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What does China have to gain from USA going down?

What does China have to gain from USA going down?

You probably all have your personal input, it is free for all.

I see that China 'owns' the USA by way of debt. If China called in the debt, what would happen? If USA is bankrupted, and it could, over this Covid 19.
(BTW, what were COVID 1-18 about? And 20 onward?)

By building a new island in the South China Sea, they have advanced their front.

If they destroy the economy of USA, what is in it for them?

I have posited previously, the coincidence of: China has just one viral research laboratory.And it is in Wutan.
This smells like a military experiment gone wrong,(probably because they sold the rats and monkeys in the local food markets for human consumption).
So it looks from here like a weapon of mass destruction gone wrong.

But to the subject:

Orthopod | 14. mars 2020

Personally

I think it is just a virus spread from poor hygiene in a country where people consume the testis if dead aphrodisiac animals to get a boner. As simple as Ignorance is bliss.

David N | 14. mars 2020

Initial thought was why wouldn’t Chinese Communist party let U.S. and WHO doctors and scientists into China at the initial outbreak to help with containment/vaccine etc...
Even today although they have allowed some in they still will not allow them into city and lab facilities where it originated.
U.S. thought is, that if allowed in, doctors and scientists would discover that this was a Chinese made lab experiment gone wrong.
Every leader of every country should look at the China government for what it really is, a communist country led by a few powerful families that will continue to lie to the world to keep their power over the Chinese people.
In the end, this outbreak will hopefully make all of us better prepared for the next.
My heart goes out to the Chinese people and all those affected throughout the world.

jimglas | 14. mars 2020

just because you are paranoid doesnt mean that they are not out to get you

SCCRENDO | 14. mars 2020

Both the USA and China have a lot to gain by helping each other. One of them harming the other may succeed in harming the other more but both lose. This pandemic should be a great lesson that we benefit more from working together rather than working alone. Globalism is far better than isolationism. I guess a possible downside of globalism is that diseases spread far more easily. Medicine does not have borders and we need to work together as a team.

BadgerErickson | 14. mars 2020

You're all over the map with your question here.

Please re-focus and re-post.

A.) The Chinese government, first and foremost, is about protecting the Communist regime form of government. They see their very own people as expendable resources, like trees or garden vegetables. Grow more behind the great wall of disinformation/misinformation.

B.) The Chinese government has ZERO morality or ethics per human rights in labor, quality of life, etc.. Why would they think anything more about "Americans" in acquiring our natural resources, for themselves?

C.) As the US economy goes down, China has more prospects for acquiring these natural resources. Get it?

C.)

rxlawdude | 14. mars 2020

@Badger, Got Paranoia?

SCCRENDO | 14. mars 2020

@badger. We both have our problems. What you said about China could easily be said about Trump. I did not for one moment suggest that it was easy. And I did not suggest that China did not need to play its part. My approach in life is different. Partnerships when they work are for mutual benefit. The best way to achieve this is for both to reach out and find a compromise. Sabotaging each other will move the relationship backwards rather than forwards. And I was not advocating just us compromising. It needs to be bilateral. But it is much more likely if at least one party reaches out with some compromise. If totally rejected then there is no point in moving forward. Trump’s approach from the beginning was more stick than carrot

rxlawdude | 14. mars 2020

The people proffering the Chinese military experiment are the same ones who voted for Trump.

'nuff said.

Ross1 | 14. mars 2020

@rxl: nup.
Proof?
Evidence?
And you a lawyer?

FISHEV | 14. mars 2020

"So it looks from here like a weapon of mass destruction gone wrong."

It looks like every flu virus for the last 50 years. The yearly flu vaccines all derive from China based flu's and then using them to build the vaccines.

What's in it for China is the same thing that's in it for the US. Nothing.

US is China's biggest trading partner and China is US's biggest trading partner. Both countries have very strong economic reasons to want stability and expansion in the other.

Follow the money.

teslu3 | 14. mars 2020

Is China so evil that me must cut off trade? The current American focus on coercion and greed is thought by some to lead to greatness. This trade war is cutting USA businesses off from markets and business relationships in China. It is having the effect of diminished USA effectiveness on its desired business practices in China, of reducing USA sales to China, of ceding leadership to China in emerging technologies (e.g., renewable energy, batteries, EV's, AI). It is hurting many USA businesses, permanently as Chinese businesses realize they cant trust the USA and designs out the USA products they used to rely on.
An alternative perspective could lead to a better outcome:
https://www.scu.edu/ethics/focus-areas/business-ethics/resources/busines...

Ross1 | 14. mars 2020

USA used to show world leadership.
It no longer has that reputation internationally.
There is no world leadership any more.

teslu3 | 15. mars 2020

Does the USA lead the world in well educated graduates and work ethic? The combination of USA education policies (De Vos strives to privatize education at higher cost to students) and immigration restrictions is not leading to a brighter future. Should we criticize Tesla for opening a design center in China?
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/08/future-tech-dominance-china-outnum...

Mike83 | 15. mars 2020

The US is falling behind not only China but the EU with the pro pollution agenda. Maybe California can pull the rest of the US into the real world. What is that saying, stupid is as stupid does?

SCCRENDO | 15. mars 2020

If you believe in the free market we need to trade. Liberals believe in free trade but there needs to be a level playing field. No matter how cheap we should not buy goods that are not environmentally friendly and those that are made through child labor and payment of starvation wages. Even though this may not mean as much as $15 an hour in other countries. Trump uses tariffs as a punishment. And like in any war the stronger side may “win” but both get heavily wounded and damaged in the process.

Mike83 | 16. mars 2020

Chinese currency is up against the dollar. I prefer holding stock long term than inflation eroded currency.
Fossil fuels are a dying industry. Those with the newest tech will lead the world and the laggards will lose big time.

rxlawdude | 16. mars 2020

@rxl: "nup.
Proof?
Evidence?
And you a lawyer?"

Evidence is Fox "News" website comment section. It doesn't take much to find the conspiracy theorists (of course, it's the "Dims" behind it), nor to realize they're just nucking futs.

rxlawdude | 16. mars 2020

@Ross, oh yeah. I'm a lawyer. With a science/clinical background. Uninformed conspiracy theories tend to come from the right. Also threats of violence or civil war.

Source: Fox "News" comment sections. And those are not bots nor false flag posts. These morons believe their shit.

Tesla2018 | 16. mars 2020

Don't try to make it political. An ex girlfriend was a Democrat and had more conspiracy theories running around in her head than anyone I know. She even told me to get a passport a few years ago because we would need to leave the country because the government was using mutant insects for biological war and they were eating away at her brain after she was bitten by one and they would kill us all eventually. There was enough truth in some of the things she said that seemed crazy. (She really did live a few houses away from Shah of Iran when she was young and her father ran some stuff for a government contractor over there). Also told some nutty stuff about aliens watching us. Crazyness doesn't belong to any political party.

Mike83 | 16. mars 2020

It is very simple. Uneducated individuals don't understand science and like in the good old dark ages believe all kinds of superstitious crap like rabies is caused by the devil. Thus, they believe in conspiracy theories such as Climate Change is a hoax, immunizations are a gov. conspiracy, people from Mexico are not good and many other fantasies

FredMertz | 16. mars 2020

The Chinese hold US issued debt, largely Treasury Bill & Bonds. There is no mechanism to "call in" that debt. The premise makes no sense. Also, the US buys 18% of China's imports. If we're sunk, they're sunk. Mutual survival, mutual destruction.

Ross1 | 16. mars 2020

@Mike83:
Can you emphatically prove that disease is not caused by the devil?
I can make a good (original) case that it might be.

Mike83 | 16. mars 2020

Ross1 have you lost it?

andy.connor.e | 16. mars 2020

china loses a huge customer base if the US goes down. it would be a huge investment opportunity with everything essentially on a massive sale while alot of people have lost most of their net worths. We can only hope we can find a way to spare businesses and people for the short term and not have the entire country collapse because we have to stop operation for a few months. What a pathetically fragile system we have, and if anything this is the kind of 'in your face evidence' that this system is shit. Collapses under not being able to continuously run.

Ross1 | 16. mars 2020

Mike: no I found it.

SCCRENDO | 17. mars 2020

@Ross. It is very difficult to disprove many things. It is far easier to prove things. A common anti-science argument is that failure to disprove something is evidence of it being true. I would say that the onus is on them to prove the existence of the devil beyond a reasonable doubt.

As regards China, we are a world economy. And when a significant trading partner goes down everyone else goes down with them.

SCCRENDO | 17. mars 2020

I appreciate how Trump and Foxnews have changed their tone. This was creating complacency among the MAGA hatters. Glad to see that they have learned that a pandemic is above politics and above the economy. People are distancing themselves. And I am predicting a turnaround soon
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/03/17/fox-news-coronavirus-cove...

Ross1 | 18. mars 2020

@SCCR: do you mean the onus is on them to DIS prove ...the devil?

SCCRENDO | 18. mars 2020

No the onus is on them to prove the existence of the devil

GoldAK47 | 18. mars 2020

They gain world power. Thats the ultimate goal.

Its getting that way here, china runs its own media, and only allows certain messages out. Same as the Democrat run media is here, they try to destroy the right with stories. Its effective, lots of people believe the message. Thats how China keeps its people in check.

blkice | 18. mars 2020

They try to destroy the right with STORIES. Don’t know where to start.Fucking porn stars while you’re wife is pregnant then covering it up right before the election was enough for me. How you can vote for a man with no morals is beyond my understanding but l do understand he’s not up to handling this pandemic.

SCCRENDO | 18. mars 2020

@GoldAK47. You are an example of a MAGA hatter that needs to get onboard. When you return to planet earth turn on Foxnews. They have since realized that the dems were right and this pandemic thing is rule. No Chinese plot or hoax this time. And unless we are going around the world shooting everyone infected your AK 47 ain’t happening

FISHEV | 05. april 2020

Ross1 | April 5, 2020 https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-b...

Text book conspiracy theory."There’s no proof the coronavirus accidentally escaped from a laboratory, but we can’t take the Chinese government’s denials at face value."

THERES NO PROOF.....BUT we are going to say it as foolish people will pay us to say it.

What is does provide proof of is the lack of journalistic credibility for National Review which was alway a journal of right wing opinions not journalism in any sense dating from its founding by right wing opinionated William F. Buckley, creepy member of wealthy New York banking family.

it also provides proof of those who read and believe in conspiracy theories and their need to believe in these fantasies to try and give order to what appears to them a chaotic and scary world.

Not sure what comfort it gives the Trumpers though. If Covid-19 is a Chinese biological warfare attack on the US, it makes Trumps failure to heed NSC and scientific communities warnings about Covid-19 even more a national security failure and reason for his removal from office.

Trump role in the conspiracy theory would be that of collaborator for his efforts to stop US defense against the virus.

OCModel3 | 07. april 2020

The U.S. and China are so dependent on each other economically that it would make no sense for either country to try anything intentional that would cause the other to collapse. Neither wins.

Nobody could rationally think that the Chinese intentionally released this virus on the world. Whether it was a major lab accident screw-up or originated due to the Chinese culture of wet markets or other strange eating behaviors, the fact of the matter is it originated in China and the communist government was not timely or transparent in notifying the rest of the world on the scale and magnitude of the spread. So the entire world is suffering now as a result of this, and the end appears nowhere near.

Whenever a world war ends after millions die, there is usually some effort made to effect changes that will hopefully prevent another similar devastation from happening again. It does not always work (see the Great War response) but better to try something than just accept it and let it happen again.

So what will be the world response this time? Can the world demand China ban high risk activities for pandemic potential like wet markets (which Dr. Fauci wonders why they haven't already)? The world does just not sit around and let countries develop and test nuclear weapons without objection. Does the WHO need a do over after they appear to have been fully compromised by China in this episode? Do other countries impose severe trade restrictions and sanctions until China commits to an open process for any other virus that appears within their country? Meaning full and prompt access to labs and records of initial patients affected by such viruses.

People can spew political vitriol all they want, but at some point, when something like this happens that devastates the entire world, there is blame to go around everywhere. But the focus needs to be on what can be done to best prevent it from happening again. And it is not racist but based in reality to say that China is going to have to change their ways, both its government and the culture of its people, to be a part of the solution.

FISHEV | 07. april 2020

Its more what does Trump's Fox Pundit Trade Representative Peter Navarro have to gain from Trumps trying to blame China for Trump's failures in the US.

Book sales. Navarro, a discredited right wing economist writes "Yellow Peril' books for a living. So drumming up the yellow peril is money in the bank for Navarro.

SCCRENDO | 07. april 2020

I hope we start the Mar A Lago trials modeled on the Nuremberg trials next year.

FISHEV | 07. april 2020

"the fact of the matter is it originated in China and the communist government was not timely or transparent in notifying the rest of the world on the scale and magnitude of the spread."

China was on top of it pretty fast notifying WHO when there were just 40 cases but enough that China infectious disease experts sound the alarm and notified WHO on Dec. 31st. China went into blast mode then, locking down 11,000,000 and mounting a pandemic defense that saved China from the third world debacle of the Trump Pandemic.

Dr. Desai explains it clearly with dates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nFVl40TU_4&feature=youtu.be&t=118

billdragon | 11. april 2020

The WHO is pretty much run by the PRC.

SCCRENDO | 11. april 2020

And you are run by the signals that penetrate the aluminum of your MAGA hat

jimglas | 12. april 2020

@billdragon:
Turn off fox
They are lying to you
Repeating their lies
Makes you look stupid

FISHEV | 12. april 2020

More a case of what does Fox/Trump/GOP gain by trying to blame China for Fox/Trump/GOP failure to act when warned about Covid-19.

"WHO warned of transmission risk in January, despite Trump claims"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/who-cited-human-transmissi...

Fox/Trump/GOP had been "at war" with China as part of the original election strategy and the madcap trade policies that ensued but that should have made FoxNews/Trump/GOP hypervigilante instead as China, WHO, US intelligence warned of the virus Trump was praising China and downplaying any risks.

"Trump’s Deadly Mistake in Comparing Coronavirus to Flu"
https://theintercept.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-flu-comparison-trump/

SCCRENDO | 12. april 2020

I guess the elephant in the room is not NSAIDs or chloroquine but as Darth likes to put it “someone was a day late and a dollar short
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-respons...

blue adept | 14. april 2020

@Ross1

>>> "What does China have to gain from USA going down?"

The short answer is 'Communist world dominance in all facets of commerce, trade, finance, technology, labor, economy, et al.'

FISHEV | 14. april 2020

blue adept | April 14, 2020 "The short answer is 'Communist world dominance in all facets of commerce, trade, finance, technology, labor, economy, et al.'

China and Russia are not communist anymore they are capitalist oligarchies, military dictatorships. Think Trump with is recent outburst "The President has ALL THE AUTHORITY"...

The FoxNews/Trump/GOP campaign to blame China for Trump's failure in the Covid-19 crisis is so weak. He even played a campaign video at the Covid-19 briefing showing how Trump saved the world.

Of course five minutes later Trump had meltdown when reported asked him why his CDC appointee ignored his Chineses counterparts call and warning on Jan, 3, 2020?

China needs US as a customer, we are China's biggest trade partner, so China needs US buying again as much as US needs China to start supplying US again. We get most of disposable medical stuff (gowns, masks, surgery kits) from China and we'll need them to re-open.

jordanrichard | 14. april 2020

Having stuff made here in the U.S., is just about the only thing I agree with Trump about. It's fine to have plants in other countries, but that should be a supplement to what is made here. Government vehicles historically have all been made in the U.S., so that in the event of war, our mobility wouldn't be compromised if should we go to war with a country that supplied us vehicles. That mindset/law should apply to the bare necessities like medical items.

NAFTA should have never been created.

blue adept | 14. april 2020

Technically speaking, according to the CIA's World Factbook, China's system of governance is that of a "communist party-led state":

"Communist - A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single - often authoritarian - party holds power; state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society)."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

Russia (and by 'Russia' I mean 'Putin'), on the otherhand, has come to refer to their ('his') nation's system of governance as a "semi-presidential federation".

That breaks down to 'presidential' -

"A system of government where the executive branch exists separately from a legislature (to which it is generally not accountable)";

And 'federation' -

"A form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided - usually by means of a constitution - between a central authority and a number of constituent regions (states, colonies, or provinces) so that each region retains some management of its internal affairs; differs from a confederacy in that the central government exerts influence directly upon both individuals as well as upon the regional units."

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

In otherwords (see what I did there?), if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it must be a...

https://www.boredpanda.com/wholesome-cute-duck-pics/?media_id=1888830

blue adept | 14. april 2020

@jordanrichard

Certain corporations chose the avarice of selfishness and greed over national integrity and economic stability.

bp | 14. april 2020

While China suffered for a few months from the virus, the impact on the rest of the world has been much worse and will last much longer, made worse by the lack of transparency of the crisis when it was mostly confined to China and when other countries could have taken more steps to prepare for the virus and limit progression.

Longer term, when this crisis is behind us - China will likely suffer the most. Companies and countries will likely move manufacturing from China to other countries or back home to reduce their reliance on what's become a single source for much of today's manufacturing.

For US consumers, we should expect product shortages for a while when things start getting back to "normal" as industry shifts their manufacturing - and we're likely to see some price increases since China had won much of their manufacturing business by driving manufacturing costs so low to make it difficult to compete. Even if products cost a little more, we'll likely see an increase in US manufacturing - especially for critical products (drugs, ...).

As for Tesla and the Tesla community - long term impact isn't as clear. China is a critical EV market - so Tesla will continues to have a presence there - and may continue relying on manufacturing in China from critical components (such as the FSD processor board).

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