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2 things missing in a Tesla EV that need to be there:

2 things missing in a Tesla EV that need to be there:

I don't know why Tesla hasn't done this yet. Other companies are doing it:

1. 110volt receptacle inside the car. The Bolinger EV truck has it. It makes perfect sense and is an awesome feature.

2. V2G integration. The new 2018 Nissan Leaf offers this feature. It's clearly a useful feature to get more use out of your car and also help stabilize an energy grid powered by renewables.

So both these features obviously can be done, are being done and are very useful for customers and society. Remember, we have a whole industry of fossil-fuel powered personal generators that can go the way of Kodak if all EVs offer these features. And that would be good for reducing our carbon emissions.

DTsea | 14 november 2017

Tesla has no interest in v2g

blue adept | 14 november 2017

@ryanlogtenberg

1. Tesla hasn't made a truck...yet.

2. As DTsea pointed out, Tesla hasn't any interest in outfitting their vehicles to send surplus charge to the Grid as their residential and commercial installations serve that purpose already.

And since you brought it up, just what is the NHTSA safety rating on that truck?

Rocky_H | 14 november 2017

That's funny use of the present tense and plural. "Other companies are doing it"
Example #1 doesn't even exist yet. The Bollinger B1 is still just an idea. It is a really kickass looking practical work-type vehicle, though.
http://bollingermotors.com/

Example #2 is one vehicle. I don't know if there are any other companies doing it.
I don't disagree that these are decent ideas, but it's kind of overselling it to claim that it's something that is really widespread.

TabascoGuy | 14 november 2017

Type Bollinger Motors into Google Maps and switch to satellite view. It's in Hobart NY. Take a close look at their "facilities". This is where Bollinger made their truck. I don't think they've finished the second one yet.

Rocky_H | 14 november 2017

@TabascoGuy, Yes, I know where they are located and that they have made one prototype. That's still in the "not there" category.

joemar10 | 14 november 2017

But if it ever comes to production it will be awesome. Very utilitarian. No frills. Work truck. I think they're on the right track.

darmiejr | 15 november 2017

I guess I never got the big picture of the V2G. It appears that Tesla is the only car company that offers the largest charging network with superchargers all over the world. In most examples, these are free to tesla car owners. How would it be fair in any stretch to then take that power and place it on the Grid? To me the power in my car is as precious as what runs my home. I also think Tesla's idea to help the grid is with power banks and solar, not a car.

As far as 110V outlet, let's just say I would be happy if they gave me 12V when the door is shut.

reed_lewis | 15 november 2017

Tesla has the power wall which is their energy storage solution.

dyefrog | 15 november 2017

I think the OP misspoke when he mentioned V2G. Actually, the Leaf has a V2Home feature available in Japan for years. It's intent is to be a backup for power outages I believe. In Japan, a family can stretch 24Kwh for a few days. Here in America, not so much.
As to the 110v outlet, it's been on the wish list for a while as a useful feature in camping mode or tailgating, regardless of any previous vehicle's inclusion.

TeslaTap.com | 15 november 2017

V2G suggested back in 2014, and has gotten some votes: https://teslatap.com/questions/model-s-battery-as-energy-source-for-hous...

Built in 120VAC inverter was suggested back in 2013 and has more votes: https://teslatap.com/questions/120-vac-inverter/

You can add your vote to either one, but so far Tesla does not seem interested in these features.

TabascoGuy | 15 november 2017

@Rocky_H. I agree with you and I apologize, my comment was more to the "Other companies are doing it". One vehicle hardly counts.

nadurse | 15 november 2017

Pure speculation but I think Tesla might be more apt to doing V2G in the future when the vast majority of their cars do not have "free unlimited supercharging". Technically speaking, what would stop you from charging up your model S/X for free on the way home and using it to power your house on a regular basis? (if V2G was available)

Also I think because they offer a powerwall, they want to sell you on that as well if you need a backup power source. Theres also the risk associated with doing that, Tesla already has absorbed plenty of risk with their business plan, I dont think they want to add something else (that is not necessary) to their risks.

ryanlogtenberg | 16 november 2017

Tesla has no interest in providing V2G perhaps because JB Strauble doesn't think it'll be good for the batteries. Dr. Willet Kempton has done studies on this and disagrees, and of course it appears that so does Nissan. Tesla might also fear that offering V2G might cannibalize its powerwall business, so they would have a vested interest in having it not come to fruition. This could be the same reason why a 110volt outlet doesn't exist either. I hope not though.

But here's the thing: these big batteries have a very large carbon footprint (I know, I've done a study on this). To build 2 batteries (one for EV, one for energy storage) when a single EV battery can also offer V2G services is a smarter way to reduce the amount of batteries we need overall and therefore reduce GHG emissions.

Saving the planet from going into unstoppable global warming is Tesla's mission, which explains why Elon has such a large fan base (myself being one of them) and offering V2G services as well as a 110volt outlet helps advance that mission.

blue adept | 16 november 2017

There's already a 12V power port (along with two USB ports) located between the front seats...Perhaps someone could make use of a 12V inverter to gain a 110 outlet if there were a really pressing need?

Rocky_H | 16 november 2017

@just an allusion, Nice thought about an inverter to convert the 12V to 120V, but the power level isn't there. That 12V socket goes through a 10A fuse. So the maximum power it can pull is 120W. If you convert that to 120V, that is 120V times 1A. There are very few pluggable appliances that can run from only 1A.

Bikezion | 16 november 2017

@ryanlogtenberg have you seen the remaining range on a used Leaf? They don't fare well in use as a car, I'm sure they won't do well with the added stress of the house. I know they've changed the battery to the supposed "lizard chemistry" but they are still degrading quite rapidly. Why would Tesla risk having to warranty the car battery, when they can just sell a power wall that has the correct chemistry for the use?

johnse | 17 november 2017

@ryanlogtenberg “To build 2 batteries (one for EV, one for energy storage) when a single EV battery can also offer V2G services is a smarter way to reduce the amount of batteries we need overall and therefore reduce GHG emissions.”

These are two very different, complementary usages that (for much of the customer base) would conflict with each other.

The best, most common, use case is the combination of solar with powerwall. This allows the capture of solar-produced energy during the day—when the car is often not present. The powerwall is then used to provide power overnight, possibly supplemented by grid power. Part of that usage is to replenish the car’s battery. As long as the solar/powerwall are sized appropriately to the average daily commute, all or a large part of the car’s charging will have come from solar.

The only use case where V2H makes any sense is as a generator replacement. Tesla stopped selling their backup-oriented powerwall. The demand wasn’t there, the capacity was too small. The pairing of battery with generation is what makes local solar production worthwhile.

In some places you can timeshift production and usage via net metering, but at large scale that destabilizes the grid and net metering is likely to go away at some point.

V2H is a solution looking for a problem.

blue adept | 17 november 2017

@Rocky_H

There are a number of devices that you can charge or will run off of your cigarette lighter's socket, you'll just need to make sure that your device doesn't draw more than 10 amps and you'll be alright.

scabello800 | 17 november 2017

I like the idea of 110V .. but i wonder how you pull it off in a safe manner.. people tend to spill drinks easily and stuff. I have shorted enough cigarette sockets and have fried more than one inverter (one i think went on fire.. but i dont really know for sure.. i got it the hell out of the car quick).

I like V2G too.. I would like to charge up at night when electricity is cheap and then consume it when it gets expensive. I have time-of-use energy billing now and this would save me thousands per year. But can the car supply energy at the speed i need it (25-30kW) for hours on end?

I would buy a powerwall if i could get back 15-20% a year on my money. Mostly for the tech cool factor. I think most homeowners dont know if they will be in the home for the 7-8 years necessary to recover the costs (return on principal plus opportunity cost) and a 8 year old powerwall probably doesnt help too much with resale.. so powerwall needs to come down in price and needs to be able to store 500kwh and push out 50kw. I wouldnt even pay 50k for that system. needs to be about 20-25K and i dont see that happening

Bryan.whitton | 19 november 2017

I'm in the PV industry and drive a Leaf. Would not use V2G and have been in a lot of policy meetings regarding it. My concern is that if you use your battery for backup or grid support and you have to leave you have no reserve for travel. I live in Silicon Valley and if I need to leave the area(earthquake as an example) I don't want to have to try and get out on 1/2 a battery.
We sell a PowerWall competitor and the cost just isn't that great to add that function as a separate entity.

Rocky_H | 21 november 2017

@Just an Allusion, Quote: "There are a number of devices that you can charge or will run off of your cigarette lighter's socket, you'll just need to make sure that your device doesn't draw more than 10 amps and you'll be alright."

Well...yeah...of course if you want to change the subject to something else. There are lots of things that are designed to be used in a car, so they can run from 12V, and then you have plenty of amps, but that's not what you were talking about earlier:

Quote: "Perhaps someone could make use of a 12V inverter to gain a 110 outlet if there were a really pressing need?"

If you use an inverter to convert to 120V, you only have 1A to work with, and most devices intended to be plugged into wall outlets need a bit more than 1A.

blue adept | 21 november 2017

@Rocky_H

I guess the point is that anyone who's ever actually owned a car would know what you could or couldn't plug into one just as they would know of whatever aftermarket adapters there are available to enable you to plug whatever into one so, really, this is yet another attempt to cast aspersions on Tesla because of their automotive accomplishments that are overshadowing ICE's by a good margin, so I don't understand the idiocy.

Rocky_H | 22 november 2017

@just an allusion, Quote: "I guess the point is that anyone who's ever actually owned a car would know what you could or couldn't plug into one"

Heh, that is far from the truth. Most people have no idea about the volts, Watts, and amps involved, and think that a car inverter lets you plug in whatever kind of wall appliance you want, and get quite the disappointing experience when they find out that it can't pass through enough power to run their ______ the first time they try to use it on a camping trip.

Quote: "so, really, this is yet another attempt to cast aspersions on Tesla because of their automotive accomplishments that are overshadowing ICE's by a good margin."

It's not casting aspersions at all. This IS a very real situation, where only some very low power items can run from a 120V inverter in a car, so it is very limiting to find out what you can use from that and what you can't. It would be very useful to be able to have a real 120V outlet with some decent current available. No car has that right now. Tesla has the ability to do that pretty easily to gain that advantage over gas cars, but they don't seem willing or interested.

Quote: "so I don't understand the idiocy."

It's because of your being stubborn.

blue adept | 2 december 2017

@Rocky_H

"...stubborn." are the people interested in running gadgets in their cars not having the presence of mind to take the time to research inverters to find out whatall they're capable of running with them/whatever modifications to their vehicles that might be required to achieve the end result they desire.

As for the perception of Tesla's lack of interest in developing the option for deployment in their vehicles, that's likely a good thing given the absent mindedness of most people who're notoriously prone to leaving things plugged in and running while they engage in whatever other thing that might be consuming their attention.

Human Nature: +1

Rocky_H: -1

blue adept | 2 december 2017

@Rocky_H

By the by...

I don't know if you've been paying attention or not, but Tesla's cars have ALREADY gained the advantage over gas cars and even managed to do so without having to resort to the use of any trick-style gadgets or gizmos just to make their cars more appealing than they already are!

lilbean | 4 december 2017

Other companies aren’t doing as great as Tesla. Tesla blows everyone out of the water. Ha!

jordanrichard | 4 december 2017

I don't quite understand the logic of this concept. There is a power outage, so you run your house off the car's battery. So, "x" amount of time later you have killed off your battery and have no lights in your house. Brilliant idea........ That's the same logic as syphoning all the gas from your car's gas tank, to run your generator. So in theory, you are back to sitting in the dark and can't go anywhere.

Rocky_H | 4 december 2017

@just an allusion, Uh huh. You're going to count on the initiative and motivation of the American public. And meanwhile there is great success and sales in remote controls for every freaking thing and Laz-E-Boys, and automated crock pots and fast food, etc. etc. that caters to people's lack of wanting to expend effort.

TeslaTap.com | 4 december 2017

@jordanrichard - I don't see how V2H (Vehicle to Home) is good for Tesla's car's battery warranty, but there is some value for owners. For example, we loose power maybe 1-2 times a year. At most it's an hour, and often under 5 minutes. Would be nice to have a whole home backup (without a lot of additional expense) for these fairly rare occurrences. Right now I have 3 smaller UPSs for select backup, which are good for a few minutes of outage depending on the load. I agree that for locations that suffer regular and long outages, V2H would not be healthy for the car's battery and could leave you stranded.

AstonZagato | 4 december 2017

In the UK, the Tesla Powerwall disables itself if it detects a power cut. This is to protect workers on the power systems from encountering unexpected current in the system apparently.

TeslaTap.com | 4 december 2017

@AstonZagato - Sort of off topic, but ....

In the USA, regulations require that anything connected to the mains must auto-disconnect. Solar has been doing this for years here. Otherwise linemen would be killed while repairing the lines and connections. I suspect the UK has similar regulations.

There are options to provide a switchover, which disconnects the house from the outside line, so that the Powerwall or solar can continue to power the house. This approach is slightly more expensive, and some owners avoid that extra expense at installation. Tesla does offer this option with the Powerwall 2.

blue adept | 6 december 2017

@Rocky_H

"Uh huh. You're going to count on the initiative and motivation of the American public. And meanwhile there is great success and sales in remote controls for every freaking thing...that caters to people's lack of wanting to expend effort."

And that, friend, is probably the reason why Tesla took it upon themselves not to offer more options (particularly one that could pose a real hazard to the integrity of the charge storage capacity of the batteries) than are typically available in ANY production vehicle ever produced (other than RV's which, I think, some of which might actually have 110 V receptacles in them), which is my point entirely.

Tesla's are extraordinarily exceptional vehicles, far ahead of their time and more advanced that ANY vehicle on the road today, but they are not, nor were they ever intended to be, rolling receptacles.

Perhaps you should just buy an RV instead?