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Tesla YANKED FSDC option after the sale - Class Action lawsuit?

Tesla YANKED FSDC option after the sale - Class Action lawsuit?

I have purchased used 2017 Tesla MS on 12/20/19, from 3rd party dealership (not Tesla), who purchased it from Tesla through the auction house on 11/15/19. The car had FSDC Autopilot.

Upon the software upgrade back in December the FSDC was yanked.

In January when I was in Tesla service center, I was told the feature was removed (despite the fact EAP and FSDC were listed on the Monroney sticker)- “ Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.”

When I asked when the audit was done, they said on 11/18/19 (have recorded that statement in the service invoice)
Can TESLA reach in current customers and de-content the car, AFTER the car changed hands - they sold the car on 11/15/19 and "conduct the audit" on 11/18/19? 

What would be next? Disable/remove options like UHFS system, Subzero package, folding mirrors,? or maybe the geofencing me since I did not pay for rights to travel outside of my city?

I know at least a couple more new owners who are in the same boat.

Looks like a Class Action lawsuit?  Any ambitious lawyers here to take on Tesla?

stingray.don | 31. januar 2020

So you want to file suit for not getting something you never had and was never paid for?

nukequazar | 01. februar 2020

@stingray.don, do you just reads the parts of posts you want to see so you can criticize anyone who dares to question Tesla? The OP said it was in the sticker and on the car when he bought it, i.e. he paid for it. Tesla remover it.

@Alec-MS, get used to it. If a company can be an a$$hole, Tesla is one.

Xerogas | 01. februar 2020

No need for a class action. If it’s on the Monroney, you should be entitled to it. Sounds like small claims to me.

stingray.don | 01. februar 2020

nukequazar,

Did you read the post? He bought the car used from a dealer, NOT Tesla. Monroney sticker is not relevant with a used car. The features were removed BEFORE he made the purchase. The features were removed because the original owner did not pay for them. If the car was sold to him as including the features, then his dispute should be with the dealer and not Tesla.

nukequazar | 01. februar 2020

@Alec-MD, There’s a mistake in your post. Says the car had FSD on 11/15/19 but it was “yanked” back in September. Did the car have FSD when you purchased it or not?

TeslaTap.com | 01. februar 2020

My take is Tesla was the owner of the used car at one point. As such they could change any options they want before the resale of the car. This does devalue the car and it would be sold at auction at a lower price.

This seems no different than you buying a new car, removing the high-end alpine stereo, inserting a $20 cheap China stereo and selling the car. Yes, the alpine stereo was on the Monroney sticker but is irrelevant to the sale.

If the dealer stated FSD was included with the car, then your beef is with the dealer, who fraudulently sold you the car without stated features. How the dealer got it is really not material, nor is how Tesla prepared and sold the car.

Even if the dealer was lied to as to what was included in the car, the dealer is still responsible for the sale. The dealer might have an issue with the auction house, who might have an issue with Tesla - but none of that is your problem.

Alec-MS | 01. februar 2020

@nukequazar. Sorry, it was a typo, I have purchased the car in December, not September!
I would have no a problem IF they removed it BEFORE selling the car, but not after TESLA transferred the ownership.

stingray.don | 01. februar 2020

Alec-MS,

That does put a different light on the situation. However, you need to dispute the matter with the dealer that sold you the car, assuming that they indicated that the car came with FSD. As far as Tesla is concerned, it was a feature that was never paid for.

stingray.don | 01. februar 2020

And just to confirm, you are stating that you had FSD when you purchased the car, correct?

Alec-MS | 01. februar 2020

@stingray.don Yes, it sure had FSDC after Tesla lost legal rights to change the car, unless we all never own the car, but just license it from Tesla! Don't you think it is a very expensive license?

stingray.don | 01. februar 2020

Yes, it sure had FSDC after Tesla lost legal rights to change the car
_____________________

Rather cryptic response, but I take that to mean after it was transferred to the dealer but before you bought the car. The Monroney sticker is not a contract. It just represents how the car was configured when it left the factory, and not necessarily how it was sold especially in a used car situation. If the dealer sold you the car as having FSD, then you have a legitimate claim against the dealer. Your recourse is with the dealer but not Tesla.

Alec-MS | 01. februar 2020

@stingray.don. I understand that my recourse would sell be dealer. BUT DOES THIS make any difference - last Tesla service tech stated - "You would loose it anyway once the ownership transfer is complete"

Xerogas | 01. februar 2020

@Alec-MS: "@stingray.don. I understand that my recourse would sell be dealer. BUT DOES THIS make any difference - last Tesla service tech stated - "You would loose it anyway once the ownership transfer is complete""
------
If nobody paid for it, why would you get to keep it?

stingray.don | 02. februar 2020

"You would loose it anyway once the ownership transfer is complete"
______________

I’m not sure what the tech is referring to. If the feature was bought and paid for, then it stays with the car even when ownership is transferred.

Alec-MS | 02. februar 2020

@stingray.don Apparently not! The Car's Monroney sticker clearly says EAP - $5K, FSD - $3K, but now I have no EAP nor FSD, just basic AP.

stingray.don | 02. februar 2020

The Monroney sticker only discloses how the car was configured when it left the factory. It is not a sales contract. The original buyer didn’t want the features so the feature costs were removed. Tesla then removes the features via software update. This is quite common with inventory cars. My Tesla is not configured the same as the Monroney sticker.

stingray.don | 02. februar 2020

Again, FSD was never purchased regardless of how the car left the factory. The features were removed before you bought the car, as Tesla had the right to do. If the dealer included FSD in your sales contract, then you have a legitimate claim against the dealer, not Tesla.

Alec-MS | 02. februar 2020

@stingray.don I didn't pay separately for UHFS, Subzero package, Premium lighting, etc. with all controlled via software therefore can be easily removed. By your and Tesla definition I must pay for those additionally, event though the car left the factory with them, correct?
Once again - removing anything 3 days later after the car was sold it is just plain wrong if not fraudulent.

stingray.don | 02. februar 2020

If those features were included in the original sales contract, then they would transfer to any subsequent owner. The Monroney sticker is not a sales contract. Let's say I find a new car on the lot that has optional premium floor mats for $200. I tell the sales associate that I will buy the car, but I don't want the floor mats and will supply my own. The sales associate writes up a sales contract that does not include the floor mats and credits me $200. Four years later I trade the car in for a new model. You come to the dealer and buy the car as a used vehicle. Do you think you can then file suit against the manufacturer because premium floor mats were listed on the Monroney sticker, but not included with the car? Of course not.

Now, what is an interesting wrinkle with your car is the fact that the dealer obtained the car from Tesla with functional FSD. If the sales contract with the dealer just says "as is" and does not mention FSD one way or the other, then I think the dealer might have a claim against Tesla as it would be reasonable to assume that FSD was included with the car. In that case, the dealer might have a legitimate claim against Tesla that would be worth pursuing, but that would be between the dealer and Tesla.

However, when you purchased the car from the dealer in December, it did not have FSD, so you purchased the car without FSD. If the dealer did not include FSD in your sales contract, then you don't have any legal recourse. You can't claim entitlement to features just because they were on the vehicle at some point in the past. I would suggest that you work with the dealer that sold you the car and see if they will assist you. It might be a long shot, but depending on the terms and conditions under which the dealer purchased the car, they might have a claim with Tesla, and they would work with Tesla to obtain those features that were removed after the dealer acquired the car. My only point is that you do not have a case against Tesla just because features that were included in the Monroney sticker are longer on the car. The dealer might work with you to resolve the issue, which is your best bet. However, if your sales contract does not list FSD, then the dealer would have to assist you out of goodwill rather than legal obligation. Talk to your dealer and let us know how it works out. It would be great if they could wrangle FSD for you, but I would not be optimistic.

Yodrak. | 02. februar 2020

"Looks like a Class Action lawsuit?"

Class Action lawsuit, he universal solution to any and all grievances, which has given rise to required arbitration in more and more agreements.

andy.connor.e | 02. februar 2020

got a problem? write on telsa forums you're going to court

Xerogas | 02. februar 2020

A class action lawsuit requires a class. It’s right there in the name. A class of one is not a class, it’s just, well, one person. The term you’re looking for is “small claims”.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

@Alec-MS, you're still not being super clear about the timeline and the facts.

The only thing that matters for you in this case is: At the moment you made an agreement to buy the car, signed the contract, and paid for the car, were you told that the car had FSD on it? Not by the original sticker but by what the dealer told you. Did the dealer represent that the original sticker was still valid for the feature list? If you made the agreement based on the car including FSD and now it only has AP then the dealer owes you $7,000 (that's the price to go from AP to FSD today).

You bought a car from a dealer, so your contract and any disputes are with the dealer not Tesla. If Tesla misrepresented the car to the dealer, then the dealer should address that with Tesla.

That being said... This is money-grubbing and shitty of Tesla. They do this because they know that FSD on a used car has less value than what they charge for the upgrade, so... They sell FSD once to owner #1, remove it when it passes through Tesla as a lease-return or trade-in, they reduce the price of the car less than the FSD upgrade price, they resell the car, then owner #2 pays for the FSD upgrade (second time on that car), they make a few extra bucks, and continue pissing off more good customers.

TeslaTap.com | 03. februar 2020

The other way to look at it is Tesla buys the used car, removes FSD so the price of the car is significantly cheaper and affordable, and sells quicker at auction. They expect the dealer who buys that lower cost car to pass on those savings so the car is more affordable to those who can't afford a new Tesla.

The dealer gets this significantly lower priced car and then makes a bundle by selling the car with features they didn't purchase. A rather good scam for the dealer.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

I know, @TT, you can always find your way to defend Tesla. But then accuse the dealer of a scam for selling the car after Tesla removes a feature likely without telling anyone?!? This is beyond the pale, even for your typical nonsense. Tesla admitted that they removed the feature after they sold it at auction after an "audit." How convenient.

TeslaTap.com | 03. februar 2020

I know @nuke you can always find your way to blame Tesla for other's errors.

Would you buy any car at auction without knowing the options, especially a $7K option? I'm sure Tesla was clear what the car came with, but agreed I could be wrong as you may be wrong too. Still, the dealer is the one who sold the car and is responsible for what was sold. I do trust Tesla a lot more than a used car dealer, but that's not relevant.

stingray.don | 03. februar 2020

There are used cars for sale on Tesla’s website with FSD. I don’t think there is any compelling evidence that Tesla removes FSD on trade in vehicles. We have also had other examples posted on this board of original owners that have declined FSD on inventory cars that had the feature, and had it removed at a later date as the result of an audit. It seems far more likely the OP’s car had FSD as an inventory car and the original owner declined it upon purchase. Regardless, the OP bought a used car that did not have FSD at the time of purchase.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

Are you guys reading at all? There was clearly an error by Tesla but @TT and others here will never allow for such things. Tesla admitted that they found their mistake in an audit. The OP says the car had FSD when purchased by the dealer. Per the OP Tesla says they removed it after it was sold to the dealer. The only thing in question is whether or not Tesla informed the dealer, and what the dealer told the new buyer.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

How about the dealer is a moron and didnt update the listing of the car.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

@andy.connor.e, moron? If the dealer hadn’t been well informed by Tesla, there’s no way they would know to update it. This is the question. Did Tesla inform the dealer or just flip the switch to be carried out with the next OTA update? A car dealer cannot be expected to inspect every car every morning to see if manufacturers have pull features overnight.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

You're making the case that Tesla is more likely to be at fault than scumbag dealerships that regularly fee you for breathing their air.

Its not any more likely that Tesla didnt tell the dealer, than the dealer did not update the listing.

TabascoGuy | 03. februar 2020

Most likely scenarios.
1) OP’s car had FSD as an inventory car and the original owner declined it upon purchase.
2) The dealer is a moron and didn't update the listing of the car.
3) OP bought a car without a clear understanding of what he was actually buying (moron #2).
4) Nuke will badmouth Tesla, owners, and, forum members no matter what (moron #3).

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

I think 2, 3, 4 are simultaneously likely.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

I’ve bought two used cars and three new cars from dealers. The worst thing that happened to me from a dealer was years ago a salesman promised me a full tank of gas but the car wasn’t full and it was a hassle to get them to fill it. Other than that my experience with dealers has been great. Their business relies on making customers happy. Tesla doesn’t seem to have that philosophy at this time.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

Your philosophy is everytime you return to the forums to comment all you do is talk about how something is Teslas fault.
And your experience is not universal.
Even i was told they were going to fix up a couple things on my car when i went to buy it and they surely did nothing and refused to do anything when i brought it back to them.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

Most likely series of events is actually this:

1. The car had FSD from the factory
2. Whether the first owner paid for it or not is irrelevant because the car still had FSD when sold to a third-party dealer
3. Tesla then decided, for whatever reason, that after selling the car to the dealer that they would remove FSD
4. Knowing Tesla CS, they probably did not inform anyone of this decision, although either is possible
5. This second buyer thought the car had FSD
6. At some point during an OTA update, FSD sent away

Again, the only question is if/when Tesla divulged their mistake to the dealer, and then if so, whether the dealer passed that info on to this buyer. Whoever did not pass along this $7,000 piece of information is at fault.

TabascoGuy | 03. februar 2020

"Their business relies on making customers happy."

It would be nice if that were really the case with new and used car dealers. That would make absolute sense and the words sound good. The unfortunate truth is that extracting the maximum amount of cash out of your wallet is their main goal. They don't care if you ever come back.

I'm glad Tesla does not have that philosophy.

TabascoGuy | 03. februar 2020

Nuke, do we know if the third party dealer paid for FSD?

TabascoGuy | 03. februar 2020

I think that's the key, if the third party dealer did not pay for FSD, then neither did the OP, even though it was still on the car.

That's why it was removed after the audit.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

Hes convinced that Tesla is at fault no matter what. He does not ever consider the alternative.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

@andy.connor.e, again, you're not reading, just making assumptions. I said:

"The only thing that matters for you in this case is: At the moment you made an agreement to buy the car, signed the contract, and paid for the car, were you told that the car had FSD on it? Not by the original sticker but by what the dealer told you."

and

"the only question is if/when Tesla divulged their mistake to the dealer, and then if so, whether the dealer passed that info on to this buyer. Whoever did not pass along this $7,000 piece of information is at fault."

This is not "Tesla is at fault no matter what." Both alternatives are considered, clearly. What I don't do is what @TeslaTap does, thread every needle with the case that puts anyone at fault other than Tesla.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

Both are considered but we need to know When Tesla did the wrong thing.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

This is an amazing exchange where I clearly lay out how it is unclear whose fault this is, and could be either Tesla or the dealer. But since I am not praying at the altar of Tesla/TSLA/Musk, I am accused of being a Tesla-hater. Just amazing.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

@Alec-MS, you are not being clear.
Did the dealer tell you the car had FSD included when you bought it or not?
Did they show you the sticker and tell you that's what the car had on it?
Did that OTA update removing FSD occur before or after you took ownership?
Did the dealer tell you FSD had been "yanked" but you were hoping to get it reinstated?

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

You said it not me. You're just the one who comes on here for a couple days to a week at a time when theres something to blame Tesla on, and then you disappear for long enough for me to even forget that you're a user. The only time you're ever on here commenting is when Tesla is being blamed for something. And this isnt even your thread.

rob | 03. februar 2020

@ nukequazar
Your beef is clearly with the dealer you bought it from. It's up to the selling dealer to prove the Tesla is at fault. They can go after Tesla if they want.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

Wow. I have a stalker. If you read more carefully, and look at the big picture, the case is that the irrational Tesla fandom and prophetization of Musk drives me insane. I look at both sides rather than just defending Tesla which then drives the fanboys insane. And so it goes. Look at recent a comment I made on one of the Taycan threads. I said it was like the debates with nobody changing anybody else's minds. I have also answered newbies' questions.

andy.connor.e | 03. februar 2020

I guess if you consider reading threads and comments and having the cerebral capacity to remember things you read, as stalking, then i guess you're right.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

@rob, my beef? I have no beef in this game. I'm just an observer like everyone else here except the OP. If you read carefully, it is not clear at all who is at fault because the OP has not offered enough info about the timeline and what he was actually told by the dealer.

nukequazar | 03. februar 2020

Correction: "I said it was like the **impeachment** with nobody changing anybody else's minds."

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