When will we get UK deliveries?

When will we get UK deliveries?

I compiled a posting on this topic already and when I tried to post it the site crashed.
I have been given the run around about the date of delivery, being told first April 2014, then May 2014 when I designed the car, then recently when I checked again that date had slipped to June, but I was assured there would be no further delays, and I insisted that I should be given notice of any if they should occur.
Now when I check MyTesla I see that the delivery date has been put back to august, without any communication with me, or explanation.
Sadly I have already sold my much loved Ampera because Tesla don't take trade-ins, and I am driving an old wreck.
This is very poor customer service, and I am beginning to lose my enthusiasm for this product.
I don't like being treated like a mushroom.
Audoen Healy

bevguy | 21 april 2014

I hope you get yours soon. Tesla is probably constrained by manpower needed to design in the steering wheel on the "wrong" ;-) side . Likely they will batch manufacture them. And I doubt if they wanted to slow down the line near the end of a quarter.

But hang in there , it will be worth the wait.

dborn | 21 april 2014

Australian pricing was due out end March. Then slipped 2 weeks. Then Jerome himself gave assurances of " before the end of next week" then that slipped again to " in a week or so" . Since we can't even place an order without pricing, this is very poor form. None of these dates were given to us, we had to actually ask. Bad bad communication!
We understand here that these delays won't delay deliveries. We expect ours late July Early August, so it seems that at least the first batch of right hand drive cars will be going out as a batch. There is a single RHD car in Australia, though none of us has seen it. It is here for regulatory testing and will become the demonstrator, late next month. I hear that a total of 5 RHD cars currently exist in the world. Probably all for the same reason.
Poor poor form with lack of transparency or communication to long standing reservation holders.

SamO | 21 april 2014

Welcome to a big tasty helping of what the US has had for 2 the last two years.

Pungoteague_Dave | 21 april 2014

The problem is they don't know and don't want to disappoint. Tesla is learning logistics on the fly. Great engineering, still figuring out the business model. TM probably shouldn't set any expectations on dates - just say "when it is ready" like a vintner.

Witness all the hullabaloo about expectations for the return of lowered suspension. Missed an estimated date by two months and you'd think they were Charles Manson - threatened lawsuits, constant badgering and whining on this forum. Now that it's here most of those forum "participants" have slunk away, but they will eventually find something else to yell about.

david.baird | 21 april 2014

On the other hand, look on the bright side - you've a Supercharger under construction on the M25 and they don't even sell the cars in your country yet! Over on the continent we've the cars and no Supercharger network...

But really, keep faith, it's worth the wait. The car is phenomenal...

TeslaLandShark | 21 april 2014

I feel your frustration. I have never heard the phrase "I don't like being treated like a mushroom". Is that a common phrase in the UK? I like it!

david.baird | 21 april 2014

Google Translate: "I don't like being treated like a mushroom"" = "Kept in the dark and fed on shit".

Welcome to the wonderful world of Tesla!

mgboyes | 21 april 2014

@Audoen please check with Tesla about your date. Lots of UK reservation holders have been reporting that their dashboard suddenly says August but some have been told this is a bug and that their original delivery date is still valid.

For comparison I confirmed my car on 17 Feb this year, was told late June to early July at that time, and am still being told the same thing now.

When did you reserve? Do you have a VIN yet? Do you have coil springs (there is apparently a 4 week delay on non-air cars and TM have been calling people to ask if they'd rather upgrade to air or wait)? | 21 april 2014

@SamO - You only had to wait 2 years? My wait was just under 4 years, and I even opted for the air suspension to get it earlier :)

While clearly Tesla could do a better job of informing you of delays, often these are caused by items outside Tesla's control. Have you ever worked with your Government? Cars are subject to all sort of regulations and approvals that are totally outside Tesla's control. Tesla can provide a best guess on how long these tasks will take, but they may reject something minor, requiring a new submission and adding even more time to an unpredictable process.

All I can say is the car will be ready when it's ready, and it's really worth the wait.

thranx | 21 april 2014

I have always felt, from the time I first contemplated ordering and based on everything I read on the forums, that Tesla should automatically add four months (minimum) to their promised delivery time. That way no one is disappointed when their car shows up on time, and if you get a message that your car well be ready two or three months earlier than expected, joy would know no bounds.

Basic psychology...and good business.

Out4aDuck | 21 april 2014

Can anyone from Hong Kong offer an opinion?

Audoen | 21 april 2014

Thank you all for the replies.
I ordered mine ŵay back over a year ago, and completed the design phase as soon as we had UK pricing.
I am taking the air suspension option.
I hope you are right that the August date on the site is a glitch, or a "default option" for new buyers.
I promised my son that I would use it to pick him up on his last ever day at his boarding school (Eton) in early July, so he could show off in front of all the rich kids and their moms in their Range Rover Vogues, Aston Martins and Maseratis..
Some things in life are just priceless, and the opportunity won't come around again.
So come on Elon, give me my car !

Captain_Zap | 21 april 2014

The wait is painful and the unexpected delays are torment. We were there too. At least you are getting early notice about delays.

It was worth it. I never believed anyone that said that while I was waiting, but I found it to be true within days of delivery.

Audoen | 21 april 2014

One of my business interests is a small aviation company, so I am used to delays in delivery.
It is always better to get a late peach than an early lemon. It just helps to be kept informed.
Yesterday my girlfriend and I flew one of my aircraft, a Diamond DA 42 twin-star, down to Bournemouth from High Wycombe for engineering. This took 20 minutes.
We had decided to take taxis and trains home, as they need the aircraft for three days.
Two taxis, three trains, a bus due to engineering on the train line, £190 ($300) in fares and six hours later we got home.
If she had driven the 100 mile trip in the Tesla, both ways, we wouldn't have needed a recharge, she would have completed each leg in 80 minutes (assuming she stuck to the limit) and the cost woukd have been about £5 because we charge overnight at low tariff.
The Tesla will be bloody amazing in a small, crowded island like Britain, where the range will cover all but the longest journeys.
So (throwing all my toys out of the pram), Elon, give me my car !

shop | 21 april 2014

I've been following a UK charging thread in another forum. Are you foks still expected to install your own charging station in your home? I think Tesla is now only supplying UK owners with a Type 2 to Type 2 cable only...

Audoen | 21 april 2014

I already have an Ampera(UK Chevvy Volt) Voltec 32Amp charger installed.
I am not sure whether it can be adapted to the Tesla.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

If it uses a J1772 plug, it should work. A quick review of a couple UK forums shows me that you have a couple of different plugs. For some reason, a lot of people over on your side of the pond think a J1772 can't handle 32A or (Level 2) charging. It most certainly can. Over here, there are a few 70Amp J1772 charging stations, and I've used one in Santa Barbara.

My guess is that Tesla will create a charge port and adapters for the most common configurations in the UK before they ship them.

This, among other things, is part of why it takes time to roll out in a new country.

If all you guys would just start using proper electrical plugs, like we do here in the US, then this wouldn't be an issue.


TFMethane | 22 april 2014

Oh, regarding home charging stations:

Check you home electrical system. I know you have 220-240V systems over there. Do you have specific appliances (like a clothes dryer) that has a dedicated, different plug to allow higher currents?

Here in the US, most homeowners have a single separate plug that combines two 110V supplies to make 220V. These plugs combine 15Ax2 to make 220V, 30 AMPs. Some newer homes even have 220V, 50AMP circuits.

These higher current plugs are in nearly every home in the US already. I have a 220V, 30 Amp, and it's all I've used to charge for the 13 months I've owned the car. It charges at about 12mph (about 12 hours from dead to full, but my average charge time is about 2.5 hours with my daily driving.)

I actually own a HPWC (in-home charging station), but I never installed it, because the dryer plug is more than adequate.

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

@Audeon if you ordered a year ago and have air I am confident it's a glitch. Contact your sales adviser or the general customer service number and get them to confirm for you.

UK charging is a hot topic at the moment. For years TM have been telling people to install 32A Commando sockets which can then be used with the UK UMC (a 32A commando is roughly equivalent to a US NEMA 14-50 in the sense that it's fairly easily installed in a home and provides about 2.5x the power of a standard outlet).

More recently there have been government grants that mean you can get a 7kW Type 2 EVSE (home charging station) installed for just £95, including a tethered Type 2 cable. This is what Tesla are now recommending everyone do in the UK, since it's by far the cheapest option and means less concern for TM about dodgy installations, sub-par wiring etc.

However in the last week they've announced that they are not supplying a UMC at all in the UK (it's not even that it's optional; you simply will not be able to buy one), and will instead be supplying a Type 2 cable with the car. The reasons behind this are not yet clear. Certainly quite a few people are a bit upset (because they'd installed Commando sockets following TM advice).

I would say the HPWC may never come to the UK at all. For 99% of UK homes, getting a supply where more than 32A can be dedicated to EV charging will be very expensive (many thousands of pounds), whereas a 32A charge point is practically free (£95 because of the grant). And for the 1% who can get 3 phase supply there are 22kW EVSE products on the market that will use the same standard Type 2 socket and which will probably be cheaper than an HPWC anyway.

Audoen | 22 april 2014

TFMethane, you are " sizeist".
You must be from Texas ;)
I wouldn't swap my 220V supply for a wimpish 120v USA system.
Why are you Americans all so scared of a little bit of electricity?
I already have three phase installed, so it looks as if I am well set up regardless.
I contacted Tesla this morning and my car is on line to be finished at Freemont on 28th of this month, and then it takes 8 weeks to crate, transport across the atlantic, assemble and deliver to me, on schedule before end of June.
They are going to look into the glitch on the website that got me so upset.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

I doubt that EVERYONE can get a 7KW station installed for 95 of those things (you know, those things with the frilly symbol that isn't on my keyboard and is apparently some medium of exchange).

At my house, the breaker box is on the opposite corner of my house from the garage. That means I would have to shell out about $1800 (that's greenbacks... hard money) to run conduit around my house and either underground or through my attic.

I doubt that your government is offering to cover all of the site-specific expenses (if they are, I'm moving to foggy London-town and changing my name to Harry Brazletonshirewood, what what?).

Don't forget about people who live in rental units where the lord of the manor might not be on board with new installations.

And don't forget about charging at a destination... you often need to pump in just a few electrons overnight at your jolly good chum's house so the vampire drain doesn't leave you stranded by the time he knocks you up in the morning.

It seems they have to offer a UMC. If they don't, you can at least buy a HPWC from Tesla for $1K and install it over the Nema 14-50 that you've already put in place. The HPWC can accept the 50 Amp input, but it obviously will only charge at 50 amps, not 80, which is it's design limit.

Audoen | 22 april 2014

Three phase 240v gives you 450v apparently, though I'm not quite sure how.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

It's a trivial thing to install a HPWC over an existing Nema 14-50 outlet. Maybe people in that situation should demand a free HPWC.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

By the way, I'm almost certain you can hook a HPWC up to your 32 Amp system. It can accept a variety of voltages and currents... it has some kind of manual selection.

Only problem I see is that it takes 60Hz AC. Isn't the UK on 50Hz? I'm not sure how the electronics in HPWC will handle this.

If you want to buy mine to experiment, I'll sell it at cost plus shipping. It weighs about 2kg and is approximately 500x200x20cm, plus an additional plastic hanger. Of course, we don't use metric over here, so I could be WAY off in those estimates. You should add in a fudge-factor of about 500%.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

You could also maybe buy one from Norway. I hear that they are supporting 3-phase there (check and search the old threads for 3-phase... I don't remember the details)

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

BTW, your "commando" 32A would be closer to a US Nema 10-30, which is what I have in my garage. Except apparently your outlets don't wear any underwear.

(Americans will get that joke)

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

@TFMethane TM have confirmed that there is no UK UMC. I agree it seems a strange decision, but it is a done deal. I am sure people will get hold of portable EVSEs (which is what the UMC effectively is) for themselves, either by ordering from Europe, or buying from other suppliers, but Tesla won't be selling them in the UK. I will want one for the reasons you mention, including charging at friends' houses.

The 7kW Chargemaster EVSE is provided by a £1000 grant from the government so you're getting £1095 ($1840) worth of stuff for your £95. The installation includes (IIRC) up to 45m of cabling from your consumer unit, trunking, new RCD and breakers, professional installation etc. Of course there are situations that this won't cover, but in that case you can just pay the extra cost, and it will still be cheaper than putting in an unsubsidised 32A commando socket in the same location.

People who live in rental units where the freeholder won't permit a 7kW EVSE probably also couldn't have had a 32A Commando installed either, and shouldn't have ordered a Model S if they can't charge it!

A 32A commando is not directly equivalent to a NEMA 14-50 - I was just trying to illustrate what it represents (special kind of domestic socket found usually only in garages/workshops, higher power than normal outlet).

Mains electricity supply in the UK comes in 2 flavours: Single Phase 230V at up to 100A, or Three Phase 230V at 100A+ per phase. Three Phase supply has 3 230V feeds, each 120 degrees out of phase with each other. It's referred to as a 415V service because while all 3 phases are 230V relative to the neutral wire, they're each 415V relative to each other, so the maximum electric shock risk occurs if you bridge two of the phases. But for practical purposes a 3 phase supply is best thought of as simple three normal supplies, so it can deliver three times the power.

Anyway in the UK you cannot get a single phase service to your house larger than 100A, which in turn (allowing for the needs of electric cookers, power showers, storage heaters, etc) means that you can't realistically dedicate more than a 32A circuit to your EV charger. In fact there are IET regulations that require special consent from the utility company before you can do it. So if you have a single phase supply 32A is as high as you're going to get and a HPWC is a bit of a waste of time, since the chargemaster EVSE is £95 and does exactly the same thing.

If you already have a 3 phase service then you can draw 32A from each of the three phases, which gets you 22kW, maxing out your dual chargers. A HPWC would be useful in that case, but you could equally buy a 3 phase EVSE for about £800 which is probably less than Tesla would charge. And we're only talking about the 1% of the population who have 3 phase anyway.

Anyway quick summary:
1. Tesla are not supplying the UMC in the UK. This is annoying, and some people will have to make alternative plans, especially for charging when visiting friends, relatives, etc.
2. Tesla are recommending that people pay £95 to install the subsidised Chargemaster 7KW EVSE in their homes where possible, which is generally good advice. This will mean 14h to fully range charge an 85 which is probably fast enough for almost everyone.
3. Single-phase current limits for EV charging mean that the HPWC will only be useful in the UK for people who have 3 phase supply, and they can buy themselves a third party Type 2 22kW EVSE for £800 anyway. So I predict there will never actually be a UK HPWC since it's not clear there's really a market for it.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

freeholder? Is that what you call a landlord over there? I just looked it up... it's the opposite of a vassal. Nice. I love how you guys still have all that feudal stuff technically on the books.

Anyway, I know how 3-phase works (thanks for the refresher, though). Once upon a time, I was an engineer. My issue is that your AC frequency is 50Hz, not 60Hz. When I travel to Europe and take my electric shaver, all it does is hum at a lower frequency and snag my hairs a bit more. When you plug sensitive electronics in, it really depends on the tolerances they designed in.

Anyway, since you say that you can buy a portable EVSE over there, you're set. I've never heard of any such animal making it over to this side of the pond.

Perhaps a swallow could grip one by the husk...

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

@mgb Is your handle "MGB oh yes!" Just wondering. I have a rusting MGB in my backyard that used to run...

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

@TFMethane well I guess that would depend on the type of swallow.

The on-board charger specs say they will take 85-265V, 45-65Hz so they're quite tolerant. But a EU/UK Model S has a completely different charge socket to the US car so a US HPWC won't plug in.

In turn that explains the portable EVSE thing - in the US the Model S has a proprietary socket on it that is specific only to Tesla, hence the UMC is critically important because. In the EU/UK the car has a standard Type 2 charging socket so there are third party options available, and lots of public charging stations can be used without any cable at all because they have a tethered Type 2 cable built in.

Landlord / freeholder - both terms are in fairly common use. They don't mean exactly the same thing but near enough for these purposes.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

Thanks for the clarification. I looked up those Type 2 plugs. They're not as sexy as the US Tesla plugs. Are they compatible with supercharging, or do you have a second port for that? This is really off topic, but it's related, because if you have to have two plugs, then that's a whole redesign of body panels and reflector/light packages.

I understand why it took a while to move into the UK market.

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

derp. ...critically important because third party kit is never going to have a Tesla plug on it.

TFMethane | 22 april 2014

By supercharging, I mean DC fast charging - like Chademo.

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

Excellent question. In fact, the socket on a EU/UK Model S is not a Type 2 socket, but it is compatible with a Type 2 plug (i.e. you can plug any Type 2 kit into it).

However I think it can accommodate deeper/longer/fatter pins, so that when it meets a Supercharger, which is equipped with a Tesla-specific extra-deep/fat-pinned plug it can handle the 400A DC.

There's just the one charge port, in the same location as US cars, though the larger connector means that there's no room for the LED lighting around the socket; the charging lights are to the right of the charge door.

Looks like this:

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

I think people in Europe who have their cars have been through a bit of a trial regarding charging (just as early owners in the US went through all sorts of trials about all sorts of things!) because the different standards and restrictions have caused all sorts of grief. European cars are currently restricted by firmware to lower charging rates due to some hardware issues I believe.

So on the one hand it's frustrating that the UK is still waiting for cars, but on the other hand I think we'll get the benefits of what has been learned from Europe.

I've just noticed (when going to get that picture) that the charging page on the Tesla UK website has vanished - they are obviously rewriting it...

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

@Audoen if you already have 3 phase then a) I am jealous and b) get yourself a!/~/product/category=9061310&id=3542... (and an electrician to fit it).

Audoen | 22 april 2014

Maybe it's the sensitivity of your own parts that's more of a concern than the electronics, especially if you are "snagging them".
What exactly are you shaving?
Seriously though, I'm a bit if a novice for all these three and four letter acronyms.
What is a UMC?
Is this equivalent to the standard plugged charging cable I had on my Ampera (Chevvy Volt) that I could plug straight into any mains 13a socket?
What is a EVSE?
What is HPWC?

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

UMC = Universal Mobile Connector. So far, supplied by Tesla with each Model S. Smart cable that enables you to plug the car into a variety of sockets in your local country. Surprisingly, not being supplied in the UK (so for example Tesla will not sell you anything that lets you plug a Model S into a plain old 13A socket).

EVSE = Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment = slightly intelligent charger. The Tesla UMC is an EVSE (rather than just being a cable it has smart electronics in it; it communicates with the car etc). You cannot charge a Model S without an EVSE - there's no way to just run a dumb cable from a mains socket into it.

HPWC = High Powered Wall Connector = Tesla's permanent EVSE designed to be installed in garages. Very useful in the US where they let you charge at much higher rates than through the UMC. Not available in the UK yet.

lolachampcar | 22 april 2014

Apparently AFTER China.

hsadler | 22 april 2014

Just a curiousity...
Will MS's (British versions) be able to readily charge if they take a trip across the Channel - and vice versa?

Second - anyone do a tour of the factory lately and spy a RHD Tesla?

mgboyes | 22 april 2014

@hsadler yes and yes.

EU and UK cars have the same charging sockets (and they're even on the same side of the car). The one fly in the ointment is that the French seem determined to install chargers using Type 3 sockets (which are weird ugly things) so UK owners will probably need to buy a Type 2 to Type 3 cable.

And yes, one RHD Model S has been spied in the factory car park, and another in the UK (a development prototype that's currently touring around testing out charging point compatibility).

shop | 22 april 2014

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good portable EVSE that would allow charging through 13A sockets? And commando plugs too.

Mathew98 | 22 april 2014

Will the commando plugs hurt if I go commando?

Brian H | 22 april 2014

Only if you try to connect to them.