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Where are auto makers going to get their batteries from?

Where are auto makers going to get their batteries from?

Ok, almost all major auto makers have come out with some type of crap about how they're coming out with their own EV or Hybrid. Where are they planning on getting all the batteries they need?
Elon is only doing 500,000 cars and he needs his own battery factory.
These other manufactures have the ability to produce several million cars, where are they planning on getting their batteries?
I don't see any other batt factories under construction. If they have to buy their batteries isn't that going to be make their cars too expensive?
I think they are all a lying sack of BS.

TeslaTap.com | 07. juni 2016

Volkswagen has said they are going to make a $11 Billion battery factory. LG and Samsung are also becoming big players. The difficulty is forecasting demand and the time to scale a factory - likely 2+ years from start to actually producing batteries. Tesla not only has a huge jump, they have the leading battery company Panasonic helping. Other than compliance cars (volume in the low 1,000s) I think it will take 5 years for Tesla to get a volume competitor.

Hi_Tech | 07. juni 2016

VW only mentioned they'd bring it up for discussion at board meeting... from what I understand. Not that they've committed to the $11billion battery factory (which they expect would be ready in 2025, I think).

Besides for that piece of news this week, I've had the same question: where are auto makers going to get their batteries from?

I've heard things about BYD working on building out a factory and also about other battery manufacturers, but have heard no specifics on the size or plans of growth.

jordanrichard | 07. juni 2016

David N, that is the question the media needs to ask these companies when they announce their respective Tesla Killer. The media also should ask point blank how are their customers supposed to go on long road trips with out a proper convenient charging network.

dansplans | 05. juli 2016

Neither the traditional automakers, nor the battery manufacturers are going to fully jump into the electric pond until Tesla proves the concept beyond all doubt. Automotive suppliers must survive on high volume, low margin business. Lithium ion batteries, and particularly those destined for auto factories are pretty much the definition of a low margin business.

There are several players large enough to support the traditional automakers slow entry into the EV business. VW may or may not put shovel to ground for battery factories in 5 to 10 years.

Also don't discount the possibility that Tesla themselves will supply batteries to their EV competitors, if they have the production capacity to do so.

bb0tin | 05. juli 2016

@dansplans
You said "until Tesla proves the concept beyond all doubt."
They already have.

You said "Lithium ion batteries, and particularly those destined for auto factories are pretty much the definition of a low margin business."
What are the margins?

You said "VW may or may not put shovel to ground for battery factories in 5 to 10 years."
Where did this number come from besides the obvious?
Do you know of VWs plans for 20 new electric vehicles by 2020 and 1 million per year by 2025?

You said "Also don't discount the possibility that Tesla themselves will supply batteries to their EV competitors, if they have the production capacity to do so."
You should. Tesla is constrained by battery production and will be so for the forseeable future. The demand for PowerWall and PowerPack is vast.

NB:
You continually post your willfully ignorant and incorrect opinions.
Please bother to check them out before posting them.

dansplans | 05. juli 2016

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dansplans | 05. juli 2016

I see no requirement for meeting the anal retentive obsessions of Mr Wormwood.

dansplans | 05. juli 2016

" incorrect opinions" this is an oxymoron.....speaking of morons, here is Mr Wormwood now

bb0tin | 05. juli 2016

@dansplans
Your posts are not "helpful and useful" although they are accidentally "entertaining"
You "misrepresent yourself" as someone who knows what they are talking about.

dansplans | 06. juli 2016

Tesla has only proven that electric cars are cool and an awesome toy for those who can plunk down $100k. Everything else is still on the drawing board. Tesla may or may not be successful at marketing electric cars, storage and PV systems. It is way too early to declare victory.

In the real world, where companies have to earn a profit, and back up all their claims with commensurate sales and production numbers, Tesla is barely past the prototype stage. If the market continues to patiently wait for Tesla to produce something close to projections, Tesla may survive long enough to become much more than a Wikipedia asterisk. If the market begins to slam Tesla every time they fail to deliver on projections, Tesla will fail financially, long before they reach the "proof of concept" stage, let alone save the world.

There are currently about half a dozen lithium battery factories for sale around the world, with no buyers interested. Forget about low margin, how about no margin. When battery demand from the EV market takes off, those plants can supply much of the early demand. Had Tesla not begun purchasing large quantities of Panasonic batteries, Panasonic would have had the same supply glut issues that all of their competitors have had. FYI in 2013 alone 3 lithium battery manufacturers listed on the Nasdaq declared chapter 11 in the US.

I agree with Hi_Tech that announcing autos is not producing autos. In this I am from Missouri. For non Americans, that means "show me". VW is saying lots of things to try to save face and rally public support. You lied about emissions for years? Announce 20 new electric cars, giant battery factory included....blah blah blah.

The last part was only slightly tongue in cheek. Of course a company as magnanimous as Tesla would share their battery production. Not to do so would be very un-Musklike. The assumption that Tesla can and will sell 500,000 cars per year is far from certain. June 2016 sales total under 6000 and 2016 ytd under 20,000 units. Hardly world changing at this point. At this growth rate Tesla will be begging their competitors to take their batteries off their hands.

http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

bb0tin | 06. juli 2016

@dansplans
You said "and an awesome toy for those who can plunk down $100k."
When the S is the highest selling premium car, and highest rated, it is not a toy.

You said "It is way too early to declare victory."
When the S is the highest selling premium car, and highest rated, it is time to declare victory.

You said "Tesla is barely past the prototype stage."
When the S is the highest selling premium car, and highest rated, it is well past the prototype stage.

You said "...Tesla will fail financially, long before they reach the "proof of concept" stage,
When the S is the highest selling premium car, and highest rated, it is well past the proof of concept stage.

You said "Forget about low margin, how about no margin. "
You have no idea what Tesla's battery margins are.

You said "When battery demand from the EV market takes off, those plants can supply much of the early demand."
No they cannot, which is why Tesla is building the Gigafactory.

You said "Panasonic would have had the same supply glut issues"
Panasonic had to quickly expand production to meet the S demand.

Your post is ignorant rubbish as usual.