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Automatic Windshield Wiper

Automatic Windshield Wiper

I took delivery in December 2016 of Model S It is July 2017 and no automatic Wipers Is there anybody out there that has not recieved A download for rain sensitif WIPERS. I cant understand why everybody just talked as the car floats on water yes it is a good looking car but what good is it if it never gets completed.The only think I hear is it is coming but nothing ever happens.
Any body that takes delivery of model S should turn it down also the Model 3 the same way if none of the features that are listed on the placard on the window god only knows when you get a download too make the car complete.
Tesla is a great company but it does not walk on Water.

Hans

TeslaTap.com | July 5, 2017

It is not a current feature of the Model S. Many threads on this topic. Is using the wiper control all that difficult?

AmineTx | July 5, 2017

Only HW1 for now.

reed_lewis | July 5, 2017

When the rain is a very light mist, I have to turn the wipers on and off, on and off. So it is rather annoying to have to do this.

The car was advertised as having it. It does not.

Stop defending Tesla's not meeting deadlines. It reeks of cheerleading. And it is not difficult to do sensor wipers.

lilbean | July 5, 2017

I despise the automatic wipers. They are so sensitive. I don't turn them on for a couple drops of water. Then the rest of the windshield is dry. I turn the feature off.

reed_lewis | July 5, 2017

It depends on how well it is implemented. On newer cars that I have, it works well.

reed_lewis | July 5, 2017

But independent of that, even if some people do not like it, the car is suppose to have it.

lilbean | July 5, 2017

True.

dknisely | July 5, 2017

The AP1 feature works great in my experience in Seattle - actually much better than I had expected. What is most annoying is that we don't even get a decent intermittent feature in lieu of the auto-wipers that every high-end car has. The slowest intermittent speed is much too fast for light rain conditions, and it has no speed sensitivity (so for most rain/mist conditions, any setting that is adequate for when you are moving is scraping the window and destroying the blades when you stop). What's the point of having AP for stop-and-go conditions when you have to continuously operate the wipers with single swipes on demand? Please AT LEAST give us the speed-dependent intermittent feature that my 2008 Prius has!

And even worse -- auto wipers is almost essential with AP because the sensors are easily blocked by rain, so you are forced to use wipers in almost any rainy conditions.

I'm pretty sick of this screwup, and still very resentful for Elon's mocking response to my tweet in February! At least we're in the dry season in Seattle, but once fall arrives, it will be very annoying again.

BigD0g | July 5, 2017

Not to steal TeslaTap's thunder but it is extremely hard to do automatic wipers on AP2 Tesla's because we do not have the rain sensor on our cars. Instead Tesla is going to have to invent someway of doing this with the cameras and variety of focal lenses to "see" the rain. Given, all the other crap that's missing, I hope this is very low on the priority list.

reed_lewis | July 5, 2017

According to the owners manual at: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_am...

It says:

"To wipe the windshield, rotate the end of the
left-hand steering column lever away from
you. You can choose from four levels:
• 1st: Auto with low rain sensitivity.*
• 2nd: Auto with high rain sensitivity.*
• 3rd: Continuous, slow.
• 4th: Continuous, fast.
For a single wipe, press and release the end of the lever.
If the wipers are set to Auto and the sensor detects no water, the wipers do not wipe. When you operate the wipers, headlights automatically turn on (if they are not on already).

*Model S has a rain sensor located on the inside of the windshield at the base of the interior mirror. When wipers are set to Auto, the frequency at which they wipe depends on how much water the sensor detects. When
wipers are set to the 2nd level, the sensor is more sensitive"

So it is supposed to have rain sensors.

I wonder if they are not there anyways, and have not been used yet?

Dramsey | July 5, 2017

On Feb. 8th of this year, Elon, in response to a query about rain sensing wipers on AP2 cars, said "Of course it will" have them:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/829509777218613248?lang=en

That same day he tweeted that we "should" have auto wipers "by next month":

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/829447188325412866

Then in May he tweeted we'd hopefully have them by June:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/866480832302555136

SO...you know...patience.

Hover | July 5, 2017

For the price we paid the car should not just be nice exterior, instant torque and silent ride. These are all good. But witout the high tech features (EAP2, autowipe) working properly a big chunk is missing. I may at some point consider returning back to a high end ICE if this continues.

dknisely | July 5, 2017

Yeah, @reed_lewis, we have none of that on AP2.

@Dramsey - Elon's snide response was to my tweet. I accept that in the moment he believes that stuff, but he needs to get a lot closer to reality in his assessment of his Tesla R&D team's SW capabilities. It didn't take a rocket scientist to realize how hard it would be to do accurate rain detection with a fixed focus, hyperfocal camera near the glass.

Silver2K | July 6, 2017

I wouldn't mind going through HW2 growing pains, but sensors for basic stuff should work and should not have been tied into autopilot.

by the way, pre-ap sensors work also :)

Silver2K | July 6, 2017

Elon's tweets are based on what he expects from his development team and I'm sure his info comes from them.

I doubt very much he purposely makes promises knowing it will not get done. there is a reason why there was some canning recently.

All the complaining is fine and everyone has the right to complain, but to constantly beat the dead horse takes a toll on the developers and Elon himself. This forum is read by the team (ex: recent response to why it takes so long to get parts) and I'm willing to bet my life on the fact that Elon reads it also. It pressures everyone to try and make everyone happy and promises are made with timelines that are tough to keep.

Dramsey | July 10, 2017

To be fair, people would likely quit beating the dead horse were Elon not so eager to drag its shambling corpse back up again. It’s not as if this is a new development; he’s been doing it at least since I’ve been a Tesla owner (early 2013).

BigD0g | July 10, 2017

Elon really hasn't tweeted about AP2 / features in quite some time, now I kinda miss it =(.

I do believe though, with the .76 release we are close enough that we need to give up on this quest for AP1 parity and move on to AP1 superiority. Let's stop asking for parity and start asking to move the needle. Everyone keeps asking for 2 years ago technology, it's time to start asking for today's technology. We can start with highway to highway transition maybe? Reading speed limits will come, I have no doubt, I've given up on rain sensing wipes, and could care less, but really, I think we need to move past all the AP1 stuff and start getting into the forking of the road!

*Walks away to out on his flame proof suit*

Boonedocks | July 10, 2017

"Elon really hasn't tweeted about AP2 / features in quite some time"

I think Elon, or someone reporting to Elon, has read the forums since his promises, expectation setting dates of Silky Smooth definitely by next week came and went by well over a month ago and irritated enough people to say "just stop making unfulfillable promises and setting expectations just to be broken again and again"

I would rather hear crickets chirping from a high at Tesla than more of the same old rhetoric. Elon even tweeted something about it. I think he gets it now. Make a promise, set an expectation, at lease make sure there is a chance in hell that it can actually happen.

BigD0g | July 10, 2017

@Bppmedocks yup, I hope so =).

kgillum_2000 | July 10, 2017

Interesting the Service Center advised me today to just wait for this feature on my brand new 90D. I did not really realize until I saw it working on the AP1 loaner they gave me.

Solarfan | July 10, 2017

"The automatic Windshield Wiper function has actually not been released yet to any vehicle with the Autopilot 2 hardware. While we do not know exactly when, it will be coming in a future firmware update soon. For now, this feature cannot yet be activated."

"Regards,
Nolan Christensen | Vehicle Support Specialist"
.................
Good, SOON!

sule | July 10, 2017

My early 2014 MS has auto wipers that work well for me. Want to switch? :)

hans.radtke | October 10, 2017

Great car, and all. But for the price of a Mercedes S-Class you could very well to have bleeding autmatic wipers. I appreciate this may be a non issue in California - but where I live & drive, it tends to rain more more often. My ex-wife‘s Mini has them, for a fifth of the price.

And guess what: Said Mini - bought three years ago! - can also read speed signs without having to rely on Google fracking Maps. Speed limit info you get in your 2017 X is woefully, ludicrously incorrect.

I mean, come on, Tesla - you‘ve been building cars for a while now... sheesh!

hans.radtke | October 10, 2017

(Written in true rant mode: Apologies for my garbled writing)

Silver2K | October 10, 2017

speed limit info is provided by tom tom to Tesla and the mini cannot read signs, the speed limit database is provided to the gps system by a third party.

gregrt | October 10, 2017

Hold on. I picked up my MS 2 weeks ago, and just noticed it did not read speed signs on a trip last weekend, like the sales person said. Mmmm

Ohmster | October 10, 2017

Oh, oh, here we go.......

robek4 | October 22, 2017

Hi, my tesla was received June 27, 2017 and there is no rain sensor and character reading because everything is programmed in gps navigation, and somehow it annoys me because the car costs so much money and there are no basic things that have cars of lower classes.

Silver2K | October 22, 2017

Do those lower classes have what any tesla has?

bpyle | October 25, 2017

I took delivery in December 2016 as well and still do not have rain sensing wipers. These were an option that I paid for.

TeslaTap.com | October 25, 2017

@bpyle - You have a valid beef. It has not been a stated feature on the car since January 2017 when it was removed from the list of features, so other complaints with newer cars are not all that valid. Still it is a very desirable feature, but one that doesn't appear possible with the HW2 production that starting in October 2016.

As background, Tesla thought they could detect the amount of rain using the cameras and a bit of software. The idea has merit, but was hardware implemented before the software was written. So they removed the hardware rain sensor expecting a quick software solution. The prior sensor detects rain 1/4" away from the sensor on the surface of the windshield.

The cameras, designed for AP, are focused on the road not the surface of the windshield. My guess is the task is almost impossible to make this determination with software with a camera not focused on the windshield. I have a small amount of hope it can be done, but the task is anything but trivial.

Rocky_H | October 25, 2017

@TeslaTap, Quote: " It has not been a stated feature on the car since January 2017 when it was removed from the list of features,"

Hmmm, so this just occurred to me. Since I don't have the newer style stalks, what are the wiper settings now? My early 2014 has the four positions of auto sensing (low), auto sensing (high), Low, and High. I have always hated that their wasn't a regular adjustable intermittent because the auto sensing sucked balls anyway, even back then. So do the new cars still have those same four settings, except now those first two settings don't even do ANYthing, or do they have intermittent?

Mfox7044 | October 25, 2017

The first 2 setting are intermittent and the last 2 are continuous.

Solarfan | October 25, 2017

@TeslaTap.com | October 25, 2017
" . . . My guess is the task is almost impossible to make this determination with software with a camera not focused on the windshield. I have a small amount of hope it can be done, but the task is anything but trivial. . . . "
.............................
- Pre-purchase, Tesla told me that the rain sensor and auto wipers were included.
- My new May 2017 delivered Model S came with the rain sensor described in the manual.
- How will Full Self Driving be implemented on cars lacking automatic windshield wipers?

TeslaTap.com | October 25, 2017

@Solarfan - Can't answer to what a one sales person stated. They do make some mistakes.

The manual was written before the feature was removed from the feature list - but good point. It's also missing some features added since the manual was made as well.

If they can't figure out rain sensing, I presume FSD will not work in the rain unless you manually turn on the wipers. Tesla (and every other company) never say FSD will work in all conditions. In fact, I expect there will be a lot of conditions FSD will not work in. It may even be the competitive advantage for a car company that has FSD working better than others when encountering bad conditions. I hope Tesla remains in the forefront, but it's going to be a dogfight!

SteveZzz | October 25, 2017

A clear windshield will not be needed with FSD as the occupants of the car will not need to clearly see the road! :-)

Silver2K | October 25, 2017

SteveZzz | October 25, 2017
A clear windshield will not be needed with FSD as the occupants of the car will not need to clearly see the road! :-)

-----------------

You may be right, but the NHTSA will not allow it for safety reasons

am_dmd | October 25, 2017

@TeslaTap "Tesla (and every other company) never say FSD will work in all conditions."
Unless I missed it, is that mentioned anywhere under FSD description on Tesla's FSD description?

Solarfan | October 25, 2017

@TeslaTap.com | October 25, 2017,

" . . . If they can't figure out rain sensing, I presume FSD will not work in the rain unless you manually turn on the wipers. Tesla (and every other company) never say FSD will work in all conditions. In fact, I expect there will be a lot of conditions FSD will not work in.
.........................................................
So, following your logic, when Elon's kid is sent alone to school in Elon's FSD Model S, and it starts raining on the way, the car will just stop and wait for a sunny day. Elon will get an alert, and can then jog out to drive his kid to school. If Elon is far away, his kid can read the manual till Elon shows up.

Tesla's cross-country Full Self Driving demo that is to start December 2017 may encounter areas where it rains or snows. The car will then stop and wait for clear weather and complete the trip sometime in August 2018. That is, if it does not deplete the battery while waiting for clear weather.

Good point on Tesla never claiming that FSD will work in all conditions. All Tesla need do is specify that Full Self Driving will work in conditions that are between 69 degrees and 71 degrees Fahrenheit, between 1 PM and 2 PM, and when when the Moon is in Aquarius. Tesla can issue these restrictions after-the-fact.

Strange that Tesla can sell features and functions, take real money for them, put them in a written manual and yet have zero responsibility when those representations are false. If that sort of business transaction satisfies you, I have a bridge to sell you.

:-)

Bill_75D | October 26, 2017

+1 Solarfan.

BigD0g | October 26, 2017

There is a new NN in the .42 firmware called fisheye_autowiper, it could be a red herring but I seriously doubt it, but it's not wired up yet, so sooooon perhaps...

TeslaTap.com | October 26, 2017

Ok, I'm not advocation limitations on FSD, but I'm being practical. Don't shoot the messenger :) It's just like buying any car - they don't state it will not work underwater, but that doesn't mean it will run underwater.

No FSD system is going to handle snow whiteout conditions or sandstorms with 5 feet visibility. FSD will not handle driving in 100 mph hurricane winds. There are going to be a lot of limitations to FSD from every manufacturer - not just Tesla. I expect that list of exceptions will shrink over time, but to expect it to work in every condition is not realistic.

@Solarfan - I agree with your first scenario. If Tesla does not provide rain sensing, either the car must stop or the occupant must activate the wipers manually. Far from ideal, and I suspect Tesla will either figure it out or add rain sensing hardware. As to other limitations, you are right that they could make some crazy limitations, but I don't see why they would. As for the written manual, I've just looked at the latest Model S manual, and I can't find a single word about FSD. Do you have a different manual? Do you really expect FSD to work in every condition? If so, I'm sorry, but you really need to reset your expectations.

Solarfan | October 26, 2017

@TeslaTap.com | October 26, 2017,

"No FSD system is going to handle snow whiteout conditions or sandstorms with 5 feet visibility. . . . "

" . . . Do you really expect FSD to work in every condition? . . . "
..................................................................................

Again, nobody is asking for excess Full Self Driving capability. Please stop casting folks with concerns about Tesla as unreasonable.

I realized that I may NEED Full Self Driving (FSD) if I am to remain reasonably independent as I age. I do not expect FSD to work in every condition. I do expect it to work in normal rain. I was sold a $125K Model S with automatic windshield wiping that will be required for FSD. I funded FSD in advance because I believed in Tesla's stated mission and the list of deliverable features and wanted to accelerate delivery of FSD. I believed the Tesla folks who told me that Automatic Windshield wiping would be included on my car. I read the manual before delivery. (You have accepted that Tesla's unilateral change in the current manual constitutes a change in Tesla's obligation to me.)

Tesla changed rain sensing and automatic windshield wiping (required for a normal implementation of FSD) from a deliverable that I have paid for to a requested feature, without my agreement. I believe that unilateral change is at least unethical.

hjbeck | October 26, 2017

First it is not legal to charge for the option and then not deliver same. Also what is the problem with TESLA retro fitting a RAIN sensor in the car at their expense since they made the offer.

Hans

Solarfan | October 28, 2017

@TeslaTap.com | October 26, 2017,

"No FSD system is going to handle snow whiteout conditions or sandstorms with 5 feet visibility. . . . "

" . . . Do you really expect FSD to work in every condition? . . . "
..................................................................................

Again, nobody is asking for excess Full Self Driving capability. Please stop casting folks with concerns about Tesla as unreasonable.

I realized that I may NEED Full Self Driving (FSD) if I am to remain reasonably independent as I age. I do not expect FSD to work in every condition. I do expect it to work in normal rain. I was sold a $125K Model S with automatic windshield wiping that will be required for FSD. I funded FSD in advance because I believed in Tesla's stated mission and the list of deliverable features and wanted to accelerate delivery of FSD. I believed the Tesla folks who told me that Automatic Windshield wiping would be included on my car. I read the manual before delivery. (You have accepted that Tesla's unilateral change in the current manual constitutes a change in Tesla's obligation to me.)

Tesla changed rain sensing and automatic windshield wiping (required for a normal implementation of FSD) from a deliverable that I have paid for to a requested feature, without my agreement. I believe that unilateral change is at least unethical.

TeslaTap.com | October 28, 2017

I have the same concerns as you actually and have never stated owner concerns are unreasonable for FSD. Yes, rain detection is important for self-driving - I'm just stating it's a very difficult technical issue to solve. Seems you want to shoot the messenger. If auto-wiper was easy, we'd have it today.

Interestingly, Tesla does appear to be working on it. The latest software in the last week or so has some internal changes specific to wiper control. There may be hope, but it could be a while too. Since FSD is a long way off, Tesla has plenty of time to figure out a solution - either with software or a hardware retrofit.

For those concerned about paying for a feature and not getting it, the complaint has merit. Those that bought the car in the Oct-Dec 2016 have a valid concern (I'm actually in that group) as it was a specified feature. The feature was removed from the specifications in the Jan-2017 timeframe forward, it's harder to say Tesla removed a feature they paid for.

Solarfan | October 28, 2017

@TeslaTap.com | October 28, 2017,
" . . . Since FSD is a long way off, Tesla has plenty of time to figure out a solution . . . "
....................................
How then is Tesla going to perform the LA to NYC Full Self Driving demonstration in December 2017?

dknisely | October 28, 2017

@Solarfan - they aren't. :/ Not even close. But it doesn't matter. That "demo" has almost no bearing on EAP or FSD product release, and is really just a distraction for the dev teams.

I'm pretty darned sure that failing to meet the promised 5,000 M3s/week production by YE 2017 is a much bigger priority. Fortunately they need to get EAP working because disappointing several 10,000s of M3 owners when EAP still doesn't work would be a problem. But, they obviously don't care much about the piddly number of MS/MX diehard fans all that much (rightly so).

My fear as a Tesla stakeholder is that several other car makers and FSD teams have been leaping at that challenge to beat Tesla, and I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two do the LA-NY FSD demo by YE 2017 or closely thereafter.

Dramsey | October 28, 2017

"That "demo" has almost no bearing on EAP or FSD product release, and is really just a distraction for the dev teams."

And here I thought, given Musk's announcements about it, that it was to be a high-profile public demonstration of Tesla's advanced autonomous technology.

"I'm pretty darned sure that failing to meet the promised 5,000 M3s/week production by YE 2017 is a much bigger priority."

Just more of the same, like every other touted schedule he's blown past in the past 5 years.

(Yes, I'm grouchy tonight...)

Dramsey | October 28, 2017

"But, they obviously don't care much about the piddly number of MS/MX diehard fans all that much (rightly so)."

Yeah. That's kind of the impression I'm getting.

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