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Tesla: The Elitist Myth

Tesla: The Elitist Myth

Recently Carl Thompson posted a thread where he made certain accusations. Among them were...

"...consider themselves Tesla biggest fans are very often rude and dismissive..."

"...many people here consider Tesla ownership an exclusive club that makes them better than everyone else..."

"...seemingly elitist and superior owners like these..."

I take issue with those excerpts, which were stated as unassailable facts, without evidence.

Tesla owners typically want as many people as possible to share in the experience, I've found.  No elitism or superiority at all, yet they are still repeatedly accused of displaying it.

CT's post is not a good one, because it repeatedly expands upon the myth of an 'elitist exclusive' attitude that does not exist, while providing ZERO evidence of it taking place here.  No one has ever told anyone here to NOT buy a Tesla because they must be excluded from the club.

• People have come here, $#!+ in the foyer of the supposed 'club', yelled "This is what I think of you all!" then complained of unfair treatment upon being shown the door. Those actions mean you have excluded yourself.

• People have come here, gave a long list of why they could never buy a Tesla, accused anyone who did buy a Tesla of being a blind misguided moronic idiot robot cultist, then been told they are correct, that Tesla wasn't right for them, and that they should stick with the products they prefer.

• People have come here, stated with strong language and in no uncertain terms that Tesla would NOT get their money until or unless a specific list of features were offered. They were told that indeed those features exist in other product lines and Tesla has shown no interest in offering them so far, but maybe they should try again when/if they do.

You may be able to find the occasional post that says something like, "A Tesla Is a 'Thinking Man's Car', and some people are unfortunately ill-equipped in that regard." It has been written in these forums that Tesla has the 'Techie Smart@$s Demographic' locked down cold. But I have not witnessed Tesla owners saying that ownership of their cars was in any way an endorsement for elitism. It is a shame that certain political movements in recent decades equate 'elite' with 'education' or even simply being 'smart'. Tesla owners I have encountered are certainly smart, but most consider themselves fortunate or lucky (maybe hard working), more so than privileged or deserving (not entitled).

I have not seen any Tesla owner claim they were 'better than' anyone else, ever. I personally find it 'rude and dismissive' to suggest they have. But please, do demonstrate by giving examples of when carlk, carlgo2, SamO, Rocky_H, Haggy, sbeggs, Pungoteague_Dave, Roamer, jordanrichard, or PhillyGal have told anyone they should buy something else BECAUSE they were BETTER THAN THEM due to being Tesla Owners. Alternatively, you can show me where any of them have stated that exclusivity is a factor in their ownership.

Go ahead. I'll wait. Because I know that in the light of truth, that false narrative fails, every time.

Mttcoco | 06. februar 2018

ReD eXiLe ms us "Tesla owners typically want as many people as possible to share in the experience, I'very found. No elitism or superiority at all, yet they are still repeatedly accused of it."

That's hilarious and easy to disprove.

"I have not seen any Tesla owner claim they were 'better than' anyone else, ever. I personally find it 'rude and dismissive' to suggest they have"

No, these people never, ever say that. It's implied with condescending snarkiness and often with obvious condescension. But we could argue about semantics all day... It seems as your comment is playing to the owner base....like Trump or Fox News plays to theirs.

Reality here is different than you portray it to to be, but I'm sure this reasonable observation will be discounted and dismissed as well.

Shock | 06. februar 2018

Your criticism might have been more appropriate in the thread in which CT said it instead of creating a new thread about it 8-)

andy.connor.e | 06. februar 2018

I appreciate it when someone else can break down the BS. When it comes to the internet, anyone can say anything about anything. Typing a sentence does not require evidence, and more respect goes towards those who know the truth, and can point it out. Its only ever recommended to people to not buy a Tesla because they typically charge into the forums 'guns blazing' telling everyone why they dont want to do it, or perhaps even (recently) threatening to cancel their reservation. As if that is somehow a valid thing to do. Its like threatening to step out of line at the newest game console release day. Everyone behind you would much rather you step out of line so we can get there faster, especially when WE'RE ALL WAITING, and YOU'RE COMPLAINING. Waiting is hard enough as it is, and we dont need to hear your mouth.

But as i've said before, "Topics are typically responded to in the fashion that they were delivered."

Carl Thompson | 06. februar 2018

@ReD eXiLe ms us:
"Recently Carl Thompson posted ..."
"...consider themselves Tesla biggest fans are very often rude and dismissive..."
"...many people here consider Tesla ownership an exclusive club that makes them better than everyone else..."
"...seemingly elitist and superior owners like these..."

I made it very clear in my thread that I was only talking about _some_ owners _here on this site_.

You quoted certain parts of my sentences and paragraphs to attempt to make it sound like I made general statements about all Tesla owners everywhere.

A new low, even for you.

Madatgascar | 06. februar 2018

CT, you did say “a lot of,” not “some.” The intent is obviously to suggest there is a snobbish atmosphere on this forum. I’ve seen that very rarely, and I’ve been on since early 2013 (new handle notwithstanding).

andy.connor.e | 06. februar 2018

The only time i see true disrespect, is when people come on the forums 'guns blazing'. Those who have been around since reservations opened are actually quite civil to those who provide serious conversation.

El Mirio | 06. februar 2018

@Red The long time members here are genuinely trying to help out and answer questions, I appreciate their tone and attitude. I do have my reservation on flagging behavior on the general forum, seems some are too quick to judge and trigger happy, other then that, a bunch of sympaticos.

Carl Thompson | 06. februar 2018

@Madatgascar:
"The intent is obviously to suggest there is a snobbish atmosphere on this forum."

Thank you for telling me what my intent was. That's informational because I _thought_ my intent was to suggest that owners (who have a lot of influence here) be a little bit more understanding and compassionate to others on the forum that may not be as knowledgeable as they.

carlk | 06. februar 2018

The goal of most long time members here is to share their experiences and help others to have the same enjoyments as they had. That applies to anyone who's interested in the car. I don't think there is a shred of elitist thinking that somehow some people deserve that more than others even though some are obviously not very interested in enjoying it. That's just their personal decision.

bayareakid2008 | 06. februar 2018

Me thinks this Red guy needs to get a life. This entire post is couched in condescension. Trolls will troll I guess.

DTsea | 06. februar 2018

bayarea, red has been a popular and respected forum poster for years. he's no troll. after 7 years i have seen plenty of them.

Madatgascar | 06. februar 2018

@CT, your quotes above are not exactly taken out of context. Where do you see people calling new owners “stupid” or “idiots”? I have not seen this on the Model 3 forums. These forums are a love fest compared to the days of McLary calling everyone an idiot. Bighorn has been getting uncharacteristically impatient with some newbs lately, but do we have a lot of elitists?

dvanlier | 06. februar 2018

I’m not sure what forums you’re reading, but any time someone suggests that Tesla is missing a feature they had in another car, you get about a dozen responses like, “guess tesla isn’t the car for you” or “go buy an ice car”. So there are probably hundreds of thousands of examples over the years if you search hard enough of people saying not to buy teslas.

eeb9 | 06. februar 2018

Context is everything.

Remembering to state "my opinion" and/or "my experience" when commenting goes a long way.

Stating opinion as fact is a recurring Logical Fallacy here (along with False Equivalence, Ad Hominem and others). And, yes, I've been guilty of the opinion-as-fact myself... ;-)

It's sometimes easy to hide behind internet anonymity, but in general this forum is remarkably civil. At least compared to some others I've seen... lolololol

Madatgascar | 06. februar 2018

@dvanlier, that’s just like the standard smart aleck response to “doctor, it hurts when I do This.” Yeah I see this a lot but I guess I never think of it as elitist. As the internet goes, Tesla forums are really pretty civil.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 06. februar 2018

Shock suggested, "Your criticism might have been more appropriate..."

No, no, no... stop right there. I did post this under Carl Thompson's thread. Then I realized that due to its [FOULED] up nature, the more people who responded in a manner that exposed his true nature, the more likely he would DELETE his own damned thread, then claim in another that the Tesla Cultist/Ninja/Na.zis had conspired to keep him silent by [FLAGGING] it into oblivion and beyond. See, I've seen such a tactic employed before, when an anti-tesla thread begins to overflow with truth that extinguishes the flames of FUD. Trolls simply take up shop in a new thread that spews the exact same [BORSHT] and hoping their own content remains untouched or [IGNORED] by those who can refute it, so that it can hopefully infect the minds of anyone unaware of their true nature. So, to the immortal query, "Can't we all just get along?" I answer resoundingly, "Not with your lying @$s, Buster!"

Carl Thompson chastised, "A new low, even for you."

Precisely as I would describe the post you made that I quoted to start this new one. Just when I thought you couldn't go any lower...? Here you are -- congratulations!

Carl Thompson gratified, "Thank you for telling me what my intent was."

You are most welcome! Your intent was to give insult to all who offer intelligent, well-informed debate and to incite class warfare among Tesla enthusiasts by drawing an imaginary line between 'US' and 'THEM' to make division where it did not exist, and to establish yourself as a shepherd of a flock that despises those who came before them -- because YOU said so.

This is beyond being childish or adolescent behavior. It is now bullying of the lowest order. The kind where someone who is weak and bored whispers into another kid's ear, "Hey... He's over there talkin' bout yo Momma! Are you gon' take that $#!+? I wouldn't take that $#!+ if it was me... Why don't you go teach him a lesson? " What did they used to call that? Oh, I remember! That's called 'INSTIGATING'.

[some-13-year-old-kid] wrote, "...couched in condescension..."

No. I NEVER condescend. I expect people to understand me, always. I will use a clever turn of phrase from time-to-time, but my primary form of communication is sarcasm.

Those who condescend expect that if someone asks a question, they cannot possibly be smart enough to understand a straight answer. People who condescend will dumb things down just enough to make sure what they say will still go over someone's head. A person who takes on a condescending tone has no intention of educating anyone, helping anyone, or admitting when someone is smarter than they thought. In short, they are typically frauds who put on airs for show.

I'm not like that at all. I am genuinely amazed, astounded, and surprised when someone turns out to be precisely as stupid as they seem. My default is actually to presume someone is pulling my leg when they suggest a course of action (like voting for Donald J Trump) would be a GOOD idea. I am full of optimism and always hope that humanity can pull themselves out of the doldrums and just do the right thing, once and for all.

A condescending reply to your post would not be so complete or informative. It would be dismissive and insulting. Maybe something like, "Oh! Lookit da poor widdo millennial! Trying to post angst filled rebuttals like a big boy! Isn't he just... precious?!? He even managed to work in a prepositional phrase using a four syllable word! Just devine! Garçon? More wine!" See the difference? That would be 'condescending' and maybe a bit 'patronizing' too. Pay attention, you just might learn sumphin', Son!

dvanlier: Please, pretty please, with sugar on top, and a whole bunch of chocolate honey-dipped roses around it, take the time to find a couple dozen of those '...thousands of times..." that a Tesla owner has told someone to buy another car specifically BECAUSE THEY ARE '...better than everyone else...' as Carl Thompson noted MULTIPLE TIMES in his own thread. Though, yeah, he did at least use the qualifier 'seemingly' once. I think he did that by accident, and probably meant to use a synonym of 'always' instead.

Shock | 06. februar 2018

"I’m not sure what forums you’re reading, but any time someone suggests that Tesla is missing a feature they had in another car, you get about a dozen responses like, “guess tesla isn’t the car for you” or “go buy an ice car”."

Nobody can deny what you just said, at least not honestly.

It's hard enough to even get certain people around here to admit tesla screwed up with the phone-as-key or admit that maybe--just maybe, mind you--not including simple and widely enjoyed features in other cars may--gasp--say something more about Tesla, and less about the person complaining about the lack of the feature.

"the more likely he would DELETE his own damned thread"

Then let's just join hands and blame the forum software so we can all get along, because IMO it shouldn't be possible for people to delete their own threads on forums. I have seen it on facebook where the people in my neighborhood group get in arguments (very fun to watch) and then one realizes they went too far and they delete it. I learned to screenshot these worked up facebook threads just for posterity.

rxlawdude | 06. februar 2018

I think the charitable and accurate description of existing Tesla owners here is "not suffering [trolls] lightly."

LostInTx | 06. februar 2018

As a shockingly disinterested observer, I wonder how:

[some-13-year-old-kid] wrote, "...couched in condescension..."

..can be interpreted as anything other than condescending.

Inquiring minds and such..

hkumin | 06. februar 2018

I am not a current Tesla owner and started reading the board after ordering two M3's online for my wife and myself on 3/31/2016. My reason was to learn as much as I could about a new innovation that was unlike my current ICE. Also, I live in a state that has zero Tesla presence, so I can't return to the pickup location which is 200 miles away if something turns out to be wrong and will have to rely on software or phone service to answer questions about the M3 that I have. So I appreciate the information that is furnished on the board from current owners. However, it was clear from the beginning that there was a small group of current owners who do not originate many posts, but reply to many new reservation holders who have questions, some reasonable, some frustrating to read, for example, "When do you think I will be able to order a blue interior", or "I ordered on such and such a date, will I get the the $7500 tax credit"? Sometimes the response to these types of questions are derisive. There are other occasions where a post has something negative to say about Elon Musk, or his company, or the cars, and current owners such as Red take it very personally and reply more strongly than I think appropriate. If I have an order for two M3's and have a negative comment which may be legitimate, does that mean I am a short seller of stock (I don't own any) or am a troll, or need to by a Bolt? So I believe that CT has a point.

bayareakid2008 | 06. februar 2018

This Red guy thinks he is much smarter than he actually is. He likes to post long winded, word salads in an attempt to seem intelligent. He never actually says much of anything, just prattles on with nonsense. Just look at the way he writes, [WHAT] [KIND] of [MORON] types like [THIS]? He doesn't look for intelligent debate, or to educate someone or help someone. His posts are solely intended to mock and denigrate anyone who does not agree with him. Again, he is a troll who needs to get a life.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 06. februar 2018

LostInTX: Oh, there are certain individuals here that I never reply to using their chosen screen name. I only replied at all because he wrote on a thread I started. There are a couple others I won't address directly to under any circumstances as they are solidly among... The [IGNORED]. ;-)

Years ago, I moderated a forum where an admitted 13-year-old was an absolute terror. His writing reminds me of that kid. Pretty much impossible.

LostInTx | 06. februar 2018

I'm with hkumin. I reserved a Model 3 on 3/31, am not a current owner and prior to reserving, had only casual interest in Tesla or EV's. For every nugget of wisdom gleaned from this forum, there are at least a few warm piles of vacuous drivel, cleverly disguised as enlightened commentary. Blocking people or "flagging" content that fails to adhere to your narrative is a coward's way of demonstrating an inability to engage in civil discourse.

There are plenty of helpful people on this forum, those whose first and often second impulse is to offer something other than ridicule.These people know who they are and more importantly, so does the average poster (thanks, PhillyGal).

Those who mock people, question their intelligence and generally behave like children, do us a favor and at least own your narrative.

The most disappointing eventuality is that many first time Tesla owners, instead of being vibrant participants and sources of fresh perspectives, will likely never visit this forum again. And that's very sad.

ron369 | 06. februar 2018

@Red ... your posts are generally condescending to the point of being amusing. I read them occasionally to get a laugh, but mostly I just ignore them. However, I have considered getting one of those filters to be able to turn them off.

And generalizations about a population of people one way or another are very rarely universally correct. In any internet forum I've followed, there are some very kind and helpful people, some super well informed people, some people that think they know a lot more than they actually do, and others that are just jerks. The Tesla forum is one of the better ones that I've followed (better in terms of there being more helpful people), but it is far from perfect.

Mr.Tesla | 06. februar 2018

Gibert: I just wanted to say that I'm a Tesla newbie, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other Tesla newbies. I mean uh, all our lives we've been laughed at and made to feel inferior. And tonight, those bastards, they trashed our thread. Why? Cause we're smart? Cause we look different? Well, we're not [different]. I'm a Tesla newbie, and uh, I'm pretty proud of it.

Lewis: Hi, Gilbert. I'm a Tesla newbie too. I just found that out tonight. We have news for the "beautiful current owners." There's a lot more of us than there are of you. I know there's others here tonight. When you went to post you might've been called a spazz, or a dork, or a geek. Any of you that have ever felt stepped on, left out, picked on, put down, whether you think you're a Tesla newbie or not, why don't you just come down here and join us. Okay? Come on.

Gibert: Just join us cause uh, no-one's gonna really be free until Tesla newbie persecution ends.

:-)

carlk | 06. februar 2018

I have been here for more than five years from a newbie to owner to old hand. I have never seen newbie revolts like this before. What happened?

ReD eXiLe ms us | 06. februar 2018

It is precisely because I still feel like a 'newbie' here myself that I am so hard on the 'newbs' that call out the bonafide mentors of this forum as being 'trolls'.

eeb9 | 06. februar 2018

@carlk -!there are about 400k more n00bs now than there were when you joined the boards... simple demographic stats will ensure that there are more NWA (N00bs wit attitude) than there were back in your day..:

;-)

warren_tran | 07. februar 2018

Lol at the responses on this thread. A simple reminder what happen when future owners (reservation holder) point out something as bait and switch method of headliner material swap to textile then Telsa is not responsible or liable for the change. Deal with it or don't buy it from current tesla owners response. It won't matter to me but the principal doesn't sound kosher in my opinion.

Nexxus | 07. februar 2018

@ReD, Don't look now, but he followed you here and magically, he hasn't aged at all!

KP in NPT | 07. februar 2018

I have a feeling most of the responses from owners taken as condescending are those that are to non owners who come here thinking they know more about the car than actual owners. Which is fine except when they are told otherwise, they argue. I can’t wait until they are owners themselves so they can see how ridiculous that is.

That has actually driven a lot of long time owners off this board. They actually make fun of it. It’s a shame because they’d have a lot to offer.

Mttcoco | 07. februar 2018

@KP

"I have a feeling most of the responses from owners taken as condescending are those that are to non owners who come here thinking they know more about the car than actual owners. Which is fine "

LOL! What a complete load! Typical dismissal. Don't worry. We non-owners are used to it.

KP in NPT | 07. februar 2018

Yeah. There it is.

carlk | 07. februar 2018

There were always two groups of people on this forum. Those who love Tesla and those who are not, or not so much. Differences between them are common but there were never newbie against old hand or top model owners showing elitist attitude or being accused of such by base model owners. Never a single case I can remember. Why all of sudden it became this have against have not thing? Let's not fall for some who are trying to stir the pot to further their hidden agenda. It's not going to do any good for anyone whether you have already owned a Tesla or are on your way to own one.

stammit | 07. februar 2018

This entire exchange is funny. Maybe we should rent a steel cage & some inflatable sumo suits and fight it out!

bayareakid2008 | 07. februar 2018

Do yourselves all a favor and block the following trolls. Your user experience will get much better:

carlk
KP in NPT
andy.connor
ReD eXiLe ms

There are more, I'm sure, but these are the worst offenders that I've found.

carlk | 07. februar 2018

Do you have a mirror?

KP in NPT | 07. februar 2018

What a joke.

Yeah because owners call out your bullshit, they're trolls. Your user experience will not get better because your only allies are your fellow trolls. Sorry if owners ruin your circle jerk.

You said you blocked me weeks ago - so get on with it then.

KP in NPT | 07. februar 2018

And BTW that's not elitism. If you were a fellow owner I can and do call out that BS, too.

SamO | 07. februar 2018

"THIS IS MY MODEL 3, THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT BUT THIS ONE IS MINE. MY MODEL 3 IS MY BEST FRIEND. IT IS MY LIFE. I MUST MASTER IT AS I MASTER MY LIFE. WITHOUT ME IT IS USELESS, WITHOUT MY MODEL 3 I AM USELESS.
I WILL DRIVE MY MODEL 3 TRUE, I MUST DRIVE STRAIGHTER THAN MY ENEMY WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, I MUST DRIVE HIM BEFORE HE DRIVES OVER ME….I WILL. MY MODEL 3 AND MYSELF KNOW WHAT COUNTS IN WAR IS NOT THE ROUNDS WE FIRE, THE NOISE OF OUR BURST, NOR THE SMOKE WE MAKE. WE KNOW THAT IT IS HITS THAT COUNT. WE WILL HIT…
MY MODEL 3 IS HUMAN, EVEN AS I, BECAUSE IT IS MY LIFE. THUS I WILL LEARN IT AS A BROTHER, LEARN ITS WEAKNESSES, ITS STRENGTHS, ITS PARTS, ITS ACCESSORIES, ITS SIGHTS AND ITS BARREL. I WILL EVER GUARD IT AGAINST THE RAVAGES OF WEATHER AND DAMAGE. I WILL KEEP MY MODEL 3 CLEAN AND READY, EVEN AS I AM CLEAN AND READY. WE WILL BECOME PART OF EACH OTHER. WE WILL…
BEFORE GOD I SWEAR THIS CREED, MY MODEL 3 AND MYSELF ARE THE DEFENDERS OF MY COUNRTY, WE ARE THE MASTERS OF OUR ENEMY, WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE. SO BE IT, UNTIL THERE IS NO ENEMY BUT PEACE."

bayareakid2008 | 07. februar 2018

SamO, are you a Marine or just a fan of Full Metal Jacket?

finman100 | 07. februar 2018

f%$k you bay area fuc king kid

spockagain34 | 07. februar 2018

I have him blocked, so I don't even know what he said, but I can't agree with you more, finman100.

BoRidge | 07. februar 2018

Could those of you who wish to perpetuate the BS above please just stop posting for a minute (on both sides). You are both at fault.

I am a 3/31 reservationist who has taken the time to educate myself regarding how the tax credit works, what the likely roll out will be based on self reported estimate windows, what to expect and not expect from my anticipated new car, and other things. I will more often take the time to read through threads to obtain an answer to a question I have rather than posting the questions that has been answered and discussed countless times. I am both annoyed by people who come on and post question/comments (often inflammatory) without doing their research. I am also annoyed by long time Tesla owners that have already received their invite who dismiss the concerns of those who have not.

End of day, yes this is very much a high horse post. However, people just need to let it go. The best way to combat trolls is by not engaging. Moreover, once you start engaging, both trolls and people with legitimate questions and concerns get caught up on the vitriol.

BoRidge | 07. februar 2018

Could those of you who wish to perpetuate the BS above please just stop posting for a minute (on both sides). You are both at fault.

I am a 3/31 reservationist who has taken the time to educate myself regarding how the tax credit works, what the likely roll out will be based on self reported estimate windows, what to expect and not expect from my anticipated new car, and other things. I will more often take the time to read through threads to obtain an answer to a question I have rather than posting the questions that has been answered and discussed countless times. I am both annoyed by people who come on and post question/comments (often inflammatory) without doing their research. I am also annoyed by long time Tesla owners that have already received their invite who dismiss the concerns of those who have not.

End of day, yes this is very much a high horse post. However, people just need to let it go. The best way to combat trolls is by not engaging. Moreover, once you start engaging, both trolls and people with legitimate questions and concerns get caught up on the vitriol.

carlk | 07. februar 2018

"The best way to combat trolls is by not engaging."

I've also heard "the only thing necessary for evil to exist is for good people to remain silent"

bayareakid2008 | 07. februar 2018

Damn Finman100, pretty harsh. Who hurt you?

Iwantmy3 | 07. februar 2018

Wow! I haven't spent much time on here recently and now I can see why.

ReD,
I can't help but think that this whole thread proves that Carl was right. This is exactly what he was talking about.

I continue to look forward to getting my model 3. Still, this is a large purchase and a big departure from what I am used to driving. It is natural to want to discuss any perceived deficiencies or other concerns in a forum where they can be discussed openly to acquire a variety of opinions. Unfortunately, these forums are not useful for that. Anyone who indicates any level of dissension get criticized and "flagged"

Go ahead, flag me for daring to say anything.

socaldave | 07. februar 2018

Two things:

1. KP is about the only adult in this discussion.
2. I don't believe every poster on this thread has made a reservation

bj | 07. februar 2018

Yeah, I can see this thread ending well...

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