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40 pk upgrade

40 pk upgrade

Has anybody upgraded their model s 40 pk to 60? How many rated miles did you get. How many miles were on the car when you upgraded. Been thing about an upgrade.

lolachampcar | 29 december 2013

I have not (85s only) but what does the math look like for selling yours and picking up a 60 that someone is getting out of (to go to an 85)?

Mathew98 | 29 december 2013

@lcc - Daytrade71 can simply fork over 10k for the software upgrade to the S60. There's no need for him to go through the hassle of selling/buying like you did.

Realistically, you'll get a 50 - 70 miles upgrade going from S40 to S60. If your full charge of the S40 is at 125 miles, then the 90% charge of the S60 upgrade will give you 175 miles range.

Please note that a full range charge will give you another 10% more...

sandycraft50 | 30 december 2013

The thrust of the original comment was to find out if the degraded 40 pk 130 rated would up grade to 208 rated or what?

murraypetera | 30 december 2013

It seems you can upgrade to 85 from 60.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089183_life-with-tesla-model-s-batt...

Question would be since the 40 has a 60 battery do you have the same fee as from a 60 to 85. Vs 60 to 85 :). I doubt it...I'm sure tesla will add in the extra 10k.

The story does confirm that the limits to speed, etc. are all in software.

Brian H | 30 december 2013

No. The 60 and 85 are physically different, and support (safely) different discharge and charge rates. The 60 is not a software-limited 85.

Dwdnjck@ca | 30 december 2013

I am considering an upgrade after I get my taxes done, if I don't get bit by alt. minimum tax. I have 8200 miles,so far, and my 40 has worked out fine. I will have to use my wife's ICE for a Vegas trip from San Diego this week,however. e-class

DallasTXModelS | 30 december 2013

How much degrade do you think has happened to your 40kwh?

Dwdnjck@ca | 30 december 2013

Not enough to measure. My max charge is down to 126 from 132, but I think most of that is software switching a few miles to below zero.

mbergman | 31 december 2013

@dwdnjck - your car when delivered charged to a max of 132? And you were ok with that?

Brian H | 31 december 2013

It's a 40. 2X 132 = 264, almost exactly a full 85. Buzz off.

murraypetera | 31 december 2013

Brian h.

I have grown tired of your ignorant comments. Please follow your own comments and just go away. Your criticism and negativity is not needed here.

Dwdnjck@ca | 31 december 2013

Absolutely OK with it. I have needed to recharge during the day one time in 8000 miles and I have never run below 30 miles left.

Brian H | 1 januari 2014

murray;
KMRA

Koz | 1 januari 2014

Mbergman made that comment since most 40's started with ~145 miles rated range. I'm now at 132 after 7 months. There is another thread that discusses the subject of declining max rated range on the 40's.

jeffrey.begens | 1 januari 2014

I bought my 40 in May 2013, thinking I would use it as a second car. After two weeks, I decided I wanted to use it as my only car and sold my Porsche. I upgraded to a 60 and supercharge for $12,000.00 (as Tesla sent out a coupon of $500.00 discount if you upgraded within 30 days). My ex wanted to get points on her AMEX Platinum card so I charged the upgrade. There was no tax (Tesla would only let you charge $9,999.00 on the card).

I forgot what I originally was able to charge but now after software upgrades, it charges to 174 or 201 miles.

I thought whether I should have bought an 85 but came to realize that for me it was not needed. I have not been constrained in my travels with a 60. I live in South Florida and have access to three superchargers which are positioned perfectly.

mbergman | 1 januari 2014

Yeah, Koz, that's about what I meant, except that I was thinking of the promised rated range of 140.

BarryQ | 3 januari 2014

I now get 122 miles max.

fluxemag | 3 januari 2014

I get 125 miles, down from 145 in May. Interesting to know that upgrading would make it about 200 on range charge. As of now, the battery upgrade and enabling supercharging would be $12500 I believe. For that amount of cash I can buy plane tickets instead of road trips for the next 10 years.

mbergman | 7 januari 2014

Charged to 120 this morning, but immediately dropped to 118 when I opened the driver side door. I remember the good old days when I was able to take a 115 mile trip and have 35 rated and 40+ projected miles remaining.

Still waiting impatiently for the promised upgrade to restore some of the lost range. Emailed my service manager yesterday morning, but no response as of yet.

BarryQ | 7 januari 2014

Tell us more of this promised upgrade. It's the first I've heard of it. Please keep us updated. Thanks.

Brian H | 7 januari 2014

flux;
Ten years of TSA. The horror!

Mathew98 | 7 januari 2014

@Barryfinn - The S40 is no longer offered as an option. There are roughly 400 or so S40 in circulation. They are basically S60 with software restriction to perform like S40.

Since it is a software restriction, the S40 owners have the option to "upgrade" or unlock the full S60 capability for $10k.

Haeze | 7 januari 2014

@fluxemag
When you count renting a car at each destination, you are now down to 5 years or less.

mbergman | 7 januari 2014

@Barryfinn -

I had mentioned this in another 40kwh thread right after I received an email from my sevice manager in response to my inquiry regarding range loss. I meant "update", not "upgrade". Nothing to do with upgrade from 40kwh to 60kwh. Received 12/10 -

"Sorry for the delay on getting back to you regarding your concern. We have other customers with a similar concern. We have been communicating with our engineering team. In the next few weeks we will be launching a firmware update to help restore some of the range loss. I cannot say exactly what headquarters is going to do. The factory has not disclosed this to us at this time."

BarryQ | 7 januari 2014

Mathew98: I know this. I have one. And there are more like 800 in circulation. And it costs $11,000 not $10,000 to upgrade.

mikefa | 8 januari 2014

You will gain approx. 50 more rated miles for the upgrade. You should save your money and wait awhile before upgrading because Tesla is coming out with the 500 mile range battery soon.

sandycraft50 | 8 januari 2014

Thanks for the input of 50 miles, which I think is about right. The problem as I see it is that Tesla knows what is going on with the degraded rate, with all the roaster information of ten years. Tesla is not being TRANSPARENT about the problem. With my rate of loss of rated miles I will not be able to get out of the garage in a few years. Oh, what to do?????

sandycraft50 | 8 januari 2014

Maybe a SHORT on the stock will recover my monies, if this is a real problem.

Brian H | 9 januari 2014

Day;
Trying to jiggle the stock price a little? Sod off.

sandycraft50 | 9 januari 2014

To Brian You are a real problem on this thread, don't you have something better to do. Be constructive or shut up.

Veronika | 9 januari 2014

Three things;
1 - I have a 40 and had 142 miles at full charge when I received delivery last may. I will charge tonight to see what the max is now and come back.
2 - Could someone provide the link to the "declining max rated range on the 40's" discussion forum? I looked for it, but could not seem to find it. I thank you very much in advance.
3 - I am happy to ignore posts that are disruptive, albeit annoying when discussion get so long with irrelevance. Would making the discussion private help at all?

mbergman | 9 januari 2014

@Veronika -

See -
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/forty-pack-40kwh-charge-loss-aft...

Personally, I am very much opposed to making threads like these private, as I think it is important for prospective purchasers to be aware of current owners' problems and concerns.

I started ignoring the meaningless, ignorant, irrelevant and/or intentionally abusive drivel posted by Brian H. almost a year ago and would suggest others do the same. It is really pretty easy.

mbergman | 9 januari 2014

Received this afternoon from my service manager -

"I have been talking with one of our engineers. He is telling me the next firmware update should help improve the range of your battery pack. They have changed a lot of the calculations/algorithms and the number you will see on the instrument cluster will be higher after a full charge... The launch of the new firmware should in 2 to 3 weeks from now... the source I have works directly on the firmware team."

OK, everybody, keep your fingers crossed.

gonzalo.stabile | 9 januari 2014

The only thing I can add is that my service manager hinted that they moved 10mi of range below zero. So while driving to LA doing roughly 80mph I ran it to zero and kept on going for 9 miles, no issues, so I suspect that this may be part of the range discrepancy, the other being the algorithm that re-adjusts range based on specific energy used Wh/mi.

SCCRENDO | 9 januari 2014

Not sure how reliable my info is and I have posted this before. When I took my 85S in for a routine tire rotation I was shooting the breeze with Mike the service manager in Costa Mesa. He told me that the only people who really understand the battery are up in Fremont where all the logs get looked at. He suggested to me that Model S battery is a 480V battery and over time the battery can drop until it hits 360V and then it dies. This is where I think the warranty info comes from that suggest once we get down to 70 % you get a new battery if under warranty. So it seems like an all or nothing. The equivalent figures for the roadster are 240V and 120V.By the way the roadster has an excellent track record. The rated range we see on our cars are just calculations based on the voltage and state of charge. And what you see depends on the fudge factor they are employing at any particular time. There have been some elegant calculations made on this forum and just when we thought we had it down pat they changed the algorithm on us. So I suspect if they say the battery is ok it probably is.

sandycraft50 | 10 januari 2014

My fingers are crossed, I lost another mile on rated miles, now down to 129 from 142 about 9% in 7 months. 300kwh/mi

MS-P519-OH | 24 januari 2014

I think I found the right thread. I committed to buying my MS way back in 2009 when Tesla announced that they were taking orders. Well back then it was advertised the 40 kwh as getting 160 mile range and for what I normally do and go that would be fine. Was not thinking of taking cross country trips. So here I am an early supporter of Tesla and a firm believer in alternative energy.

Well about 4 1/2 yrs later I get my MS. Comes with a 60kw battery instead of the 40 that I ordered but limited. Now informed that you should not fully charge your battery as a norm (only 80%). So now from this announcement, well you do not have 160 mile range. I still believe in the movement to get off oil so I will live with and limit my travels. Well again from the time I took delivery and the full charge was 165 miles now software updates down to 145 and not making that. Yesterday I went to the Macedonia Ribbon Cutting for the Supper Charger opening in Ohio. Only about 26 mile straight down Rt 82 for me but because of the weather and road conditions I took the Turn Pike which only added about 5 miles to the trip. Trip back I went straight down 82 for the 26 miles link. Total 30+26 = 56 miles. Getting close to home I only have only 26 mile and getting worried. And by the way I use the seat heaters and limited the heaters but windows were being a problem and had a hard time keeping things clear. Much more baby sitting then you should have to do but I did and lucky the wife was not with me.

Well my wife tells me that I give too many details and I need to get to the point.

Point is. My base price for the 40kwh was $57,400 and currently base price for entry level 60kwh is $62,400 a $5,000 difference and by the way the battery pack I have is the -A version and is not capable of doing the max charge at Supper Chargers. Not a big deal but why the premium?

So I email in and also call and questioned, base price my car and base price minimum now. $5000 difference and I have the limited -A battery. I am told that unlocking will cost $11,000 + tax. Battery is there even though not the current charging rate and limited. $5,000 - $11,000 what is up with it? I would even upgrade to Supper Charging.

I really believe in the EV movement and I know there are a lot of you people that just want to have the latest to show and talk about.

Tesla give me a call and lets talk.

What do you think, Doug H don't reply!

AmpedRealtor | 25 januari 2014

I don't believe you are comparing the right prices. You are comparing $57,400 before tax credit for your 40 kWh model to today's 60 kWh model after tax credit. Today's comparable price for an S60 is over $70,000. At the time you purchased your S40, an S60 cost $10,000 more. Today an S60 would cost you more than $13,000 more than your S40 due to price increases, etc.

MS-P519-OH | 25 januari 2014

I stand corrected. Thanks AmpedRealtor. I didn't see that little note in fine print. I am much better doing the upgrade now and will also get the Supercharge option for the additional $2500. I wanted to go on the “All Superchargers Lead to DC” road trip next month.

Thanks

Koz | 25 januari 2014

The current iteration of firmware appears to be pretty accurate at calculating rated range. I do believe about 6 miles of our 40's rated range loss on a full charge has gone into the below zero buffer. The rest is actual loss as far as I can tell but I don't think the battery is actually degrading. I believe it is due to the lower charge limit, balancing, and algorithm shortcomings. The batteries are likely fine but I don't know how they can solve the balancing issue unless charging the charging algorithms to trickle charge as they approach what is a "full charge" for our 40s. It's possible they only limited the upper charge limit and didn't reengineer the charging algorithms when they put the 40s out. Hopefully this is what they are working on now and not just shuffle the numbers around without restoring the lost capacity.

ramtaz | 25 januari 2014

May 29,2013 TESLA Model S delivered with 147 rated range.
Today , rated range is 126-128 , Still plenty for local driving
and commuting to work.
There is only standard charge available on limited 60 kWh battery.

sandycraft50 | 27 januari 2014

The question I posed at the beginning of this thread, was has anybody upgraded their 40 pack to 60 and how many rated miles did you get 208????? or something else?

fluxemag | 27 januari 2014

I've thought about upgrading recently, because there are two trips I'd like to make in a new city that aren't possible with the new and not improved 125 mile range. Portland to Mt. Hood ski resort and back is a few miles too far, plus cold weather. If I upgraded I would have no problem, and I really would love to cruise up there with four people and skis on the roof with the new roof rack. Picture me taking a last run down the mountain and firing up the heat in the car... but then I remember it's not worth 11k dollars. Let's hope the next firmware gets me closer to 145 miles.

But the question is, is it really $11k? When you upgrade, you're also instantly upgrading the resale value of the car. But probably only by ~5k, maybe more. I'd also like to hear what someone gets for rated range post upgrade.

Dwdnjck@ca | 27 januari 2014

I intend to upgrade after doing my taxes, provided the alt min tax doesn't eat my $7500 credit. I had to drive my wife's E-class from San Diego to Las Vegas. I really missed my S.

sandycraft50 | 28 januari 2014

Dwdnjck> Let us know when you upgrade. Thanks

Brian10 | 16 april 2014

So, does anyone know of a 40kWh owner who has coughed up the full fair to upgrade?

Tâm | 16 april 2014

@Daytrade71

I am not sure whether I am of any help since I don't have 40 kWh pack.

1) Any one yet?

I haven't heard any yet. Tesla should know.

2) Paid Upgraded Rated miles?

EPA rated miles is 208 for a brand new 60 kWh pack but since you've been driving that same pack, I expect some degradation.

I would expect less than 208 rated miles after you pay up for the software upgrade.

If you want 208 rated miles, you might need to physically swap your battery to a new or refurbished one.

3) Thinking:

There are some considerations:

RANGE:

a) You may experience this already: Many owners were caught off guard because they now want to drive a lot more than they used to with their ICE.

There's an owner who thought he would fly for his new job but drove his Model S from Maryland to California instead.
Some never dreamed of driving coast-to-coast until the Model S.

b) 40 kWh is meant to be local, non-supercharger capable only. That works perfectly fine for many people. Much better than a Leaf even.

c) 60 kWh is for those with tight budget and can still drive out of town with Supercharger but not as convenient as 85 kWh.

d) 85 kWh for those who don't want the some restrictions of 60 kWh and want to be independent from oil (no ICE in the household.)

e) >85 kWh : awaiting for future higher capacity because real life range is not 300 ideal or 265 rated.

COST:

A 60 kWh pack is guaranteed for 8 years or 125,000 miles while the biggest pack is 8 years with unlimited miles.

That means, with your upgrade, 125,000 / 8 would be 15,625 miles per year. That sounds reasonable for an ICE, but for a Model S, that may be too few miles for many owners!

Look! I never thought I would ever drive more than 9,000 miles annually based on my Prius habit. I was wrong: 36,000 miles in 15 months!

In conclusion:

So, what am I rambling all this nonsense for?

1) If you drive a lot, call Tesla, do a trade in to get 85 kWh pack. It's worth losing money because of the trade-in but it pays off in the long run of 8 years with unlimited miles (and make sure you pre-pay service plans and extended warranty too.)

2) If you can't afford a trade-in and able to do an upgrade, make sure the new rated miles should be 208 miles or 230 ideal miles. If not, make sure Tesla would physically swap it to make it happen.

Good luck!

brett.padgett | 17 april 2014

@Brian10: yes, I was told by Tesla a few months ago that there have been many people who have unlocked their 40s at full price. At the time, that was one of their reasons why they couldn't/wouldn't reduce the upgrade cost.

Brian10 | 17 april 2014

@Longhorn92, that makes sense. I was told by Tesla that they've not reduced the price to upgrade because it would upset those who purchased a 60kWH. I've always found this to be an empty argument. After enjoying their 60's for a year, I very much doubt any 60 owner would kick up any dust over a reduced upgrade price for us 40's. However, I do see how it would upset the 40's who did pay full price to upgrade. There is a simple solution. Offer a partial refund those 40 owners who paid full price. This would easily be offset by the "free" revenue Tesla will generate by lowering the upgrade price for the rest of us 40's. BTW, I agree with your comments on the other thread. The upgrade price would have to be significantly lower to offset the degradation in my battery and year loss of use of the additional range.

jjaeger | 18 april 2014

They will not change this policy for many years. Nothing empty about the argument - just plain fair & right.

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