Thank you Mike for this article. Truly explains how Welfare Mitch became a denier. A weatherman does not need to learn science. Looks like his colleagues have seen the light. I think its time for Welfare Mitch to hop on board.https://www.vox.com/2017/9/19/16316240/hurricane-irma-harvey-tv-weather-...
Not much of an article. Really not worth the time it took to write it or the space it takes up.
If diesel is for you, why are you on this forum?
@SCCRENDO, thanks for posting. Interesting, but don't think Mitch will ever see the light as he seems so entrenched in his flawed beliefs regarding AGW/Climate Disruption. This quote from article describes Mitch perfectly: "you don’t need a deep understanding of the climate system to be an operational forecaster."
I guess i could have put dieselnot4me. too many characters. SO was a good choice, not much imagination though.
"Too many characters"
You could shorten yours too. How about d4m? Say it with me: "I am d4m(ed)" :-D
Good article. Note " 70 percent of Americans are convinced global warming is happening." The constant refutation of deceptions (such as on this forum) is helping.
Amazing how we had no hurricanes hit land for 12 years and none of the meteorologists can explain why. But they want to link it to climate change so now they are somehow knowledgable.
Some meteorologists yes; climate scientists no. Climate scientists predict increased INTENSITY.
@Massimob30. I think you and the other deniers need to be educated. So here is you hurricane lesson. I apologize for using facts but they are more reliable than your unsubstantiated opinionshttp://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/impacts/hurrica...
That's right, prediction is for Increased intensity but decreased frequency.
The lesson for Massimob and others is to doubt views on Anthropogenic Climate Change (Anthropogenic Global Warming) that are based on political leanings. It's wiser to have more respect for predictions based on science.
The idea that more hurricanes are expected because of AGW is, to use an expression, "all wet." Stronger hurricanes are to be expected. I don't see politicians opining on this...but I do see peer-reviewed scientific papers.
Please sign up and join the Union of Concerned Scientists. Lot of good papers and references.
We haven't seen stronger hurricanes though. Most of the strongest storms happened many decades ago.
@diesel - "SO was a good choice, not much imagination though."
I have no imagination.
@massimob30. Facts continue to confuse you. There may have more intense occasional hurricanes in the past but overall hurricane severity has increased over the last 40 years. Isolated incidents do not prove points but large studies over many years will give you more accurate trends. So please read the link I posted above.http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/impacts/hurrica...
@massimob30 - article dated before this hurricane season. Will be curious to see if that article still stands after analyzing this year.
SCCRENDO - the link you posted shows records from the 1970's to present. If you look before that, you will see that stronger and more frequent hurricanes took place.
SO - the article is dated Aug 27 this year, so it just missed Harvey. I don't see how Irma would change the argument much at all.
The trouble with posting politically oriented opinions (based on party politics) as opposed to science oriented peer-reviewed articles is that we can review them.
So, here are the hurricanes Massimob is referring to:
Galveston 1900 (Category 4). Lots of deaths...not directly related to strength of storm...more about preparedness. BTW, damage of Galveston 1900: $30 million. In today's dollars: not even $1bn.
South Florida 1928. Indeed, a Category 5
Miami 1926. No category given.
Katrina 2005. Category 3. Within the 40 year time span we're discussing.
Camille 1969...Category 5. Okay...before 1970. But, within the range we're discussing.
Andrew 1992. Category 5
Superstorm Sandy. 2012
The hurricanes you reference are only those that made US landfall, there were fewer fierce hurricanes before 1970 and they were less frequent.
There's more data I can give you if you want.
I urge you to join the Union of Concerned Scientists.
Since Captain Planet initiated this thread in my namesake, I thought I would read the article he posted. I was particularly interested because I actually met the writer of the article, Sean Sublette, at a Hurricane Conference here in Houston last July. We had a bunch of speakers at the conference, Sean being one of them. Most of the discussions were on hurricanes, emergency preparedness and response.
There were two speakers who discussed climate. One was former National Hurricane Center director, Dr. Neil Frank, and Sean. Dr. Frank pointed out many of the same things I have pointed out here in this Tesla Forum that climate has never been a constant in the past. Climate has always changed in the past, and it will change in the future. We have proxy and instrument records of climate. We also have ships logs dating back centuries. Dr. Frank pointed out to everybody that the instrument record reveals a 70-year climate cycle. Our recent warming trend was simply an upswing of this cycle. We had a cooling phase from the 1950s through the 1970s. The Arctic ice expanded during this cool cycle. Our satellite record began in 1979 which happened to be at the peak of the Arctic ice expansion. During the warm cycle, of course the Arctic ice will shrink back like it always has. The global warming alarmists crowd saw the correlation of increasing CO2 with the multi-decadal warming trend, and assumed a link where there is none. The warming cycle would have happened with or without the extra CO2 in the atmosphere. Sean basically focused on the rising CO2 and stated that the correlation is in fact a cause and effect.
I spoke with Dr. Frank and Sean Sublette after the conference. Dr. Frank told me about the great web site called NoTricksZone. Had a cordial conversation with Sean as well. He is a strong believer in human caused global warming. But you global warming worshippers will be disappointed with what I have to tell you next. SEAN WANTS THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO TAKE CHARGE ON CLIMATE CHANGE, AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT POLICY MAKERS TO STAY OUT!! Sean cannot stand Al Gore, and he considers Gore to be a harm to the cause of fighting climate change. Sean also told me he does not believe the government should force others to buy electric cars. I told him about my Tesla. He said he loves Tesla, but he can't afford one right now. Sean does think high gas mileage cars are fine, and that would serve as a good transition till a period when we become fossil fuel free.
Sean gave me his business card. I have his contact information if anybody wants to start up a dialogue with him. I won't reveal his info here, but you can shoot an email to me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I can reply with his email address for only those who are interested to correspond with him. Sean will know who I am because I was the guy with the Tesla!
reminds me of how much of western medicine is practised
treat the symptoms - since finding the cause is way to complex
example treating the symptom : create FEDERAL flood insurance program so wage earners can subsidize coastal insurance. Don't even try to limit coastal building or allow PRIVATE insurance company to insure. No, tax payers subsidize coast flood insurance. I think we finally moved most out of the river floodplains, not sure.
Taxes, most any taxes, cost us wage earners. as corporations get loopholes or simply pass on the cost.
Another bureaucracy (make work for government people) and can anyone monitor waste, fraud and abuse?
Even Goldman Sachs wants carbon tax, after financialization of Carbon Tax, Goldman will clean up, as usual.
Why would you waste oil? too valuable to just burn up, isn't it??
Plastics too valuable to just use once and throw away.
Anyone who doesn't get these two statements and change his behavior certainly won't hear climate arguments and then change his behavior. right?
Don't waste oil, use as little as possible - save yourself some money.
Walk & bike more, eat less meat, all good for you. Walk the talk.
Does anyone get it? Or do I just sound like a mad man??
Luck for us all, with Solar and Wind and batteries all dropping in price simple economics will prevail. Soon enough? No so sure.
But in the meantime, Nuke war, never ending wars, monsanto and our industrialized food system, security state, loss of constitutional rights, banksters, next bubble (housing, stocks, whatever) healthcare our of control, pharma costs our of control, militarized police forces, unaffordable education for our kids, will probably do us in before the climate. Climate/weather will just be another brick in the wall. IF you don't try to fix these things, what will the weather matter?
@brando, vis a vis your opinion on Western medicine, you do sound a little mad. Traumatized by a vaccination? :-)
I actually agree that the reason building occurs in stupid places is because the feds subsidize insurance against the respective natural hazard being discussed. Builders and consumers don't pay proportionate to their risk, and certainly not enough to fully fund a pool. (You'd need to mandate flood/earthquake coverage to ensure everyone at risk pays into the pool. Hmm, where have I heard that one before, and the subsequent conservative apoplexy.) Since no one wants "Obamacare" for hazard insurance, that is a non-starter. So, we are looking at someone paying 10-30x higher flood/earthquake insurance if they are located in a higher-hazard area and/or have buildings constructed not to withstand the predominate hazard of the area.
So, private insurance for flood and earthquake coverage reflecting the true costs of funding the pool and not relying on any federal bailout would be priced so prohibitively that no ethical builder or local government would permit building in those areas.
That's truly "market based" thinking. ;-)
Hey Hellasmarter Dude, according to your standards, every place one builds is a stupid place to build!!!
Meanwhile, let's have a look at how the Arctic is melting away to oblivion.
As of 21 SEP 2017, the Arctic sea ice extent stands at 4.772 X 10^6 km2. The Arctic ice has been INCREASING daily since its minimum of 4.636 X 10^6 km2 on 13 SEP 2017. That must mean the Arctic is now getting colder. Let's check it.
Confirmed! The Danish Meteorological Institute is showing the Arctic is getting colder like it always does at this time of the year. Currently it is running at 267K, or -6C.
The incessant mantra of "melt dammit melt" from the global warming worshipping crowd is growing fainter and fainter with each tick of the clock. Although a few of them are becoming more shrill. And those shrill ones just happen to be Tesla owners!
@Mitch, wow, that was a Fox "News"-like pivot. Congrats.
Just ahead . . . why Jimmy Kimmel shouldn't comment on healthcare from our friend, Doctor Rob Kardashian . . . next on Fox and Friends.
Mitch gets California cheddar AND doesn't care because he personally benefits. it's about who wins. When poor or brown people win, that makes Mitch mad. When rich white people win, that's the American way!
Obama phones bad.
Texans building in a flood plane and then demanding the government give them subsidized insurance is good.
Welfare for inner-city moms is bad.
Bank bailouts are good.
Brown people asserting their rights is bad.
Texas building a fertilizer factory next to a school is good.
White Nationalists using open-carry to terrorize the public is good.
Antifa is bad.
Trump is good.
Minimum wage is bad.
$7T extra for the military is good.
Healthcare for all is bad.
Why does anyone listen to Mitch? He is obviously mentally unstable.
@SamO, great summary, agree @mschaffer11!
@Welfare_Mitch. Confirm with a weatherman. Summer is over, winter is coming. It’s getting colder. Ice stops melting. But so what??? When we look at the the amount of ice that melts, the amount that freezes, the snow that falls and the ice that is lost through calving our planet is losing ice at a significant rate each decade. So I guess Daily save ice extents in the Arctic when temps are dropping tell you nothing about climate change. You need to look at the broad picture. I have provided many links that Greenland has been losing land ice at 200 Gigatons per year. The Arctic sea ice continues to melt per decade etc. So if you want to present a plausible case lets here a coherent story with evidence rather that stating its late September and Arctic ice has stopped melting
Read this link to enlighten yourself.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/14/fast-arctic-ice-melting-meet-...
Hey 60cc SamO, what cheddar from California? I haven't gotten any. I put a claim (first and only one) in for my house damage - with insurance that I paid for with my annual premium for 10 years, 17 including my homeowners insurance! You and the rest of you goofy, snotty-ass global warming worshippers from California don't have any friggin' idea about what kind of taxpayer subsidy I may or may not have. How about your earthquake insurance? Think there might be a subsidy for that? Hypocrites! By the way, you just had a little trembler off your coast!
Hey chaff for brains, to you, anybody who looks at climate data is mentally unstable! In your twisted world view, climate data should be shielded from the public!
Upton Sinclair once said “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
But I'd change it: “It is impossible to get a fake-conservative to understand something, when his government cheese depends on his not understanding it.”
"Keep your Government hands off my Medicare" sounds like something Mitch would say . . .
"At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare."The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program -- but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of it." It's a funny story -- but it illustrates
the extent to which health reform must climb a wall of misinformation."
Irrelevant 60cc SamO. But then, you only have 60cc's to comprehend with. FEMA is the only flood insurance in town. I bought into it because there is no other flood insurance. A lot like what the likes of you want to do to healthcare.
Welfare_Mitch. Medicare is the only health insurance in town and social security is the only retirement scheme in town for many over 65. We all paid into in all our working lives. Yet our premiums don’t cover them. Guess we should get rid of Medicare, Social Security and FEMA flood insurance for Houston. Then you wouldn’t have to have worried about getting your welfare cheese from FEMA. And then we could have all sent you donations to help rebuild your house because you didn’t know you were building in a flood plain, global warming was heating up our oceans and air and making hurricanes more intense and Houston was allowing building in wetlands to stop flood water draining. Of course you could have learned some science at Texas A&M.
Mitch doesn't understand how insurance works. That's so cute. Like a baby kitten with a butterfly on its nose.
Quick hint, it's not the conservative credo - every man for himself.
60cc SamO and Captain Planet are nothing but a couple of ungrateful ignorant jack-asses!! We live in whatever system we have. I prefer a free-market system. But we don't have it. So, I deal with the system we are currently living in. I don't have any control over that. You two dumbasses think I do! Well, I don't! I did NOT live in a floodplain. There are some areas in Houston where you are required to carry flood insurance. And, in those areas, the premiums are much higher. My house is not in a required flood insurance area. But, I CHOSE flood insurance coverage just in case. And sure enough it happened. It isn't as if I wanted it to happen like you two pieces of fecal matter think I did so I can get your stupid-ass welfare cheese. Wow, what a concept. Only in the brain of a demented California liberal democrat would a concept like that come up.
Anyway, the slow step by step process of my flood recovery is going on. I am still waiting on FEMA to help me out. I haven't received a nickel from them yet. My private insurer Allstate has already been Johnny-on-the-spot and helped me out even though they don't cover flood. They had a provision called "water-backup" coverage in my homeowners policy, and they were able to get me some relief funds right away. This is why I want flood insurance to be privatized. The private sector is by far more efficient!
@Welfare_Mitch. If the private sector is so much more efficient why did you go to the government for flood insurance? I guess the private sector couldn’t deliver. If they could they would have offered you flood insurance. Isn’t it good that FEMA stepped up to the plate for you. Even if you have to wait for your cheese. I guess Trump is too busy making America Great to speed up FEMA. Are you guys tired of winning yet???
I am contacting the owner Elon Musk of Tesla My name is Albert I own a tesla X 75D my vin number is : 5YJXCDE26HF052091. I came to purchase a tesla in Lyndhurst Ohio on Mayfield Road from tesla. I wanted to get my wife a present and buy her a car. They told me that they could sell me a car. The salesman’s name is Steven, I asked him to give me a 24 month lease but he said he can’t do a 24 month lease and that he would do a 36, i purchased the car the same day but I wanted a 24 month lease. The following day I called 3 different offices and they gave me offers for 24 months. After this, I convinced the manager that i could i receive a lease for 24 months. They ran me this lease but it was too high. The day I purchased my car the front wheel bumper was cracked they told me to bring the car and they would fix it. After this the bumper was broken then a piece of the trunk was broken. There was also a tire malfunction where there was air coming out and it was ready to explode. And there was also a very bad paint job and there were scratches and they had covered them up. Now they are offering to change the bumper but it wouldn’t match the car so that’s why I don’t want to change it. In a few days I brought the car back a technician checked my car and the car was vibrating loudly. The technician said they have to fix that too. If you have any questions you can talk to Rudie he works at the service department in Lyndhurst. He talked to a manager and he promised to help please make a right decision that will resolve my problem and satisfy me.
@Adunat's comments are more logical and appropriate than @Cheese's.
@MitchP85D (September 23, 2017)
<< My house is not in a required flood insurance area. But, I CHOSE flood insurance coverage just in case. >>
If I lived anywhere close to a floodplain, I would build or purchase a battery-backed power generator based on 1-2 renewable energy sources (say solar plus geothermal) and raise it on a surge-high deck.along with the house itself and the garages.
I would also build this assembly to resist a Cat 5 hurricane wind. The only residual vulnerability would then be to flying objects. I would guess the homeowners policy could cover that for a small addition to the premium.
Let's call this project a Cat 5 Hurricane House and launch a construction business to offer it to people who like to live close to the hurricane-prone areas.
@Sam0. I agree Adunat sounds more logical than Welfare_Mitch. I wonder if he is smoking the same stuff as Trx. Flagged him anyway.
@Adunat post flagged for (a) irrelevance to the thread topic and (b) TEA score of 1000%.
He posted on the X forum too.
Hugs for Mitch! xoxo
I like this video. Maybe....just maybe... one day Americans will wake up and realize they are being had.
I remember about 20 years ago or so they had an episode on TV where they were going to debate climate change. On one side they had 2 people who were saying climate change was not happening and on the other they had a climatologist. I remember thinking at the time this should be great, I would finally have some answers to whether or not the climate was changing and if we were part of the cause. After about 20 min the climatologist had made mince mince of every single argument and pseudo facts from the other two.
The arguments would generally tend to be like this.
Deniers: from 1960-1980 the glacier A & B have actually grown.
Climatologist: Actually no they haven't, according to data from recent satellite images they are now melting even faster at a rate of .... From 1920 to 199? they have covered less than 5.6 millon(you get the picture)
Every time the deniers threw out some facts, the climatologist cited a whole slew of other facts that countered theirs. Now the climatologist could have been lying but I could tell by the looks on the Deniers faces they were clearly outmatched and were becoming befuddled. No matter what they threw at this guy, this guy knew his science and data, He was very calm, never raised his voice, never called them stupid. He just refuted all their claims with scientific facts. After that show I realized that Climate change was real and that those who oppose it really have no clue about science or are so stuck in their belief system that they refuse to see what is literraly staring them in the face. When I see Mitch and the others on this site, it always reminds me of the two deniers on that show. Especially when everyone else does a great job citing actually facts on this forum.
Even Mitch does a great job some times with his links, for they show the overall warming trend as well which actually refutes his claims.
In any case at least the rest of the world is doing something about it and if China is going full on electric, the US will eventually be forced to as well due to the market forces. No one will want to buy a FF car when they can buy an electric that runs better at a cheaper price.
Hey leery one. You obviously did NOT see this debate!
Right . . . That'll convince 'em, Cheese.
The delusive world you occupy is about to get a lot smaller.
@SO, thanks for the great link, and totally agree, very succinct takedown on the flawed American healthcare system.
@leeramer, great story thanks for sharing. Mitch is beyond help and understanding.
Thanks lilbean. You're a kick-ass gal!
Oh, 60cc SamO, so leery one's story is?