Arctic Temperature Data

Arctic Temperature Data

To melt away the Arctic ice, it will take a lot more than 274 deg. K!

See the 2019 summertime temperatures north of 80 deg. North latitude? Same as the 1958-2002 mean!

andy.connor.e | November 12, 2019

No he can just twist what you said into a tangent and throw you onto the permanent defensive state so he doesnt actually ever have to respond to anything you say. Or rather, that he can be selective and choose what he responds to. Its never a real conversation.

jimglas | November 13, 2019
MitchP85D | November 13, 2019

Andy, putting YOU in allcaps is you plural. I guess you did not catch that. Your global warming zealot friends most certainly are trying to tell everybody what kind of car to drive and what kind of electricity plan to buy. I know you singular are not as extreme as YOU plural. Sorry that you had the misconception that I was accusing just you singular as supporting the authoritarian plan the Green New Dealers are trying to push. YOU is addressing all of YOU who are spouting off on this thread about human-caused global warming.

So Andy, you do agree that your global warming zealots friends, SCCRENDODO, Jimmy, and dim1240 are the ones trying force Americans out of their ICE vehicles and force them to buy electricity plans those silly 3 approve of, correct? And Andy, you do in part support such actions, correct?

andy.connor.e | November 13, 2019

"putting YOU in allcaps is you plural"

ya sorry but you is and has always been singular. If you want to address more than one person, that would be "YOU ALL" or to the southerners, "Y'ALL".

andy.connor.e | November 13, 2019

and no dude you do this everytime. I've been telling you since August when this thread started that im not part of any group thinking mentality. Yet you always apologize but you do it next time anyway. Your responses are robotic and you seem to not remember.

andy.connor.e | November 13, 2019

"So Andy, you do agree that your global warming zealots friends, SCCRENDODO, Jimmy, and dim1240 are the ones trying force Americans out of their ICE vehicles and force them to buy electricity plans those silly 3 approve of, correct? And Andy, you do in part support such actions, correct?"

That depends. Are they lobbying for legislative policies that would force people to do so? Because if they're not i'd be reluctant to believe that these people are physically forcing people to spend their money on certain products. So unless the former can be confirmed, no i do not agree.

MitchP85D | November 13, 2019

Check out the global warming happening now in America!

MitchP85D | November 13, 2019

Andy, this has been going on for years. You are relatively new. I have been battling the global warming zealots since 2014 about how Tesla should expand. I want to see Tesla grow by consumer choice. Not by government forcing people to buy BEVs. I don't want to see ICE abolished unless the consumer by their own free market choice quits buying ICE vehicles. Maybe that will happen in 50-100 years.

andy.connor.e | November 13, 2019

Responses have been given to you based on what you've said, and your questions were answered.

jimglas | November 13, 2019

" battling the global warming zealots since 2014"
with misinformation and lies.

MitchP85D | November 13, 2019

And jimmy cannot name a single thing of mine that misinforms or is a lie since 2014.

jimglas | November 13, 2019

just everything you post
Its all disinformation

And you conveniently ignore every bit of factual information that others post
then repost your crap

teslu3 | November 13, 2019

The "arctic blast" is a large negative anomaly in the USA and Canada, as well as in Russia.
Note the large positive anomaly in western Arctic Ocean.
Note also that the North Pole is not the coldest spot as it once was when ice was a better shield over the Arctic ocean.
With the warming Arctic, cold blasts are more frequently leaving the ocean to visit Canada and the eastern USA.

RedShift | November 13, 2019

“ And jimmy cannot name a single thing of mine that misinforms or is a lie since 2014.”

You lie!

sabbia | November 13, 2019

The temperature in Barrow Alaska reached a high of 22 F today. Normal high for this time of year is 7 F.

andy.connor.e | November 14, 2019

I think the problem is that Mitch is trapped in a time loop not being able to move passed starting this "battle" in 2014. Probably why new information cant penetrate his blood brain barrier.

MitchP85D | November 14, 2019

Just as I thought. jimmy can't name a single thing I've stated here in the Tesla Forum that is a lie or misinformation.

RedShift can't either. Both jimmy and Redshift think they can just make the command and everybody will bow down in awe over their purely emotional statements. I'm not one of them. And that upsets jimmy and redshift.

Go ahead. Tell me what is a lie about these graphs from the University of Bremen.

These graphs show the Antarctic and Arctic sea ice extents since 1973. Antarctica is basically unchanged during the past 5 decades. There is a decline of the Arctic Ice on the order of 2,000,000 km^2 since the 1970s. Previous claims and predictions of an ice free Arctic have all been proven false.

Go ahead you global warming zealots. Tell me that the University of Bremen is a lie or misinformation.

We will do this one by one. And one by one, none of you silly Green New Dealers will be able to make the case that I lie or misinform. All you can do is generalize. Truth is difficult to argue against. So, you slander those you have a political disagreement with.

SCCRENDO | November 14, 2019

How about
1. The Arctic Ice is not melting
2. Sea level is not rising and it is meaningless
3.CO2 level rise is good for the planet
4. The planet is not warming
5. You are a proud libertaraian who will not accept FEMA welfare cheese
6. Your flooding is not related to hurricane cause by climate change
7. Hurricane severity is unrelated to climate change
8. This was worse 840,000 years ago when humans weren't around. So it won't matter now even hundreds of millions of humans live at sea level

andy.connor.e | November 14, 2019

Sounds about right. I cant help feeling like you forgot one tho.

MitchP85D | November 14, 2019

Now, to surprise you global warming zealots. Here is some data to support what teslu3 posted.

See the DMI graph of the Arctic temperature take a spike upward? This due to the fact that the cold Arctic airmass has been distributed to the middle latitudes. There is nothing unusual about this. The earth is constantly in the process of equalizing the heat imbalance between the equatorial and polar regions of the earth. There is a major difference between the Northern and Southern hemispheres even though the basic heat equalization process is the same. The Northern Hemisphere has an ocean (Arctic Ocean) at the North Pole. The Southern Hemisphere has a large continent at its South Pole. However, the Northern Hemisphere has more than three quarters of the world's land mass.

Due to the Arctic Ocean being surrounded by huge land masses, there is a far greater exchange of heat between the middle latitudes and the Arctic region than there is in the Antarctic region. Antarctica is a land mass surrounded by huge oceans. There is not near the heat exchange from the middle latitudes to Antarctica as there is in the Arctic. This is why Antarctica is so very much colder than the Arctic. And this explains why the Arctic has noticeable multi-decadal swings in temperature. Not only is there heat transport into the Arctic by air, but the longer term heat transport to the Arctic is accomplished by ocean currents. How the ocean currents flow is what determines temperature and ice extent in the Arctic. This is what the late great Dr. William Gray had observed over his half century of climate research.

These natural climate variations are downplayed by many receiving government grants to "prove" human-caused global warming. This is why Dr. Judith Curry walked away from the global warming movement. It was blatantly obvious to her that the climate alarmists were dismissing the basic fundamentals of natural climate variation.

SCCRENDO | November 14, 2019

I indeed have forgotten a lot. But who cares. He is an idiot looking for a soap box. He is just like Trump and cronies. They make up crap and just keep repeating it. The try overwhelm you with quantity. Unfortunately it has zero quality

Uncle Paul | November 14, 2019

Geologically speaking, the polar temperatures, ice melt and ice buildup, depend more on the tilt axis of the Earth than atmospheric conditions.

When the tilt faces the North Pole towards the Sun, things warm up, the ice melts and it gets warmer up there.
At this time, the South Pole gets less Solar radiation, and cools considerably, Ice builds up and it gets colder.

When the Axis shifts, and the South Pole gets more Sun, the effects reverse.

Gotta look at both Poles when claiming Global Warming or Cooling. Can't just point to one place and claim the Sky is Falling.

MitchP85D | November 14, 2019

Response to SCCRENDODO's points one by one.

1. The Arctic melts and freezes at various extents from year to year, decade to decade, century to century.

2. Sea level is rising 1.0-1.5 mm / year according to tide gauge data.

3. CO2 good or bad? Not determined because we don't know what the optimal level is best for life. The earth has been greening though per NASA.

4. The planet warms and cools over long periods of time.

5. I am a pragmatist who buys insurance for my protection. How the insurance program is set up is out of my hands. If a tornado pulls my roof off, I will file a claim. If my home floods, I will file a claim. If my home burns down, I will file a claim.

6. My flooding was caused by Hurricane Harvey. There were secondary issues. Dr. Chris Landsea says there is no anthropogenic signal in tropical cyclones yet.

7. The Science and Operations Officer at the National Hurricane Center, Dr. Chris Landsea says that if there is a linkage of human-caused global warming to hurricane severity, it is quite small.

8. Hard to tell what you mean by "worse." The four previous Interglacial Periods were all warmer than our currently mild Interglacial.

MitchP85D | November 14, 2019

Hey Uncle Paul, welcome to the thread. The tilt of the earth's axis is a factor over tens of thousands of years, correct?

MitchP85D | November 14, 2019

Uncle Paul, you are correct about looking at both Poles if claiming global warming and cooling. You can't just look at one and claim the Sky is falling. That is what I do here. I look at both hemispheres. And because of that, I get called a denier by the Green New Dealers here.

SCCRENDO | November 14, 2019

Uncle is also a candidate for the Nobel Prize in physics and chemistry. Indeed he is correct. When the South pole tilts towards the sun it will be slightly warmer and when the North Pole does this it will also be slightly warmer. Amazing what they teach you in the 3rd grade these days

jimglas | November 14, 2019

I am glad the moron has his own thread to post his gibberish

sabbia | November 14, 2019

We can read Uncle Paul's post about the tilt of the earth's axis. Causes winter and summer. I wonder if 99% of climate scientists agree with him or if this is just bogus scientists trumping the system to win grants.

Or, maybe Uncle is still searching to kick poor people out of hospital beds.

SCCRENDO | November 14, 2019

@sabbia. I wonder if Uncle thinks that Trump is innocent and it is Hunter Biden colluding with Ukraine to get invaded by Russia and assisted in giving up Crimea.

pleaving | November 15, 2019

Like average tornadoes per year, because tornadoes dont spawn for 6/12 months.

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

pleaving, here is a distribution graph of tornadoes by month:

As you can see, tornadoes form year round.

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

And while at it, let's have a look at EF3+ tornadoes from 1954 through 2014:

The idea that human-caused global warming is making tornadoes worse and more frequent has been falsified!

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

Hey SCCRENDODO, are you a candidate for the Nobel prize?

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

Silly sabby, I don't think Uncle Paul was referring to the seasonal changes concerning the earth's tilt. I think he was addressing Perihelion and Aphelion.

The earth is closest to the sun during the Northern Hemisphere winter and farthest during the NH summer. But over thousands of years that will change. But that is my guess what is was saying. Uncle Paul, is that correct?

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

If the earth is farthest from the sun at Aphelion while the Northern hemisphere is experiencing summer, that means the Southern Hemisphere is at winter. Maybe that enhances the winter cold in the SH. Probably a small factor because the earth's orbit is more circular than elliptical.

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

Go ahead jimmy, point out my gibberish. The fact is you can't!

andy.connor.e | November 15, 2019

gibberasho levels are approaching critical mass

MitchP85D | November 15, 2019

Neither can you Andy.

SCCRENDO | November 15, 2019

I’m sure the Venetians are happen to hear that sea levels have been at this level 840000 years ago

jimglas | November 16, 2019

Drowniing Venice is just another chinese hoax
Dont believe your eyes
(or ankles and knees)

MitchP85D | November 16, 2019

Guess what SCCRENDODO and jimmy, I have in my possession your greatest nightmare. DATA!

Venice has a tide gauge. Want to have a look? Or, will you look the other way.

Sea level is rising at the rate of 0.8 foot in 100 years. The latest flood event is 2nd highest recorded. The worst was back in 1966. If you global warming zealots are trying to make the case that human-caused global warming caused the flooding recently, then what was the cause in 1966?

A strong southerly wind combined with an astronomical high tide is what caused the flooding.

RedShift | November 16, 2019

How about this data.

They had about 4 heavy flooding incidents per year in the early 1900s.

Now, they have it all the time.

Take a look at the bar graph Mitch, and tell me, what do you see in the DATA? :-)

MitchP85D | November 16, 2019

Subsidence is a factor you swept under the rug RedShift!

They do have an engineering project (MOSE) going on there to block the storm surges. It is expected to be completed by 2022. The officials believe that if MOSE was operational, this would have prevented the recent flood event.

RedShift | November 16, 2019

I swept something under the rug? When?

No comment on the graph, eh? Not surprised. DATA! Damn DATA!

Leaves nothing to hide behind, eh Mitch? I’m glad you like data.

RedShift | November 16, 2019

Here is the snippet that is most relevant when discussing MOSE:

“ In theory, the gates and additional coastal defense measures being undertaken will protect Venice against storm surges bringing storm tides of up to 3 meters (9.8’). Lower parts of the city begin flooding at a water level of 0.8 m, and the gates are designed to be closed when water levels exceed 1.1 m (3.6’)—enough to flood 14% of the city. However, multiple studies have found that if sea level rises 0.5 m (1.6’), the gates would allow considerable flooding of Venice, since water would find new entry points into the Venice lagoon to the north and south, and leak through the gates. Furthermore, the gates do nothing to reduce the incidence of nuisance flooding--when ordinary high tides combined with heavy rains flood less than 12% of the city. With some climate scientists warning that Earth could see sea level rise 0.5 m by 2050 – 2080, the MOSE gates may have to close every day and open only at the time of low tide just a few decades after they go into service.”

Not my opinion, but that of ScientificAmerican.

MitchP85D | November 16, 2019

Subsidence RedShift, that is what you swept under the rug. The land is sinking. and this contributes to apparent sea level rise. The actual sea level rise there is about 9 inches per century.

RedShift | November 16, 2019

*I* didn’t do anything. You really aren’t very bright.

How much is this subsidence every year? About 0.8 mm / year.

While it does play part, its not the ONLY one. AGW exacerbates the situation. Which you continue to deny, because of your underdeveloped gray cells.

MitchP85D | November 16, 2019

I was simply pointing out that subsidence contributes to the increasing number of flood events per unit time.

I hope the Italians will get their poop together so they can complete the flood mitigating project. It has run into cost overruns and delays.

RedShift | November 16, 2019

You were not taking the proportion into account. And you accused ME of ignoring it.

SCCRENDO | November 16, 2019

Gee we could build a 100 ft wall and Venice won’t flood. So you see that sea levels are not rising. What are you zealots talking about?