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CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT

CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT

Looks like a class action lawsuit may be in Tesla’s future for limiting range, charging speed and capacity for many Tesla Model S owners.
David Rasmussen appears to have filed a lawsuit in California and may seek class action status. Tesla should be as transparent as possible about their actions, respond in a timely fashion and seek to remedy to problem as swiftly as possible. The alternative could be damage to its reputation that may be irreparable.

SamO | 08. august 2019

A lawsuit means the end of Tesla? GTFOOH.

No details, just FUD?

Flagged.

johncrab | 08. august 2019

I read that on NASDAQ this afternoon. The suit alleges manipulation of cars' range, charging speed and other factors in order to avoid due diligence under the terms of the battery warranty to repair or replace batteries they have deemed defective. I suspect this will proceed to the next step. Since there is plenty of evidence that this happened to quite a few literally in the time it takes to update firmware, Tesla's case for saying this is normal degradation over time is pretty much laughable. This will be interesting.

rxlawdude | 08. august 2019

Hey @crab, you sound almost gleeful. Starting to wonder who your real master is.

Mathew98 | 08. august 2019

Service techs have be telling me for years that 3-5% degradation per year is well within normal range. Just because they held up remarkably well for most didn't mean they couldn't err on the side of caution to prevent spontaneous combustion.

Your imaginary battery range or your life. You choose...

rxlawdude | 08. august 2019

@Mathew, all due respect, but to many, battery range is NOT imaginary, and could be critical to S60 and S70 owners.

Bighorn | 08. august 2019

The plaintiff’s argument seems pretty specious. Reuter’s article was pretty hyperbolic saying a maximal loss of 8% was comparable to taking an ICE with a 20 gallon gas tank to service and getting a 10 gallon tank in return. Maths. Worst comes to worst, reverse the FW.

Bighorn | 08. august 2019

Worse

NKYTA | 08. august 2019

“Hey @crab, you sound almost gleeful. Starting to wonder who your real master is.”

He either has a master that is paying him, or he’s an idiot. Well both could be true.

Bighorn | 08. august 2019

Seems profoundly unhappy and angry at the world.

jaredm25 | 08. august 2019

I certainly hope Tesla continues to make any updates necessary to further improve the safety and longevity of their battery packs. More information and transparency around these updates is a reasonable request but certainly no grounds for a legitimate lawsuit. Just because other companies don't have the willingness or ability to improve products over time doesn't mean Tesla should be punished for doing so.

Shesmyne2 | 08. august 2019

Why is everyone so quick to sue? Shit happens.
Move on.

Still Grinning ;-)

teslafan.net | 08. august 2019

My Acura ICE car with 15 gallons can drive 300 miles when bought new. After 5 years I can only get 285 miles. Can I sue Acura for the lost range over the year?

rxlawdude | 08. august 2019

So how is reducing battery capacity by 8% any different than 8% due to natural, mileage based degradation.?
So when one has 8% natural degradation and Tesla reduces that capacity by another 8% with the software update, that seems a wee bit unsavory.
Objectively.
Can Tesla make this right? Full disclosure of the impact of software changes prior to accepting updates is a good start.

NKYTA | 08. august 2019

This seems to be for newer cars. PBE just posted about a drop and a regain with an early 2013.

My 2012 has seen non-such.

Regardless this is not fleet-wise.

Silver2K | 08. august 2019

Why is the title in caps?

dougk71 | 08. august 2019

The issue here is range. Tesla estimates range since it has many variables like weather , driving habits, terrain, tires and on and on. Now if the owner with the complaint can document that under the exact same parameters that year over year the range dropped precipitously then there maybe grounds for a case to be a winner. This is not like diesel gate where ICE manufacturers cheated on the chemical content of emissions poisoning the air we breathe.

NKYTA | 08. august 2019

@dougk, I think you just made my point again.

This isn’t fleet wide.

ohgiebecky | 09. august 2019

I guess not everyone took it the same way but I was surprised when my car degraded by 33 miles in three days . I charged at home to 100 % 240 miles , went on a trip , came back and charged again from 62 miles to 100% but only got up to 207 miles . My car is only three years old with 33000 miles on it . I usually charge to 200 miles only or less unless going on a longer trip which may happen once a month . I switched back and forth from % reading to miles reading but the car's 100 % now is only 207 miles . I can understand if the degradation happened slowly during the three year span that I owned the car but not in three days . When I bought the car I was offered for extra $5000.00 I can have an extra 20 miles that I opted out . The service center said that because of the software update some cars will experience a minimal degradation . How much is minimal well nobody in the service center can say . According to them as of now there is no fix because they consider the degradation as normal . To those that did not experience the degradation , great for you . To those that have the same degradation and not a problem for you well good for you . To those with the same frustration I do understand the feeling . I think we can all agree that we should respect our differences in opinion .

lilbean | 09. august 2019

A lawsuit in CA? No way!

Qwiksilver | 09. august 2019

@rxlawdude

“Can Tesla make this right? Full disclosure of the impact of software changes prior to accepting updates is a good start.”

This suggestion might be a good start. The optics of how Tesla handled the change in charging speed and capacity for many owners, without notice, are not good. Could have been handled better.

Silver2K | 09. august 2019

ohgiebecky

The degradation you mentioned in your comments is extremely abnormal. Do you have before and after photos?

I haven't lost a mile and my charge rate remains the same and I'm on the latest firmware.

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

A minority of owners are experiencing severe overnight range loss. I have a Model S100D December 2018 28.2.4
I often use the car during the day so I'm extrapolating the overnight loss of range to 24 hours. Overnight my Tesla loses 1 mile per hour extrapolated that is 24 miles every day if it remains parked and unplugged..
For an upcoming trip I'm risking 8 days of parking at an airport. If I park with a fully charged battery (330 mile range) I expect to make it since the Super Charger is within 20 miles of the Airport.
The software that introduced Sentry mode has been an unpleasant disaster for me. It has gotten worse now the car responds by flashing the headlights if I without the fob or cell phone approach it.
I can just imagine it chirping and winking the headlights and wasting the battery while parked.
Sadly there is no way to unwind the software Tesla pushes to my car.
I had a service visit and they had no solution to offer.
Fortunately I also have ICE car that can be used for long term parking at Airports.
Maybe that's why I have yet to see a Tesla in long term parking.

leehunt292 | 09. august 2019

I have photo's of my 2014 MS 60 showing 229 rated miles @99% in December, and 205 rated miles @99% in June !

Boonedocks | 09. august 2019
Silver2K | 09. august 2019

It seems the firmware may have discovered possible issues and effected charging and range on some cars. That's the only explanation when looking at the situation as a whole.

If Tesla did this purposely to protect themselves from warranty claims in the future then all cars would have been effected.

You would think I and my buddy's cars having over 200k miles would be effected , but we're not. I also have a friend in Auburn NY with a 2013 s85 with over 120k miles and has not been effected.

Mathew98 | 09. august 2019

@leehunt292 - S60 never had a full range of more than 208 miles since it's introduction. Either you were reading ideal range or you were smoking something real powerful...

leehunt292 | 09. august 2019

UK rated range is Ideal range in USA, my typical range (Rated in USA) is now only 161 miles.

eddyline | 09. august 2019

This seems to be a version of range anxiety. If SCs were on every street corner, charged us in five minutes, and our cars got 450 miles of range, there wouldn't be any complaints. My mileage on my last ICE car varied by more than ten percent--it depended on how aggro I drove, weather, fuel quality, whether I had a recent service, and other factors. I never thought of suing....

Silver2K | 09. august 2019

Effect/affect

Apostle | 09. august 2019

I don't have navigation so I cross-correlate 4 sources when I'm on a trip. I use an app showing Superchargers and the miles/distance, a mapping app showing the miles/distance, the touchscreen, and the range display. I drove from South Florida to Washington state and back to South Florida. The first 80% of the charge is fast, but the last 20% is slow. When I needed close to a 100% charge it would take me 1.5-hours to fully charge. I'd charge 2- or 3-times each day. I have a screenshot of a not-full charge with 271-miles of range taken on April 28, 2019.

I am 100% certain that I was getting more than 271-miles of range on the trip until I went to a service center in Seattle, Washington. This range was confirmed multiple times a day for weeks while driving across the United States.

After leaving the service center on May 8, 2019, I charged and could only get 240-miles of range. By the time I got to Florida, I could only get 220 miles of range. During the 6-years of owning my vehicle, I lost 15-miles of range or 5% range. After visiting the SC May 6, 2019, to May 8, 2019, and getting a firmware update I instantly lost 50-miles of range or more than 16% of range.

When I got to Montana, the charge port wouldn't work in the cold weather. I replaced it ($735.21). Then the 12-volt battery gave an error message. When the cold weather dipped, the 12-volt battery alert popped up. I'd had the 12-volt battery replaced before leaving Florida. I replaced the 12-volt (over $300) again. Then both front doors wouldn't open. I replaced the LF and RF door regulators in March 2019 (more than $700). I replaced the LF and RF door handles in April 2019 ($300).

I took a screenshot and a picture of my range dash before leaving Montana and driving to Washington state, checked my tire pressure and screenshot my range on my app. I cross-correlated 4 sources of miles/distance 2- or 3-times a day. On May 3, 2019, 3 windows had trouble going up. A full power cycle hard reset made all the windows go up. At the same moment that the 3 windows had the problem, the front passenger door opened. In the past, a setting in my touchscreen opened the doors. I couldn't find the setting, so I called Roadside. Roadside said to email support. Support didn't respond for a week which was 1-day after I paid $1,995.21.

On May 6, 2019, chat told me to go to the SC. I couldn't book an appointment on the app because I'd never been to the SC in Seattle, Washington.

I asked the SC to help me find the setting on the touchscreen to stop the door from opening and to install a firmware update. The SC told me to leave the vehicle overnight and tech would do it in the morning.

The next morning, a text said I needed 3 window regulators and a new door regulator (one that was replaced in April 2019 - 1-month earlier). The quote: $1,010. The SC kept the vehicle 2-nights. When I picked it up they charged me $1,995.21. They didn't give me a receipt and instead emailed me. The invoice was blurry and unreadable. 1-day later email support replied and told me to change the setting on my touchscreen to stop the door from opening.

2 of the windows didn't have another problem until 3 windows malfunctioned on May 6, 2019, at the same time. The 3 windows went up after a full power cycle hard reset. The FR door and window continued to have problems going up and the FR door kept opening when I put the vehicle in park, used the key fob to unlock the vehicle, or touched the lock or unlock icon on the touchscreen between May 9, 2019, and the July 30, 2019 service appointment.

When I checked my tire pressure, I found out that the SC overfilled my tires to 45 psi when 21-inch are supposed to be 38 psi in the front and 42 in the rear. The brakes looked pitted and rusted. When I got to Florida and hand washed my vehicle and saw missing tiny flakes of paint. I washed it 4 times to confirm what I was seeing. There was a chunk missing from the interior door leather in my RL door and 2 big paint scratches under the missing chunk of leather. I didn't get a not-blurry copy of the $1,995.21 invoice until 2-days after I paid. The SC replaced the RR window regulator. That was the only window that didn't malfunction. The SC replaced the RR door regulator. That door never malfunctioned. The SC replaced the RF regulator that had just been replaced in April (1-month earlier). The Tesla parts warranty covers parts for 1-year. The SC shouldn't have charged to replace the part. The SC replaced the LF and RF door handles that had been replaced in April. The SC replaced the LF door regulator. That door regulator never malfunctioned. And the RF door and window problems continued until the July 30, 2019 service appointment.

On July 28, 2019, I installed a firmware update and an alert popped up that said, "steering assist reduced." I didn't add the request to the app because I'd added new requests to the existing appointment and that kept causing the appointment to be moved 10-days or a week or 2-weeks while my door was still opening and windows not closing without a full power cycle reset.

The window and door problems started again and weren't fixed until July 30, 2019.

On August 8, 2019, I took the vehicle in for service because of the "steering assist reduced" alert. The SC asked me to sign an estimate that charged me $87.50 to diagnose the steering assist alert, $87.50 for "range education about why my range fell from 271 to 220, and $87.50 to look at the chipped paint on my doors caused by the new door handles. The email estimate, not an estimate written on Tesla letterhead with a guaranteed cost. The cost; $3,429.95 with a note that says it could be more because "This is a quote on list price, actual prices may vary at the time of service." The SC is saying the steering rack is broken.

Has anyone else had the "steering assist reduced" alert, replaced a steering rack, or experienced any of these issues?

PBEndo | 09. august 2019

My 2013 only had a 5 rated mile drop at 90% SOC, but it appeared immediately after the last update. Approximately 1 week later, the car was driven on a trip where the SOC fell below 30 rated miles twice before recharging. After that the "lost" 5 miles returned.

Sam_S | 09. august 2019

3-5% range loss a year?

My 2014 MS has averaged 1.5% yearly loss over 5 years for a total loss of 7.5%.

TeslaTap.com | 09. august 2019

@dougk71 - The vampire loss you talk about is sort of off topic here. Having 24 mile vampire loss per day is normal for Sentry mode. If you don't like the sentry mode loss, turn the feature off. Even if you forget, it stops at 20% SOC (74 miles of range, on a 100D). Clearly it's not ideal to use Sentry mode if you're leaving your car for more than a week.

rxlawdude | 09. august 2019

"EACH YEAR, from 2014 to 2016, an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States."

In the lawsuit, it claims "over a dozen reports" of Tesla fires OVER SIX YEARS.

I think those numbers more than speak for themselves that the likelihood of fire in a Tesla is far, far lower than that of an ICE vehicle.

rxlawdude | 09. august 2019
rxlawdude | 09. august 2019

I'm also amazed at the number of typographical errors in the complaint.

rxlawdude | 09. august 2019

And our very own @TeslaTap is quoted in the complaint on page 20.

You're a rock star! ;-)

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

TeslaTap.com
I always have sentry mode turned off I also have cabin overheat turned off. Sentry does little but use up the battery if you live in a small town with little crime. Maybe in LA it might be useful for short term parking.
The car since the latest software updates especially after Sentry mode advancements now loses 24 miles per day.
A high penalty for something ( Sentry Mode) that I have little use for. You can't even use Sentry mode at airport parking where it could be useful due to the severe battery drain it causes.
I'd love to be able to roll updates back and get back to the reasonable 3 miles per day loss if parked unplugged.
The sensors never ever seem to turn off the car makes chirping noises and winks the headlights periodically at night in the garage.
Owners are even setting up cameras hoping to catch the Grinch that steals overnight range.

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

There has to be some way to stop the car from flashing the head lights periodically when parked in an empty garage. I suspect since the Sentry mode was added it is seeing stationary objects even when Sentry mode is off as a security threat. The car never sleeps it is on Sentry duty whether it is needed or not.
I'm frustrated I don't want Sentry mode to be active in my own garage ever, especially when it has been turned off.
I'd love to have a physical shutdown switch that would guarantee the absolute minimum power draw when parked.

rxlawdude | 09. august 2019

@doug, so why don't you turn off Sentry while in your garage at home? You have that capability by checking or unchecking a box in the Safety and Security tab.

Apostle | 09. august 2019

Tesla is going to make $6,500 on faults from my 85 kWh vehicle in less than 1-year. Tesla is quoting an estimated, subject to change, $3,429.95 for a fault that caused my power steering rack to fail. I've spent $3,000 fixing faults in less than a year – before the new $3,429.95 quote for the fault causing the power steering rack to fail. The SC said a fault caused my windows to malfunction and my doors to open. A fault caused my door handles to stick closed. A fault caused my door handles to partially present. A fault caused my door locks to stop working. A fault caused the window and door regulator problems. A fault caused my charge port to stop working. A fault caused the 85 kWh to catch on fire in Shanghai, China. And I' lost 50-miles of range after going to a Tesla service center.

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

Sadly I decided not to take the Tesla to the airport due to the new software and bugs with Sentry mode.
.Our ICE car is now more reliable when parked.
I'm trying to troubleshoot this Tesla flaw..
I have tried putting both FOB's into a tin can (Faraday cage). With sentry turned of if I walk around the car in the garage without touching it it will emit noises maybe battery coolant being moved but sometimes on a single walk around the car the headlights will blink it is almost guaranteed if I walk around twice.
Less frequently I catch the headlights blinking As I peek in on the car from 15 feet away.
I strongly suspect this is a bug or a virus in the Sentry mode software even when turned off. It is coincident with the placing of the Sentry mode on/off button on the top line of the screen. If you have Sentry mode set to off you still get this icon and has some value that you can turn Sentry mode back on when parked at say a restaurant.
I rarely use it anyway since there are only false positive events recorded when people parked next to you come and go.
Maybe the software has been hacked and a battery killer virus has been introduced.
Whatever the reason it is just too risky to leave the car for several days unattended at the airport.

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

rxlawdude
Sentry mode is and always has been turned off as you suggested. This for many owners is a Tesla software flaw not a owner's error. Others are also reporting this errant behavior and unnecessary battery draw down since Sentry mode was enhanced to place a button on the top line of the screen.

chengchy | 09. august 2019

I have to say Tesla is doing pretty poorly recently. Pricing changes, policy changes, software changes blah blah. Lots of current owners are not happy. A couple days ago when some Tesla employee called me asking if I would like to trade in my 90D for in stock 100D, I declined it immediately.given Model S still lacks some important features Model 3 has and some feature I want, I would not consider buying another S is a smart idea right now.

Now that Tesla brought back free supercharging for S/X, I still offer a "Not at the moment buying an S/X" for all the potential owners approaching me for advice. Shorter range, inferior BMS design, older types of battery, more prone to fire, slower charging speed... all these things add up.

Bighorn | 09. august 2019

Did I stumble into the InfoWars thread? Lots of crazy talk.

rxlawdude | 09. august 2019

InfoWars... where ammunition is kilobits.

dougk71 | 09. august 2019

OK it is very very repeatable. S100D December 2018 2019.28.2
Facts
Sentry mode is selected off
Car is in a home garage
Car is locked and both fob's are in a tin can some 100 ft away
If I enter the garage one time in 3 it will flash the lights as I open the side door to the garage
If I walk around the car without touching it then it will flash the lights sometimes on one circuit but definitely by two walk arounds.
Car exhibits 1 mile of range per hour if left by itself in the garage.
The car appears to never sleep and will occasionally flash the head light when no one is there.
Observed from outside the garage.
Behavior coincident with recent upgrades to Sentry Mode.
I suspect many Teslas have this issue
I'll bring this up again with Tesla when I get back from my trip.
I'm leaving the Tesla behind in the garage 90% charged and we'll see if it dies due to this issue.
I don't want to risk the Tesla in the airport parking garage winking its lights day in and day out

ohgiebecky | 09. august 2019

Silver2K
I'm not the only one that experienced the same degradation overnight of over 13% of range . yes that is unusual that is why I took it in to a Tesla service station for a check and from what I was told it mostly affected the 70 , 75 , and 85 models . What surprised me is that even the service station was caught unaware by the effects of the changes and had difficulty explaining it . They had my car for two weeks and ended with no resolution except to educate me of what they were told to be normal and no fix required for the moment . There maybe an adjustment in the future but that they are not told officially . Some car owner may not realize they have range degradation too because they are set to read % charge instead of miles . They will get whatever % charge they want but it may not be the same equal of % range of capacity designed as the model they bought it . I'm sharing my experience in this forum in hope to clarify and may help others in some way . Again I'm not alone with exact same experience . By the way the service center have all the time tags and date of when I charge last with 240 miles and days later the time and dfate when the car shows 100% 207 miles . They have tried to drain the battery down and slow charge to reset but unsuccessful . Supposedly they checked all the battery modules and cells to be okay .

DonS | 09. august 2019

I would really like Tesla to be forthcoming as to what is going on. I have a 2013 with the 85 kWh battery that I regularly use to make a particular round trip. It has always made the trip with single digit % remaining when I get home, so I would be very annoyed to suddenly find this trip is 10% short.

funcc | 09. august 2019

@Mathew98 - "S60 never had a full range of more than 208 miles since it's introduction. Either you were reading ideal range or you were smoking something real powerful..."

Cute, but wrong. My S60 also got 229 miles when fully charged (in the beginning). Not smoking anything and not reading ideal range either. Why is it so hard to accept that some people get a different experience with their Teslas than others?

Sounds like some legitimate complaints here.

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