Why all the hate?

Why all the hate?

I have been watching the game patiently. I finally bit the bullet when I saw the model X door opening for Elon and reserved my model X.
I spend at least 30 mins every day reading up articles about Tesla. All I get to read now-a-days is about Telsa being downgraded because not many people can afford the car. We all know that Model 3 will be out eventually.
is this a case of "Neighbor's envy, owner's pride"?
Why all the hate?

Son of a Gunn | 10 oktober 2015

Because we're all dicks with self-interest and want to be right. Maybe the testosterone. Maybe money-related. Internet forums are echo chambers for the vocal minority. The gentle souls are happy doing the gentle living, probably cruising in their Model S, hugging the spouse, and walking the dog, instead of mucking about here like you and me.

Son of a Gunn | 10 oktober 2015

I take back some of the above. There are some really good membets here, with words of wisdom. It's just in internet forums it mixes all kinds of characters that you wouldn't even want in your barbecue. It's in any car forum.

carlk | 10 oktober 2015

Thare are many reasons but I would say jealousy is the biggest one. Some people just hate to see others have something they don't have or succeed that they could not. I don't have problem with people having different opinions, and people do have different opinions, but the hatred we see like you pointed out is something else.

Chunky Jr. | 10 oktober 2015

To me, a lot of people that hate on Tesla are similar to people who hate on Apple. Overpriced toys for the rich the detractors say. Great products and great companies the enthusiasts say. Personally, I'm a big fan of them both (I used to work at Apple and have followed them closely since the early 80s, and I love my P85).

Plus there is the whole political side of it. Some people have issues with Tesla for one reason or another, and make unflattering assumptions about the owners.

I don't see how anyone can be against Tesla. An American car company that is building an amazing car, creating American jobs, and innovating in a way that shaking up the industry. How can someone not be proud of that? Would they rather have them fail and let another country dominate the EV industry?

Ankit Mishra | 10 oktober 2015

I dislike Apple and I love Tesla very much.

carlk | 10 oktober 2015

@Chunky Jr.

I don't see how anyone can be against Tesla. An American car company that is building an amazing car, creating American jobs, and innovating in a way that shaking up the industry. How can someone not be proud of that? Would they rather have them fail and let another country dominate the EV industry?

I always wonder about that too. The haters really want everyone to buy German, Japanese or one day perhaps even Chinese cars? They think they could, or want to, find a job that pays decent salary over there?

Gert van Veen | 10 oktober 2015

There are good reasons to hate tesla.
10% of the jobs are depending on the automotive industry. EV’s are simpler and cheaper, a lot of jobs wil disappear.
10% of the jobs are depending on oil for transport purposes. With the decreasing costs of green power and batteries those will disappear.
Volkswagen said for years that driving a car without causing cancer is not possible. Tesla proofs that VW is wrong.
Lots of people said EV’s wil never work, if EV’s works they will be proven, wrong. And people don’t like it to be wrong.

madodel | 10 oktober 2015

Tesla has powerful enemies who will have no qualms about spreading FUD. I would not be surprised to find some of their minions in these forums. They definitely are on other forums and have a group of bloggers who will write all kinds of lies to denigrate Tesla. That said there are some people who don't understand that many of us are for the most part not the market the Model X was designed for. It is obviously aimed at woman, families with small children and the China market. I was disappointed at there not being folding second row seats, but after some thought I figured I can live without it. I was upset that the Signature was going to cost me an additional $20,000 for the P version I really have no need for, but what the hell, at least Ludicrous was an option I didn't have to pay for. Some people just can't get over any of this. Others who are bloviating about the Falcon Wing doors are beyond my comprehension. Those doors have been part of this product since the beginning and are not going to be abandoned after all the work that went into perfecting them. People can protest, it is their right. For me, I have placed my order and will hopefully love the car I finally get. I am looking forward to it. Just taking forever as all good things do.

My Signature Model X P90D, Signature Red Multi-Coat Paint, 20" Silver Wheels, Ultra White Seats, Dark Ash Wood Décor, Black Alcantara Headliner, Six Seat Interior, Subzero Weather Package, Tow Package.

rossRallen | 10 oktober 2015

Here is Tesla: designing and building cars in California; hiring Americans to build them and paying them a good wage; turning an abandoned Toyota/GM factory into a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility; leading innovation in every area of vehicle design, performance, and manufacture; and serving as a model for good old-fashioned American can-do. Oh, yeah: and there's the Gigafactory to make automotive and stationary power batteries in the US and to bring down their cost so Tesla's 4th generation, affordable EVs are possible; and the US Government loans that Tesla paid back early. Every one of these is a reason why Tesla is my largest stock holding and my favorite company.

Nobody's perfect: there is non-linear Tesla-time, where product launches slip months and years, and the almost total information blackout on the X that unnecessarily frustrated long-term reservation holders.

Then there are the haters,and they have a lot of money at stake in old-tech: the oil interests (who suck every possible dollar out of the government in subsidies and the drill-baby-drill morons who would leave nothing pristine); the stock manipulators (those so-called stock analysts who write outrageous anti-Tesla headlines in the financial news to stir up FUD); and the ignoratti who say Tesla is threatened by Porsche, Mercedes, VW, and other EV vaporware (they don't know whether are talking about, by the time these companies produce an EV, Tesla will still be 5 years ahead of them and selling affordable vehicles that will blow their non-Falcon Wind doors off).

Tesla is the victim of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome", where anyone or anything that stands above the rabble gets mowed down because of envy and greed.

Don't listen to the losers who've accomplished nothing in their lives who are obsessing about you.

NumberOne | 10 oktober 2015

Everyone knows there are many outside of the forum who are Tesla haters. I think (my opinion) stock analysts who hate or short do so because they missed out on getting in early on. Others hate because they know little about electric cars. Ignorance is often the source of hatred. This applies to jobs too. Tesla hires ASE Certified Technicians for their service centers. True, they need less service, but things can still wear out. I had a major repair on my truck last week. The lower steering rod was binding an had to be replaced. While this is not a common problem on any car, I cannot see how it is impossible to happen on a Tesla. The brakes will last much longer an oil changes will be a thing of the past, but there are still a few other things that could wear out.

Now as far as the attacks on this forum. That seems very personal, angry and hate filled. We all have a right to our opinions, and if you disagree, you are welcome to post your opinion too, but is it really necessary to take a persons statement and rip it apart point by point, despite not actually being able to prove their own statements either. Is there a point to that? Winner takes all?

I read and post to this forum because I am exited about getting my car, and want to share the excitement of other people waiting to get theirs.

Red Sage ca us | 10 oktober 2015

Some people were taught early in life to give up their dreams and focus on reality, concrete notions that were proven effective. People who have been forced into such a mindset tend to object to the actions taken by anyone who avoids or rejects such indoctrination. Misery loves company, and stuff.

vandacca | 10 oktober 2015

While there may be a couple of trolls on this Tesla forum from time to time, spewing anti-EV rhetoric, but I don't believe that explains the "hate" people are seeing.

It is my observation that this "hate" only started a month or two ago, right around the time Signature holders began to configure their cars and new information began to leak out.

In my opinion, more than 98% of the people on the Model-X forum are Tesla fans. Prior to August 2015, I think we all got along just fine with the expectations of the Model-X based on the 2012 reveal.

However, once information began to leak out and changes began to be known, people fell into one of two camps:

(a) Happy Camp A - these are people that want to be fine with the changes because they can't bare to wait any longer for their Model-X. However, they take offense to people complaining about Tesla's choices because they don't want anything to detract them from their dreams and possibly taint their image of their highly desired vehicle. Perhaps they don't want people to focus on the negative aspects of the Model-X, which could potentially shatter their image of this vehicle. Perhaps they take it as a personal insult if someone criticizes a vehicle they intend to buy. Perhaps they fear that the negativity will further jeopardize or delay them getting their car. Whatever the reason(s), these people will militantly defend Tesla to their death.

(b) Disappointed Camp B - these are people that had their dreams of a perfect SUV crushed because of last-minute choices Tesla made, and they are very upset. They have trouble understanding why Tesla would desert their demographic, when they got so close to building them the perfect SUV. To them, there doesn't seem to be any logical reason for these choices. They feel like Tesla abandoned and turned their back on them. They desperately want to buy a Model-X, and are desperately hoping for some changes that can make it happen.

Both camps want to buy a Model-X and both camps have valid opinions. However, one camp cannot tell the other that they are wrong or misguided. Both camps need each other because neither camp is big enough to sustain Tesla's market. If Camp B walks away, it's possible that Camp A won't be getting their Model-X, ever. Without Camp A, Tesla won't have the sales and time they need to make the changes that Camp B desires.

The BEV market is so small right now, the last thing we need to become divisive. Let's try to support each other.

JiveMiguel | 10 oktober 2015

... because the "future concept car", the "car of tomorrow" is on the road now - 100,000 have been sold, with more to come.

@Gert van Veen: it isn't only oil transport/refining/distribution jobs that are "threatened", it is also military budgets and spending on wars/"military operations". The United States has been fighting oil wars for most (all?) of the last 25 years. What happens to the budget for the United States Central Command if we reduce the need for - or importance of - imported petroleum?

They hate Elon and Tesla because the ultimate "rice bowl" is being shattered into a million pieces.

Ankit Mishra | 11 oktober 2015

@Red Sage
One of your best posts. I agree.

Ross1 | 11 oktober 2015

I have only been on about a month or so.....maybe I brought it with me.

One of the first posts I saw was Ankit trying to calm people down, I thought he/ she was a woman......

(now I don't know what to think.)

Ankit Mishra | 11 oktober 2015

Bro, what the hell? Bwahahahaha.
X launch has bought a wave of discontent people who have been pretty vocal. And it's their right to do so. I guess I will calm down in few days when X begins to earn accolades and shut critics down.

carlk | 11 oktober 2015

It already did. I scanned reports the day after the unviel where auto jounalists attented and got access of demo cars. Everyone described it as the great car it is. Not a single one I saw criticised anything of the car, not the FWD or even the second row seat. It's only when your garden variaty bashers started to roll in, and sadly they did pick up some complains from here, that we saw those negative articles.

Batman | 11 oktober 2015

Paid bashers that are working very hard to bash Tesla and the cars. This is typical when a company is heavily shorted. Generally hedge funds which shorted the stock would pay "Public Relations" companies, ask them to do something. The sum is usually in the millions. FBI is investigating a public relation company, which took money from Ackman. Ackman is shorting Herbalife. I think Ackman has spent somewhere near 100 million dollars to destroy Herbalife, so his $1B short position on HLF can win big.

I know at least one hedge fund shorted a lot of Tesla. I assume they paid a company to do the bashing. Some of the downgrades are not part of the hedge fund bashing. It's a separate game.

Jama | 11 oktober 2015

Its called cognitive dissonance disease.

Roamer@AZ USA | 11 oktober 2015

Same thing happened when the S rolled out. Give it time. Every little thing was a sky is falling world ending crisis. Yawn.

MyXinTx | 11 oktober 2015

So there is a difference between a hater/basher and a critiquer, especially from a personal perspective...

For example, I am an X res holder for over a year, jealous of all S owners, try to conceal my excitement for my X, even have a Tesla License plate holder on my Cayenne. I was hook, line, and sinker for my dream car...high tech, luxury, and despite being a retired physician the $100K+ cost is typically out of my league. I even bought lots of TSLA stock.

Then reality started to hit... SMS integration that falls behind Ford's and Jeep's ability, an enormous glass windshield that will be expensive to replace and may allow too much sun in the eyes, a reduced range even without the P upgrade, and the latest hit, inability to have what all other SUVs have...a flat cargo surface that even the S owners can enjoy. Why that hurts the most for me is cause my kids are gone, and my 3 "best friends", who are well trained to lay down while joining me on errands may not have a safe place to ride.

So I am not a hater or a basher, just disappointed that what was one promised or expected now may not exist, at least as far as we non-signature res holders know.

True, everybody has their own reasons, but for me, all that really matter are mine. For those that look forward to Tesla's new Sports Mini Bus Vehicle (SMBV), I am truly happy for them. Here is just a place to vent...

carlk | 11 oktober 2015

Yes you're a basher alright and a dumb one at that when you start to compare it to Ford or Jeep. You can do better than that can you?

Roamer@AZ USA | 11 oktober 2015

@ESSMD. What's SMS integration.

I know I recently did a software update on my daughters one year old, loaded to the max, Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I felt like Fred Flinsyone had designed the hack able system that needed a simple software update. My iPhone has a bigger display. The simple update was incredibly painful to install. I sure missed the simple and frequent Tesla updates that happen in my garage while I am sleeping. Jeep systems have the feel of using an old flip phone number pad to send text messages.

Roamer@AZ USA | 11 oktober 2015

My other daughter had to buy a Lexus GX 460 Luxury to meet her needs while waiting for the X. On her first road trip her conclusion was that the onboard Nav system was beyond crap and was completely useless. She uses her iPad now.

So not sure I buy how wonderful other car brands on board systems are.

With our Teslas we just say Navigate, say an address and an always up to date map routes us around traffic. The range assurance needs a little refinement but then does anyone else route you thru fuel stops...?

Tiebreaker | 12 oktober 2015

Fear of Change.

TonyInNH | 12 oktober 2015

I've been on this forum for a while and the only basher I see here, carlk, is you. People offer well thought out reasons for their dislike and even point out that their opinion shouldn't dissuade others from making a purchase, yet you continue to insult them. Your constant attacks on anyone who criticizes Telsa in any way, shape, or form only renders your own opinion extremely biased and incredulous.

carlk | 12 oktober 2015

Some of you are indeed bashing. I'm not even talking about the trolls who come here trying to ruin the reputation of Tesla but some of those people who for whatever reasons do not like certain features of the car or the price and are not getting the car. We all hear your reason and it's your individual decision no one has a problem with it.

Then there are some (I emphasis some) of those people got into the mentality of if I can't have it all you people should not enjoy the car too. They made such outrages claims like it't not as good as a Ford, it's just a minivan, the awesome door everyone likes would fail.. on and on. That's pure and simple bashing if you don't realize it.

If you come to a party and you don't like the food just don't eat it. Or say this is not my kind of food and don't eat it. But if you start to make awful comment of the food and trying to ruin everyone's appetite it's not just lack of common courtesy but also a very abhorrent behavior. You wouldn't know that of course.

Ankit Mishra | 12 oktober 2015

No one is bashing the discontent people. It's just that some of them are extraordinary vocal about their discontent. If only they are allowed to make comments in their threads it will create a gloomy environment in the forum. It will suck all the light out because their post count is very high and each post sucks out the happiness of X launch.
This forum is a place for discussion. If you see someone engaging someone in a discussion it doesn't mean that they are being bashed. (I am in no way suggesting that discontent people should change their behavior in any way. But I am expecting that they should be ready to have discussions)

NumberOne | 12 oktober 2015

@carlk +1

priustech | 12 oktober 2015

+2 carlk

oragne lovre | 12 oktober 2015

I wonder how many posters, who are rambling about their discontent with X and also claim as S owners, actually do own the S?

GLO | 12 oktober 2015

Carl's. +3

GLO | 12 oktober 2015

Orange lovre

You bring up a point. Also, I wonder if these individuals only bash Teslas or do they do this in other forums for cars such as BMW etc.?

AlMc | 12 oktober 2015

@orgne lovre; I have two model Ss. Blue P85+ and a Red P85D. Just want to make sure I qualify to give an opinion about the X as I held a Sig X (604) reservation for about 2.5 years.

@carlK and +1 people: I believe going to a party and not liking the food and not eating it is slightly different that putting down a deposit on a Sig X and canceling it because a feature, in my case the folding second row seat, that was advertised with the prototype and never indicated by any communication to Sig reservation holders had changed until the design studio opened.

In your food analogy it would be as if you had promised you were making a certain food with certain ingredients because you knew I liked it and then when I came I found out you had changed the ingredients and I was allergic to the ingredients. Thus, I decided not to eat it.

I am not a hater, not a basher, not asking you to change your reservation or your enjoyment of the X. I want this company to succeed as I am a stockholder as well.

This is an open forum and people can say anything they want. Just was hoping for better acceptance of opinions that don't agree with yours.

In addition, I am accept and am happy for those who anxiously are awaiting their X. Canceling mine has moved you that much closer to having your X produced.

My point in this and other threads is that the people here discussing their point(s) do not seem to be able to graciously accept that some people are canceling their orders because the X in its present form is not for them. Instead they try to change their minds, say they are haters or bashers.

AlMc | 12 oktober 2015

OP: The above was Not directed at you as I know you were talking about 'haters' being people who did not have a TM product being jealous of those who did.

The thread then took a turn down the rabbit hole. Sorry for my part in causing some of that turn.

Roamer@AZ USA | 12 oktober 2015

I choose to see the positive. How many car companies have customers upset because they don't yet make a car that works for them.

This whole situation is unique to Tesla. It is like I really want to own a Tesla and I am frustrated that they don't make a, truck, large SUV, sports car, cargo van and on and on.

The interesting thing to me is that few get excited when other companies don't sell exactly what they want. I know it's because other brands have a wide range of products and currently Tesla has only one in production with a second product going into production.

I am not surprised that Tesla has many customers that want a Tesla product and can't find one that works for them, among the two products Tesla offers.

Here is a great alternative at 1/4 the cost. It has even more than flat fold seats. Drive it until Tesla releases what works for you. Even has 5,000 lbs tow. Not real pretty, burns gas and doesn't have cool doors or a large display. But it is cheap and hauls lots of cargo.

Someday Tesla may have a product that meets your needs.

carlk | 12 oktober 2015

@AlMc I said over and over again imo you and @Tam are not haters or bashers although people who are did take adavange of your posts to do their bashing job. The dinner party analogy is not directed to you either since the most you were saying is it isn't your kind of food. @Roamer made the good point that Tesla is in an unique situation that it does not make variaty of models and there is no alternative when the car does not fit 100% of someone's need. No company can make one or two models that fit everyone's needs. We'll just have to find way to live with it if we do like the overall package of Tesle cars and there are many reasons to like it. I said in another thread I really wanted a two door sports car but I'm still very happy with my S. The gain much outweigh the little sarifice I have to make. | 12 oktober 2015

Tesla reminds me of a 1951 Alec Guiness movie: "The Man in the White Suit". It is the story of an inventor who upsets the apple cart by inventing a stain (and dye) proof material that enables the creation of clothing that lasts forever and never gets dirty. He eventually has to go into hiding because of the threat to incumbent industries that his breakthrough would destroy.

MyXinTx | 12 oktober 2015

Carlk...are you old enough to post on an adult forum? Do your parents know you are being mean and condescending to others?

Why don't you do what your supposed to do and express your opinions without criticizing those that you don't agree with.

Everybody has their opinions, and they don't have to be the same as yours.

Be careful, or your access to this forum may be eliminated, Big Brother Elon is watching...

MyXinTx | 12 oktober 2015

SMS integration - the ability to have text messages viewed onscreen, possibly read aloud, and the ability to respond, either by verbal composition or selecting from a template of pre-designed messages.

Hopefully this will be a feature on a future update as it is a real driver safety feature.

As stated, several other low tech car manufacturers already have this in some form or another.

rossRallen | 12 oktober 2015

I woke up this morning dreaming of how lovely to will be driving in my Sig X. In 6-8 weeks I'll know.

My ONLY concern is how my music, digitally down-sampled for my iPhone, will sound on a $2,500 sound system. Why can't the Sig X have an 8-track player?

Roamer@AZ USA | 12 oktober 2015

@waitN4myX, Thanks for the clarification. The last thing I want is text messages while I am driving no matter how they are delivered. But then thats the world we live in. Maybe we need a selfie button and link to Facebook so we can tell our friends we are driving because for sure they want to know.

Just being obnoxious. I suppose with a don't be stupid setting and auto pilot, reading or listening to texts will someday not kill people.

I had to laugh at that post praising Jeep. I recently installed the update from hell on a Jeep vehicle using the Jeeps iPhone sized screen and Fred Flintstone software provided by five different vendors that don't talk to each other. Tesla has spoiled me with updates installed while I sleep and all systems integrated in one interface.

AlMc | 12 oktober 2015

@rossRallen: I am happy for you that you will get your SigX soon.

I am old enough to remember 8 track and cassette players. If they can integrate one into a folding second seat option I would pay for that upgrade to the audio system.

carlk | 12 oktober 2015

@WaitN4myX Where were you before? You suddenly pop up from nowhere just to throw that jab at me? Did we ever have a conversation before? Or you just want to answer that question for ESSMD? How could you be so nice or you just forget to log off to use the correct identity? Pretty pathatic those trolls.

Oh yea WaitN4myX a nice handle like it would be so convincing.

vandacca | 12 oktober 2015

@carlk wrote:
Yes you're a basher alright and a dumb one at that when you start to compare it to Ford or Jeep. You can do better than that can you?

Those words above started the inflammatory words between you and a number of members on this forum. Step away from the keyboard, take a deep breath, and calm down.

@carlk, @Roamer and followers, I'm sure you guys are great people. But this type of exchange makes you sound insecure and uncertain about your choice in vehicles.

@Roamer wrote:
I choose to see the positive. How many car companies have customers upset because they don't yet make a car that works for them.

I'm super glad that the Model-X works for you, right from day one. Without people like you buying the Model-X, Tesla would be in trouble. As long as there are enough people like you, I'm confident that Tesla will "finish" their work on the Model-X and get it to the point where it will also work for a larger group of people.

Here is the rub, 3+ years ago, Tesla gave the world an idea of what a Tesla SUV would look like and what it would have. Nobody expected it to be exactly the same as the prototype, but they expected that key talking points would be passed down. That didn't happen (yet), so you have to be understanding to those people who were disappointed.

It's still a great vehicle is every other way (BEV, range, non-polluting, acceleration, low maintenance, beautiful, aerodynamic, etc.) and that's what makes it so hard for people. Everybody is lusting over this car, especially those that have to cancel their reservations. Wouldn't you be upset if reasoning dictated that you shouldn't buy something you really wanted?

Lets let this thread die. Please.

MyXinTx | 12 oktober 2015

@Carlk I've had my eye on you, and once again you are not being very nice, as noted by several others as well.
Not that I have anything to prove to a bottom-dweller like yourself, but I hold the not-so-low Model X Res Number of 16,5XX. You sure are a negative influence on this thread, I almost look for your posts for the drama, and no real contribution, Pitiful.

For the rest, I have enjoyed the contribution.

I am still trying to figure out why my Tesla stock has plummeted in value, I hope it has noting to do the recent surprises that have been announced.

carlk | 12 oktober 2015

@WaitN4myX I've never asked you if you have an X reservation or you're a Tesla stock long or short. Thank you for volunteer the info now I'm convinced that you did not register the new account just to troll here. Good for you!

No I've never been very nice to, and I don't have to be nice to, people who are not here to share the joy and experience of owning a Tesla car but to inflict apprehension of the car for whatever purposes.

@vandacca I'm absolutely secure and certain of my choice of the car, you should know that if you read my posts, but I hate to see others who are less certain become apprehensive and missed the chance of owning a great car because so many negative misinformation, some real and many not, are being spreaded here.

johnse | 13 oktober 2015

Re SMS: Just use a Windows phone. Cortana reads your SMS messages aloud and takes dictation to respond. You can even set up a phone contact for Cortana (she has here own phone number) and you can "call" her to allow you to initiate SMS messages instead of only replying.

The car doesn't need to do all the work. In fact, it is probably best if it doesn't. What we need is good open standards for controlling the features of connected devices rather than forcing the infotainment system to have to re-implement all of the different functionalities.

Ankit Mishra | 13 oktober 2015

Windows phone? Are they still making them?

vandacca | 13 oktober 2015

@carlk, I truly hope that you are secure and confident with your purchase, since it's a very expensive vehicle. If you are secure and confident, then any negative posts should have no effect on your happiness. Jumping on any person who posts anything mildly negative conveys the image that you are highly sensitive to bad press and hence insecure about something.

Furthermore, this is a Tesla Model-X forum, not a Tesla Model-X Fanboy Forum. People are free to discuss both positive and negative issues. You don't see Tesla removing negative posts here, do you?

Finally, when anyone is buying a vehicle, it's best that they know any limitations up front to avoid a huge disappointment after delivery. A disappointed customer is worse than a failed sale. This forum can be used to determine if a Model-X is right for them. It's not right for everyone.