Forums

The Mysterious Model X- what we know, are pretty sure about, and don't know updated on last page 9/4/2015

The Mysterious Model X- what we know, are pretty sure about, and don't know updated on last page 9/4/2015

What we know:

1. Reservations may still be made for $5,000 (refundable). If one reserves now, expect to be able to order sometime in 2016.
2. The MX will be built on the Model S frame, sharing the same battery pack structure. The body will be higher than the MS and a few inches longer.
3. The MX will have Falcon Wing rear doors.
4. The MX will have three rows of seats. The third row will initially be optional unless there is a change at Tesla. The second and third rows of seats will fold flat.
5. The MX will not have a panoramic roof.
6. The MX will use side view mirrors like the Model S.
7. The MX will have two drive units, front and rear
8. With comparable drive units and battery packs to the MS the MX will have less rated range than the MS
9. Initial software will at least be a version of 6.2.
10. There will be an optional towing hitch.

What will probably be true based on anecdotal evidence.
1. base price of the MX will be less than 10% more than a comparably equipped MS.
2. height of the MX with FW doors open will be about 85 inches.
3. initial battery pack offerings will be 70 and 85 kWh shared with the MS.
4. three versions: 70D, 85D, and P85D, sharing MS drive units.
5. weight of the MX will be a little more than 5,000 pounds, about 200 pounds more than the MS
6. rated range of the MX 70 will be slightly over 200 miles. The 85 will go about 240 miles. The P85 a little less than the 85.
7. The brakes, touchscreen control center, instrument cluster display, steering wheel and associated controls, door handles, battery management and charging equipment, frunk mechanism, sun visors, foot pedals, autopilot hardware and front seats will likely be shared with the MS.
8. Software will likely be a version of 7.0.
9. some sort of pass through arrangement for skis inside the passenger compartment.
10. FW doors will have remote controlled operation and programmable height adjustment.
11. There will be cupholders for the second and third row seats. Seats will accommodate standard child seats.
12. First deliveries in July or August 2015 for signature reservations in CA. Big party.
13. Performance Model: 0-60 in 3.5 seconds
14. Colors will be same as for MS.
15. Safety ratings will be high but maybe a little worse than the MS for side impact because of the FW doors

Pure speculation:

1. second row seats will probably slide forward when folded flat to ease third row entry.
2. no rear window wiper or washer.
3. sun visors will likely include lighted vanity mirrors.
4. standard storage bin between the driver and front seat passenger positions.
5. second row of seats will have adjustable reclining backs and a fold down center arm rest.
6. independent climate control for the rear passenger compartments.
7. provision for an optional spare tire and jack, possibly requiring removal of the third row of seats.
8. some sort of "Rube Goldberg" roof rack option.
9. improved or augmented autopilot hardware peripherals (rear facing radar, longer range sonar and the like.)
10 an option for full time, programmable surround video cameras with wireless access.

georgehawley.fl.us | 21. april 2015

Oops. 7. Shared with the MS

ernie | 21. april 2015

Looks good to me...just wanted 3.0 to 60, but will live with slower. Don't ski, don't care, but do like the fold down I have seen and no third row of seats. Since I will back into the garage, the height is no problem up to 108" for me. Most will be looking at 96" probably.

Now...pray we don't have to deal with Climate Change in this thread. My gosh, we are [for the most part] all looking to help improve the environment and have the best transportation we can buy for the buck in the EV market. PLEASE PLEASE....

vandacca | 21. april 2015

@georgehawley, Thanks for compiling this list! I have some comments on the 3 sections:

A. "What we know":

5. The MX will not have a panoramic roof.
I thought that the MX would come standard with a panoramic roof? The front windshield seems to extend all the way to the B-pillar and the falcon doors has lots of glass over-head, so I thought this would qualify as a panoramic roof.

6. The MX will use side view mirrors like the Model S.
I wouldn't feel confident with such a statement. Tesla hasn't provided any official word on this yet and I wonder if they will find a way to circumvent the law, assuming that it isn't changed prior to release. I would have put this in the "probably true" section.

B. "Probably True"
7. The brakes, touchscreen control center, ... sun visors, foot pedals, autopilot hardware and front seats will likely be shared with the MX
I wonder if the sun visors will only be mounted to the A-pillar, possibly in a different fashion, due to the large windscreen and potentially lack of a cross-member.

C. "Pure Speculation"
5. second row of seats will have adjustable reclining backs and a fold down center arm rest.
I would be surprised if there is a fold-down center arm rest with the standard seats. All the images I've seen thus far didn't show such a feature. However, with the Executive 2nd row seat option, I would most definitely believe that there will be such an arm rest.

In fact, I would probably put having an "Executive 2nd Row Seat" option under the "Probably True" section.

Just a few nit-picky points which I'm sure you can either ignore or disagree with. :)

georgehawley.fl.us | 21. april 2015

The beauty of this forum is that nothing anyone says really matters:-))

To your point, Dan. Your definition of panoramic is more accurate than mine. I'm was just thinking of the version in the MS. To whit:

pan·o·ram·ic
ˌpanəˈramik/
adjective
(of a view or picture) with a wide view surrounding the observer; sweeping.
"on a clear day there are panoramic views"
synonyms: sweeping, wide, extensive, scenic, commanding

The X appears to have an upswept windshield that wraps over the top toward the FW doors. I think you are quite correct to call that panoramic. I believe that structural integrity will require a cross beam but that is not my field of expertise.

Re: second row seats: I was speculating based on Elon's lavish praise of the design.

Faster? Yikes! Today I pulled onto I75, our favorite, local version of suicide alley. There was a clear opening in the fast lane with only an oncoming dump truck as a potential obstacle. Stepped on the accelerator and smoothly, instantly I was in the selected lane with the truck far behind in the rear view mirror. What a car! It was like time stood still for everyone else. And it's only a doggy old S85.

Red Sage ca us | 21. april 2015

2A) Technically, the BMW 5-Series uses a stretched version of the 3-Series frame, and the 7-Series uses an extended version of the 5-Series frame. Place those frames side-by-side and they are obviously different from each other. Examine them closely, and certain design elements will be similar, or shared, between them. The Model S dual motor AWD frames are VERY different from the single motor RWD versions. Similarly, the Model S 'D' frame is not a 'drop a new body on it' match for the Model X frame. These aren't slot cars, or top fuel dragsters.

5A) I am certain the Model X will offer a panoramic roof. It is just not likely there will be a sliding panel to open the front row to the elements. Remember, the Model X prototypes featured a panoramic roof. It is likely the test mules have their entire rooflines camouflaged.

6A) I would say the Model X has been 'made ready' to use exterior rearview mirrors if necessary, due to US Federal law or International regulations. I believe that Tesla Motors' intent is to release the Model X with rearview cameras on the exterior, where ever allowed. That may require an exemption from NHTSA in the US.

4B) Since there will be no single motor RWD versions of Model X, I would be surprised if the trim levels for it get 'D' designations at all. All those people who insist they must be able to tow 10,000+ lbs, up a 6% grade, in hub-deep snow, in -20° F weather, at 90+ MPH, through at least 350 miles, and still have a 20% reserve 'in case if emergency' will be sorely disappointed if nothing more than an 85 kWh battery pack is available for Model X.

14B) I think the Model X may get a couple of exclusive colors to begin with... A Signature Red and a Signature Green, at least. If Signature buyers are allowed, they may also partake of custom colors.

15A) Side impact tests are made with a strike to the driver's door. I don't anticipate any issues there. The specific testing results may be lower, here or there, for the Model X, but I still expect it to get a five star rating in every category, as find Model S.

georgehawley.fl.us | 21. april 2015

@Red: all good points. I bow to your superior knowledge of automobile design.
One important item I forgot is adjustable height seat belts. My wife sits a lot lower than I do. The seat belt in the MS cuts across her neck. This is a must have for the X.

AlMc | 21. april 2015

Great thread starter @George!

I would add that there is a distinct possibility that the X will have a 100KW battery pack, will have the 7.0 software that will be in the model S by late summer and the second row seats nearest the doors will swivel sideways to allow for easier access to a child seat.

In addition the steering wheel will have some touch screen controls versus the 'rollers' on the S and the Main touch screen will have LTE.

georgehawley.fl.us | 22. april 2015

@AlMc: I'm a little confused by a touchscreen control on the steering wheel. If it is on the steering wheel, how can it touch the screen?

New 100 kWh or whatever battery pack would be very popular but not likely based on past statements by Elon.
Maybe next year. Speaking of next, next week the 3rd quarter will be only 31 days away. It seems like just last yesteryear that I made my reservation. :-)

PMadFlyer | 22. april 2015

The buttons on the wheel are replaced by small touch screens.

georgehawley.fl.us | 22. april 2015

Touché'

vandacca | 22. april 2015

Handy for when you want to screen your calls.

ernie | 22. april 2015

Speak for yourself georgehawleyetc...It seems like YEARS that I made my reservation. Wait a minute it is a year and a fraction. At my age...I hope that it will be "walker friendly" by the time I get it....HOPE December at the latest!!!

I will be fine with 85 kWh no matter where I want to drive...as long as the Superchargers are functional when I venture from home. I will be doing most of the charging at work...39.6% tax write off...and home is 28.5 miles away. Although I have solar panels, the PUD pays $0.15 for my surplus and my cost at work is $08 less 39.6% tax write off. Seems like a "no brainer" to me. I might never retire and lose the write off!

ernie | 22. april 2015

Make that $0.008 kWh

ernie | 22. april 2015

Let's face it...either decimal point challenged or my typing is bad when I use my walker to hit the keys... $0.08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian H | 22. april 2015

Hope It's True

1. Much better 3rd row ventilation, shielding, and cooling.

georgehawley.fl.us | 22. april 2015

@ernie: you're just a kid. I have already asked the nursing home for a charging station in the event that I am actually still alive when the X arrives.

@Brian: agree. That's why the reference to separate rear seat climate control. Shielding? Possibly you are referring to dimming the sun's radiation through the rear window. This may be an issue for kiddies facing rearward in the S but I think will be less of a problem with the X as the window will be more vertical and the passengers in the third row will be facing forward and will be shielded (oh, I get it.) by the seat backs and head rests.

Lucythesplainer | 22. april 2015

Thanks to @georgehawley.fl.us for compiling all the data!
This is a nice complement to the spy videos and autonomous driving teasers
I'm hoping the MX comes through while my gas hog trade is still worth something.
I've never wished for summer to pass quickly before.

raffael s. | 23. april 2015

Thanks George, nice to see what each individual thinks the MX will be ;)
3 things I would like to mention:
1. I think there will be some kind of special signature color, like @Red said.
2. 0-60 will be 5-15% more than the Ms, because of less power to weight and drag. But it is hard to say how fast the S P85D will be, when the X comes out. Still it will be a lot faster than all competing SUVs.
3. I would assume the interior of both the S and the X will change, from what we have now. Maybe just a little, maybe a little bit more. But they had to redesign the whole interior for the X. If they had a good idea they missed 3 years ago, it will find its way into the S, if possible. (Touch pads on the steering wheel ,some kind of storage unit to replace the bin, Updated touchscreen, I don't really know but the concept they used for the X at CES had some different and cool design features, why should they throw them away?)

PMadFlyer | 23. april 2015

Can you imagine the reaction if they put the "2.8" SP85D 0-60 update on the XP85D and made it have the same 3.1 0-60 as the SP85D? That would be a mind blowing opening to the deliveries. "Here, we set up a drag strip, now why don't you give your new Model X a try?"

That seems like something Tesla would do.

raffael s. | 23. april 2015

@PMF even 3.5 would be astonishing. I looked up some direct competitors: the Porsche Cayenne TurboS makes the 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, a BMW X5/6 gets there in 4 seconds, the GL 63AMG takes 4.8, Range Rover Sport 5.0, the Audi Q7 (3.0 TFSI) 7.7 and the Lexus LX 7.8. These are the main competitors, if the beat the Porsche they won, especially since the Porsche is smaller and can't fit 7 people. If they could bring it down to 3.1 it would be even more impressive but wouldn't really make any difference. The X P85D, if thats what they will call it, will be the quickest SUV on the market.

vandacca | 23. april 2015

Considering that Tesla currently only sells 1 single motor vehicle (S85), I predict that they will drop the "D" once they discontinue the S85. I predict that all Tesla vehicles will eventually be dual-motors.

Since all Model-X have dual motors, I see no reason why to append the "D" at all, so I would expect it to be called X-70, X-85 and X-P85. Assuming that the battery packs match the current Model-S. I in fact think that they'll introduce a bigger batter pack (e.g. X-100).

timf2001 | 23. april 2015

I doubt Tesla will ever drop the "D" designator. Virtually every car on the road with AWD has some type of marking on the vehicle to designate that it has AWD, even if the car is only sold with AWD. For Tesla, this is the "D" badge, and will always designate newer AWD-equipped vehicles from older RWD ones.

vandacca | 23. april 2015

That is a good point, @timf2001. You may be right. However, Subaru only makes AWD vehicles and their name has become synonymous with AWD. I wonder if Tesla plans to do the same?

ian t.wa.us | 23. april 2015

Subaru doesn't just make AWD vehicles any longer. The BRZ is RWD.

I could see Tesla dropping the D though and making just AWD vehicles. I hope they keep one RWD option though for those enthusiasts that enjoy the RWD experience.

proven | 23. april 2015

They could save money by dropping the "D" and adding a "R" to the one RWD model!

georgehawley.fl.us | 23. april 2015

The S85 will be discontinued this year.
The D will not be dropped for the S because that would cause confusion with all the S85s on the road.
The nomenclature will be inconsistent because the X will have no D.
The ≡ may only have a single drive unit initially to keep parts cost down. Maybe FWD.

Disclaimer:
The above should be treated as speculative predictions, not pronouncements.

vperl | 23. april 2015

MX P105D

Wait for it.

vperl | 23. april 2015

MX P105D

Wait for it.

georgehawley.fl.us | 24. april 2015

We are all experts at waiting. No point waiting for a new battery pack. That's something that can be popped on in a couple of minutes when available, if one needs it badly enough.

raffael s. | 24. april 2015

I don't think they drop the D badge with the Model X. Because someday, in the not to distant future, the more powerful newer batteries(with of course more energy) will come, prices will drop and there still will be people, who happily pay more money, for more power. So what would I do if I were Tesla? Put in 4 of those 250+hp motors, describe it as the most sophisticated all wheel drive: safest ,most efficient, insanely powerful, and superb handling.
A 1000hp Model S/X! I once had the chance to drive the SLS electric drive. 4 motors really improve handling! So now we have the product but how should we call it? P1xxQ? So don't drop the D! It will have its use, showing inferiority, to those who bought the Q(or what ever they call it).

carlk | 24. april 2015

I believel pano roof is a done deal. Also Elon mentioned 7.0 will be released with the MX.

danny | 24. april 2015

georgehawley... Agreed, after watching what Tesla did for upgrading the Roadster, there is little chance that Model S and Model X chassis don't participate in upgradeable battery packs for a good long while (at least a decade or more).

Historically, I buy cars on a 6-10 year cycle.

Much like Moore's observation (not a law) in semiconductors, the idea that one would delay a purchase over a minor (<<30%) upgrade in capacity is unbalanced. We're in a place right now in batteries where one may expect a regular %% annual increase in capacity.

Iowa92x | 24. april 2015

Large pack will be > 85 kWh.

georgehawley.fl.us | 24. april 2015

@danny: since the MS and MX are unlikely to rust out, will look good for many years, will not likely require major overhauls for decades, I am thinking that, as long as they keep refreshing the software the cars are going to be worth owning and driving for far more than your 6-10 year cycle. With a battery pack upgrade at maybe 10 and 20 years the cars will be eminenlly usable well into the 2040s. Therefore, we are adding the Tesla to the family trust as a long term fungible asset for one of our heirs. The one who gets it will be the one that takes the best care of old Dad. That should be a motivator. :-))

vperl | 25. april 2015

Watch your back, kids now a daze feel they are entitled, and will take what they will.

Good lucko

Brian H | 25. april 2015

george;
eminently

georgehawley.fl.us | 25. april 2015

Got me Brian.

Combination of inadequate proof reading and poor hand-eye coordination on iPad keyboard.

vperl | 25. april 2015

And the use of iOS products.

georgehawley.fl.us | 27. april 2015

@vperl: yes, the iPad tries to help. It often thinks it knows more than me but it is "oh, so wrong". That's why I have to get better at proof reading.

BTW, I will be in Fremont in a couple of weeks. Is there anything anyone needs or wishes me to do while there?

vandacca | 27. april 2015

georgehawley, while you're in Fremont, can you please watch the 2002 film, "Austin Powers Goldmember", and pay particular attention to Michael Caine's character. I think you'll know what to do next...

Red Sage ca us | 27. april 2015

You could also do the Time Warp again...

Hmmm... 'D' used as a designator, similar to AUDI's quattro, and BMW's xDrive? Maybe.

georgehawley.fl.us | 27. april 2015

D is reDunDant. Remove D and save over $1/car.

@Dan: Austin Powers? You need a new hobby.:-))

Someone can't get enough Tesla stock today. They can't have mine.

Iowa92x | 27. april 2015

When people are saying Tesli won't rust out...there is more than aluminum body involved here. Steel screws, steel brackets, steel fasteners, other steel can and will rust.

aesculus | 27. april 2015

Unless it's stainless steel :-)

georgehawley.fl.us | 27. april 2015

@iowa: last time I checked the frame of the MS (today at 11 AM) I found neither structural steel nor steel fasteners. Some of the little motors that do things like power steering may have steel housings but they are easily replaced. There is some steel reinforcing inside the aluminum frame members but not accessible for water. I'll take a closer look next time but I'm accepting of the fact that I probably won't live long enough to know the truth of the matter. No rust for me even after a bevy of Iowa winters.

georgehawley.fl.us | 27. april 2015

BTW: when I think of rust out, I think of a 1982 Alfa-Romeo that one of my sons used to drive around Boston. He took it to the Magliozzi brothers in Cambridge of Car Talk fame before selling. They started laughing and said there was so much rust that the car was likely to break in half. Tesla MS? Not gonna happen.

georgehawley.fl.us | 01. kan 2015

I am adding an LTE mobile phone transceiver is a probable feature of the X.

vperl | 01. kan 2015

5 G LTE

500 mile extension cord.

My MX by end January 2016

georgehawley.fl.us | 01. kan 2015

@vperl: I hope you are wrong and get yours in November.

vperl | 01. kan 2015

Gorgie, I doubt it actually a place xpectvit in March-April

Pages