuru4u

That article draws its own conclusions, Musk did not actually say the Model 3 does not have an instrument panel. He did ask "How often do you look at the instrument panel when being driven in a taxi?" But that's not the same thing as saying the Model 3 doesn't have one. Maybe it just means it can be turned off when you don't want to look at it.

Carl

Octagondd | 29 maart 2017

Pigeon - From your link:

S5.1.2 The telltales and indicators
listed in Table 1 and Table 2 and their
identification must be located so that,
when activated, they are visible to a
driver under the conditions of S5.6.1
and S5.6.2.

S5.6.1 The driver has adapted to the
ambient light roadway conditions.

S5.6.2 The driver is restrained by
the seat belts installed in accordance
with 49 CFR 571.208 and adjusted in ac-
cordance with the vehicle manufactur-
er’s instructions.

These are the only federal standards for location of an indicator.

Octagondd | 29 maart 2017

I would like to fuel more speculation with this. Elon said there is one display. I don't think he has called it a screen. I could be wrong though. An ARD on the windshield that contained all the vehicle, navigation and infotainment data with controls on the steering wheel would fit the description of one display. The screen could merely be there for testing.

I don't believe this, but I think its fun to see the ideas.

Garyeop | 29 maart 2017

@Carl I was agreeing with you, as in most your posts. We both seem to be Tesla fans but not afraid to tell the truth if we see issues.

M3forMe | 2 april 2017

I found this video and the engineer/driver confirmed there is NO IP just the single center display.

youtube -- b7s60cwlX-U

Carl Thompson | 2 april 2017

@M3forMe

Thanks, M3forMe. I hadn't seen that one. But the video doesn't quite say that. It says there's no instrument _cluster_ which isn't quite the same as saying there's no instrument _panel_. I still think if there were no instrument panel those other engineers wouldn't have talked about it the way they did. But perhaps that's just my wishful thinking.

Carl

bj | 2 april 2017

I'm afraid this is straw-clutching in the extreme. There will be only one display in the middle. End of.

Pages