Maybe time to buy a Raven....
Raven is a significant enough change even it's not the "refresh" people have in mind. Just like the follow up question answered If you want the best Tesla model S or X you will be waiting forever.
Are the shorts trying a new tactic by spreading rumors of impending refresh to slow Tesla sales?
Semantics. Change is constant at Tesla. I’m waiting for October.
What I decided to do, too Madatgascar. Wait and see.
I really like the dual display in my current X, am not a fan of the minimalist look of the M3 even if the vehicle is superior to the latest X/S's in several ways.
Musk might be playing games because you don't want to create an Osborne Effect -- sales collapsing now because everyone is waiting for the newest greatest thing. In the best of all worlds, the newer thing remains secret until the unveiling. If word gets out, then you're forced to do a lot hemming, hawing, and hedging; i.e. saying there will be continuous improvements. I don't have a problem with the current exterior of my X, it's a pretty car IMO. When I sit in other peoples' Porsches, etc, I don't see any big difference in the plush factor. And there is no such thing as Corinthian leather, remember that one?
So, no problem in waiting until October for me either.
@dmm1240 "And there is no such thing as Corinthian leather, remember that one?"
You musk E. Musk could be like Ricardo M....speaking something that could be misconstrued or not correct...LOL LOL
No refresh to a sedan or a suv, so it's time to buy a truck?
The logic is weird
Model S or X sales will be in tens of thousands a year no matter what. Model 3, Model Y or pickup sales will be hundreds of thousands a year. Robot taxis will have a market of millions of them. Tesla likely do not have unlimited fund to do everything. Can't argue with where the priority should be.
It was "Rich Corinthian Leather"
I have an Armenian friend named "Rich Corinthian." :-)
I purchased a Raven Performance Model S to replace my 2016 P90D (which my brother now very happily owns!) and I was frankly stunned by the improvements. I've always been in love with my Tesla, but man - this thing drives like a dream! It is just such an absolute joy to drive - seats, suspension, range and response are all vastly superior to the 2016.
Great to hear. I’m in the same boat looking forward to replace my 2015 P90DL with a new Performance Ludicrous in a couple of weeks.
Many people talk about a “needed refresh” but they forget all the ongoing improvements Tesla does every week.
@billvb My sentiments exactly!!!! 100% agree.
"@dmm1240 "And there is no such thing as Corinthian leather, remember that one?"
You musk E. Musk could be like Ricardo M....speaking something that could be misconstrued or not correct...LOL LOL"
What is the best way to evaluate resale value and then sell my current S. Is KBB and Edmunds capable given the constant production changes to our vehicles?
KBB and Edmunds to determine value. Not sell.
I also sold my 2016 P100D to my brother and bought a new Raven P100DL with FSD and 21" wheels. I only have a few miles on my Raven but I would say it is noticeably quieter (perhaps due to no sunroof) and it handles better due to the new suspension. I just feels tighter overall.
Wow, just wow. So the twice as expensive Model S will continue with inferior technology than the half priced Model 3 and soon to be released Model Y.
Sounds more to me like Tesla is done with the Model S & X. Will continue making both as long as they sell, but don't plan on releasing a new version of it as they are doing with the Roadster.
I was waiting for a refreshed Model S as I've already owned 4 of them and my last one felt practically the same as the first one. I like a change every few years. This was the first time I bought the same car more than once, let alone 4 times. Time to make some decisions as I can't bring myself to fork over another $100,000+ for basically the same car I had in 2012. It looks and feels dated to me (and many others). I have several 3's right now, but it's too small for me to keep long term as my personal car.
Very disappointed to hear this.
"Owned 4 of them." "have several 3s"
So one S and three 3s?
I read it as 4 S in sequence and several 3 simultaneously
People like that are ridiculously affluent.... Stop complaining. Design your own electric car. Elon needs some competition.
I think most people are misunderstanding Elon’s semantics. He says Tesla doesn’t do “Refreshes”. But there are continuous made all the time. Tesla could update the battery/charging technology any time to be 350kW compatible. We just don’t know.
However Elon won’t call it a refresh, just continuous improvement.
Those 4 may not be bought in sequence. Some of them could be bought together as the same time. Or could be more than 4 of them bought at 4 different times. He could have owned a dozen each of S and 3 or could have owned none of either.
I like @RedJ's interpretation. No "refreshes" is just no new model like other companies do. Any changes, including a new interior (although he said it will not happen this time), can be covered under continuous improvement.
Not that it has any relevancy to this post, since there were more multiple comments about when I owned what, here you go....
2013 - Model S - Sold - 2014
2014 - Model S - Sold - 2015
2015 - Model S - Lease ended 2018
2016 - Model S - Still have
2017 - four Model 3's - Four of the first 2,500 Model 3's sold from 2 year long reservations, all with 4 days at the end of 2017.
2018 - Model 3
2018 - Model 3
Still have 3 of the Model 3's and one Model S. And for those that will likely ask, some are used in my company, other's driven by family. All but one of the S's were my personal cars. I drive a lot of miles and don't keep cars past 35,000 or so miles so they can be sold while still under warranty. Who wants a 2 year old Tesla with 60,000 miles and out of warranty? Not many, at least not at a price that does force me to take a complete bath on the car. The last Model 3 purchased when the 2015 lease ended and has been used as my personal car as I had assumed we were close to a Model S refresh, if for nothing more than to bring its tech in line with the Model 3 at least. Didn't expect much in the way of the exterior based on the Model Y looking identical to the Model 3, Tesla's clearly not making any design language changes, but did expect that the interior would get a freshen up. A: Because it's dated. B: Based on various articles from so called "sources" that appeared to indicate Tesla was working on a more minimalist interior to coincide with the Model 3.
Never heard annual flipping justified as cost effective. Nuts taking that first year depreciation repeatedly. Other repeat buyers seem to be fawning over the advancements of the Raven.
I did it with two of the 10 cars. Hardly "annual flipping". 2014 offered AP, obvious reason for upgrading. Kept the 2015 for 3 years. Still have 3 of the Model 3's and one of the Model S's. Model S is 3 years old. Definitely didn't lose money on the other 3 Model 3's. The first Model S was purchased used, didn't take any "depreciation" on it. So not sure what point/criticism you were trying to make? Don't recall saying it was "cost effective" either. I said you don't take as big of bath on a car with under 35,000 miles as you would with a 60,000 mile 2 year old car. Anyway, still amazes me how opinions get formed out of thin air. LOL.
Side note: Although i didn't do it, annual flipping was part of what kept Tesla in business. Countless owners upgraded every time Tesla released a new notable feature. Read countless posts over the years of people upgrading because Tesla released a better battery late in 2013, then the 90 battery, then the performance version, then AP, then the 100 battery, then AP2, then the refreshed nose (not necessarily in chronological order), but you get the point. No major updates from late 2016 until the minor update recently, which didn't get all that many excited. But prior to that, bunches and bunches of people flipped out of the car after just a few months. The ones that always have to have the latest and greatest. In this price category, there are many of them.
You can understand the characterization looking at your progression—2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 Model Ses and the 3s are looking to be similarly paced. My 2013 is still doing great and it’s basically free to run vs $1/mile depreciation the first couple of years.
@2015P90DI - Surprised at the statement "the twice as expensive Model S will continue with inferior technology than the half priced Model 3"
What inferior tech? The current Model S has much of the tech of the model 3. The MCU was upgraded to use the same processor as the 3. The AP was upgraded to use the same processor. Then there is so much tech in the S that doesn't exist on the 3, such as 17" screen, powered liftgate, dynamic suspension, higher performance, quieter ride, and more range. The S is also a larger car, offering more space for people and cargo. The 3 does have a few cool things, such as the front airflow, but I'd rather have two screens.
Why is there no auto co tact a person from Tesla. Phones don’t have options to tal to people. Chat doesn’t work, emails don’t get answered.
Musk needs to fire all these people and start hiring again.
I bought my wife a pre owned s as we wanted free super charging off their website. We picked it up at Burbank and the put on the plate that was in the trunk. 1 year later my wife is stopped by the Chp because they did not put the month tag on the plate they put on the car.
Not only was my wife stopped n the way to work ( she supervises 500 plus) we now have to set up a meeting with those crazy DMV people, have to take a day off work to go get it fixed and make the court appearances, and pat court fees.
Check this out there is no customer complaint telephone number to tell Tesla to be more careful. Instead I spent half hour pushing buttons until I got a sales woman to answer the phone.she had rep " give me a call" . He gave me the I understand , nothing I can do for you, F off, your bothering my video game playing attitude. I told him his attitude was bullsheet and to have his manager call me. So far no call. Mush must be too damn busy to care about customer service once he has our money. Older professionals be forewarned!
You installed the plate yourself and didn’t notice it was improper? It took one year to correct and someone else had to show you? How do you remember to get dressed in the morning?
New guy to Tesla MX LR (19 JUN 2019). What constitutes a "Raven?"
@debwonglee - perhaps Elon should hire your wife.
Is "Raven" some si-fi reference?
Supposing Tesla had a major refresh in the works for MX and MS this year ; there would be no reason to publicize it. All that would do is depress sales until the the newer design came out.
The focus is to satisfy the demand for mid range luxury sedans.Next mid range SUV's. This makes it increasingly more difficult for an ICE manufacturer to get an unhindered shot at these market segments. Tesla is leaving the pickup truck market to gas/diesel guzzling manufacturers for the next 3 years. Fossil fuel large engined pickup truck drivers might often vicariously see themselves as driving big rigs. When Tesla dominates the big rig EV market they will line up in droves to get the Tesla pickup. In the meantime GMC Chev and Ford are happy to see high profit pickup sales stay steady and aren't driven by financial stress into asking politicians to limit Tesla sales to protect the industry. Big oil will have gas/diesel guzzling trucks to absorb the existing refinery output again placating them somewhat so they lso don't ask politicians to stifle Tesla.
@jordanrichard - No idea how Tesla came up with the code name Raven. It's the new version of the S/X released in March. Full rundown of all major versions/timelines here: https://teslatap.com/articles/timelines-for-vehicles-and-variants/
I thought the name referred to black car wih black interior, looks lke a raven to me
@TeslaTap, possibly Tesla has since upgraded the Model S/X. I had been waiting for news for a notable refresh, so haven't paid as close attention lately. But last I checked, the Model S was still utilizing its original hardware, which was slower and inferior to the interface in the Model 3. At least in my Dad's early 2019, using the screen in his car is still somewhat glitchy in comparison to the Model 3. Thus the Model 3 handles all the new data smoother. I will have to go check out a recent 2019 to see if there's a noticeable difference. Hopefully explained that well enough to comprehend. Not a computer guy, but the point I'm making I think is that the new hardware in terms of processing power was superior to what was in the Model S. Yes, there are more features in the Model S. No argument there, just referring primarily to the hardware that was utilized. In the cars I've compared personally, the Model 3 whips right through the menu screens effortlessly, while the Model S was slower and more glitchy by comparison. Think, iPhone 7 or 6 versus iPhone 10 or later.
Biggest thing for me is can I live with the same interior I've been driving in since 2013 for another 3 or so years? Was really looking forward to some type of an update to make it feel fresh and different. than the car built in 2012.
I just traded up from a 2015 P85D Model S, which I’ve loved for four years. I’ve been waiting for Tesla to give me a good reason to upgrade and it finally arrived. I just took delivery on a Long Range Raven Model S and it blows my mind. I used to have so many charging stops on a long trip that my back never bothered me. Now, I’m going to have to get used to driving all day. And, when I finally do stop to charge, my new car charges so fast that I don’t have time enjoy a relaxed meal without getting fee warnings telling me I have to move it! Call it what you want, but it amounts to a refresh to me. The ride, the wood dash, the seats, the Autopilot—it’s all wonderful! It even seems cheap compared to my P85D. No need to wait any longer—go ahead and upgrade now.
I am also very disappointed with this news. I have had my S almost 4 years now, absolutely love everything about it, but am ready for a new one. I have been waiting to pull the trigger for almost a year, waiting for an exterior/interior refresh. I won't however, buy the exact same car. I have a pearl white one now, and my next will also be pearl white. What would be the point in getting a new one?
Now I am hooked on Tesla, so I'm not going anywhere. But it's unfortunate because Tesla is losing another sale, and I'm sure that there are many more like myself. I love the continuous upgrades but the car has been out for 8 model years already. The upgrades keep the car technologically fresh and ahead of the competition - I get that. Now it needs to be at least tweaked on the inside and out. Not a total redo necessarily, but something to keep the buzz going strong and to keep the competition on their heels - not just technologically but in looks too. The Porsche Taycan looks pretty good. Why not knock it on its butt with a new, refreshed S?
Until then, I'll just keep what I have and see what develops. As soon as a new one does come out, I'll be first in line with my checkbook.
debwonglee, You should apply for the CEO job at BMW. They could use you there.
@dtodd16, have you considered getting off of the upgrade treadmill for aesthetic reasons? I read somewhere that car manufacturers make these superficial occasional changes to separate buyers from their money every few years.
@dtodd16, If you have a 2015 Model S, a 2019 Raven version is far from the 'exact same car'. I had an early 2016 and I was pretty blown away by how much this version is improved over that P90)D - very happy I upgraded.
If you really like your current Model S as much as you say, you will love the new one. HW3, Tesla AP, better seats, center console, amazing suspension, much better range/energy efficiency, Sentry mode, quieter ride, and the new air suspension is my favorite suspension I've ever driven. Just my 2 cents.
@2015P90DI - MCU was changed in the S/X around March 2019 and is the same CPU (Intel) as the Model 3. I have the old MCU1, and it works fine, but agreed the Model 3 and New S/X are faster. While I don't use games, there are some cool games now while parked that only work on MCU2.
Tranz, car manufacturers do indeed constantly change their cars to entice buyers. Usually a simple facelift every 2 to 3 years, and a more significant upgrade every 6 to 8 years. It is also the only way for them to try and keep up with technology. It is very expensive for buyers to trade in every 2 or 3 years, and it's expensive for the manufacturers to retool. But they do it because it works, whether people can afford to or not. I am fortunate because I can afford to do it. The Model S is an expensive car, and I have to believe that a lot of its buyers have money and therefore can afford to do it also. When I grew up it was said that a lot more Cadillac owners upgrade every two years than Chevy owners. I'm sure the same holds true today.
Dtodd16, to you perhaps the car needs updating, but to those not familiar with Teslas, the car is still ahead of its time. My car is a bit over 5 years old now and I still have people thinking the car is new.
@Bighorn, how much battery degradation have you had on your 2013?
I had my battery replaced at 197k miles. It had 11.5% degradation at that point. New battery returned 27 of those 31 miles.