New Website section: Charging....

New Website section: Charging....

NeoExacun | 12. juni 2012

The describtion of the new HPWC says that it only supports single phase.
I'm german, i don't get 100A from one phase, what's about triple phase support?

Volker.Berlin | 12. juni 2012

Three-phase support has been confirmed for Europe. Details will be made available in advance of the European deliveries.

NeoExacun | 12. juni 2012

I don't get access to the linked site, but i'm really relieved. Thx for your answer :)

BYT | 12. juni 2012

From what Elon said in the Shareholder meeting, the Model S will be able to adapt to any source of electricity you plug it into and he emphasized ANY! If you have an adapter for it, you can plug into it is how I understand that statement to be translated to Europeanize! ;)

EdG | 12. juni 2012

@BYT: While I'm sure he intends to make fast charging available everywhere, adapters won't cut it going from a single phase to a 3 phase circuit. You need more than different shapes and spaces for plug blades, you need specialized circuitry/wiring.

prash.saka | 12. juni 2012

@phb, thanks for posting. I wish it contained information of how much the supercharging hardware will cost for the 60kw model. Nevertheless, this is good for now.

~ Prash.

ThomasN | 12. juni 2012

Dont try looking at that page with an iPhone . It constantly resets to the top.

BYT | 12. juni 2012

The impression I got was that it should work, anything you plug into the Model S it will adapt to. Check out the Shareholder meeting on June 6, 2012 video and judge for yourself. I admit I don't know a lot about multiphase charging yet, but what Elon said seems very black and white to me.

Video link and time stamps around battery and charging in general:
23:00 he talks about the Supercharger network very briefly and with excitement around it
30:30 a shareholder asks about the battery and what tech to keep an eye out for where Elon steered toward answering about the battery tech in general and real world expectations (~4 minutes on it)
34:22 questions about home charging and solar and any connections to SpaceX and he answers the argument around electricity generation being dirty as well
41:40 battery swap technology question and how soon
52.30 is the question that I mentioned the answer too previously about the charging system standards and "adapting to any current and voltage that you feed into it" (paraphrasing this)

Norbert.Vienna | 12. juni 2012

even with my ultrabook it constantly resets to the top

jbunn | 12. juni 2012

Doesnt work on sony android tablet. Constantly resets to the top. Bad testing.

Volker.Berlin | 12. juni 2012

Regardless of what Elon said during the shareholder meeting, three-phase charging was explicitly confirmed for the European Model S prior to (and at) the Geneva Motor Show in March 2012. That seems sufficient to me.!/TeslaMotors/status/176999624169623552

astraussmd | 12. juni 2012

I have a non-Tesla 240 V charging station in my garage for my Roadster > when will the adapter be available so that I can charge both my wife's (early Fall?) Model S and the Roadster from the same charger? Will there be a Supercharger adapter for the Roadster?

CurrieG | 12. juni 2012

The page even resets to the top on my Windows 7 PC... It must have a bug! Hope it gets fixed soon!

cerjor | 12. juni 2012

My problem is that level 3 chargers along the West Coast Green Highway, which is along I-5 from the Canadian border to the Mexican one, are not compatible with the Tesla. They use the CHAdeMO protocol which I have been told by my TM rep that would be difficult to adapt to the Model S. With CHAdeMO chargers being located every 50 or so miles apart along this highway, it seems to me that it would be less expensive for TM to utilize them instead of installing their own chargers.

HaroldS | 12. juni 2012

The charging page also does not work with Firefox. I'm running Firefox 13.0 on a Windows 7 system. The page works perfectly with Microsoft's Internet Explorer (ughh!) on this same OS, tho.

dborn | 12. juni 2012

works fine on Safari in OSX. no good on the iPad 2.

Brian H | 12. juni 2012

Works OK on FireFox on XP Pro.

Brian H | 12. juni 2012

Elon sez the "standard" is a poor one, not able to handle what TM products require. A lowest common denominator solution.

olanmills | 13. juni 2012

I guess I haven't been paying much attention. I did not realize that the charge rate for a standard 110v outlet would be so low (the page says 5 miles of range per hour of charging).

At that rate, there will definitely be some nights where I arrive home late and won't be able to fully charge again before I leave in the morning. Now with 230 or 300 miles of range, that really isn't that big of a deal. I would definitely have time on the weekend to recover the full charge. Still, that is not what I was expecting.

I was not planning on installing a 240v outlet in my garage because I am uncertain of how much longer I'll be living in my current house. Now I am considering it, but if someone could answer these questions, I'd really appreciate it. There's still some aspects I'm not totally clear on.

It seems that having the Twin Chargers does not provide any benifit unless you also have the High Power Wall Connector. Is that true?

In the first section on the Charging page, if you click the right arrow, it says they recommend installing the High Power Wall Connector OR a 240v outlet. Does the High Power Wall Connector need to be installed by an electrician? Or is it just something I can take and plug in?

If it's not something that needs to be installed into the wall and power circuits, does that mean that the High Power Wall Connecter can be used with a normal 110v outlet?

Schlermie | 13. juni 2012

Twin chargers still have a benefit without the high power charger. They enable faster charging on the road if you happen to come across a high amperage J1772 charging station.

EdG | 13. juni 2012

You don't get something for nothing.

Using a normal 110v outlet, you can use a 1000 watt hair dryer, but not two of them or you'll pop the circuit breaker. 100v times 10 amps is 1000 watts.

If you are using 220v at 10 amps, you are pulling twice as much.
If you then go to 220v at 20 amps, you're getting 4x the standard 110v (using 10 amps).
Go to 220v at 50 amps and you get 10x the power.

The High Power Wall Connector pulls even more. But it doesn't plug into a 100v outlet, because pulling more would pop a 20amp 110v circuit breaker very quickly. Yes, you need an electrician to put one in.

If you want to charge your car twice as fast, you have to put in twice as much juice in the same amount of time. You'll need an electrician to supply you with more juice if all you have is the standard 110v outlet.

So, to charge up from 10% to 90% of your battery, you have to put in the same amount of energy (and pay the same money) no matter what kind of outlet you're using. Some outlets provide the energy faster than others.

Teoatawki | 14. juni 2012

As to finding a high amperage J1772 charger in the wild, I don't think they are extremely rare right now. Hopefully they will be more common in the future.

VolkerP | 14. juni 2012

I faked an EU preview of the charge calculator section. Enjoy!

foto | 14. juni 2012

Nice! How can I play with it?

Volker.Berlin | 14. juni 2012

Very nice. Could you please also fake the European Options & Pricing page to say that 3~ support comes standard? :-) And while you're at it, throw in motorized folding mirrors... (*now* we are off topic! ;-)

Brian H | 14. juni 2012

Wow! Expensive!
Here's the closest I can get for Vancouver, Canada, to your figures (note that 1.08 Euros is ~$1.42 here):

VolkerP | 15. juni 2012

Brian H,

Residential electricity prices are high here in Germany because we have to pay for all that "renewable energy" scams :-)

Brian H | 15. juni 2012

Actually, the US is in for it, too. On another blog, a reader comments:

Unreformed Skeptic says:
June 14, 2012 at 9:49 pm

Response to Clyde (June 11 at 11:05am), looking for the company that recently conducted an auction for power in the year 2015. That would be PJM Interconnection, website They serve 13 states in the northeast and midwest. On May 22 there was a Fox News article about the auction.

The average price of the electrity contracted for 2015 was $136 per MW. PJM’s press release made it sound like a great deal. However, the current average 2012 price is $16 per MW. This is increase of 8.5 times (the average 2015 auction price for PA, where I live, was $167 per MW, a 10.5 times increase.) Since about 2/3 of my $150 monthly electric bill (say $100) is the generation cost, that portion will rise 10.5X to $1050 per month. My annual electric bill will rise from $1800 to (12 x 150) to $13,200 (12 x 1100) assuming the same consumption. This puts my retirement, which I have planned for next year, in jeopardy (hey, maybe I just need to keep working till I drop.) But what happens to those living on the edge of poverty now?

These are not projections; this is the price for the contracted power. It’s a done deal. The Fox News report said PJM attributed almost all the cost increase to the rapid retirement of numerous coal-fired plants and the resulting need to purchase much higher priced gas and renewable-generated power. And this, of course, is attributable to our dear president and the perverted and politically correct science upon which he relies, and which is funded lavishly by governments and NGO’s around the world.

When cheap energy disappears, so does our prosperity and the very way of life we have struggled to build.

The electorate was warned: "Electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket." But they thought it was an exaggeration. Now, Reality will Bite.

pilotSteve | 15. juni 2012

Wow, the cost savings hit home today. Filled up my wife's Lexus that had driven 125 miles, cost for Premium gas at $3.99/gal was $27. While pumping I calculated that, at $0.10/kwh (yup that's the rate in southwest Washington) my recharge for same range would be $4. Almost 1/6 (a mere 15%) of the cost. getting excited here!

Brian H | 16. juni 2012

Here in BC, gas is about $5.40/USG, and electricity 7¢/kwh, so that means the recharges here would be about 2/23 the gas cost for the same range. The gas you bought would cost ~$36.50 here, and the power $2.80. | 16. juni 2012

I installed solar panels 4 years ago & generate a little more electricity than I use (even with 2 plug-in hybrids & air conditioning). I am having Solar City do the NEMA14-50 install in July. Home charging will essentially add no cost and eliminate the $20.00 per week gas expense. I am SO looking forward to not supporting the oil & gas industry with my personal funds...

Teoatawki | 16. juni 2012

Anyone know if there is an adapter for the mobile connector so one can charge from a Roadster HPC? I have been eagerly anticipating a charge/munch stop at the burgerville in centralia since I discovered there was a charger there.

Rod and Barbara | 16. juni 2012

We were told in April by two different Tesla reps that a Roadster HPC to Model S adaptor is in design and expected to be available when Model S deliveries begin. However, we have not heard anything since then. Probably time to ask for an update. We have a Roadster and intend to charge our Model S using the Roadster HPC.

Brian H | 16. juni 2012

I wonder if there'll be a reverse adapter: charge a Roadster on an S HPC.

dborn | 16. juni 2012

Electricity in Australia has just gone up 18% across the board , at least 50% of which is due to our idiot government pandering to the Greens and introducing a "carbon dioxide tax" of $23 per tonne to the major polluters, who, in the main, are the electricity generators.
A shocking statistic that came out this past week, is the that the State of South Australia will have the most expensive electricity in the WORLD come July 1.
My solar panel installation currently only produces about 20% of my household consumption, and was installed in an effort to mitigate my electricity bills. regrettably, i cannot install a larger system because of space/aspect constraints, so, unless there is dramatic improvement in panel efficiency to well above the current +- 20% per panel, i am stuck.

ddruz | 16. juni 2012

dborn, Do you have the option of installing panels on the ground in your yard? I have seen that done very effectively for folks who are out of roof space.

EdG | 17. juni 2012

Interesting that they don't consider ICE car drivers "major polluters" and tax the fuel (proportionately to electricity suppliers) for polluting just as much or more per gallon burned fuel.

dborn | 17. juni 2012

EdG - it is called "politics". Riots in the streets in Australia, we can do without...

EdG | 17. juni 2012

Understood. But interesting.