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Is it all about the Supercharging Network + drive-in, roller skates & rock restaurant, near the 405?

Is it all about the Supercharging Network + drive-in, roller skates & rock restaurant, near the 405?

"But here’s the thing. As a piece of new driving technology, the Bolt totally works. But the adoption curves and take-up rates of new technologies aren’t driven simply by the efficacy of the technology in and of itself. New innovations require infrastructure to reach their full market potential. Often that infrastructure has to be built by companies other than those who build the original products. And right now, electric cars remain hindered by a massive infrastructure gap."

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_juice/2017/04/electric_cars_l...

Except the SUPERCHARGING NETWORK.

_________________________________

I sometimes think of the first time you talk to anyone who has never owned an EV. Imagine the scenario. (I'll call him ICE):

ICE: I heard you have a Tesla?
Me: Yup. Love it.
ICE: Where do you charge it?
Me: At home most of the time.
ICE: But what about on trips. [Insert crazy once every five year trip.]
Me: I can go anywhere. There's a network of 1000 fast charging stations that take about half an hour. Then you can drive another 2-4 hours, without stopping. And Tesla has installed another 10,000 at malls, casinos, wineries, hotels and other destinations that are free for guests.
ICE: But how do I find them?
Me: It's in built into the dash. Push a button and the pop up all over the map.
ICE: Do I need an adapter.
Me: Nope. But if you ever want to try any of the other slow/expensive and inferior networks, Tesla includes a set of adapters.
ICE: How much does it cost to charge on road trips?
Me: It's free for life. 400kWh/year. If you use up the free kWhs, then it's about $10 for a 2-300 miles of range. Plus they "put an old school drive-in, roller skates & rock restaurant at one of the new Tesla Supercharger locations in LA, near 405.
ICE: Wow. I'm buying a Tesla.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/949831212326993920

+++++++++++++++++++

Here's a little morality play. Let's try that again with EVERY OTHER EV ON THE PLANET TODAY:

ICE: I heard you have a Bolt?
Me: It's great as a second car.
ICE: Where do you charge it?
Me: At home.
ICE: But what about on trips? I drove last year to my grandma's house from Idaho to Zzyzx
Me: I'd take your gas car. There's some charging, but it's pretty slow. I mean hours of charging. Average driving speed 20 miles per hour if you account for charging. I tried once to drive from [insert very reasonable trip of about 300 miles] and it was crazy. I said never again. I'll take the gas car on long trips and drive the Bolt for my trips in town.
ICE: How do you find the charging spots?
Me: There are a variety of apps for that.
ICE: Do I need an adapter?
Me: Yes. And you still not be able to use some charging stations. It can be frustrating. And they don't often work. And they don't always provide the charging speed claimed. It sucks.
ICE: How much does it cost to charge your Bolt on a road trip?
Me: Costs about twice as much to fuel as a Prius.
ICE: I heard that Tesla opened up their supercharger technology to all the other carmakers. So you can charge your Bolt at a supercharger, right?
ME: That would be really really nice, and would allow me to use my Bolt for all of my driving, but unfortunately not. [HT @mntlvr23]
ICE: Wow. I think I'll keep my gas car until they have it all figured out.

KP in NPT | 05. april 2017

YUP.

Tesla is the only car we would consider because of it. We both have regular commutes that require it and anything less than L3 won't cut it for us. Which is why we are getting a second Tesla to replace our ICE.

SamO | 05. april 2017

@KP,

I mean, when mainstream press starts figuring it out, then hopefully GM, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infinity, Ferrari, Bentley, Fiat and Chrysler can BUY A CLUE.

Jump on the Supercharging Network.

I'll be fully electric July of this year when I take delivery of my first Model 3. And yes . . . I count my chickens before they hatch ;-)

Frank99 | 05. april 2017

SamO -
Don't say "hatch" - it invites evil spirits.

SamO | 05. april 2017

@Frank99,

If there's one thread that GM trolls dare not enter, it involves infrastructure.

Frank99 | 05. april 2017

;)

Carl Thompson | 05. april 2017

Another Bolt-bashing topic? That's totally what this forum needs.

KP in NPT | 05. april 2017

Not the Bolt specifically, though it was mentioned in the article cited. It's about all EVs. infrastructure is needed. Let's see how VW does. Maybe that will help.

SamO | 05. april 2017

Blame Daniel Gross for his totally off-the-wall perspective that EVs need infrastructure.

What a hater. Doesn't he know that the Bolt is totally "adequate."

And isn't that what every girl wants? Adequacy.

akgolf | 05. april 2017

And why all of GMs new EV are flying off of the dealer lots, who needs a charging infrastructure.

They must have come in first for sales last month right. I mean the 2016 car of the year, it's a hatchback, it's available, you get the full federal tax credit, it's an engineering marvel. I bet you could tow a boat with it!

akgolf | 05. april 2017

What you excluded the 2016 COY, isn't it selling well?

It had to outsell the Leaf last month right? I mean they're in a similar price range, the Leaf only has a third of the range so it was probably crushed.

finman100 | 05. april 2017

those have a 'charging' infrastructure due to the fact they use gasoline. They are not BEVs.

SamO | 05. april 2017

Empty? Every time I get in my car, every Supercharger within 300 miles shows 1/2 full or MORE.

Red Sage ca us | 05. april 2017

SamO: The problem is that 'the mainstream press' makes their money from advertising. Tesla doesn't purchase advertising from them. So, Editors-in-Chief are handed down mandates from Publishers that tell them Tesla will get no good press until they pay the piper. The Journalists and ANALysts are nowhere near as dumb as they feign. They want to keep their jobs. They all know full well the advantages of the Supercharger network. They all know full well the joy of waking up to a 'full tank' every morning. They know, even if they haven't experienced it themselves, because their Friends and Family members have told them. They know because they have read the gazillion testimonials here at this site and elsewhere that Tesla Enthusiasts gather. They know, but are not allowed to spread that truth, because that would be 'good news'. So the do as they are told, and do their best to 'spin' whatever they can into 'bad news' about Tesla. And they know full well it doesn't work, because any 0.39-to-0.51 second Google search for TSLA will bring up sources that prove them wrong.

Lazar1944 | 05. april 2017

Let's see now.....if I can charge my Tesla sufficiently in 20 minutes and travel further than the "other" fella, maybe that's why some super chargers sit empty. Now, if it took 40 minutes to get a measly 70 miles charge, I'd be tying up charging stations, so other folks could not use them....unless they had the time to wait. Brilliant!

However, once 200000 of us get on the road, you can bet the super chargers will be busy.

gavinfaulkner | 05. april 2017

It would be pretty negligent if Tesla haven't done their maths with regard to supercharger demand when their mainstream autocar proliferated. If they have donever the maths then they will have done the planning required to get ahead of the Model 3 rollout. It would be pretty bad business practice and downright stupid to allow supercharger places to go beyond capacity.

I think Sir Musk (because he should be knighted) has something up his sleeve, whether that be extra rapid supercharger rollout or the implementation of faster charging rates...or both.

Frank99 | 05. april 2017

>>>is not something that really works for the weekly travel.
Tell that to Tesloop. They seem to have made a fine business out of long-distance travel using Teslas.

Frank99 | 05. april 2017

Wow, you really don't understand the supercharger network, do you? Do you really believe that placing Superchargers every 150 miles on all the major interstates was intended as "a security blanket"? Hell, no, they were placed to recharge vehicles on interstate trips.

tstolz | 05. april 2017

Anyone who has traveled any distance in an EV knows not only is L3 is vital .. but multi-stall L3 is vital. Yes you can do it with L2 and even L1 depending on the trip, but it will take you forever to get anywhere. Do the math ... it gets ridiculous quick!

SamO | 05. april 2017

Except that this article doesn't even mention Supercharging. acts like it doesn't even exist.

Clueless.

SamO | 05. april 2017

Charleston WV permitted. Intersection of Interstates 64/77/79.

Thanks Tesla.

tstolz | 05. april 2017

Eagles presence here is disingenuous. Ignore and flag him ... sad.

Red Sage ca us | 05. april 2017

The keyboard on this laptop is worse than on my phone. It spontaneously deletes posts before I can submit them. Than sucks. I'm gonna have to do something else...

Anyway... the short form: At worst with about 2,069 cars per location, Superchargers are already more dense in the U.S. than gas stations are at 2,083 ICE vehicles per location. SHELL only allows for as many as 10,000 vehicles per location. In actuality, current status is about 355 Supercharger enabled cars in the U.S., both Model S and Model X, per each of the 352 active Supercharger sites.

There is no need to have a Supercharger 'on every corner' or 'at every exit' because most people will be charging regularly at home. By allowing about 1,000 miles of 'free' charging per year for new Customers, Tesla apparently expects that for a typical 15,000 mile per year driver, they expect that only around 6.66% of annual driving would use Superchargers anyway. That makes the 355:1 ratio go down to a mere 24:1.

jordanrichard | 06. april 2017

I for one, would not have bought my car if their wasn't a charging network for long distance travel, that was as convenient as getting gas. I ordered my car in Jan 2014 at a time where the supercharger network was practically in it's infancy. When I took delivery the following March, there were only 3 superchargers in all of New England, but I had faith that Tesla would follow through and continue to expand the network. Now there are 16 SC in New England. I have driven up and down the East coast 3 times, with no issues or any real time delays due to having to charge.

Haters can cite all the "...well the average commute is 40 miles", "most people fly if the distance is more than 200 miles", etc.etc. all they want. The general public, meaning non EV people, buys cars based on perception. They perceive EVs as being limited in travel distance and they don't like buying something that is limited. Yes, the "range" of a gasoline car is dictated by it's MPG and size of the gas tank, but people don't think about gas cars that way, because they can simply get gas anywhere while traveling. So the supercharger network is meant to make it as convenient to "fuel" your EV as it is a gas car.

You have to address and to a degree, cater to people's way of thinking. We have all been asked how many miles can you go on a charge and how long does it take to fill that back up. That is based on the habit of waiting until your gas tank is empty and then filling it up.

KP in NPT | 06. april 2017

+42 JR! We didn't seriously consider a Tesla until we started seeing superchargers on our regular routes - The one at Darien was the first I saw and I said, "wow. this car could work for us." People who have never considered EVs will never do it if they don't "think" they have the freedom to travel anywhere - even if they rarely do. A car is a major purchase and people want the option to travel anywhere if they're going to make such a big purchase.

jordanrichard | 06. april 2017

So, you all the way out in Oregon, know the precise supercharger usage here on the East coast, from your vast experience from using it..............

Civicrick | 06. april 2017

Nice Eagles! Naming a source specifically!

jordanrichard | 06. april 2017

Actually Tesla is all over the world, data wise. If Tesla did say that, then that would be more credible because they have the data for all of the superchargers. So their corporate location is irrelevant.

Carl Thompson | 06. april 2017

Wait. He said "esla" and not "Tesla." Flag!

(Just kidding)

SamO | 06. april 2017

Hey. Anyone want to buy a 90% car?

How about a 90% boat?

Who'd fly a 90% jet.

A rocket?

Tesla Supercharging and Destination charging networks are #SpecialSauce

SamO | 06. april 2017

Hey. Anyone want to buy a 90% car?

How about a 90% boat?

Who'd fly a 90% jet.

A rocket?

Tesla Supercharging and Destination charging networks are #SpecialSauce

Red Sage ca us | 06. april 2017

Or, even if twice as many installed Supercharger capable owners were to use them more often, it would come to only ~13.33% of the installed user base. And, if five times as many were to use them, it would still be only ~33.33% of Supercharger locations occupied on average. Thus, ~66.66% availability. That ain't none too bad. And the Supercharger network is steadily growing anyway, just to make sure.

4fishtankz | 06. april 2017

When I drive, I see more available Tesla superchargers, than the regular chargers for other EVs. Will I use them often? no, but it's extra peace of mind that they are there when I need an unexpected charge or need to take a long trip. Less range anxiety.

Civicrick | 06. april 2017

I plan on getting the most basic m3 as theres a good chance it would be sold before I owned it that long. But this talk of distance between superchargers got me thinking... anyhow, what are the estimates of cost for stepping up a battery size from the base?

Bluesday Afternoon | 06. april 2017

I'm currently using the Supercharger Network. So far I've traveled 1620 miles of my 2400 mile trip through the heart of California and Oregon (aka I-5) and down the Oregon Coast from Astoria to Ferndale, CA (for the night). Back on CA 101 in the morning to continue my journey and not once have I used any of those L chargers. Every mile done on Tesla Super Juice!

This trip brings back Route 66 memories and the long dormant desire to see America from my Model S. And, I do applaud Elon Musk for creating a convenient recharging environment (still in its early stage). This network sealed the deal in buying my Model S two years ago!

Civicrick | 06. april 2017

"With Superchargers typically 100 miles apart"

So how much do you think it will cost to step up a battery size from the base size

Frank99 | 06. april 2017

>>>So how much do you think it will cost to step up a battery size from the base size

Hard to say. A Model S 75D -> Model S 90D is a $10K upgrade for 15KWH, or about $667 / kwh.
A Model S 90D -> Model S 100D is a $3K upgrade for 10 KWH, or about $300 / kwh.
So, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict "Somewhere between $300 and $600 / KWH".

It's not known at the moment what battery sizes Tesla will offer on the Model 3. My WAG is a 55 KWH, and a 75 KWH. That's 20 KWH, so maybe $6000 to $12000, which might get you 80 more miles of range, say 215 to 295.

Haggy | 06. april 2017

Most US car buyers have garages and multiple cars per household. As a second car, that leaves plenty of room for the Bolt. Most people only make long trips a few times a year at most, and are very unlikely to need to do so in all the cars in a household at once.

That leaves perhaps close to 100 million cars that could be replaced with a Bolt without problems, and they are only counting on 30,000 sales a year. Even if it's only 10 million, there's still plenty of room for the Bolt.

akgolf | 06. april 2017

I'm really looking forward to road trips in the Model 3, something that I can't do in my Leaf and would be really inconvenient in other long range EVs.

Civicrick | 06. april 2017

Hmm. thanks for the input. I thought I remember someone putting a battery size = 0-60 time estimate table up. Wish I could remember where that was

Bighorn | 06. april 2017

@Frank
I don't think you're doing apples to apples in the 75D to 90D upgrade considering the marked performance enhancements. Instead consider the 60 to 75 jump for $6500 and you're back to $433/kWh.

Frank99 | 06. april 2017

I was trying to compare the S 75D to the S 90D (not the P90D), so I assumed they were essentially identical cars with a different battery pack. I see that the S 90D is a second faster 0-60, but I assumed that was an artifact of the bigger battery and not "performance enhancements". I don't claim to be an expert on Model S variations, so I'm likely wrong.
I didn't want to compare the 60 to the 75, because the price difference there is purely artificial - same battery pack, different price.

finman100 | 06. april 2017

please just shut up

Bluesday Afternoon | 06. april 2017

finman100

I can flag that guy from a Supercharger...and, I did! Gotta love those Superchargers! 8-)

akgolf | 06. april 2017

GM fan boy(Eagles) feeling pretty threatened by the Supercharger network, don't think I've seen him this worked up before. Must have been those anemic sales number for the Bolt last month, obviously the lack of an adequate infrastructure is hurting their sales.

bj | 06. april 2017

The ONLY reason I have confidence in going ICE-free, and hence the reason I chose Tesla, is the Supercharger network. Even if I only use it a few times per year, I know it's there and makes it possible for a BEV to be my primary car.

Oh year, and that GM has given a big middle digit to RHD markets, leaving the playing field to Tesla, Nissan and BMW.

SamO | 06. april 2017

10% of annual miles are long distance requiring some charging solution.

Tesla has the only one so far.

fact.

JayInJapan | 07. april 2017

75s and 90s have different levels of power available, not just the battery difference.

dyefrog | 07. april 2017

"Must have been those anemic sales number for the Bolt last month, obviously the lack of an adequate infrastructure is hurting their sales."
You do have to wonder since it seems range doesn't help their case. When the lowly Leaf at 1/2 the range is selling more, you have to step back and question it. I realize there are other criteria affecting those numbers as in states available or attractive lease rates but I'm still shocked to see more people choose the Leaf.
In my case, it's all about the supercharger network.

SamO | 07. april 2017

@dyefrog,

Ive noticed that people who have never owned an EV still think that range anxiety is about range. When it is so clearly about access to fast charging.

I'm a perfect example. The original range on my S60 was 209 miles, but usually I stop every 100-150 miles. A variety of factor’s including speed, rain, snow, cold and wind act to reduce range. Without Superchargers, my coast to coast trip is possible but would take more than a few days.

Here's a customer story from May 2013, before the Supercharging Network was ubiquitous. Drove 15,000 miles over 5 weeks in a Model S60. Not fast, but totally fun.

https://www.tesla.com/customer-stories/cross-country-trip

dyefrog | 07. april 2017

If I was given the choice of a 200 mile range Tesla or a 300 mile any other EV, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to go with the Tesla (or any other brand that partnered with the Supercharger Network.

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