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Model 3 Service manuals?

Model 3 Service manuals?

So I've been trying to track down a copy of the Model 3 Service Manual(s)

There's a link at https://service.teslamotors.com that suggests that we can access the material on a subscription basis.

But... When I go to purchase a subscription, the only locale available is Massachusetts

I have a vague recollection that Massachusetts has a "right to repair" law or something like that, which mandates that customers have access to service and technical manuals. And - It seems that Tesla is enforcing that by limiting access to the manuals to customers in MA...

So..... How do those of us in other areas get hold of the books? Has anyone here been able to access/download them?

I'd happily pay Tesla the subscription fee for access, or pay to copy/bind a set if someone else has them. It just seems that Tesla is making this more difficult than it should be.

Maybe we'll have to wait for Chilton to publish a set?

EVRider | 28 juni 2018

Why do you want them?

ravisundaramam | 28 juni 2018

There is only one page in the service manual:

"There are no user serviceable parts inside."

eeb9 | 28 juni 2018

I like to know how my cars function. Suspension, brakes, specs, tolerances. What can be adjusted and what should never be touched except by .

Nuts and bolts stuff. What things can I fix vs having to rely on Tesla Service?

I really don't like flying blind.

I've maintained a full set of shop manuals for every car I've owned. I feel like I'm half-blind without them for the Model 3.

eeb9 | 28 juni 2018

@Ravis - demonstrably not true.

If I lived in Boston, I could pay $100 and have full access to the data (24-hour subscription)

eeb9 | 28 juni 2018

There are already people putting Model 3s on the track - they have to have some access to factory specs and info in order to do so safely.

The information is available - just a matter of how us poor unwashed peasants can get our grubby paws on it as well

ravisundaramam | 28 juni 2018

I was just joking. I am sure there will be a Chilton out. The Jiffy Lubes, Larry, Curly and Moe are the ones who are going to fix the brakes and align the wheels and rotate the tires. They need info, as well as the body shops.

eeb9 | 28 juni 2018

:-)

rtanov | 28 juni 2018

I would also very much like to have these. Being a DIY guy and coming from a number of BMW's which I have mostly serviced myself I very much appreciated that parts and service manuals/repair procedures were readily available. I am bothered that these are not available for the Model 3, and hope this will change in the future.

CharleyBC | 28 juni 2018

I was wondering about shop manuals last night too. I've often bought them for cars I've owned, usually at a pretty steep price. I'd like a service manual for our Model 3, if possible. I have no intention of attacking the high voltage stuff or anything "scary". But It's good to know the correct steps to, say, open up a door to fix a window.

katole | 29 juni 2018

ditto to everything ... I am very much a do it myselfer, and I own FSMs for all 8 of my vehicles .... I NEVER take my cars, trucks, or motorcycles to the dealer (too many bad experiences of poor or negligent repairs) ... it is much bettter for me to do it all myself, except for the really big stuff which I would rather pay someone else to do (my time is valuable to me) ....
Please, someone find out how we can get Tesla to provide us with this information, or, find someone in Massachusetts who has an M3 that will print to pdf the manual for us.

eeb9 | 29 juni 2018

I finally at least have a phone number to context after more than a bit of runaround

I’ll let y’all know what I find out when I call

ReD eXiLe ms us | 29 juni 2018

OK. I'll try this again. Probably won't work. Here goes...

You have been duped.

For decades traditional automobile manufacturers have fooled you.

They have designed vehicles based upon ICE technology, not because it was the best possible, but because they could make the most money off of it.

They make claims of durability, reggedness, craftsmanship, and engineering excellence. All lies. Because no matter how expensive or renowned they may be, every ICE vehicle is designed using the same flawed principles.

Even modern ICE cars are designed from the outset to fall apart. The constant friction between moving parts and caustic fumes expelled while burning fuel and eradicating lubricants all ensure it. Because ICE vehicles are naught more than rolling spare parts conveyances.

No matter how often you repair them, no matter how well you maintain them, no matter how lovingly you remove and replace their parts, they will always beg for more. More oil. More fuel. More spark plugs. More chains. More belts. More gaskets. More pumps. More filters. More coolant. Many of them all at once. And all of them for more... MONEY.

You can see it if you look around. It is very clear if you look around Los Angeles. Commerce. All over. And so much of it based upon the support of the car.

Further, just because you take them apart and put them back together just so... Doesn't mean they'll actually work. You can spend hours searching, seeking, investigating, cleaning, lubing, fussing, and fighting... and it just won't do anything.

Then, the next day it starts. You forget the hardships. You pat yourself on the back for a job well done. You thank the gods above for your victory. At least until it stops running again. Then you damn them all.

Y'know, what? It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to spend your Saturdays under a car, flat on your back, wrenching. Sure, for some it is 'fun' to eek out that last iota of performance from a machine that is all their own through trial, error, and experimentation.

Joyful to learn by rote and muscle memory the precise amount of torque to apply to each and every nut and bolt in the chassis or under the hood. Cheerful to know your own vehicle like no one else does and to know you can make it sing unlike anyone else. Enjoyable to master a machine using your own personal brand of alchemy and magic never to be understood by anyone else.

It is all a fantasy though. Ford. GM. Chrysler/Dodge. They all know this. AC·Delco, Mopar, and Motorcraft know too. They know you are chasing a fantasy. A fantasy that is encouraged by the likes of TRD, Mugen, HKS, and dozens of others too. A fantasy that allows you to believe in your heart of hearts that you 'know better' than all of the OEM's engineers exactly how your car should be set up, tuned, and run. A fantasy that allows you to convince yourself to buy special components that cost more money but allow you to burn more fuel sooner and without restrictions put on you by The MAN while voiding your warranty and no one can tell you that you can't... because you spent your own money to get the car and you have the RIGHT to do whatever you want to it.

Right?

Hey. How's this for an idea, eh? The Model 3 was only just released, shy of a year ago. Why not give it a few years, to reach a few hundred thousand people or so, to demonstrate its actual popularity, and allow that user base to grow? So that it is noticed by everyone from Sears to Walmart auto service departments, who then go on to contact Tesla about training for their staff? So that the guys at Pep·Boys and Midas also learn their way around the cars. So that Tesla finally wins the right to legally sell direct throughout the U.S. and set up their own Service Centers... everywhere. So that Chilton & Haynes will decide there is a broad enough user base to support Tesla cars in their repair manuals. So that you have the experience of learning your current fears and antagonistic positions are salved and soothed. So that you realize that you don't actually miss busting knuckles or getting oily sweat in your eyes. So that if you feel nostalgic you spend some time on the weekends converting an old Pontiac, Chevy, Ford, or Volkswagen gas guzzler to fully electric instead.

Why not try a little patience, eh?

billstanton | 29 juni 2018

My Prius has been VERY dependable and the MOST dependable part is the electric motor. It just runs and runs. And that is the only thing in the Tesla! Kind of. Anyway, I've been in your boat eeb9 but you know how many "Chilton" manuals I have that I have never looked at it afterwards? I think all of them except my 1953 Plymouth Cranbrook. Personally I'm busy reading the Owner's Manual I found online!

eeb9 | 5 juli 2018

@ReD - I *like* tuning my cars.

And no, the factory doesn't always get it right.

Correction - they do actually get it right, but only for a given set of assumptions. They set up the car based on a set of informed guesses about how the car will be driven. Fair enough - and the factory tuning for that set of assumptions is dead-on.

Those assumptions don't always hold though.

Great for cruising, less so for more spirited driving. I'll happily trade some efficiency for better handling. Acceleration? Meh - it's good enough as-is - I don't need to change a thing there.

Handling can almost always be improved over factory settings though. Especially with the Model 3. It handles well out of the gate, but not as well as it *could*, since they wanted to make it comfortable and accessible to people coming from Accords and Camrys and Malibus. Even my beloved MINs could be tweaked to accommodate different use-cases - and were designed to facilitate exactly that.

So while I generally agree with you, in this case i think you're only about 70% right.

Factory brakes, tires, wheels and springs are designed for a very different type of driving than what I prefer.

Soooo... I'm making some measured changes. Sticky tires, lighter rims, slightly tighter springs and brake pads with higher temp ratings. Nothing radical - this isn't a dedicated track setup. I may at some point upgrade the brake rotors to improve cooling. There's a nice set already released for the 3 - but they require 19" rims, and I prefer to stay at 18". So I'll wait on those.

To do this intelligently means having access to some basic info - stuff that *should* be easily accessible, but isn't.

Factory brake operating temps, front/rear toe and camber settings... Simple stuff.

Before I change something, I like to know how to change it *back* if I need to - kinda hard without the basic data.

I did hear back from customer service, and they confirmed that (outside of Tesla-approved shops) only MA residents have access to this info. Because MA was smart enough to enact a right-to-repair law... They did say that local service centers are providing this info to customers on a call-by-call basis, so I'll take that approach.

I'll keep y'all appraised

TeslaTap.com | 5 juli 2018

@ReD - Best read of the day (and @eeb9 - you make sense too!).

I expect the main reason Tesla doesn't make easy access to the service manual is the concern someone who know nothing about electricity, will go and get themselves electrocuted. The HV system carries lethal voltage/current levels, unlike any ICE car. These areas are well protected, but if you disassemble enough of the car without knowing what you're doing - it could be game over.

That said, I'm a heavy DIY kind of guy, with a lot of Tesla modifications under my belt. I'm confident about what I can (and cannot) do, but I expect I may be a outlier. Yes, I'd like to access service manuals too, even though my car is in warranty, but that's the hand we've been dealt for now. Perhaps when Tesla gets larger there could be two levels of manuals, one for us DIY types, that doesn't deal with main battery replacements and other HV related areas. Of course, I am envious of our fellow Massachusetts owners!

eeb9 | 6 juli 2018

Intreresting take on "Right to Repair"

http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/kfzbCAeCitDexehqCieuwABWcNLQIe?format=multi...

"Consumers increasingly are rejecting the idea that products should be difficult or impossible to repair, and they are hacking equipment or turning to the grey market and third-party providers, along with seeking right-to-repair legislation, writes Syncron Chief Marketing Officer Gary Brooks"

smogne41 | 6 juli 2018

The tight grip that Tesla keeps over service (DIY or otherwise) is the single biggest thing I hate about the company (which I am otherwise a big fan of). They are not unique in this unfortunately (look up John Deere). I don't buy the 'patience' argument. They have had years to open up Model S manuals and software tools and have chosen not to.

I can understand the argument that the company was young and wanted to avoid bad press from inexperienced people killing themselves messing with the HV systems. At some point that argument is no longer adequate though, EV's are getting mainstream now. Once I have a Tesla out of warranty, I do expect to do most of my own work on it. Either with service manuals and software tools that Tesla gives me, or through helpful 'other sources'.

In the mean time, support robust 'Right to Repair' legislation; it's good for the environment, good for the consumer, and essential for producing the next generation of engineers and scientists (many of us get our start with tinkering when young).

Red Sage ca us | 6 juli 2018

eeb9: Excellent response! You hit pretty much all the points I expected you might. I have argued myself out over this though. I don't have much of anything else to add. I just put my perspective out there, on the line, for anyone to consider. Just as you have. Thank you for the discussion.

TeslaTap: Thank you! I know of your own hands on work with the Model S, and I'm glad you understand my points. I was hoping to illustrate my own understanding of the hard work, determination, and skill that goes into working on things yourself. I grew up on a working farm, so we fixed all sorts of things ourselves, largely out of necessity. So I get it. Also, I like building computers myself, choosing the components, installing them, tweaking them to fit my needs when it comes to hardware and software. So that in the end I have something that is unique. I have gotten skinned knuckles and sweat in my eyes as a result, but didn't have to deal with much in the way of grease, grit, and grime along the way. I do think it is going to be awesome when a new generation of mechanics come through high school shop classes, trade schools, and community colleges learning about electric cars from stem-to-stern. I hope those students are exposed to people who are as adept with electric drive systems as Webcrawler (Jeff Southern) and Jack Rickard are, so that they learn to respect electricity even as they explore it and work to master its use as they have. That should allow for a growing enthusiasm that leads to responsible tinkering, amazing engineering, and truly awesome results on the road and at the track.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Webcrawler45

https://www.youtube.com/user/marionrickard/videos

smogne41: When someone uses the phrase 'tight grip' when referring to Tesla, it seems as if they are alluding to a 'monopoly' or even 'monopolistic practices'. I don't see them that way at all. I generally relate their actions to those of The Little Red Hen instead. Try to get as much help as you can, but when you can't, do it yourself. When you are done, enjoy the fruit of your own hard labor. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Tesla has no 'monopoly' at all. They design their own products, make their own products, sell their own products, and service their own products. That is no different from a watchmaker, or clock-maker, that designs, builds, sells, and maintains their own wares. You don't have to buy their clocks or watches. Some from other manufacturers may cost less, or cost a bunch more, it is up to each company to satisfy their own Customers as they see fit. No one has to buy a Tesla, and anyone that protests their current Service parameters can go to another automobile manufacturer that offers the Service terms they prefer. Anything you find to be 'unacceptable' should not be accepted... by you. If someone else finds Tesla's terms agreeable, they should be allowed to accept them.

Legally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a company holding 'Monopoly Power' at all. The government seems to in general prefer monopolies in business, as it makes getting purchase orders and contracts that much easier. It is the improper use of monopoly power that gets companies in trouble. There are all sorts of ANALysts predicting that Tesla will go out of business, run out of money, go under, 'any day now'... Just as they have done for the past decade. The monopolies of lore were not considered to be liable to go out of business 'any day now' by anyone by the time it was presumed they were monopolies.

Tesla in fact is STILL 'young'. They only just Delivered over 100,000 vehicles in a single calendar year in 2017. The other traditional automobile manufacturers that remain in the U.S. passed that mark decades ago, and so did the vast majority of Foreign manufacturers. Every quarter they publish a lengthy document as part of their SEC filings that meticulously outlines what they perceive as potential 'RISK FACTORS' for the company. Tesla takes these points very seriously, even though this may seem like a bunch of standard issue CYA language...

UNITED STATES
SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
Washington, D.C. 20549
FORM 10-Q
(Mark One)
☒ QUARTERLY REPORT PURSUANT TO SECTION 13 OR 15(d) OF THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF
1934
For the quarterly period ended March 31, 2018
...
PART II. OTHER INFORMATION
Item 1A. Risk Factors (page 49)
You should carefully consider the risks described below together with the other information set forth in this report, which could materially af ect our business, financial condition and future results. The risks described below are not the only risks facing our company. Risks and uncertainties not currently known to us or that we currently deem to be immaterial also may materially adversely af ect our business, financial condition and operating results.
...
We may become subject to product liability claims, which could harm our financial condition and liquidity if we are not able to successfully defend or insure against such claims.

Although we design our vehicles to be the safest vehicles on the road, product liability claims could harm our business, prospects, operating results and financial condition. The automobile industry in particular experiences significant product liability claims and we face inherent risk of exposure to claims in the event our vehicles do not perform as expected. As is true for other automakers, our cars have been involved and we expect in the future will be involved in crashes resulting in death or personal injury, and such crashes where Autopilot is engaged are the subject of significant public attention. We have experienced and we expect to continue to face claims related to misuse or failures of new technologies that we are pioneering, including Autopilot in our vehicles. Moreover, as our solar energy systems and energy storage products generate and store electricity, they have the potential to cause injury to people or property. A successful product liability claim against us could require us to pay a substantial monetary award. Our risks in this area are particularly pronounced given the relatively limited number of vehicles and energy storage products delivered to date and limited field experience of our products. Moreover, a product liability claim could generate substantial negative publicity about our products and business and could have material adverse effect on our brand, business, prospects and operating results. In most jurisdictions, we generally self-insure against the risk of product liability claims for vehicle exposure, meaning that any product liability claims will likely have to be paid from company funds, not by insurance.
...
Any unauthorized control or manipulation of our products’ systems could result in loss of confidence in us and our products and harm our business.

Our products contain complex information technology systems. For example, our vehicles and energy storage products are designed with built-in data connectivity to accept and install periodic remote updates from us to improve or update their functionality. We have designed, implemented and tested security measures intended to prevent unauthorized access to our information technology networks, our products and their systems. However, hackers have reportedly attempted, and may attempt in the future, to gain unauthorized access to modify, alter and use such networks, products and systems to gain control of, or to change, our products’ functionality, user interface and performance characteristics, or to gain access to data stored in or generated by our products. We encourage reporting of potential vulnerabilities in the security of our products via our security vulnerability reporting policy, and we aim to remedy any reported and verified vulnerability. Accordingly, we have received reports of potential vulnerabilities in the past and have attempted to remedy them. However, there can be no assurance that vulnerabilities will not be exploited in the future before they can be identified, or that our remediation efforts are or will be successful.

Any unauthorized access to or control of our products or their systems or any loss of data could result in legal claims or proceedings. In addition, regardless of their veracity, reports of unauthorized access to our products, their systems or data, as well as other factors that may result in the perception that our products, their systems or data are capable of being “hacked,” could negatively affect our brand and harm our business, prospects, financial condition and operating results. We have been the subject of such reports in the past.

http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/4a522a09-6db4-4503-aca2-bb18f87f6289

stevea137 | 6 juli 2018

The last time I tried getting access to technical docs from tesla's site, I don't think I could even do it as an end user in MA (just go to their site, start entering junk data as an end user and you can't get very far). It would only let me continue as a business.

Like others, I was hoping for information for post-warranty repairs (away from HV stuff) such as replacing door actuators, etc. At one point Tesla committed to opening more of their technical documents up for right-to-repair reasons, supposedly in 2018, but I haven't heard anything more on the subject since.

abalsone | 27 september 2018

Don’t bother with this. I signed up for the 24-hr subscription. Got an email with the activation link that said my 24 hours would start when I clicked on it and logged in. Tried the activation link the next day and it was basing my 24 hours off of when I made the purchase rather than when I clicked the activation link. I had about 3 hours left in my subscription which would have pissed me off except that the Model 3 manuals weren’t even available so I had nothing to look at anyways. The only available manuals were for the Model X and S. Tried to contact Tesla about both the 24 hour timer issue and the no Model 3 manuals issue and they have been ignoring me for the last month. Finally just gave up and disputed it with my CC company.

allweathermaint | 27 september 2018

As a aircraft maintainer I can say the manuals I use are under constant revision. That is for a product that is "Type Certified" essentially unchanged except for minor differences. I can't imagine what a comprehensive hard copy Tesla manual would look like with all the innovation they do. They could do a "Field" service Manual that offers the basic remove and replace stuff along with fluids, tires, brakes, torque values ect.It would be nice to get into the diagnostic screens too, if nothing else but to be guided by a Tesla Tech over the phone to determine a course of action.
Another idea would be VIN number specific manuals. I imagine these would be electronic as they collect a lot of data during the build that may be of use in maintenance.

jdcollins5 | 9 februari 2019

I went online this week with a 1 hour subscription to check it out. The Service Manual and the Electrical Diagrams were there. The Service Manual was really good with step-by-step instructions along with good pictures showing locations on the car and detail pictures of the components being serviced. It allows you to print out 1 page at a time.

gatos77 | 15 september 2019

WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND DEMAND THE SERVICE MANUAL AND THE SCHEMATICS. WE PAID THE MONEY TO OWN THE CAR AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT IT. WE MAY NEED TO GET SOME CONSUMER ADVOCATE GROUPS INVOLVED. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Xerogas | 15 september 2019

@gatos77: "WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND DEMAND THE SERVICE MANUAL AND THE SCHEMATICS?"
------
I think walking into a quiet room and yelling at the people who are chatting calmly is rude.

kaffine | 15 september 2019

Just lie and say you are in MA?

Be ready to do screen grabs or print out for what you want and get a 1 day subscription to the manual. I wish they offered an option to just buy it vs a subscription.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 15 september 2019

gatos77: A few suggestions...?

● You might try contacting Chilton or Haynes, noting that the Tesla Model 3 was the fifth best selling passenger car in the U.S. in 2018, and that it is within the top 10 so far this year.

● You can point out how Tesla currently only provides maintenance data to residents of a single State in the Union and that leaves owners in 49 other States high and dry.

● You can also contact some Consumer Advocacy groups to express your concerns and to perhaps l earn their support so convincing Chilton and Haynes this is a worthwhile pursuit.

Above all, remember that 'DIY' stands for 'DO IT YOURSELF'.

That said, a claimed 'Right to Repair' does not correspond to a 'Right to Make Unreasonable Demands' of a manufacturer. Nor does it grant a right to steal Intellectual Property or disable/eliminate/ignore safety protocols.

Let's be honest. Most of those demanding a 'Right to Repair' actually want a 'Right to Customize and Modify'. The right to kill themselves doing something stupid then have their Family sue the hell out of Tesla on their behalf and in posterity.

Some companies undoubtedly want to purchase bare drivetrains from Tesla to build all manner of custom vehicles for niché markets. Delivery vans, tool trucks, dump trucks, tow trucks, stretched limousines, recreational vehicles, buses, offroad vehicles, dragsters, etc. No. Tesla will eventually build a variety of 'Heavy Vehicles' themselves. And they'll do it to their own standards of economy, efficiency, style, and safety. Just because Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge have sold 'bare chassis' to third party coach builders for the past century doesn't mean Tesla must follow suit.

And, as noted by Xerogas above, using Caps Lock for the entirety of a post is poor etiquette online, tantamount to shouting at people.

skegar | 15 september 2019

I'm in CA, and I remember the MA-only thing from about a year ago... but a few weeks back, I went to the service website and all 50 states were there. So I entered "United States", "California", "General Access (Personal), then requested access for 1 hour ($31.88) so I could just see what was there...

I was ecstatic! Seems like everything was there! I downloaded schematics, then printed almost every section of the service manual that I might be interested in (skipped the sections on the drive motors since I don't intend to be taking those apart).

The best part was that they didn't kick me off after my one hour was up... but once I finally logged out, I wasn't able to get back in (as expected).

At only $31.88, that's by far the least expensive official service manual that I've ever purchased.

Just curious, for you guys that can't get to it... are you in different states?