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rated range is extremely difficult and unlikely to be realistic for most drivers - feature request

rated range is extremely difficult and unlikely to be realistic for most drivers - feature request

Hi Tesla,

i have a new Model S P100D and i'm pretty unsatisfied with rated range. In the Settings -> Units menu there is an option to show distances and charge rates using either “Energy” or “Distance” units (and if using Distance, whether to use Typical or Rated kilometers). If you choose “Distance” units this simply determines the number of kilometers range that the car associates with a 100% charge level. The numbers are absolutely unrealistic for most drivers and only solution is select energy units.

I vote for the third option for Distance in Units menu, and that will be smotehing like "average". If the Tesla use average consumption over for example 1000 km it will be much more useful information for everyone Tesla drivers.

Thank you and Merry Christmas

Marek

EVRider | 19 december 2017

The estimated range shown in the instrument panel changes to reflect actual and projected energy usage, so it’s not a static estimate. You can also use the Energy App to get more detailed energy usage data.

marekbukal | 19 december 2017

Yes, you are right EVRider. But for most drivers is better place to have a information about range directly on the driving display.

Tesla have a "projected" energy data which is much more significant to daily reality. So why don't use this data on the right place or a options in the Control panel / Units. I love simplifying user interfaces and if i want use to "projected range in km" i want to use in whole system. Not only in one submenu.

GHammer | 19 december 2017

What country are you in?

Bighorn | 19 december 2017

I have no problem getting rated range in temperate circumstances and some people actually achieve ideal range. With higher speeds or poor weather, I have a pretty good sense of how far a certain SOC will allow. Efficiency is variable with the conditions, so no single constant will serve the requested purpose unless conditions are unvarying. Since it's more complex than a simple conversion factor in varying circumstances, having the energy screen seems very appropriate vs an oversimplified estimate.

hpjtv | 19 december 2017

I’m in Canada and get pretty close to rated range, maybe take it easy on the lead foot and also allow regen to slow you down rather than use the brakes. Only have a hard time if it’s really cold out or if it’s raining hard.

Flash | 19 december 2017

@hpjtv. I’m sure I’ll find out soon enough as a soon to be new owner, but what does a hard rain do that impacts range? I understand the cold, heating the cabin and battery. Just trying to understand everything as it’s all new to me.

T35LA | 19 december 2017

@hammer @OR-US
I guess he's from the Czech Republic.

cosmicdust | 19 december 2017

@Flash: Hard rain means the car has to push through heavier molecules, meaning more resistance and more energy to move forward hence less range. Same goes to cold/snowy/foggy conditions where the air is thick and offers more resistance compared to warm air (assuming constant speed). (All these factors impact range(some factors just EVs and some factors all cars).

p.c.mcavoy | 19 december 2017

Rated range in the US (and I believe Canada) are based upon and EPA test cycle whereas in Europe (which I'm guessing is the case for the OP) it's based upon what is known as the NEDC test cycle. The NEDC cycle is notorious for producing unrealistically good fuel economy / range numbers whether it's for an ICE or an EV. That's likely the main culprit for the OP, and anyone in Europe, is that it's much more difficult to come close the the rated km number than it is for owners here in the US.

PatientFool | 19 december 2017

I'm confused. Rated range is already an average over your last 30mi driven so should reflect your real recent driving. The only time that i've seen it not be accurate is if whatever i was doing the last 30mi doesn't reflect what i do the rest of my drive.

Bighorn | 19 december 2017

@PF
Rated range constant is a fixed commodity. Not experiential.

inconel | 19 december 2017

In hard rains the tires have to spend energy moving away the standing water that acts like resistance proportional to the square of speed.

tes-s | 19 december 2017

I get what you're asking for, but I think it is less useful than you think.

Past performance does not guarantee future results. :)

StatsApp | 19 december 2017

For EU cars, “Typical” tends to be a more realistic measure. I don’t have a EU car (I’m in U.S.), but I learned this from my European users of my iOS app “Stats for Tesla”.

EVRider | 19 december 2017

I guess there’s some confusion about terminology here. As @Bighorn said, “rated range” is a static number based on your battery size, and “estimated range” is what you see typically see displayed in the lower left of the instrument panel (unless you’ve configured that to show something else); it’s my understanding that estimated range accounts for driving conditions. I’ve found the estimated range to be accurate enough.

p.c.mcavoy | 19 december 2017

@EVRider - In the US, the value shown in the lower left of the instrument panel is either rated range or ideal range depending upon what you set in the on the Controls > Settings > Units & Format screen. Both rated miles and ideal miles in the US are based upon constants and are NOT adjusted based upon your recent driving history.

Neither of these options that can be shown in the main Instrument Panel account for recent driving conditions, but are based upon fixed constants.

The value which does vary based upon your recent driving history in on the main screen, on the energy app, you will see a estimated range value on the right side of the screen. If you have selected Average, then the value you will see is based upon your average Wh/mi for the history shown (5, 15, or 30 miles). If you have it set to Instantaneous, then it is based not on the average, but what you are using right them.

I'm not a well versed on the exact terms used for the EU versions as I've never studied that version of the owners manual.

NKYTA | 19 december 2017

But yet you both are in agreement. :-)

p.c.mcavoy | 19 december 2017

@NKYTA - What I was reacting to in EVRider's post was his statement that '... and “estimated range” is what you see typically see displayed in the lower left of the instrument panel ...'.

Estimated range is only shown in the energy app on the main screen. It is not one of the options available for display on the instrument cluster by the battery icon.

NKYTA | 19 december 2017

Forget left or right, for the moment.

The takeaway here is that for multiple, long, road trips, those with US cars are doing fine. ??

If you don’t use supercharge.info, or evtripplanner, you are a bit stunted.

I use rated range, as an indicator, as I did long ago. It works for me.

marekbukal | 20 december 2017

@3T35LA true Cezh Republic ! Kudos for investigation :-)

@p.c.mcavoy absoliutely agree. Estimated range on the instrument panel (left panel) is always constant and are NOT adjusted based upon your recent driving history. This is the "challenge" for Tesla.

The driver should be able to have a option to set the "real distance" respectively "projected range" in Tesla speak which adjusted based upon driving history, if such setting exists, i think. Otherwise with actual options, are static estimate range is useless for me.

DonS | 20 december 2017

I find "Ideal" range to be a useless number. I often use "Rated" range with my own de-rating factor of 80-85% to make quick estimates.

When using navigation, the energy graph will show an estimate of battery left when reaching the destination. The great feature of using navigation, even if you know the way, is that it will make real-time updates based on how much energy is actually being used. If you encounter strong winds or have a lead foot, the planned graph will diverge from the current graph. If the current graph looks like energy at the destination will only be 5-6%, then I may need to slow down or add a charging stop.

tes-s | 20 december 2017

How long have you had your car? I think you will find your metric is not as helpful as you think.

Keep your energy screen on for a few weeks and watch the "projected range" number for a few weeks. I think you'll find it less useful than you think most of the time. If you do a few short trips in cold weather and have 80% battery left, it may show you have 100 miles of "real distance" when rated would show 200 miles. After coming down out of the mountains, it may show you have 200 miles of range, when rated shows 100 miles.

marekbukal | 20 december 2017

@DonS if i use "Rated" range a de-rating by 20% it works +- :-) In navigation it works fine for me, because car use "Projected" range base on real driving history.

@tes-s OK i try it :-)

EVRider | 20 december 2017

I thought the instrument panel display started off with rated range after charging, but adjusted for driving conditions as you drove. I stand corrected.

Rocky_H | 20 december 2017

Tesla terminology is pretty weird and confusing between the North American and European displays. In the U.S., they have:
"Ideal" (high) and "Rated"(low)
In Europe, they have:
"Rated"(high) and "Typical"(low)

The term of rated miles or rated kilometers being used for either the low or high number, depending on where you are is very confusing.

Using an estimated projection in the front battery meter display doesn't make much sense, because that really is supposed to be a battery meter. It's a % full that you have an option of switching to a different kind of unit. How full the battery is doesn't change based on your driving style and conditions.

PatientFool | 20 december 2017

Thats right op i in EU thus in his case Rated is based off of the fixed EPA number. In the US (i.e. in my case), Rated is based no recent driving. At any rate, doesn't everyone just set their battery display to % anyways and their car to typical(eu)/rated(us)? Works perfectly..

Rocky_H | 20 december 2017

@PatientFool, Quote: "Thats right op i in EU thus in his case Rated is based off of the fixed EPA number."

Well, the agency is the NEDC there, not EPA, but sure.

Quote: "In the US (i.e. in my case), Rated is based on recent driving."

No, it's not. @Bighorn already corrected you on this previously in this thread.

billUK | 22 december 2017

I believe that the EU rated range is based on driving in summer (without A/C) at around 55 mph (89 kph). It seems to correspond to a consumption of about 250 Wh/mile whereas the typical range seems to be based on a consumption of about 300 Wh/mile. If you display the energy app on the main screen it calculated the range based on your last 5, 15 or 30 miles.

The consumption on my car has averaged 280 Wh/mile so neither rated nor typical are better than +-10%. The continuous display is reflects any hills that you have gone up or down so it changes continuously.
What I am in effect saying is pick for example Typical range and see/learn how your driving style compares to that and apply a mental correction factor.

Haggy | 22 december 2017

Tesla gives me the information I need, but in terms of the battery icon, I can see rated miles or ideal miles, when I really need projected miles if I want something useful. I've had the car long enough that I'm used to the way it does things, but I also can't look at the number of remaining miles in the battery icon and expect it to represent actual remaining range.

sklancha | 23 december 2017

This sounds so much more complicated and less useful when ya'll explain it.

Maybe the tools provided in the Tesla are not all that useful - and I'm just to ignorant to realize it.

Personally, I routinely put just about all my local and distant trips in the neavigation, which provides an amazingly accurate prediction of how much enegy I will use. I generally leave my battery display set at 'ideal,' as this gives a good estimate of how far I can push the car, if needed. I use 'rated when traveling in rain or new and unknown territory. This has served me well, and I usually can comfotably run the car down to 5 or 10 miles of ideal range (more, in bad weather).

And- for those explaining the 'rated range as a constant... I don't get it. If the car is fully charged, and you start driving up a mountain, with the heat cranking and the wind blowing- the displayed estimated range drops way faster than the distance traveled. Since I know at least some of you are seasoned travelers, I'm guessing I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

Angel

p.c.mcavoy | 23 december 2017

@sklancha (Angel)- re the rated range is a constant comment.

What I mean when I state that is that is rated range is battery percent or SOC times a constant. Rated range at 40% battery SOC will be half want rated range was a 80% battery SOC. no matter how you have driven between 80% and 40%.

Your example of driving up a mountain is that the energy required to move the car a fixed distance depends on many factors. I agree totally with that, but that’s the same as saying the %battery SOC used to drive a set distance depends upon factors like how you drive, how high you have the heat cranked, and whether you’re going uphill.

Not sure if that explanation helps you or not. I would not say you are too ignorant to understand the tools the car provides. I agree with you that the trip display in the energy app generally provides a good projection of remaining battery SOC when I will reach a destination. I think you understand those tools well and sound like you use them very effectively.

Enjoy your car.

sklancha | 23 december 2017

Thx @p.c.mcavoy.

Rocky_H | 26 december 2017

@sklancha, I noticed you switched terminology in the middle of your comment, which actually refers to two different display locations in the car.

Quote: " I generally leave my battery display set at 'ideal,' as this gives a good estimate of how far I can push the car, if needed. I use 'rated when traveling in rain or new and unknown territory."

That is for the battery meter that is directly in front of you, behind the steering wheel. You can pick between "ideal" or "rated", and it is just doing a fixed conversion of battery %.

Quote: "And- for those explaining the 'rated range as a constant... I don't get it. If the car is fully charged, and you start driving up a mountain, with the heat cranking and the wind blowing- the displayed estimated range drops way faster than the distance traveled."

Now, you are talking about a different display that is not the battery meter behind the steering wheel. In the Energy app on the center touch screen, you can view the average energy usage for the past 5, 15, or 30 miles, and then on the right side of that graph, it will show you an "estimated range" left that is based on that recent average energy usage. That takes everything into account because it is based on your real energy usage, but it is also predictive, so it can vary a lot if your current driving situation changes.

EVRider | 26 december 2017

@Rocky: I think @sklancha was referring to the battery meter in both cases, but observing that the range displayed next to the battery SOC was dropping faster than actual miles travelled, which would be expected under those conditions.

Pungoteague_Dave | 26 december 2017

It is possible to achieve rated rage in almost any conditions, but it requires very careful modulation of acceleration, and more chill, willingness to drive below speed limits at times. Exceptions are extremely low temps. With the proliferation of supercharges, range in a fully charged car is now nearly irrelevant, except in places like Montana.

sklancha | 26 december 2017

@Rocky- @EVRider is right- I was referring to the mileage displayed next to the battery meter in both examples.

For example, if I leave home with a full battery, and have the display set to show me 'ideal' miles- It would probably say something like 295. If I drive 150 miles, all uphill- I don't think the display is going to show me an estimated 145 "ideal" miles left. That was my [initial] interpretation of the 'displayed range as a constant.

Bighorn | 26 december 2017

Constant refers to a defined number of Watt-hours per rated or ideal mile.

sklancha | 26 december 2017

yeah, yeah, yeah... I got it. So, I'm a little slow, sometimes, but I got it [eventually].

Rocky_H | 26 december 2017

@sklancha, Well, yeah. That's because of what @Bighorn mentioned. The "rated" number is a very medium easy-going usage constant. When I drive my 2 mile work commute in winter mornings, it will use up 4 or 5 rated miles because of massive heater use in the cold. So of course it's not always going to be counting down 1 to 1.

SteveZzz | 26 december 2017

Well .... After putting about 10,000 km on my S100D, I have found that no matter how I judge the range number on the lower left of the small screen, or use the energy app, it helps me not a bit. Totally confuses me. So I now ignore both of them, especially the rated range number on the small screen. The energy app can be helpful, but not all that much. At least to me.

Instead, when I drive any serious distance, I set my navigation app to guide me to the farthest Supercharger I think I can get to with my starting state of charge. If it tells me that I can get there with no less than 20% of charge remaining, then I am satisfied. If it tells me that I will not make it there, or will make it with say, less than 20%, then I go for a closer Supercharger. And I keep an eye on this because as I drive, the remaining % of charge changes depending on my driving speed, road and weather conditions, etc. Works for me anyway.